RowlandEx

Xenophobic Behavior and Discrimination on The Netherholdt

Recommended Posts

Dear Netherholdt

It shames me to have to make this thread, but just the other day I got more troubling news of an already rampant problem on our combined realms. A friend of the Jade Lion who primarily plays on Emerald Dream came back to visit our realm and try to rp. When they inquired about Horde side rp they were bombarded with regret. Instead of the helpful and welcoming community we should be and expected to be; they were met with hostilities.

"There is a real rp chat, but you aren't invited"

These are the words that greet returning and new members of our realm. I would have hoped we had learned that such bigotry has nothing but harmed our community. Enough harm was inflicted upon our realm's reputation during the last couple years. When potential friends and guildies were disregarded and harassed In-game via ganks and vile messages. I remember coming on one day and two members from Emerald Dream scared to even attempt to engage in open role-play because they thought there was some rule against the realms cross rping due to innumerable verbal assault and that is in only recent memory.

This enclosed community mindset is sapping the life of our realm's morality and worse preventing potential growth. It is not a person problem, it is not a guild or even faction problem as it's been seen on both sides. It is a realm problem that continues to be proliferated by pretending it is not there.

It undoes the hard work of guilds outreach programs that have done in trying to interconnect the realms (such as the Silver Sickness event for cross-realm and the Grim ambassador program for cross-faction).

The Jade Lion does not tolerate bigotry or support any group or organization if believed to be engaging in harmful behavior for our realms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having talked to the individual myself as well, I find it disappointing that this has occurred. Our guild, The Jade Lion, will support more acceptance to anyone who wishes to get into, or back into, role-play on all of our realm. I hope this message can shed more light onto the topic, and for people to be aware when they see it so they can help put a stop to a damaging and hurtful practice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

tarted on 05/25/2016 at 21:43:30.

[Alystá]: so many people on xtensionxtooltip2 but not so much rp channel))

[Ayther]: Heya))

[Kexti]: That is actually a super interesting point

[Kerala]: RP channel is basically extinct in favor of a super-secret channel

[Alystá]: get those nerds in here))

[Ayther]: RP channel is the cool kids silent club club ))

[Alystá]: back in my day if you weren't in RP channel you're doing it wrong))

[Kerala]: I vote we abandon the current channel in favor of returning to use this one!

[Alystá]: whats the other channel?))

[Kerala]: I don't think I'm allowed to tell

[Ayther]: first rule of RP channel is dont invite anyone to RP channel ))

[Kexti]: People usually RP in Warspear

[Alystá]: An RP channel that nobody's allowed to know? that seems counterproductive))

[Thayen]: I though it was "What happens in RP chnnel stays in RP channel..."

[Kerala]: i know right?

[sanyaza]: Aids did not stay in RP channel

[sanyaza]: Just like it did not stay in Vegas

[Ayther]: there we go we eliminated the uncool. GJ team ))

[Kerala]: well you are not nice, so you are uncool.

[sanyaza]: Fuck I come back after a year and people bouncing out already))

[Kerala]: welcome back

[Ayther]: :( ))

[Ayther]: do I have to leave then ? ))

[Kerala]: or you could just maybe not be an jerk. that would work too.

[Ayther]: or can I stay in RP channel. cause im in RP channel ? ))

[Alystá]: Yeah I was wanting to reroll on this server but my hopes ain't that high))

[Ayther]: knows alts ))

[Ayther]: all in good fun ))

[Kerala]: what do you mean about high hopes alysta?

[Alystá]: RP community's small as it is but doesn't seem to welcome new or returning Rpers))

[Alystá]: No wonder it's so dead))

[Ayther]: You can join, you just cant leave ))

[Ayther]: unless youre uncool, then you are kicked out ))

[Kerala]: we are plenty welcoming! but, as you said, we are small. we aren't very active during non-peak hours, and some people are very distracted with RL

[Alystá]: Well I mean))

[Ayther]: omg this isnt RL !!! ahhh! ))

[Alystá]: If you were being serious about a "closed" rp channel, that's pretty fragmented))

[Ayther]: its "find only" no invites ))

[Ayther]: if you are cool youll find it ))

[Alystá]: that's incredibly stupid))

[Ayther]: I dont run RP channel. I'm just talking crap ))

[sanyaza]: Noone runs RP channel. It is anarchy incarnate.))

