RowlandEx

Xenophobic Behavior and Discrimination on The Netherholdt

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-Ey, so we are derailing a bit from the subject. Obviously, when it comes to the Emerald Dreamer showing up and finding RP chat sorely neglected, this was a problem because she fell victim to trolling. The results have brought about a healthy conversation that, if it had not been brought up at all, could have cost us countless players due to this blind spot. Clearly, no one intended to erect barriers of entry, but that ended up happening nonetheless because there was no way for new people to know where to look. The correct answer is to be signed into both channels simultaneously.

On the subject of what constitutes acceptable RP, my hope would be that people would exercise flexibility within the confines of the Warcraft universe. What this discussion is essentially boiling down to is a series stereotypical generalizations of people since there really aren't examples presented to readers. No one is going to be a fascist RPer who says, "No, you cannot use your Mage powers to fight in Hellfire Citadel. Go home and tend your garden." Alternatively, no one is going to show up and advertise for the presidential election.

The type of RP that would probably be unacceptable to some people would be an offense to the community at large. Say, for example, a player showed up and this person determined that they were Anduin Wrynn's older brother from Varian's secret relationship with Onyxia. This guy is the legitimate, cream-of-the-crop successor to the crown. He is a smart, fit, half-black-dragon-possessed-by-the-old-gods jock, yet he has a dual personality that could activate at whim. That way, when he fights Horde, he's summoning tentacles to constrict the throats of casters and disarming hunters while simultaneously beathing fire on warriors, effectively melting their armor to their chests. Oh, by the way, in his MyRolePlay profile, it reads, "You tremble in his presence" within the 'currently' tab.

Basically, if you can design a character and ask yourself: "Is this character more powerful/influential/controlling than a typical character in Warcraft lore?" If you can answer yes, it's probably not good to proceed.

On the other hand, underpowered RP is generally not the other extreme people should aim for as a community goal. If Blizzard lets you be a Mage with Pyroblast, you are a Mage who can use Pyroblast. If Blizzard lets you fight alongside a war-band to defeat Warcraft's most hated current enemy, you can do that, too. If Blizzard lets you be a Warrior, you can do that and, as Kexti says, you can also be a Knight, Berserker, etc. The possibilities in this ballpark range from pleb to player. Personally, I created a Horde character on TwistingNether because I hoped to find a RPPVP guild that would allow me to explore how I perceived a Troll Warlock (Soul-Eater) would act. My ability to fulfill that was dependent upon the server's RP community acting on the Warcraft universe as reality for a consistent basis to grow and develop his personality.

The reality is that people usually can't ignore each other's RP. I don't actually see that happening, either. The Horde community seems to be in really good shape and people are content to springboard from what each other provides. The Grim used Rutilus Luna's possession conundrum to help get Shaelie on her merry way to Borrowed Time. We interacted regularly with both guilds to help make this possible. Kexti's Wreave plot helped Baalthemar become a member of The Grim; Borrowed Time, Twilight Empire, and Sanctuary all cooperated to take down Dreadlords from Quorum. Essentially, I just don't see people's concerns really matching reality. Maybe later on down the line? Perhaps, but, for now, let's enjoy the unique community that we have and keep an eye out on RP chat for returning players.

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"Acceptable RP" is quite the misnomer. What may be acceptable for one group is not acceptable to another. If it becomes an issue for anyone, I say they're free to ignore whatever it is they don't like and not even acknowledge it exists.

Why? Because their $15 is just as important as mine.

That being said... in regards to Feltide... I know a number of people don't like the plot and have a lot of snippy things to say about it, and you know what? That's fine. They don't have to participate. They also don't have to acknowledge involved characters are around if they hate it so much. I truly do not care, so long as none of them go out of their way to try and ruin the experience for those that do enjoy it and are participating in it. There's already been a couple of instances of people here seemingly trying to troll or force the RP to stop simply because we were doing it in "their area", but they eventually left when they figured out we weren't going to cow to them. Live and let live. If you are truly so offended by what other people are doing, put them on ignore. Promise you 9/10 times they're not going to care or even know you did.

Point is, either way, some people like Feltide, whereas others do not. No one is being forced to participate in it, and despite some of its topics, it's a safe place for some of us to play out our characters without concern that certain problematic people are going to jump in and cause a disruption just because they can. It's pretty much our right to have that, considering that again, the $15 we pay is just as important as anyone else's.

But, all the same... people should keep an open mind and give everyone, and everything, at least one chance... unless its something that they find unsettling or uncomfortable and can't deal with on a personal level. Then they have the right to quietly exit and not be involved and to not be judged for not wanting to be involved with it. Plot interactions are acceptable, but depending on how deep they go things should be talked over and sorted out beforehand with the people who are headlining them... like with the above example of Shaelie needing a reason to leave The Grim that wouldn't result in her character damaging the relationships she's formed with other members of that guild. We very well could have said "No, this is going to complicate things too much" and she would have had to find another way, but it presented a unique opportunity that has had some interesting after effects as a result, and I'm glad that not only DID she come to us but that we were able to help her out in a fun way.

That being said, though... If people blow their chances trying to come into a plot claiming they are the reincarnation of Kael'Thas and demanding everyone recognize them as a world leader who can pop heads just by thinking about it... I'm gonna first calmly and firmly ask that they slow their roll and either recognize that their character is laughably insane, or to pick something that doesn't require metagaming to accomplish. If they continue, I'm just not going to acknowledge them, because I'm not going to waste my $15 trying to please someone that wants to pretend they are all powerful at the expense of everyone else. Want to be a god? That's cool... but it sure is a good thing my character is a heathen who doesn't acknowledge or believe in you.

