Derathenus

Is the upcoming expansion going to alienate many players?

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I've seen the arguments, and honestly I can see afew of them being valid reasons.

Lets take a look:

-Kung-Fu Panda is what most people will think when they see the Pandaren race. A portion of the WOW playerbase will see this as a huge change to the image of the game. Think about it, they are going from a nearly destroyed world and HP.Lovecraft inspired villains to a colorful, bright, asian inspired land.

-The addition of a pokemon style battle system will further cement the idea that Blizzard has decided to change World of Warcraft's target audience so that it reaches a younger demographic.

Think about it. We have many players used to undead, demons, the horde and the allaince and all that, and suddenly they are introduced to a setting and characters that is much lighter in tone to what has been standard WOW fare. So I wouldn't blame them for feeling alienated. It is not as radical a departure as say, Stargate Universe was to the rest of the genre(action adventure sci-fi turned into soup opera in space), but to many this will seem as a departure nonetheless.

Opinions?

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I would examine the thread about the expansion if you would like to see the opinions some had before the thread was locked due to hot heads and general insults flying back and forth. Then you will get a better understanding at the split this expansion has caused (though I daresay every expansion has had its portion of naysayers).

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1.) Warcraft 3 came out years before Kung Fu Panda. Pandaren are also much, much more than just a monk-based race. There are equal amounts of Pandaren in other roles (Such as the 4 different tribes that are focused on the 4 animal representations of their tribes. Mages, scholars, warriors, ninja-types, monks, ect)

2.) The idea of MoP is that the land is colorful, bright, and happy BEFORE the Horde and Alliance arrive. After we do, shit hits the fan, the Horde and Alliance are killing each other, raping the land of resources, and during this entire time, there are other races native to Pandaria are running amuck, the original race before the Pandaren are breaking out and trying to take shit back over. The Humanoid Insect race is kicking some ass, and worst of all, the Alliance and Horde's conflict is causing this dark, primeval negative force to build up and begin corrupting the people of Pandaria. So when you completely ignore the storyline in favor of an extremely, extremely limited viewpoint ignoring the actual lore, it seems happier than the other expansion. The difference between Cataclysm and MoP is that in Cataclysm, Deathwing destroys Azeroth before we begin trucking around, while in MoP, WE as the Alliance and Horde are the ones actively destroying Pandaria with our conflict. If anything, it's even more realistic than "OH A BUNCH OF THIS SHIT HAPPENED, GO TAKE CARE OF IT"

3.) The Pokemon thing is a side feature, that you don't have to participate in whatsoever, and won't be penalized if you don't. I like Pokemon, and it sounds like a fun side feature to do between raiding wipes, waiting for dungeons, ect. As Ryo pointed in my closed thread, the argument that "Pokemon = Childish" is fallacious.

4.) The "Alliance and Horde and all that" that you mention is being kicked into high gear in MoP, moreso than even Cataclysm if Metzen's comments are any indication.

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Actually, Swerto, the problem with the argument that many of the people like you seem to be implying I am making, is that I am saying "THEREFORE THIS UPCOMING EXPANSION MUST BE AMAZING." I am not, and what you and those who have said something similar in response to me (Not necessarily on TNG) are ignorant of is that what I'm actually doing is providing a logical contrast to the idea of 'lolpandas=bad' without actually offering my actual opinion.

Do you want it?

My opinion is that: I don't know what my personal view of Mists of Pandaria is yet, mainly because there isn't enough information, for me at least, to make an informed opinion. I like many of the features, I am ignorant of some of the other ones. I'm not going to judge whether or not an expansion is a failure based on 1 feature. It'd be like me judging Cataclysm is a failure because I think Archeology was an incredible failure. I don't, I think Cataclysm was fantastic, and while there are lacking end-game elements which annoy me, provided MANY needed changes to the old world.