[Kerala]: anyway alysta, if you expect not to be welcomed, that's what you're going to get. attitude comes through in wording and if you aren't open-minded, it will show. if you're really interested in coming back though, you'll find us generally awesome and

[Ayther]: RP channel runs itself ))

[Kerala]: we often have a lot of storylines that pop up, and plenty of weekly opportunities for non-coordinated walk-up RP

[Ayther]: in all seriousness anyone whos interested can join RP channel of course. it just seems no one wants to ))

[Alystá]: Twisting Nether/Ravenholdt has always had issues with RPers isolating themselves and sticking their noses up at other RPers, and I'm sure that isn't true for everyone))

[Alystá]: But that's honestly a REAL killer for an already small RP community))

[Kerala]: then go somewhere else

[Alystá]: And so the idea of people just flat-out not joining RP channel and having secret channels is like eughh))

[Alystá]: Not helpful))

[Ayther]: I cant disagree ))

[Kerala]: i mean if you wanna hold onto attitudes from years and years ago, by all means.

[Ayther]: either way, clubs are clubs because they try and group like minded individuals, not just anyone. so i respect that ))

[Kerala]: also- I'm just one person. And plus- I'm not Playing Well With Others at the moment.

[Kerala]: so feel free to flat out ignore me if you want. idgaf

[Alystá]: Well there's clubs, and there's clubs that don't want to play with everyone else))

[Alystá]: Which, to each their own))

[Alystá]: But that's a server killer))

[Kerala]: I'm not in a club.

[Ayther]: Well I'm not in any clubs.. i think i got kicked out of whatever club is Netherholdt. i just hang out now )

[Alystá]: Well, i'm not talking about either one of you in particular))

[Alystá]: This is the kind of stuff that killed Twisting Nether, and that's why a LOT of people xfered off))

[sanyaza]: You say that but every server is exactly like that)

[Alystá]: So yeah, I'm going to hold onto old attitudes if it's still a problem even after 3 years))

[sanyaza]: WrA and MG are both very very exclusive in their RP))

[Alystá]: You're not wrong Sanyaza, but that's an even BIGGER problem on a server so small))

[sanyaza]: This is true))

[Alystá]: Which is why when I came on here and I was being told there's a secret RP channel where people go to not be with all the other RPers))

[Alystá]: I was like "???? lmao aight??"))

[Ranadarus]: ((more like it was to avoid griefers))

[Kerala]: I did not say that. I said RP channel is not being used, and I'm not going to tell you the new one because I don't know you

[Kerala]: and yes, this channel was under attack by Cefka i think his name was for a very very long time

[Alystá]: And that's a barrier for new and returning RPers))

[Alystá]: You can easily be in both channels))

[Kerala]: i am

[Ranadarus]: ((As am I))

[Alystá]: cool beans, you should really try to get all these xtensiontooltip people in here too))

[Ranadarus]: ((Maybe go make a post on the TNG and establish your character, and you can have the channel name))

[Ranadarus]: ((Because the other RP channel is centered around that forum))

[Ranadarus]: ((Which... is free to join))

[Alystá]: I've had a TNG since wrath))

[Ayther]: wrath!!! yes!!! ))

[shaelie]: who were you, Alysta?

[Ayther]: I mean.. *restrains himself* ))

[Alystá]: ;) ))

[Alystá]: Still, it'd be really cool to get this channel used so new and returning RPers don't have to face a barrier))

[Alystá]: might make TN/RH more warm and welcoming))

[sanyaza]: I think we need to be more edgy

[sanyaza]: and hipster

[sanyaza]: at the same time

[Alystá]: needs more DKs))

[Ayther]: oh oh.. needs more battles. yes more battles ))

[sanyaza]: There's only 29 DKs online on the whole server

[sanyaza]: so I would say we need more

[Ayther]: wait.. is that an RP thing? battles? ))

[sanyaza]: Large-scale ones?