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-

Alternatively, no one is going to show up and advertise for the presidential election.

That's gonna happen now.

Oh and like:

-Essentially, I just don't see people's concerns really matching reality. Maybe later on down the line? Perhaps, but, for now, let's enjoy the unique community that we have and keep an eye out on RP chat for returning players.

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The reality is that people usually can't ignore each other's RP. I don't actually see that happening, either. The Horde community seems to be in really good shape and people are content to springboard from what each other provides. The Grim used Rutilus Luna's possession conundrum to help get Shaelie on her merry way to Borrowed Time. We interacted regularly with both guilds to help make this possible. Kexti's Wreave plot helped Baalthemar become a member of The Grim; Borrowed Time, Twilight Empire, and Sanctuary all cooperated to take down Dreadlords from Quorum. Essentially, I just don't see people's concerns really matching reality. Maybe later on down the line? Perhaps, but, for now, let's enjoy the unique community that we have and keep an eye out on RP chat for returning players.

Your whole post really resonates with me Ul, but this in particular deemed re-emphasis. I think that, overall, TN/RH has been in a really solid, active place in the last many months, with a number of large-scale RP storylines going on in addition to regularly accessible small-scale RP. Within the community there is a lot of communication, networking and coordination to keep things fresh and busy, and I think that's been a consistent strength of ours. Your last words emphasize what I really think is the action item coming out of all this: For all of us to do what we can to keep an eye on more common and accessible venues for new and returning RPers, and do our best to see to it that these people get pointed in the right direction and involved in the many wonderful things we've got going on as a community.

When in doubt, point people to TNG!

Say, for example, a player showed up and this person determined that they were Anduin Wrynn's older brother from Varian's secret relationship with Onyxia. This guy is the legitimate, cream-of-the-crop successor to the crown. He is a smart, fit, half-black-dragon-possessed-by-the-old-gods jock, yet he has a dual personality that could activate at whim. That way, when he fights Horde, he's summoning tentacles to constrict the throats of casters and disarming hunters while simultaneously breathing fire on warriors, effectively melting their armor to their chests. Oh, by the way, in his MyRolePlay profile, it reads, "You tremble in his presence" within the 'currently' tab.

I want to see this character come to life, and I nominate Yemana to play him because she's a big fan of dragon RP.

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I want to see this character come to life, and I nominate Yemana to play him because she's a big fan of dragon RP.

Half dragon half elf half human half bear with tentacles. Also, he makes all the ladies and more than a few men swoon.

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*swoons*

Anyway, I feel Ulrezaj hit the nail in the head. I feel being in both channels, answering questions honestly and transparently, promoting curiosity, and extending yourself to consider other RP styles is a good way to go about interacting with someone new to the server.

It's how I was approached and it's how I approach others who are new to the server.

((Wooo! Only 1 edit!))

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I think, against the requests of those more level headed at the time than I, I banned Ayther from the RP channel on grounds not entirely unrelated, but not directly connected, probably a day after this. Whether it sticks or not when I don't have control, I don't know, but as much as I'm usually tolerant of people being whatever they want, but his actions have struck me as unrepentantly trollish and bad for the community.

He has taken down that journal of his, which is a start, but I'm still not particularly keen on playing with the secret power behind the Kirin Tor that Jaina, Rhonin, and Medihv answer to, and if that's elitist, fine.

Also, the title of this thread is misleading, because I didn't see anything in it about xenophobia, which made me think someone was having issue with the Grim and their IC racist nonsense, at which point I was gonna say that the whole game is based off of a race war that has been going on and off for an entire generation.

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I'd stop mentioning him, honestly. He's gone and he's used up any fraction of a chance he had left to participate here.

As for the xenophobia title of the thread... Incorrect word being used to portray a certain emotion, I suppose. One established culture being fearful/discriminating of newer people not established within it IS discriminatory and causes unneeded rifts where there don't need to be any. I'm not sure if the word qualifies for THIS instance, though, because the person the thread was initially about (Alysta) came in wanting to start a fight to begin with, or so it seemed they did. They can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but their already negative attitude made them prone to being sabotaged completely by "that guy", and unfortunately it's mostly their own fault, because I nor anyone else here is beholden to coddling or expending all my time and energy to tell someone they're wrong when they're so adamant that their assumptions were right.

If I go into something like say... a movie, and I fully expect it to suck and be a waste of money, then guess what? That movie is likely going to suck and be a waste of my money to have gone seen, because no matter what, all I'm going to see are the flaws and feel justified in my initial assumption. Maybe I'm right and the movie does suck and is a waste of money, but on the other hand, I just wasted my time watching and paying for a movie that I knew I wasn't going to like because I didn't even want to give it a chance, in which case, why did I even bother going at all?

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I'm having a good time and think that my actions help foster a healthy roleplay community (just started sending Grim Supplicants, on their second trial, out to talk to one non-Grim). If anyone has an issue with the way I (or my officer subordinates in specific to official Grim work) conduct myself, please send me a PM. Or hell, post it here. The one thing that demoralizes me more than anything else is vague innuendo and hints, so be up front with me if there are problems. I'm a pretty chill guy.

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