'Defending' the real life auction house was me actually playing devil's advocate and saying: "It doesn't affect you whatsoever if you don't want to." There's a huge difference, my friend. As I said in my blog regarding that, I am not sure how I feel about that, and that while I understand their point in introducing it, I will not be using it, and therefore I will be 100% unaffected.

'Defending' the 12-month contract was me offering my opinion, as valid as yours is, and nothing more.

Just admit it, you're an addict and you will keep playing this game because you enjoy it.

Actually, and anybody who is actually still playing the game can attest to, I have virtually stopped playing the game out of boredom. Your attempts to delegitimize my opinion for no other reason than it is different from yours makes you look like nothing more than a pretentious child who is offended that anybody dare have an opinion that isn't the same.

The fact of the matter is that you took a preview of an expansion with virtually no information outside of INCREDIBLY generalized form, and wrote off the entire thing.

And now you're defending stupid panda expansion that is a complete letdown. This is Blizzard's followup to Cataclysm? The follow up to big dragon blowing up the world, which was the follow up to wrath, is 'release the pandas'. I don't care of pandaren exist in WoW lore, they're still dumb, and basing an entire expansion around them is stupid.

Please see:

The idea of MoP is that the land is colorful, bright, and happy BEFORE the Horde and Alliance arrive. After we do, shit hits the fan, the Horde and Alliance are killing each other, raping the land of resources, and during this entire time, there are other races native to Pandaria are running amuck, the original race before the Pandaren are breaking out and trying to take shit back over. The Humanoid Insect race is kicking some ass, and worst of all, the Alliance and Horde's conflict is causing this dark, primeval negative force to build up and begin corrupting the people of Pandaria.
but when people complain that they don't like it, don't bitch at them and claim they're bad because they don't like the game you do.

This sentence is ironic because you're doing the exact thing you're trying to condemn me of. Please show me 1 example where I said somebody was bad because they disliked Mists of Pandaria. I'm not that bad of a debater, Swerts, unlike yourself. The only thing I have been doing is defending what I think are unfair criticisms of a game that isn't even in Alpha yet.

At the end of the day, both your and my opinions are just that, opinions. You seem to take an almost personal offense to somebody not sharing the same one as yours, and what I'm doing is arguing why I think the unfair criticisms are that, unfair. That's all I've ever done.

I can play the same game as you, Swerto, here I go *ahems*:

"I understand that you've been playing the game for a long time, and you're tired of it. That's fine, but don't sit there and pretend that the reason you're leaving the game is because of pandas. Anybody with half a brain can see that all you're doing is superimposing your quitting the game on one random, incredibly vague, feature that you've ignored the rest of the story for to justify the fact that you just don't want to say "I'm bored of WoW, and I'm leaving."

I said what I wanted to regarding this subject, and as was mentioned, there is already a thread about people fighting over MoP's idiocy or lackthereof. I merely responded because you decided to launch a series of attacks on me because I don't think MoP will be a complete disaster and that WoW is dead. Before you go into a diatribe, you should probably see if the point you're trying to condemn somebody over is the exact point you're arguing.

Ciao ;)

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Psh.

1: Kung Fu Panda is awesome.

2: Pandaren Brewmaster was a favorite hero of mine in Warcraft 3

And C: Worrying about how "kiddy" something is is extremely immature. Yeah, I listen to Cannibal Corpse and like horror movies, but I also love "kiddy" stuff... like Pokemon for example. Exeggcute forever peeps.

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I never said I left the game because of pandas. I just said this expansion is dumb, now you're putting words in my mouth. I left this game because Blizzard was breaking promises and making design decisions I could not support, I looked at the future of WoW and saw a game I could no longer enjoy. Not to mention I was bored at the time anyways.

You know what would have been a good expansion?