[Ayther]: needs more rule of three.. yes more of that ))

[Alystá]: anyways, im outy))

[Alystá]: l8r m8s))

Now I freely admitted in there somewhere that I am not emotionally stable, but it really does tick me off that someone new wants to come in here and do nothing but complain. We told them where to get information, and how, and when, and all that while Ayther was doing his trolling. I have been told many times that the common channel is not for sharing and so I did not. That's not my fault.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Allow me to set straight the intentions behind the "secret" RP channel on Horde.

It is invite-only. That is true. The reason for this is that it ensures a quality community where everyone present has been vouched for by someone else. It also avoids trolls and even more unfortunate people like He Must Not Be Named. If it's a little cliqueish, it's only enough to give it the advantages of letting people feel comfortable and secure in the environment.

That's because anyone is welcome to be invited. So long as someone is willing to tender them an invite, anyone is welcome to learn about the channel and join it. There are no requirements other than you've spoken to someone and not made an ass out of yourself to get invited to the channel. It is completely welcoming once you enter the RP community, and new people join it all the time thanks to guildmembers telling them about it, or simply walk-up RP leading to an OOC whisper. I have myself invited literally dozens of people to it, and I'm using "literally" literally.

Therefore, if you think about it, remarking in a public channel "oh, there's a secret channel and you're not invited" is completely counter to this idea. You should either be chatting with someone enough that you decide to invite them to the channel, or not enough that it's worth mentioning that the channel exists. There really isn't any space in between where you could fall. The only reason you would say that is to rub it in someone's face, or because you disagree with the policy and are trying to cast it in the worst PR light possible, which is unfortunate and harmful to the community.

We already have a public RP channel on Horde. In fact, we have two. No growth is being prevented. Those channels were dead before the invite-only channel came to exist; they aren't dead because of it. In fact, it is because the invite-only channel is invite-only that the community has flourished. I have been here from the start and watched it happen. You merely have to log over to Alliance and see that similar growth has not occurred on the public channel on that side to realize it's true. You can claim it's more harmful than good, but the results speak for themselves.

I understand that it can have the downside of seeming exclusive to those who aren't in the know (though that should never, ever long be the case, per the intentions described above). But I have managed to help ensure the comfort and security of the community while helping steer people in the direction of inclusivity. We can all do it, and we can definitely avoid painting ourselves as exclusive, which is as good as making it true.

Anyone who visits TNG or Sanctum and who reaches out to the community for RP should get invited. Anyone who walks up in the game to the Cantina or Brokenspear when there's RP and who participates nondisruptively should get an invite. We are very inclusive. If anyone ever sees any exclusive behavior going on, like misleading or unnecessary remarks in a public venue, they can and should speak up to set the record straight, which will probably include privately tendering that invite rather than claiming for some reason it can't be done.

Some people may misunderstand; some may deliberately misrepresent. I can't help that and it's bound to happen. But I will continue to contribute to the community as well as I am able, assume the best of others, and be the best I can be, and I hope everyone reading this will do the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Jade Lion, I got the impression that your friend was out to complain and talk smack about RH-TN, besides Ayther trolling *smacks Ayther* they were politely told the situation and they insisted on making a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@ Jade Lion, I got the impression that your friend was out to complain and talk smack about RH-TN, besides Ayther trolling *smacks Ayther* they were politely told the situation and they insisted on making a problem.

The thing is, they shouldn't have been "told the situation". They should have either been engaged until a current member decided to give them an invite, or told ahead of time by their guildies about the channel so they could join it. There is no in-between where someone should be told about the channel but not invited to it. That's being exclusive and hurtful for no reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is no in-between where someone should be told about the channel but not invited to it. That's being exclusive and hurtful for no reason.

I have always referred people to you because it never even occurred to me that I could invite anyone myself- it's a secret channel, and it's not mine. Telling people about the channel is the extent of my welcome, because I don't understand the whole system. I'd be the person that invites the troll, you know?

