Joewaldren

Mists of Pandaria Discussion

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If anyone doesn't want to go through all the press stuff, I went through it today (took me for-fucking-ever). It on my blog: http://specintomisdirect.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/mop-press-release-fuck-yous-right-ons-and-other-info/ I'm not copy pastaing because it's a huge post and I don't want to spam. If anyone would prefer, I'll copy pasta for them.

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One thing I've still seen NO mention of is whether or not any of the areas destroyed by Deathwing will be repaired when Mists is released. What is the status of Southshore? Is the front of Stormwind still all torn up, and the old barracks still crumbled and in flames? It seems kind of ridiculous for that to have not been taken care of by now.. although I think it would have been neat and more realistic if they had made subtle improvements throughout all of the patches during Cataclysm, with everything restored by the end of this expansion.. so much for that, though.

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One thing I've still seen NO mention of is whether or not any of the areas destroyed by Deathwing will be repaired when Mists is released. What is the status of Southshore? Is the front of Stormwind still all torn up, and the old barracks still crumbled and in flames? It seems kind of ridiculous for that to have not been taken care of by now.. although I think it would have been neat and more realistic if they had made subtle improvements throughout all of the patches during Cataclysm, with everything restored by the end of this expansion.. so much for that, though.

Stratholme is still on fire so I doubt it but it would be nice.

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There wasn't really any word, but I think, and this is speculation, we will see some upgrades as time goes by. I'm really interested in how the "Pandaria War" will be a step by step event. Eventual exploration, then more and more Horde/Alliance show up as the war heats up...

I assume they're going to fix up, at least, Orgrimmar, for the final battawl. (Only for us PvE folk to rip it down once more!)

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I'll probably take the first three days off, just so I can grind Zuri to 90....then start on Euphoria, then Yvira ( Oh jesus all of the healers).

ONCE Zuri gets to 90, she just might turn into a panda (*gasp*) with the actual character being something else.

And then I just may log onto the new toon and /roll around in Jade Forest forever and ever and ever.

Edited for: OMGOMGOMGOMG LOREWALKERS SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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One thing I really am excited about is the concept of the farms, and associated dailies. Personally, I can't help but wonder if this this Blizzards way of testing the waters for possible player housing in the future. The reason I think that might be a possibility is because the farms will most likely be instanced. They have a very similar thing in Lotro (Lord of the Rings Online) with both farms and player housing, and I have a feeling Blizzard got the idea from that.

The way housing worked in Lotro was a series of neighborhood.. each containing maybe a dozen houses of different sizes and costs. You entered the neighborhood through a portal similar to entering a dungeon, so they didn't take up all that extra space in the world. If they make the farms instanced and it's successful, I could see player housing happening someday in the (far) future.

As for the farming itself- if it's anything like they do in Lotro- and it sounds like it will be - it was a lot of fun! I absolutely love professions though, so this was just another fun option. You started out with a few different seeds to plant either vegetables, wheat, or tobacco. As you leveled up, you would unlock different seeds. It wasn't like Farmville where you plant things and check it over several days. It was more like any profession or fishing. You planted the seeds and had a progress bar, and you could actually see the plant growing. Then you harvested it. The whole process didn't take much longer than fishing from a school of fish.

The fields were not individually owned. It was more like a community area and you'd see several people in the same field, all planting and harvesting things. I'm wondering if it's going to be something like this, with our own little farm houses around it that we can decorate. I'm really hoping they'll be instanced BUT in groups so you can visit each others farms or have neighbors. It seems to me like it would be easier for them to put clusters of people in each instance rather than having one instance for every single player in the game.

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With the Beta live, could some of the first wavers within the community post their thoughts on different aspects of the new content? Temp Varian vs Real Varian? Funny/cool screenshots? Favorite things? Disappointing things? Remember, there is no NDA for this beta so feel free to share!

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There isn't much to do atm besides 1-10 Pandaren starting zone.

Blizzard also has the new SM and Scholomance in the game, but there isn't any new voiceacting or quests in it yet. They also have the updated RFC in the game atm.

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Mastery is currently bugged. And Mastery is what gives the Warlock its damage reduction. The Warlock in the video has 99% damage reduction because Mastery dipping is broken atm.The video poster even notes this:

Demonology tanking is currently very overpowered due to a very high return on Mastery scaling and very high damage in general

GC also just came out and said that Warlocks are not going to be tanks. There's already massive QQ on the forums because of his announcement.

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Unless they add + stam cloth back into the game it isn't going to happen.