Something to do with Azshara, or Titans, or hell - the burning Legion. All of those would have been a great follow up to Cataclysm, but release the pandas? What a let down. It doesn't flow, at all. None of this is anything people should care about, in the last two expanisons they were fighting to save Azeroth, because if they failed all of Azeroth would be dead/destroyed. Since Vanilla each Expansion has raised the stakes more and more, a new foe arrivng to destroy Azeroth. Now all there's just an Alliance/Horde battle, with no big enemy about to destroy all life. Really, how does this end up being higher level content than the giant dragon who tried to blow up the world. This expansion isn't even as interesting as Burning Crusade. None of this flows, it makes no sense. It's just a stupid direction that is dumb. There is nothing else to it.

You know why people are saying it's Kung Fu Panda? Not because the Pandaren (Which could have made a cameo appearance for all I care), but because they're centralizing the entire expansion in a chinese-based world, with pandas who I'm just waiting to hear scream 'SKADOOSH". It's just laughable, I honestly have no clue what Blizzard is thinking anymore. It's clear the only part of Blizzard still alive and kicking is working on Starcraft, now I just need to wait for them to kill that series and then Blizzard will be officially gone forever.

The time leading up to Cataclysm made it look like Blizzard had a very bright future, that's the thing. The second Cataclysm was announced a lot of people were excited, because this is how you raise the bar. You go back and change what people have been asking to be changed forever. You make a promise to not cater completely to casuals, but at the same time not shut them out from the game. You bring in an enemy we can care about, and raise the stakes. If we fail as heroes, Azeroth is destroyed. Not to mention they started the Alliance/Horde war back up completely, no more cold war bullshit like in Burning Crusade and Wrath.

Then as soon as the expansion starts, we start to notice things before 4.1 is even announced. Blizzard starts canceling things, and breaking promises. They start nerfing raid content, and announce that they're handing out epics for easy-to-earn points and a simple grind, something that they said they weren't going to do (Make epics feel 'Epic' again). But really, that juts annoyed me, I was bored and got out of the game for a while, thinking maybe I'd come back. Then the 4.1 announcement comes, then they announce that they won't be doing a raid for the water plane (I cannot recall it's name), "it's story has run it's course'. Then they release information on 4.3, and what it looks like we're not even going to fight an Old Gold this expansion, so much for the expansion being about Death Wing and the Old Gods. Oh, let's not even get started about the mountain of microtransactions that have been added to this pay-to-play game since cataclysm launched.

Design decision after design decision in WoW has been turning this game around. What once looked like a bright future at the beginning of cataclysm has just left a lot of players, including myself, just laughing. I'm just fed up with Activision all-together at this point. I've just written off Blizzard products as another victim to Activision's factory-style game design.

Woopy.

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As a reminder: anyone is welcome to post their opinions on this or most any other topics. I will not tolerate people calling each other names because they don't agree about what they find entertaining in life.

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Everyone shut up about this stupid crap and let's all take one last stand for Theramore:

Theramore to be destroyed by the Horde in 5.0?

It seems that Theramore will be destroyed by the Horde in the pre-Mists of Pandaria world events, the info was revealed to a couple of taiwanese websites attending a press event with Tom Chilton. Translation from Curll on ScrollsOfLore.

聯盟部落的對立,要如何去強調?

整個戰爭會從潘達利亞的迷霧資料片上市前會啟動世界事件,來強化 聯盟根部落的戰鬥,塞拉摩這城市摧毀讓聯盟 高層非常暴怒,也會以此為契機強化這兩方的戰鬥,未來整個戰鬥會 蔓延在潘達利亞大陸上,部落與聯盟也會在上 面發動許多的戰鬥以及與熊貓人的互動。

Here's the original quote. Let me translate:

The whole war will be ignited during the world event which leading the game into Mist of Pandaria. Theramore will be destroyed and the leaders of Alliance were outrageous at this matter and completely devote themselves into the war, which reach its peak on the continent of Pandaria. The Horde and the Alliance literally fought on the homeland of Pandaria, which pissed the pandarens off.

部落跟聯盟都很喜歡去殺對方的首領,那熊貓人的首領怎麼算?