That entire idea.... I have never once invited anyone to join the channel...

I wasn't trying to be hurtful on purpose, not initially. And then I reacted very poorly, and continue to do so.

Anyway- there's your log for straight honesty, and I'm sorry for my own behavior.

I'm going to go crawl in a hole now and just not interact for a while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So there's a bit more heat coming from multiple sides here than is necessary for this conversation, and I want to make sure that there's some awareness of this, because I think it's a healthy discussion to have so long as respect and attitude are kept in mind. I know I can count on you all to keep this a safe and minimally hostile space.

"[Alystá]: Still, it'd be really cool to get this channel used so new and returning RPers don't have to face a barrier"

I have some thoughts here. Back when Twisting Nether first opened it's doors, I was a fresh-faced roleplayer excited to get involved in a setting that I was a fan of from prior games, and although I didn't know a ton about where to find roleplay or how to start getting involved, joining a channel called 'RP' seemed like a pretty safe bet, and in doing so I found basically everything that I now care so much about. The channel was at the time in-character, and I was super nervous about even trying to interject myself into conversation with who I had to imagine were much more experienced roleplayers than me, so I lurked around for a decent bit before taking a stab, and in doing so learned about a new community site called the Twising Nether Gazette, which I had otherwise not heard about.

I have had mixed feelings about maybe not doing enough to be inclusive to new and returning community members. I think it's fine that the TNG community has a channel that isn't public but very open via invite, but it can still be very difficult for new players to even know where to look. I am hoping that coming into movie and expansion time bringing new faces to the community, I and others can do more to foster a sense of welcoming openness that doesn't have the impression of coming from behind closed doors, and I do think that maybe encouraging a bit more activity and conversation in the /rp channel (even so much as event reminders and open calls for RP) could go a long way to bringing the community -to- the new players, and not only waiting to include those who have already stepped a foot into the scene and have started to make some connections.

I do think that one party entered the scene with maybe a predisposition to be let down, another was defensive of a community they care about but maybe let that reaction get a bit too heated, and yet another just continues to be disappointingly problematic and harmful. But this particular clash of personalities aside, I think that it's true that there is something of a barrier to entry to the RP community on this server, and I don't think it is intentional or pointed (and I think terms like xenophobic and discriminatory are stronger and more serious than the situation might call for) but I do think it's real. I don't think that I could have the same experience being a fresh player to the server and game world and finding my place as easily and fortunately as I did, and my hope is that I and others will be able to do something to make that experience a little better. We're coming into a really opportune time to show the strength and activity of our server and I think that doing so will pay dividends in a widened community, which only spells good things for future RP and RPers.

That's all I've got for tonight. I do really encourage a productive conversation on the subject, but again have to warn against anybody going too far in their passion or taking things to a personal or potentially hurtful level. I know that we as members of an awesome and tight-knit community can ensure that happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have always referred people to you because it never even occurred to me that I could invite anyone myself- it's a secret channel, and it's not mine. Telling people about the channel is the extent of my welcome, because I don't understand the whole system. I'd be the person that invites the troll, you know?

That entire idea.... I have never once invited anyone to join the channel...

I wasn't trying to be hurtful on purpose, not initially. And then I reacted very poorly, and continue to do so.

Anyway- there's your log for straight honesty, and I'm sorry for my own behavior.

I'm going to go crawl in a hole now and just not interact for a while.

It's true there's certainly no step by step posted anywhere for the customs for the channel; it's always been word of mouth and such. I'm sorry it was unclear and I appreciate you meant no harm. And I've definitely not always been a saint myself, if I may egregiously understate. Don't worry, Kerala, we love you and we already forgive you for anything you feel bad about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This whole thing is just making me sad. Especially when one mentions something that doesn't seem quite right, they get the response of "Its not ME or MY friends doing it" or "how dare you!" I read the new player's first few lines a few times and there is no evidence that this person was going to insult the server before they found the state of things (being told they were not invited to an RP community channel), which in the moment confirmed their fears of a fragmented and elitist community. Sometimes when you try to be optimistic, and then learn something like that? Especially if you get no context, you get discouraged. It happens to anyone and everyone. Unless you're a space alien that never gets hurt.