It'd be easy enough without doing that. Pick a spec, say Demonology, nerf it's DPS, and have unconventional tanking as derived from spells. Thus Intellect and Spirit would still govern how well you tank through spell power and cost mechanisms.

Warlock tanking would be damned fun. Crazy fun. AoEs and DoTs, demon armour and forms, minions, soulstones. Yeah it would be a unique play experience. Kinda like healing with melee DPS class equipped with a weapon that heals instead of hurts. Turns the play style on it's head.

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I don't want one of my specs of my pure dps class becoming a tank. That won't help anything, outside of people who will try once, and then the vast majority of them will never touch it again. It doesn't make sense from a gameplay perspective, and it doesn't make sense from a lore perspective. Blizzard talked lately about adding in tanking class/specs, and have said before that there is already too many. This is not needed. If somebody wants to tank, roll a tanking class.

Keep that crap out of my class.

I hate to rain on people's parades (Actually...scratch that...I love it) but we've seen now that Mastery is currently bugged in the Beta (I could have told you that...as Destro I'm critting for upwards of 170k with Soulfire because of how double dipping Mastery is), and Blizzard's own admissions. Warlocks are not going to be main tanks guys, sorry.

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I don't want one of my specs of my pure dps class becoming a tank.
Fair enough. Though you only use 2 of the available specs, and a 4th could be added like druids.
It doesn't make sense from a gameplay perspective, and it doesn't make sense from a lore perspective.
How so? It makes a ton of sense in terms of gameplay- tank by managing spells instead of facerolling 3 buttons and wearing plate. That would be a refreshing challenge.

I don't understand how wouldn't work lorewise. Deathknights used to be undead mounted warlocks. Then they weren't undead, but somehow inwardly absent of soul and goodness, like Arthas. Now they are undead again, and a more like blackguard anti-paladins then mounted necromancers. My point is Blizzard reinterprets it's classes all the time, and not all possible character builds are represented by those that are currently playable.

Blizzard talked lately about adding in tanking class/specs, and have said before that there is already too many.
As in there are too many tanks in game? Because when I queue as a tank wait times are still dramatically shorter.

On a side note, rogue agility/dodge/parry/CC based tanking would be sweet.

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Warlocks, in every venue of Blizzard's lore, have always been frail, but extremely powerful ranged casters who use Demons to do their bidding and use Fel Fire anD Shadow Magic to destroy their enemies from a far. They are NOT, "lulz guys ima perma demon form and use my vw to gain aggro for me and sit here and let shit pound on me."

And yes, Warcraft 2 Death Knights were essentially mounted spellcasters. But they were still spellcasters. They weren't melee spellcasters, they weren't a tanking type of unit like a Knight or Abomination from War 3. You're correct, Blizzard reinterpreted their view of Death Knights and made them into the melee-based class that it is today. But even though there were Death Knights back in the Warcraft 2 lore's days, there were still Warlocks. Still the Gul'dans and the Ner'zhuls of the lore, before other more famous ones such as Medivh and Kil'Jaeden had their debut.

Finally, we're also about to get another whole class that can tank. Another class with a tanking spec is not necessary.

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I get that it isn't necessary, but it would be fun, and I think games should be fun driven, not necessity driven. It wouldn't hurt having another tank, and it'd be fun to play.

As for the lore, I don't see that it'd have to be that much of a problem. One could have reworded what you said in a non-spastic voice and I don't think it would really sound all too bad "Muahaha fools. Behold the boon of transformation, such is the power of fel magicks. Voidwalker! Bring them to me, their pithy weapons cannot hope to penetrate the dark gift of Kil'Jaeden."

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Warlocks were never made, presented, or even implied to be a tanking type of class. Ever. And the only thing the voidwalker does is give a passive ability that makes everything you do gain more aggro. It's not like it's actively getting things to attack you. It just sits there meleeing things.

They were more durable than Mages and Priests, and had "tankish" aspects to them, such as higher health pools, but they were always fragile to melee. Always. In fact, it's one of their biggest problems from a PvP standpoint.

I usually defend Blizzard. In fact, probably 99% of the time I do. But this time I cannot and I will not. I'm allowed to have one thing I irrationally hate.

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Warlocks were never made, presented, or even implied to be a tanking type of class. Ever. And the only thing the voidwalker does is give a passive ability that makes everything you do gain more aggro. It's not like it's actively getting things to attack you. It just sits there meleeing things.

They were more durable than Mages and Priests, and had "tankish" aspects to them, such as higher health pools, but they were always fragile to melee. Always. In fact, it's one of their biggest problems from a PvP standpoint.