在潘達利亞大陸上的 npc 多是中立角色,一部分的熊貓人覺得部落跟聯盟帶來厄運,並對它們 帶有敵意,玩家玩的熊貓人是早已脫離潘達利 亞的熊貓人,在等級達到之後選擇加入陣營,所以是沒有首領可以去 扁的。

Most of the pandarens are neutral characters. And some of them thought the Horde and the Alliance only brought doom to their beloved homeland, and have enmity against both factions. The players pandarens are in a different group. They departed Pandaria long ago and choose their own path. They choose their own faction when level 10, so they don't have a faction leader.

'>Source

If this is the beginning to how MoP will be in terms of Alliance vs Horde, I am sold.

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The pandaren was a "joke" made by blizzard in Warcraft. Nothing serious, nothing that is part of the lore.

As far I can see them, they are like the draenei, but worst. They come out of "nowhere". Somewhere in there, I would have expected elves or trolls to know them.

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The pandaren was a "joke" made by blizzard in Warcraft. Nothing serious, nothing that is part of the lore.

As far I can see them, they are like the draenei, but worst. They come out of "nowhere". Somewhere in there, I would have expected elves or trolls to know them.

Not true. I posted an answer to a similar statement over on the Borrowed Time forums

"Initially, the whole concept came from art Samwise Didier, the lead art designer for many of Blizzard's works, as something he did for the birth of his daughter. Beginning in Warcraft 3, he would include hints or easter eggs about them (Illidan's glaives), and then were teased as being a full new race for TFT as an April Fool's Day Joke. People actually liked the idea, however, and they took Didier's initial concepts and turned them into a fully fledged character as Chen Stormstout. While they're no longer considered canon, the RPG books went even deeper, and Chen had a questline in the Barrens based on his involvement with Rexxar during the bonus campaign in TFT.

Since then, it's something players have asked for since the beginning of the game. Blizzard has also said that the pandaren were originally supposed to be the Alliance race instead of the Draenei for TBC, but was changed to better fit with the theme of the expansion. This is something that has been in the works for a long time, not just meant for easter eggs and April Fool's. Thinking that MoP and the pandaren are going to be completely light-hearted compared to past works is a misconception, especially when we haven't seen much of it at all."

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If you guys can't keep it civil, I'll lock this thread. Let me post this *again*

Things you can post:

1.Your opinion about the topic.

2.Debate arguments brought up by people that you disagree with.

Things you can NOT post, and I will delete AND give you an infraction for:

1. Calling other people names

2. Making derisive/sarcastic/non-respectful comments about other people or their opinions.

If you can't tell the difference between these two sets of items, I'd advise not posting.

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I don't think they're so bad after thinking on it. I really like lighthearted stuff (I always have, after all, tended to prefer more lighthearted RP myself), and from what we've seen the pandaren story going on here is lovely while not being overwhelmingly influenced by blizzard's younger audience. I would be very excited for this expansion if I were still a WoWhead (my BF's trying to convince me to come back, and I expect I will at random months in the future to see what's up and so forth), so I hope warcraft's current audience doesn't think too harshly of all this. I believe it could be an interesting concept if executed carefully.

Plus I love the China thing. My absolute FAVORITE holiday during wow was always the Lunar Festival and its clear influence from the real life equivalents.

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Honestly I think Swerto has a point about the broken promises, if anything annoys me about Blizzard it is that.

-Abyssal Maw was previewed on the official cataclysm site if I remember correctly. Something about Neptulon's Trident and the allaince and horde attempting to get their hands on it. It was said to be "an item no mortal should possess". That got me excited. It sounded exciting. Then sometime before patch 4.2 came out they said they had canceled it because "We don't want a deluded fire and water theme for tier 12 armor". I was thinking, "What the hell! Seriously?".

-There was the "epics will be epic again" promise

-The more raid content at launch than any previous expansion(A burning crusade raid model was what they originally were gunning for)

On another note I do agree with Lysimachus and I too love the fact MoP has an asian theme. Ancient and exotic cultures are an interest of mine, which is why one of my favorite games is Civilization.

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I've happily left WoW, more for the fact that I'm dying to play something more sci-fi than fantasy based than any decisions that have been made by Blizz.

However... The Pandaren news is making me get the itch again BIG TIME.

I am obsessed with Kung Fu Panda. It is my favorite movie of all time (I know, I'm a giant 8 year old in a 33 year old man's body). When I'm very sick my wife will put my battered Kung Fu Panda DVD in and let me watch it on repeat as many times as I want. It's my own version of

.

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Ancient and exotic cultures are an interest of mine, which is why one of my favorite games is Civilization.

How are Chinese Cultures anymore ancient or exotic than Mayan/Aztec, Roman/Greek of Antiquity, Scandinavian, or Navajo/Hopi/Apache?

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How are Chinese Cultures anymore ancient or exotic than Mayan/Aztec, Roman/Greek of Antiquity, Scandinavian, or Navajo/Hopi/Apache?

Because for most people, like him, never got history class that touched anything asian like. (or it vaguely did) Thus they see it more "exotic" then the mayans / greek / romans which were overused in history classes. (At least its the case of around here).

But either way, going "asian style" is just saying we lack imagination (or budget*) like I said before.

--------------------------

Pandaren were in lore since W3 if Im not mistaken

It was only a bonus / joke (as said by Anthek and myself) thing just as Cow level was in Diablo 2. They, or rather "it", since there was only 1 of them, had no role in it. It was merely an extra hero to play with for the next mission or simply just there in a hidden location giving the player an item, if found.

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Well by ancient culture I meant ancient china. China dates back to around the same time as the pharoahs ruled ancient egypt, so I think that qualifies as an ancient culture.

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I'm a lot more easy going than the last time I played WoW. Three years ago, I might have jumped on the bandwagon and said it was kiddy stuff and what have ya. I think the best thing to do with this is remember it is a game, and we play games to have fun. Remember, a good roleplayer can adapt to anything. Personally, I like the idea of the Pandarans. I think they (and the monk class) will bring great RP opportunities. The fact that they can be both factions adds even more. Horde Panda says to Alliance Panda. "You killed my teacher! Prepare to defend your honor! Even if you are my brother, I shall now kill you!"

:)

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It was only a bonus / joke (as said by Anthek and myself) thing just as Cow level was in Diablo 2. They, or rather "it", since there was only 1 of them, had no role in it. It was merely an extra hero to play with for the next mission or simply just there in a hidden location giving the player an item, if found.

Yes at first it was a joke, but after such a positive reaction to them they started to implement them into lore. I know there was one panadaren in vanilla WoW. (which was later taken out and you didnt see unless you played from day one) There was also a quest in the barrens(if im not mistaken) were you had to collect gourds left by pandaren brewmasters, or some such.

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How are Chinese Cultures anymore ancient or exotic than Mayan/Aztec, Roman/Greek of Antiquity, Scandinavian, or Navajo/Hopi/Apache?

I'm pretty sure that the Chinese Culture is older than any of the others you mentioned. I don't KNOW that, but I'd bet on it.

China is pretty damn old.

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Yes at first it was a joke, but after such a positive reaction to them they started to implement them into lore. I know there was one panadaren in vanilla WoW. (which was later taken out and you didnt see unless you played from day one) There was also a quest in the barrens(if im not mistaken) were you had to collect gourds left by pandaren brewmasters, or some such.

Don't even bother cowboy. You're not going to win.

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I'm pretty sure that the Chinese Culture is older than any of the others you mentioned. I don't KNOW that, but I'd bet on it.

China is pretty damn old.

We can go even older than that, to the Babylonians, the Sumerians. Hell, Qiraji have Egyptian themes, and that's 4 times older. That wasn't the point man.

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