I unsubscribed myself because the cliqueishness and exclusivity weighed on me a lot. I've tried forcing my way in, then talking about it with several people to the point that I just don't care to try any more. I have been on Ravenholdt as my home and role playing since The Burning Crusade. I loved and love my server but I am honestly considering finding a new circle of people and transferring somewhere else, even a place that isn't nearly as close as we all were and even though at this point it almost feels like it's not nearly worth the trouble.

Everyone had pride in our tiny community and it was amazing, but it has fallen to pointing fingers at who is to blame for slights or for one's 'wrongfully' perceived ideas of the state of the community as a whole. I think I have demonstrated I am a rather patient person, but I know what it's like for the things I see going on in my days to be brushed off as I merely "feel that way" or I "don't try hard enough" while being vocal about people joining me or being available in the channel, or being "too attached" to people I have jumped to do stuff for and with in the past because they wanted it. There's more to it than that, but I'm exhausted from making attempts over and over again to feel included.

Can we please just work together and have some empathy? Sometimes you don't see something that is wrong until someone on the outside says it. Have you ever had or seen someone with a nervous tic that you/they didn't know about until someone else said so? And I don't mean people that willingly try to continually upset others in IC and OOC ways. Stop being offended because someone else wants a fair chance at being a part of things. We are all here to have fun, and in a social way. And none of us would be doing it (or trying to) if we didn't want others to have fun with us too. Moving forward is always better than the alternative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will try to pay more attention to the /RP channel. If I see a name there I don't recognize, I'll try to greet them and help them get involved. I think I may have left the RP channel, because everyone is in the new channel, but with the movie and expansion, /RP may be a good place to catch some new people again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Brey raises a lot of good points. Admittedly I speak mostly for my perception of Horde-side stuff, but I'll definitely try to be more involved in /RP and directing new players towards common RP sites. We aren't always going to agree on RP or want to RP all the time, though the idea of using /horde and /rp as extra channels is a good idea.

We strive in a lot of ways to be inclusive, but it can be exhausting when it seems like everyone is trying to keep to themselves. We're a small server, and the RP community in WoW in general is shrinking. Right now we should try our best to be welcoming to new voices, whether they're perceived as antagonistic or not, until they prove themselves to be actively disruptive. Not to say we'll like everyone, but it's worth thinking about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I deleted a bunch of unnecessary off-topic conversation, but do encourage continued discourse about the actual thread subject!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I may put my two cents in, because I can echo Aarens sentiments a bit having transferred off to another realm during mists, because I couldn't stand the toxicity of a handful of individuals here.

What drove me away from TN the first time was an attitude that I'm now starting to see resurface here given the presence of a few individuals and their outspoken if misguided beliefs on roleplaying and storytelling in general. Not using names, because it'd be counterproductive to do that, but please read what I have to say and see if it applies to you.

On one side, there are those who are very dogmatic and follow the guidelines of lore to the exact lines. No room for interpretation, no room for flexibility, you have to follow what Blizzard has said. Period. If you don't, despite the fact that Blizzard themselves has contradicted themselves on their lore as many times Trump has on his views, if you aren't in line with the cannon, you're a fool, and will be crucified for defying them. Even for the littlest of offenses.

On the other side, you have people who are creative enough to think well outside the box with their stories. Sure, some of it might not make sense or be kosher, heck, even all of it might be completely bonkers. But they are creative enough to try thinking differently and might contribute something that ends up being pretty spectacular. Even if it is questionable or doesnt fit into the lore.