'Tanking' is a gameplay mechanic. It shouldn't guide narrative. What class was Illidan, for example? What about archimonde? Troll axethrowers in WCII were ranged attackers who used thrown weapons, vulnerable to melee, and had no pets. What class were they?

Tanking is an MMO gameplay feature. It needn't impact the depiction of a class. Consider mages- in D&D, not an MMO, I could 'tank' with one of a sufficient level. A few enchantment spells to compell things to attack you, and something like gaseous form would do the trick. My point is, one could implement a tanking gameplay spec without impinging upon how warlocks are portrayed. They can be dark and frail casters with a few mind affecting spells and abilities that make them difficult to hit. Or a false HP pool on top of their own. Or damage redirecting. The possibilities are endless. A tank needn't be a beefcake in plate.

I usually defend Blizzard. In fact, probably 99% of the time I do. But this time I cannot and I will not. I'm allowed to have one thing I irrationally hate.

*cough*rogues*cough*

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Mastery is currently bugged. And Mastery is what gives the Warlock its damage reduction. The Warlock in the video has 99% damage reduction because Mastery dipping is broken atm.The video poster even notes this:

GC also just came out and said that Warlocks are not going to be tanks. There's already massive QQ on the forums because of his announcement.

Oh, ahaha. Was gonna say.

Speaking from a gameplay point of view (and lore, honestly) Ivan's absolutely right.

People think a tanking warlock is "cool" because speaking from a gameplay prespective, it'd make you OP. That's pretty much the jist of it.

This is why Blood Deathknights cannot cast fear -- christ, can you imagine the shitstorm?

Making any ranged class into a tank - let alone a caster tank - would be literally impossible to balance.

Imagine what'd happen if you suddenly gave Frost Mages Blood Presence and turned their mastery into, say, massively increased dmg absorption from Ice Barrier -- can you honestly see that being balanced for PvP, for example?

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I don't get this charge that a gameplay mechanic can violate lore. It's completely abstracted, on a different paradigm. A gameplay innovation only serves to convery narrative and lore in a more enjoyable format. If WoW mages worked like D&D mages and instead had a set number of spells per day instead of mana- this wouldn't harm lore. It would make for shit gameplay, but it doesn't change anything about dalaran and the professionals found there. Does Hunters not having ammunition harm the lore that Sylvannas Windrunner has been depicted with a quiver of arrows before? Of course not. Gameplay is merely the vehicle for us to better enjoy the lore.

That aside, a ranged caster tank is a challenge, but it isn't impossible. Not by a long shot. It would just require an innovative approach; which is what I find appealing in the idea. Just like how Shamans in WoW embodied a completely kind of play, using totems. That was one of the most original gameplay developments Blizzard has actually made to the genre.

To craft a balanced Warlock tank would require a nuanced effort. Obviously you wouldn't just give them blood presence or port in other existing tank abilities.

To be honest, I don't know quite enough about the complex, dare I say messy, web of accumulated counter-balances that is WoW parallel comparative PvP and PvE character builds. That caveat out of the way, I can envisage two ways of doing it. The easiest would be to do something like druid bear form, and simply have a separate form with separate abilities. However, that raises the valid question of 'why bother' is a new gameplay mechanic isn't being added, then it basically is a waste of time. There's no value in that.

The second idea is build a custom system, a unique and fresh approach to tanking. I quite like the idea of involving the link between warlock and minion, probably in the form of HP management. The big concern is that certain CCs like fear, and potent DPS would be OP. Accordingly, you would firstly activate a 'presence' which redirects Intellect and Spirit away from offensive spells, at least to a certain extent, probably enhancing demon armour. As for fearing and kiting as a tank... I think the easiest solution is to have the essential HP management involved in minion-link tanking cost vast amounts of mana. Kind of like the rate energy/focus/rage is expended on non casting classes. Further, have the tanking presences triple (or whatever) regular spells. Finally, counterbalance this brutal mana loss with the ability to suck substantial amounts of mana from the souls of melee range enemies (also putting a minor debuff on them too). The end result would be casting offensive/utility spells would come at the expense of precious scarce mana required for tanking. Casting fear would be counter-intuitive to mana regen.

That's just off the cuff, mind you. Obviously it would require heavy work and balancing. Which, though I like the idea, suggests to me that if Warlock tanking were to ever come, it would not be for a while. Certainly not for MoP; Blizz has a full enough plate as it is (no pun intended).

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