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About tanglebones

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    Junior Member
  • Birthday 01/25/1971
  1. Rorrek: As it was stated in what you've quoted, it had to do with no OOC communication at all with the participating guilds. And those forces I've mentioned and you've defined in your post still affect people, those who are inexperienced and shy, and even jades the experienced. This whole dissertation is to provide everyone the knowledge that they can say no, when prior to this it wasn't mentioned, ever, as far as I know. However, I have never said everyone has to stop roleplaying mature themes. That wasn't and will not ever be the point. What was asked and I think you've overlooked is the request to be aware that there are people who are not going to be comfortable with a plot idea, and that they should be given the courtesy to consent or not. That's it. With that last word, I'm done. Goodnight, folks.
  2. Mackenzie: Skylah mentioned that offense was taken with the end of the phrase, "someone getting their rocks off." That's what I'm apologizing about. It was an assumption I was very wrong in making, and I have no qualms about admitting when I'm wrong. Now, the whole torture scenario had snowballed from when the kidnapping happened from the Cup and Blade Caravan to the present plot point. It was found out later that it was a plot arc brought forth by Skylah to interject an intertwined story arc affecting many guilds on both sides. The way the plot unfolded wasn't brought forward to the roleplaying representatives of the guilds that made up the Coalition in order to be discussed. It was a spur of the moment idea that had repercussions affecting those who privately objected; just because they felt obligated in not breaking the flow of the story does not mean they liked it or wanted to participate in it. In roleplaying, a hierarchy of some sort still forces obligations that people intrinsically follow, and if an roleplaying leader says "we're going this way!" despite the objections of others people are still going to go with it. That's the basis for involving consent for that kind of roleplay, Mackenzie. EA has an inguild story involving Twilight Cultists, and there were some parts prior to Skylah's kidnap / torture that were brought up where there was torture of a captured Twilight spy. This happened after a seriously profound scene where children of a town in Arathi were kidnapped and sacrificed to the Old Gods to power a dark ritual. The manner of that scenario was pretty extreme, but not to the point of where it was getting personally graphic. It was after some fresh roleplayers who were invited to join in on the plot did it go from just a run of the mill Lovecraftian horror story to rewriting the Marquis De Sade's handbook. That... was a pretty shocking mess. I won't go into details, but it was pretty gruesome. The thing is, people went along with that despite the way it was presented due to how the story went. That particular scenario was hashed out amongst the members of EA afterwards and will not be so public again. However, that session opened the door for the current intertwined plotline and to see it pervert the focus of everyone's enjoyment, something had to be said. The reason for EA's involvement has to do with the premise for that organization- to protect others who need protecting, to avenge those for justice, even if it's scofflaw vigilantism. That is the kind of pull that has an obligation on those who roleplay under this guild's name to participate in a variety of story arcs, including the current one. However, there are people who don't like to be "ambushed" into an extreme situation where they or someone they know IC is getting raped (or tortured or molested) right before their eyes (or even OOC, the effect of horror is the same) and then they have to roleplay it out despite how they feel personally on the subject just so others who're watching also catch the experience. That's not something people want to be triggered on (to borrow an SJW phrase). It's not just some of the members of EA who feel this way; there are others who have responded to this post in a loud voice too, members of both Alliance and Horde guilds. That's not fair to the person who hasn't consented to that kind of RP, Mackenzie. Because you like to see how people respond in character to situations, I feel you should at least let them know ahead of time about what's planned and let them agree or not agree to roleplay it out. If they're okay with that, then there shouldn't be a problem. I understand it's to reflect some really horrible things that happen in the real world that some people find fascinating and want to recreate that intensity. But to just arbitrarily dump it on those without warning chases away the inexperienced roleplayers who have no clue in how to handle that and the experienced roleplayer who gets disgusted over it and quits the plot entirely, shrinking the amount of involvement for all. The objections didn't really occur until it looked like poor Skylah was going to get quartered by whatever ideas the participating players who captured the priest came up with to do it. By then it was already too late to stop the arc from working out its course. However, based on what happened it needs to be said that for future plots people or guilds who don't want to be part of should have the "roleplaying space" to come up with an IC reason to not be in it. I hope this clarifies my position on the matter. Please all, consider keeping the RP at Action Movie ratings of PG 13 / some R; if / when possible keep the NC 17 / XXX in private or a private scene and be courteous about asking if it's okay. That's all I can ask of the community. Thanks again for reading my wall o' text.
  3. Thank you all for the replies. I have to say that I'm just as guilty in participating with this scenario. While the last few statements were the "finger" pointing at those who had their parts in this, I had three "fingers" pointing back at me based on my own part in the torture scenes. I am sorry that I had given my own spin on it, and I am sorry that I have singled out people (wasn't naming names, but it was figured out anyway) and made you feel angry and frustrated with me about my barb. Please forgive me. As for those who had felt remorse, it's okay. We're a roleplaying community, we've got big people britches on. There's nothing to be sorry for. Nikaa, you do make a good point with the assessment of my last few sentences. I was angry and frustrated with the entire situation. However, I also invited the flame so that can be discussed about properly, which you have kindly provided. I do know and understand that many horrific and terrible things happen in times of strife and war, like battlefield rapes, torturing prisoners for information or for sadistic tendencies, murder for various reasons, and predations of the old, weak and the young. I understand that there are players who don't mind roleplaying the event of such things and then play out the aftershocks of that event. Thing is, if I want to read up and vicariously go through the same awful event and experience the feelings that result from that, I'd open a history book or read Wikipedia (despite how off base it is) or watch the various documentaries, movies, or TV shows that show that kind of brutality. It's there, it's available for free or cheap, and it's abundant. Now, the subsequent posts after yours, though profound and thoughtful, missed one aspect of my request in the OP: I was asking to keep it PG 13 to R, and to avoid NC17 to XXX if at all possible for main story arc plots. I'm not saying that people shouldn't just stop their way of roleplaying. That's too much for me to ask and it does come off as arrogant. I am sorry, but I can't think of any other way to word my request. Take that as you will. With consent, I was frustrated more with Skylah's idea not being put up to the Coalition vote for a multi-Alliance plotline. The reason why EA and a couple of other guilds (with varied levels of participation) were pulled into it had to do with the creed and ideal of these guilds- to help the weak and defenseless. That roleplaying impetus is what got us drawn in, and all of a sudden we're all mired in the muck. I was hearing the disappointment and dismay in peoples' voices in Teamspeak over participating, but due to how prior profiles have been set up as guidelines for some players it locked EA into a commitment that was getting pretty dark. Watching that descent, so to speak, led me to think that this was a set up for just one person to enjoy. That made me feel anger, and I had to speak out. Skylah, I did assume it was just for your enjoyment and I'm sorry I offended you with that assumption. But the way the Alliance guilds were pulled in without a prior agreement to pursue that plot, transplanting the Twilight Cultists angle into a standoff to rescue a tortured Alliance prisoner who could only be found by performing torture on a captured Horde member came across as shady. However, what's done is done. I'm letting the resentment that I felt go and it can be worked out to a satisfying conclusion based on what has already happened. I know that there will be storylines where abductions with possible rape may happen, and I do know torture scenes will continue. Though I'm not okay with it, if it's shown that it's an important part of plot movement please stay aware and let others consent first. A lot of people don't want to be confronted with such things, especially after what's recently been happening in real life. Please don't let the idea of "we don't know where the direction of the story will go" be a catch all excuse to not let people choose or not choose to participate. Thanks all for reading and discussing this topic.
  4. Hello, everyone. This is a somewhat difficult subject for me, and I believe there are others who may have similar feelings and regard in the mix of extremely mature roleplaying scenes and the knowledge of consent. There is an ongoing roleplay scenario where, though the originator of the idea was okay with his alts being tortured, a good portion of those who are involved are not okay with the mature theme that represents. Of course, there are detractors who read this and will say to themselves, "Why is this even a problem? If they don't like it, they should have the balls to walk out on it." That line of thinking is not an accurate snap assessment. Those who have participated in some of these scenes involving the torture scenario did so out of a sense of obligation, not from actual consent. The scenario comes from an idea that had stemmed from Eternal Aegis and Jade Lion attacking Vol'mar on an RP patrol night. There was a outcry for retaliation, and a player came up with an idea of having an Alliance toon captured and tortured. This player also had volunteered another alt for more torture based upon a prior story involving Twilight Cultists and their machinations. Both of these alts were intended, without discussing this with the whole of the Coalition, to draw the Alliance RP guilds together for roleplaying in intertwined stories. The intertwined stories are a good idea but the method used for promotion and how this has involved parties, who by their definitions of honor and commitment, are put into a position that has gotten progressively darker and darker. The scenes that have been created for these purposes pervert the focus of the roleplay, which is to provide the enjoyment of all with combined storytelling. This all has to do with consent. Though people have participated in the prior scenes it was only due to a sense of obligation to the roleplay- to state out otherwise would ruin the scene and break the immersion. Roleplayers have faced this time and time again. You all shouldn't have to have these scenarios hoisted into your roleplay without your consent. Though the person who wants it done may consent since he or she are presenting it, any of you shouldn't have to feel obligated to join in. The scenes of molestation, rape and torture (of all kinds) are mature themes that shouldn't be foisted upon others who aren't into that kind of roleplay. Keep it Action Movie PG 13 / dip some into R, but keep the NC17 and XXX out if people haven't talked about participating in that scenario. Dumping / tricking others into an extremely mature scenario is not cool at all, and if the intention is to induce more roleplay involving such things then keep it to private and not have it affect the major plot / story. To do otherwise will not only ruin the story, it'll have the opposite effect and chase away the roleplayers from getting involved in any plotline whatsoever. No more tricking others into a sick and perverted scene that gets someone's rocks off at everyone else's expense. Let the flames begin.