The common thread that connects these two? The attitude of 'holier-than-thou' that each side directs at the opposite. One person thinks another is wrong, acts on those thoughts, usually in a way that ends up backfiring, and then the other side retaliates, escalating the issue. Then it turns into a cycle of back and fourth, growing the hatred and toxicity like a stirring stick in a vile brew. And eventually, it starts to stink, real bad. Like one of those bad egg smells; You just have to get out of the room before you puke. Eventually, the stink starts driving everyone out, and you're left with nothing but shit stink everywhere.

It's this kind of toxicity that drove me off Twisting Nether a few years ago. The server I called home since I started in the Burning Crusade. And you know what? Being part of a different RP community for a while really opens your eyes and gives you a lot more perspective on what you can and can't get away with in RP. On top of that, the toxicity I see here, while it existed, it more or less got ignored. Because the people who would propagate it would either be ignored and fade into obscurity, or people more often than not would extend the olive branch, try to help them, politely and constructively offer suggestions and people would most importantly move on.

Bottom line I guess I want to make here is that I'm seeing a lot of the same toxicity rear its ugly head again. And we need to remember first and foremost that were a community, were all here because we love warcraft, we love RP, and we should be working with each other in a positive way instead of trying to crucify those we disagree with. Just my thoughts on all this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there's a different toxicity between concept and server accessibility and clique-ishness. I think there's a very rude and false dichotomy between stifling literalism and enlightened creativity that a lot of people seem to buy into. It's not wrongbadfun if you want to play Orgar the orc warrior, and it's not the end of the world if people want to play dragons or rune knights or summoners, or whatever. Even hybrid races, or non-strictly legal things are fine, if done in moderation.

I think a lot of frustration and complaint, from my point of view, is that because of our small community, it's very difficult bordering on impossible to compartmentalize some of the more unusual RP that people are fascinated by, and it can feel like the majority of focus is given to characters that jump the game's boundaries. If we were a larger server and there was RP you didn't want to be part of, that's fine, and you can get on with your day. Lately, it feels as though it's basically a choice of "accept all RP all the time forever" or "be a mean, derisive dick" or "leave," and I think none of those options are particularly fair, appealing, or fun. It's all about degrees and comfort levels, and I think the gradient is becoming more polarized rather than meshed, and it can feel like there's not a lot of alternatives.

There's nothing wrong with chocolate ice cream. But when you open your box of mint chip, and there's no mint in it, it can be...challenging. I want to RP in WoW because I also want to play WoW the game, with its lore, with its boundaries, with its constraints. Creativity comes in operating within that framework, to me. Classes, races, and professions in WoW encompass a ton of concepts that I feel can be iterated on and still feel fresh and unique. A warrior can be a knight, a berserker, a blademaster, and so on, and there's a lot of flexibility in how your orc character feels and interacts with the world, or even what cultures they incorporate or admire in their expression of yourself as character in the game.

This doesn't mean I'm not open to lorebending for a better story, or even people RPing really niche or unusual things, and I definitely admire the time people put into RPing and designing their character concepts. But after a certain point, it becomes irritating, to me, when very few people are on the face what they are, and their characters seem more chosen because they want to be X in WoW rather than something produced by WoW organically, or despite the fact that having an orc warrior and tuskarr skald can be functionally the same character but the latter is superficially more unique. And lacks a player model.

And this is just me expressing some of my frustration, and not being hyper-critical or hypocritical. I like all of you as people, but it feels really bad to have the choice between RP that cleaves increasingly loose to what's available RAW, in game, or to leave. WoD is almost over and I think the lack of content has some people really stretching the boundaries of what RP they can accomplish, and that's fine, and hopefully Legion will get some of the jitters out. There's nothing inherently bad or wrong with trying to do different things. It's just not what I, personally, came to Warcraft to experience.

We have a lot of extremely positive upsides, both in RP and gameplay. Every character matters, and generally, you know every person you're going to run across in RP. I don't think *anyone* has ever been turned away from RP unless it was 1 on 1 or guild-internal stuff.

And, because we're playing a video game, the mechanics do count for a lot even if they don't directly impact RP frequently; your gameplay side of things aren't inhibited by a ton of people out in the world competing against your goals, and internally you can (admittedly with a non-zero value of bitching) basically make any set of mechanics/spec/race work in most environments, which just flat isn't true in a lot of places. I know I'm definitely not a saint when it comes to optimization or flexibility, and I'm trying really hard not to get on a soapbox about it. But TN/RH is probably the most welcoming server environment mechanics-side I've ever been, and our progression (essentially, upper-end content in raiding, PvP, challenge modes, etc.) is very, very good given our server pop.

Ultimately, I RP and I play WoW on Ravenholdt-TwistingNether because I like the mechanical opportunities and OOC interactions it fosters. To me, RP, PvP, and PvE are all facets of the same game. But I RP in WoW because I want to RP in WoW, not in another setting.

Honestly, I'm onboard with a community canon thing too, for specific areas we're departing from the main story, as long as it's clarified that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...I didn't realize the super-secret channel was secret--if it's the one I'm in. Why is it secret? If that's the one we use, do we have monitors in the RP one? Do we have ways for RPs to come to the channel? Do we not want them?

Why is it secret? Can I say it? Will I be kicked out if I say it?

Why is it secret?

-N

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...I didn't realize the super-secret channel was secret--if it's the one I'm in. Why is it secret? If that's the one we use, do we have monitors in the RP one? Do we have ways for RPs to come to the channel? Do we not want them?

Why is it secret? Can I say it? Will I be kicked out if I say it?

Why is it secret?

-N

Do you know who Cefka is, and the things he has said and done? Him and people like him are why we have 'secret' or passworded rp channels (I hate using the word secret, because obviously we want the whole community and every RPer to be in the channel, but it acts as a screen to keep Cefka and people like Cefka out). When people feel threatened and unsafe in real life, that is far beyond the point when you start taking measures to protect not just those people, but our whole community.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you guys wouldn't mind editing your posts to remove his name -- these forums are public to the Internet and show up on Google results, and I'd rather he didn't find them out of idly googling his handle.

Also Andy, feel free to refer to my first post in this thread for a comprehensive explanation of why the channel is invite-only, trolls being basically the reason, but there being shades of complexity to it.

As for conflict over canon vs. non-canon RP... I understand the frustration. The community and roleplaying by nature is collaborative and sometimes that means you come face to face with stuff that's not to your taste. And there are times when the pendulum in our community has definitely swung closer to the non-canon side and that can make those who prefer staying close to canon frustrated and feel alienated. My view on it is this: If you don't see the kind of RP you like, then make it. If you play it, they will come -- "they" being people who share your tastes. The Grim, for example, are a well-populated, highly respected guild that maintains lore standards. The audience is definitely there for within-canon roleplay. But it won't happen if no one tries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me I am a firm believer of live and let live. You may not 100% be on board with someone's RP, but they pay the same money you do to RP on this server that you do. So to me what does that mean? It means you don't have to LIKE how everyone else RPs, you can't tell them to stop because they are wrong (because let's be honest people ALL have different opinions on how things should be played and NO ONE here is the RP police) but you do have the right to disregard it. But we shouldn't be squandering RP in anyway when there is so little of it these days... but instead maybe try to help nurture it like a seed in soil. If a person chooses NOT to take your advice though... that is their option as well. Again we all pay the same money to be here and RP here.

As for the secret channel... it is a bit of a deterrent to new and returning players. When I came back to Twisting Nether... if it hadn't been for a good friend of mine whispering me on bnet about the troll-free channel I would've gone on oblivious to it's existence and would've gone on wondering whatever happened to RP channel.

So because of that. I now peek into RP channel on a more regular basis... just to see who's in there because I don't wish to miss the return of any of my old friends. Just my two cents on the matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is it secret?

-N

To curb the efforts of griefers, of which it seems some have evolved beyond just being a nuisance in RP. However, the one named here hasn't been online from what I've seen in a good while, so either they quit the game or got their account banned.

No one is saying to not give the 'secret' channel name out. If you find someone new and want to introduce them, then do so. Consider it WoW-TNG.org's OOC channel. People are still in /rp and no one has said "Don't ever do anything in there".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead