Aleria Fadeleaf

Night Elves/Cenarian Circle debate

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I once commented, when people were discussing whether or not Shandris would actually kill Garrosh after we realized that she had an "

cannon" (as one of the youtube posters put it), that if Blizzard had someone write a story about it, she'd get defeated by an Orcish bread vendor by virtue of said bread vendor being an Orc.

I am that pessimistic about the direction that they would take another story about the Night Elves, which is why I don't want to see Blizzard put out anything more on them.

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Stories change when the world its in changes. If a character group constantly just stays the same, it gets boring, old, and tired. They're changing just about everything. Sure, might not be the best to some, but its still that same race.

And, being defeated by an orc bread vendor? Ya, please tell me thats a joke.

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Stories change when the world its in changes.

This would be great, I would love to see some manner of change with the night elves. I would most of all love to see Blizzard finally portray Night Elves the way they kept telling us that they were supposed to be, but you know what? I'm not betting on it, because they've let us down every time they've had the chance. In Cataclysm, a little more corruption has been healed, furbolgs are still our enemy, we're still fighting and orcish invasion, our leaders are still functionally absent, our druids are coming up with new and creative ways to secede and (BIG SURPRISE!) we're still losing miserably.

And, being defeated by an orc bread vendor? Ya, please tell me thats a joke.

For about two seconds it was, then I started to think about it.

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Night Elves aren't the only one feeling that sort of pinch, trolls (Darkspear specifically, trolls in generally can be over done), and Tauren are still abit absent with leaders, and other things. It sounds more like your concern is story telling in-game, which, can be hard to balance, it's an mmo after all, it actually does take alot of work.

And don't forget, like the trolls, Night Elves are no longer the strong power they used to be. They got knocked off their high pedestal ages ago, and either by choice, or neglect, never really went farther along. That seems more of their social background if anything, but not in terms of a weakness. They had their time in the sun, and now they have to contend with newer races as well, and having to take down those judgements they have based on their age and past history. If they were again at the height of their power they'd be well...kinda boring.

And on the Orcs? I think you just like to play that card abit too much. No offence, but its getting really stale.

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Yeah screw the Orcs, at least they've lost some battles.

If you wanna look at an unstoppable Horde faction, look at the Forsaken. They literally win every battle they take place in. Sure they are pushed out of Gilneas proper, but they pretty much destroy the entire place during the short occupancy.

Blizzard's biggest hardons are for Sylvanas and Arthas, and now the second is dead, so they need to ramp it up for the Forsaken.

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And don't forget, like the trolls, Night Elves are no longer the strong power they used to be. They got knocked off their high pedestal ages ago, and either by choice, or neglect, never really went farther along. That seems more of their social background if anything, but not in terms of a weakness. They had their time in the sun, and now they have to contend with newer races as well, and having to take down those judgements they have based on their age and past history. If they were again at the height of their power they'd be well...kinda boring.

Blizzard hasn't been doing this though. Instead, they've been saying "Oh yeah, they're really powerful and stuff! They have druids and warriors who have trained for thousands of years! They beat the legion twice! They have devilishly impressive strategy! Yes, they're REALLY, REALLY powerful!". Then, two seconds later, an Orc will show up and tear though this supposedly powerful military as if it were tinfoil (pun intended...).

While I'm afraid that they'll end up doing this soon, if Blizzard wants to say that we're in decline, then they need to stop spewing all of this bull!@#$ and actually declare that we're as weak and pathetic as the battle history suggests, and get fast and furious with the retcons.

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I think...you're kinda being unrealistic with your views of Night Elves...

If they were that powerful (and I don't see what Blizzard has said about them being even a hairs breath of what you've said, but that could be your writing), then why the hell would their society be the way it is, and why the hell would anyone want to play them? Don't forget, they were weakened when they lost the world tree (if thats something you're mentioning as well with the Blizzard bits), and no where does it say their weak and pathetic. They're just used to a status quo that was relevant a thousand years ago, not today. Thats an actual disadvantage of being an immortal race, you don't evolve or change with the times and with history.

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Where are they saying that they're all super powerful?

If anything they're emphasizing the decline of the Night Elven society through multiple sources (Corrupt leadership of Staghelm, the loss of immortality because of the World Tree)

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Kaledorei are super powerful. Their military is occupied in Hyjal, saving the world. The elves left defending Ashenvale are largely militia and civilians. That is partly why Garrosh attacked Ashenvale when he did, because etheir armies were elsewhere. The Kaledorei army is also taking heavy losses in their battle against ragnaros. We will see the full might of the Kaledorei, or I suspect we will, in 4.2.

Blizzard has little excuse however for turning the Kaledorei into what they are from what they were in WC3. Now admittably the Kaledorei in WC3 wern't as powerful or strong as the Horde or Alliance when you looked at the big picture, they were an army that was mostly added for story purposes and to add another diverse army with a distinct flavour.

HOWEVER there is a big difference between what we saw of the Kaledori during WC3 and what they are now, and there is virtually no excuse for it. Even if they are a smaller force where are their walking buildings? Where are all the things that made them great? The Kaledorei lost their immortality to Archimondes attack but they were not de-powered. Since WoW began there has been a long bias against the alliance, of the blues losing strength, coolness and territory to make up for the hordes original state of weakness.

This is bad because it means the Horde just take from alliance what makes the allies speacial INSTEAD of the Devs coming up with NEW cool things for the horde to be proud of. Alliance are the dudes with submarines, to combat this now the HORDE get submarines? Remember in WC2 Tides? When the Horde did not have submarines but instead HUGE TURTLES WITH CANNONS on their backs? Or how the alliance had elven archers and the horde threw axes. Or how the warlocks of GulDan were offset by Clerics. Or the powerful mounted paladins of the alliance were countered by death knights. The alliance used to corner the market on Tech and to compensate the horde improvised in alot of cool ways, same with magic. Now everything is stupid, the horde get all the tech and magic the alliance have traditionally wielded in lore INSTEAD of blizzard coming up with new things for the horde to have.

If you analyze warcraft in this way, you will see a steady decilne of alliance (and some horde) originality. It is unsatidfying and takes away from the "magic" of a fantasy universe. The Kaledorei are the latest victims of this trend, with all the things that made them awesome in WC3 suddenly absent, to explain why the orcs are steamrolling them in the Kaledorei zones.

As someone who has played all the way through ashenvale on both sides of the story I have to say I am very dissapointed. The grand sum of the night elf tactics is to stand in the way of rampaging kodo, run around aimlessly killing peons, and to throw rocks. Every peice of magic, tactics and technology which made them great in WC3 is suddenly missing, and they die like flies to an unorganized slavering mass of murderers.

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Uhh...it isn't the Night Elves who are defending Hyjal, it's the Guardians of Hyjal, which are primarily Druids. From both sides.

It's pretty much just the Cenarion Circle renamed for Cataclysm.

The Night Elves' army, if they even have one, certainly isn't what is in Hyjal. Not to mention there aren't massive Hyjal armies fighting against Ragnaros anyway. It's a relatively select few of Druids, their protectors, and the adventurers who are using the Demigods to fight against Ragnaros and Deathwing.

Also...when were the Night Elves super powerful in Warcraft 3? I dont see that anywhere either. Honestly, they seemed like a much smaller faction when compared to the Alliance and Horde, but their benefit was knowledge of the land and the Super Saiyan Malfurion.

Again...in 4.2, it's not going to be the Night Elves' army, it's going to be the Guardians of Hyjal/Cenarion Circle. There's a reason that Hamuul Runetotem is one of the three people during the quest to fight Ragnaros. Because this isn't a faction-based issue, the Guardians have both Night Elves and Horde (Because it's a primarily druid organization)

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The way I see it, the Cenarion Circle can be seen in two ways.

A. A branch of Kal'dorei society which has taken to accepting druids of other races to further their cause. They are neutral, but the organization is mostly Night Elven, (unless there are those who seriously believe that the Horde can scrape up just as many trained Tauren druids in seven to ten short years compared with the amount that an already druidic society had produced in ten-thousand) and while it won't necessarily follow Darnassian marching orders (I would say because the leadership confides a great deal of trust in them), they are still Darnassian.

B. Another freaking country (which Hordecentric posters seem to prefer), which ran off with Moonglade, Hyjal, Felwood, Tyrande's husband, the remaining Watchers, and a significant chunk of the Night Elves' cultural identity. If that's the case, from a lore standpoint, why would anyone want to play a Night elf? Your purpose for being just gave you the bird, called you an extremist, and left you to the wolves.

Also...when were the Night Elves super powerful in Warcraft 3?

They weren't uber-powerful, but if you played through the campaigns, you could see that you were coming up against something formidable. Grom will even call them perfect warriors if he's near death in "the Spirits of Ashenvale". Mannoroth believes that the Orcs wouldn't stand a chance without demonic blood coursing through their veins, and Blizzard makes it no secret that the legion is afraid of the elves (except for Tichondrius of course, but we know what happens to him). The fact that they get their own playable faction (with the best siege unit save for the Frost Wyrm in the game I will add) shows as well that they were supposed to be able to hold their own. The problem is that even then, they score zero consequential victories against the Horde. The two real chances we get to fight orcs and humans come in the first mission and the third, and even then, the victory was either meaningless, or a means to an end where the Horde was just in the way.

In World of Warcraft, especially in Cataclysm, the problem is the same, but far worse. It's not just that we can't score a consequential victory, we get defeated soundly, and embarrassingly nearly every time we come up against the Horde. The Night elves have no significant gains in land that are in any way comparable to what the Horde gets, and our quests are just plain depressing. The Alliance in general has been completely sidelined and marginalized in this expansion, and Ashenvale's questing is one are where that really comes out. At least in Wrath the Horde had their own story in the background.

Inb4 "Aleria's just nuts", I am by no means the only person who has been saying this: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2186018660

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The Night Elves' army, if they even have one

See the new Feathermoon Stronghold, and the badass that is General Shandris Feathermoon, General of the Sentinel Army.

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I demand that Blizzard make Trolls the most powerful, because they are the one race that had the largest empires of all of them.

But then, theres a difference between game balancing, and lore balancing, which people are forgetting.

And WC3 =/= WoW.

Every campaign, of every race in WC3 was played to be 'the best'. There are times where the humans will remark about the orcs that they're unstoppable, or that the Forsaken are a serious menace. What you're seeings is a problem with writing one type of game (RTS) to then be included into a MMO.

Now, does that mean thats an excuse for some things, no. But its unreasonable to expect them to be incredibly power, as they displayed in WC3. If that were the case, then it would have taken alot more to defeat the Burning Legion in the Burning Crusade content (which really, they weren't the main focus of that expansion anyways, and theres only one major fight with someone from them, in the Sunwell), or we'd have an incredibly hard time with the Lich King in Wrath.

The one thing I do wish to see, as Mar mentioned, was those gigantic tree creatures again. I think there is only, 2 or 3 in game total.

Oh, and trolls being the best. Get on that please.

In World of Warcraft, especially in Cataclysm, the problem is the same, but far worse. It's not just that we can't score a consequential victory, we get defeated soundly, and embarrassingly nearly every time we come up against the Horde.

Then that shows that if they were 'defeated' in WC3, and in WoW, then they must not have been as ultimately powerful as they were written, and people feel they should be.

The Night elves have no significant gains in land that are in any way comparable to what the Horde gets, and our quests are just plain depressing.

Because territorial expansions are not part of Night Elf nature. They aren't a conquering people, or a forceful one. They're reactive, and positive, one thing I like about them.

The Alliance in general has been completely sidelined and marginalized in this expansion, and Ashenvale's questing is one are where that really comes out. At least in Wrath the Horde had their own story in the background.

This is oh, so very much, not true at all.

And again, the expansions not even done yet, calm down.

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Then that shows that if they were 'defeated' in WC3, and in WoW, then they must not have been as ultimately powerful as they were written, and people feel they should be.

I should clarify the point, because we clearly did defeat the legion in Warcraft 3.

When I mention consequential victories, I mean in regard to the Horde. Blizzard has gone out of their way to show that we are great against non-horde opponents, but whenever an orc enters the equation, all bets are off. So, for example in Warcraft 3, as the Night Elves you fight the Horde twice, none of those victories really means much in the larger picture. In WoW, we defeat the Shatterspear trolls and drive the Orcs back in several key areas of Ashenvale, but it doesn't mean anything, it has little to no net effect on the Horde's offensive. Meanwhile, when the Horde attacks the Night Elves, there is SIGNIFICANT and noticeable effect.

Because territorial expansions are not part of Night Elf nature. They aren't a conquering people, or a forceful one. They're reactive, and positive, one thing I like about them.

The Night Elves have been fighting over Ashenvale for years. It is their ancestral home, and they want it back, all of it back. Instead, Blizzard has given entire questing zones to the Horde, phased-in bombings, and given the Horde a lot of new territory there. The Night Elves, by contrast, take back parts of the Warsong Lumber camp, and that's it. If we completely razed the lumber camp, and actually had some victories in the region that could compare with the Horde's, I wouldn't have this problem, but Blizzard went out of their way to make the conflict lopsided in favor of the Orcs.

This is oh, so very much, not true at all.

And again, the expansions not even done yet, calm down.

It's just about the general consensus on World of Warcraft's story forums. The post I linked was a notable example, but it is only -one- example. I am also not optimistic for the rest of the expansion. 4.2 is going to be a parade of secessionist elves defeating Ragnaros, and everything else is going to be focused on raid content. I seriously doubt that Blizzard is going to make the war progress, and if they do, it's going to be heavily in favor of the Horde if their actions so far may be used as a baseline.

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They weren't uber-powerful, but if you played through the campaigns, you could see that you were coming up against something formidable. Grom will even call them perfect warriors if he's near death in "the Spirits of Ashenvale". Mannoroth believes that the Orcs wouldn't stand a chance without demonic blood coursing through their veins, and Blizzard makes it no secret that the legion is afraid of the elves (except for Tichondrius of course, but we know what happens to him). The fact that they get their own playable faction (with the best siege unit save for the Frost Wyrm in the game I will add) shows as well that they were supposed to be able to hold their own. The problem is that even then, they score zero consequential victories against the Horde. The two real chances we get to fight orcs and humans come in the first mission and the third, and even then, the victory was either meaningless, or a means to an end where the Horde was just in the way.

a.) Being the "perfect warriors" doesn't mean your army is gigantic or extremely powerful.

b.) Mannoroth is specifically talking about Grom killing the demigod Cenarius, not the entirety of the Night Elves in general.

c.) They're afraid of the Night Elves because they were wtfpwned during the War of the Ancients. The difference is that the thousand years between then and now have seen Night Elven culture and people reduced by a sizable amount (With the Naga and High Elves now gone from the faction)

d.) Warcraft 3=/=WoW

Regarding the Guardians of Hyjal/Cenarion Circle. It doesn't matter if the Night Elves make up more of it than the Tauren, they're still not a Night Elven specific faction. Their forces aren't defending Night Elven or Tauren lands, they're defending Druidic culture and lands (Such as Hyjal and defeating Ragnaros). Granted Night Elves have "druidic" lands and culture but, like I said, they're neutral. Do I think that if all the threats were defeated that the Night Elves might see their forces increased some? Yes, just like how Thassarian is now back in the Alliance proper instead of the Neutral Knights of the Ebon Blade/Ashen Verdict.

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I actually think Aleria is right and on to something. I also like Maurdakar's post which I feel is just being vastly over looked cause the faction that did consist of mostly Night elves his now a neutral faction. This neutral faction took one of the very key leaders of the Night elves and placed him in a neutral setting, so he isn't available to actually help against the horde encroachment in Ashenvale. I believe in his post cause I believe a lot of night elven army or forces are preoccupied with Cenarion Circle goals cause most of the Night elven population was druidic. Wouldn't that mean pretty much the sentinels are the only ones really protecting Kal'dorei interests and is pretty much reflected in game through questing?

From what I can tell in game Kal'dorei pretty much get owned via gameplay for us players cause their army gets split so we can play with massive druid story plot lines. Feathermoon is pretty much much all the Kal'dorei forces that will oppose the horde, and what are the mostly composed of? Sentinels haha oh and a few Worgen returning the favor for saving them joined the fight, and not a large regime of druids in sight to help.

I have thought this story retarded since before Cata was released and thought it even more crap when Worgen story line was dropped and handed to forsaken. If you haven't read the poster of the link Aleria put up...its very much my shared thoughts of Cata so far. Am I trying to be optimistic? Yeah but 4.2 is just a bunch of neutral faction crap, and more troll crap with the fall of almost every tribe now beside the Darkspear (which you can say is more positive story telling for trolls, Darkspear will be the reining champs of trolldum with the Zandalari defeated). No new Worgen story arc continuation, Orcs losing ground or even Forsaken losing ground. Which is one point I will agree with Necroxis about is that the Sylvanas and the Forsaken are a retarded warmachine now. (thanks blizz for making the trek to Undercity or SM overly elongated cause Forsaken had to take Southshore)

I want to see some alliance settlements branch up into northern eastern kingdoms and not get steamrolled like Adorhal did. Also see some conflict with the horde hierarchy going on in later patches then see this neutral firelands crap. I mean come on who ever posted the link about the flavor quests article of Garrosh's leadership, is on the right track. I want to see more story like that in game, and pretty sure a lot more people want to see more Horde, and Alliance story development then the many neutral conflicts in upcoming patches.

And Jeedup the trolls are trying to remake the lasting almighty empire. But beside the Darkspear trolls, trolls in general lore wise never shared interests at all with other races but themselves, and always been reflected as mercenaries in the RTS games. Thus they always become villians or a faction for us players to beat down. I am betting if the Zandalari didn't wait till every tribe got their asses handed to them the first time, in separate occasions, then they would have been a force to be reckoned with when they organize them together in 4.1. But its something trolls and Kal'dorei vastly don't share, both are traditional, xenophobic, but besides the Darkspear they are not excepting of help. While the Kal'dorei do have a society shift in, as a whole race, accepting and joining the alliance forces. This leads the trolls on a downward spiral, while the Night elves have potential for their society to grow from their thousand year old traditions. I am rooting for the Darkspears cause they are the only tribe I see hope in.

And a final note, Warcraft 1-3 and all xpacks...does equal World of Warcraft, its the fricken root material and lore of the WoW universe and the IP it orginially drew off of. The only time that changes is when the retcon crap, aka Draenei oops

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Regarding the Guardians of Hyjal/Cenarion Circle. It doesn't matter if the Night Elves make up more of it than the Tauren, they're still not a Night Elven specific faction. Their forces aren't defending Night Elven or Tauren lands, they're defending Druidic culture and lands (Such as Hyjal and defeating Ragnaros). Granted Night Elves have "druidic" lands and culture but, like I said, they're neutral. Do I think that if all the threats were defeated that the Night Elves might see their forces increased some? Yes, just like how Thassarian is now back in the Alliance proper instead of the Neutral Knights of the Ebon Blade/Ashen Verdict.

All right, so you've taken option B.

So tell me, just how does Option B make any sense?

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Personally what I say is simple: If you do not believe that the Alliance is getting seriously shafted in this expansion, then I challenge you to play both sides as I have, and use your level 85 to grind out all the cataclysm quests for both factions, starting zones included. The alliance has far more signifigant losses, what they do take is reactionary to repelling invasion.

-The Worgen get a major shaft after their starting zone, unlike the goblins who are now signifigant players. More accuratly the worgen do not have lore specific towns or quest but are now amply scatterd throughout alliance forces. (what happened to the draenei and the bloodelves but at least they got their time in the sun)

-The humans invade the barrens only as a reaction to the ashenvale invasion and the destruction of gilneas.

-The Kaledorei are suddenly made into punching bags. Their massive army does basically nothing, I only hope it WILL be used. Hopefully Tyrandes story will address some of these issues.

On the positive side, the story is really really good. The Horde solidifes itself as a somewhat evil and destructive force in the world once again, and the somewhat good guys are pressed into a defensive on all sides. Ultimatly this is what matter, the story, and its good.

Please, let us not do this HERE. This thread is for the leader stories, and we got VOLJIN coming up people.

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Even going so far as saying WC3 doesn't equal WoW when it was just used as a reference point and not a comparison in my eyes.

I also apologize for any jumping back and forth between sentences haha. I literally was going on staying up 20+ hours straight and trying to get everything from my head to the post, and most of the time after stuff became irrelevant. And while I hate to pull a card I have seen Aleria use but, out of my whole post you comment on the posts structure and that you are not "bashing". No where have you come back to say "Hmm maybe the Night elves have lost a relative amount of military force to the Cenarion Circle." Nor did you disagree with me on the matter. So many times I see that as the reason why these discussion turn into this:

a.) Being the "perfect warriors" doesn't mean your army is gigantic or extremely powerful.

b.) Mannoroth is specifically talking about Grom killing the demigod Cenarius, not the entirety of the Night Elves in general.

c.) They're afraid of the Night Elves because they were wtfpwned during the War of the Ancients. The difference is that the thousand years between then and now have seen Night Elven culture and people reduced by a sizable amount (With the Naga and High Elves now gone from the faction)

d.) Warcraft 3=/=WoW

Where it becomes the game of here are my rebuttal points, pick one so thus I can yell back at you for ignoring the points you did not mention.

To bite: Being the perfect warrior, helps, it will not make your armies vastly superior in number but to think the armies of a thousand year experienced Sentinels and Druids are not some formidable force is just silly. Also with Cenarius back with Mount Hyjal you would think a old hero of the Night Elves would support Night Elven interests, but yet again he is confined to a neutral faction. I can not come back on b and c cause right now I would have to either research or play the orc campaign again to see specifics about Mannoroth's conversation. But needless to say if Cenarius decided to help the night elves in Ashenvale like he once did, if he wasn't wrapped up in Mount Hyjal, and the orcs were without demon blood to counter him this time the orcs would be hard pressed.

I just think the Night Elves after looking at all this information suffer a lot from the conversion to the gameplay in WoW. Only one of their actual heroic champion units is present to fight for them being Tyrande and her moon priestesses.

-The demon hunters were most likely defected to Illidian beside a few in the Burning Crusade

-Keepers of the Grove or Cenarius's ilk are preoccupied with Cenarion Circle issues and so are a vast majority of druids of the night elven population. (Druids of the Talon being one that you can probably say are tied up with the Cenarion Circle and their ancient)

-Wardens...you never really see but looked like a lot were used to guard Fandal.

Is this what you mean by the night elven military forces have dwindled or weakened? This is just one way I see it. I feel bad Blizzard has the Kal'dorei military force suffer cause the want to wrap us into a storyline for Firelands.

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Its not that WC3 doesn't equal WoW, its that the writing of it is based differently. Every single player campaign will make that singular race, the most powerful. Also that 'armies' and such, don't translate in well in a game that ALL you're doing is building armies, while the other can include most of the rest of the social elements as well.

And ya, the Cenarian Circle is a joint group with Night Elves, Tauren, and now Trolls and Worgen. The Night elves may be the older of the druids (I can't recall if Blizzard ever stated WHEN Tauren started being Druids, source anyone?), but it is a coalition, council, not more of one or the other.

aaaaaand...

Personally what I say is simple: If you do not believe that the Alliance is getting seriously shafted in this expansion, then I challenge you to play both sides as I have, and use your level 85 to grind out all the cataclysm quests for both factions, starting zones included. The alliance has far more signifigant losses, what they do take is reactionary to repelling invasion.

I am/did, and I still say, they're both even. They're both being written -differently-, and they will both have their own flavor. And again, expansion ain't over bub. Maybe Wyrnn opens a can of whoopass? Maybe Thrall comes back and ball-punches Garrosh? Maybe they all sit down and smoke a peace pipe, therefore ending the game?

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I am/did, and I still say, they're both even. They're both being written -differently-, and they will both have their own flavor. And again, expansion ain't over bub. Maybe Wyrnn opens a can of whoopass? Maybe Thrall comes back and ball-punches Garrosh? Maybe they all sit down and smoke a peace pipe, therefore ending the game?
I disagree on the even argument, because it takes so much spin to prove it. It usually comes down to "Oh, it's implied" or "It just didn't make it into the phasing" or "Blizzard just didn't have enough time to demonstrate the full effect". In terms of the war, I say that the Alliance is firmly losing on just about every front.

What is even worse, however, is how the Alliance is being robbed of a purpose and a story. There is nothing uniquely Alliance about the Alliance anymore, because all of the iconic parts of their society (the light for the humans, druidism for the Night Elves, the magical city of Dalaran) have been torn out and made neutral, to the point where, notably in the case of the Cenarion Circle, the culture could be said to have seceded and made its own country. The Horde has a direction, it's going somewhere, it has a purpose, it has a story. The Alliance? All they have going for them is "we're not Horde." They're just kind of there.

As for the future, yeah, it's possible that Blizzard will make things better for the Alliance. But it is also possible that they will make things worse, and based on the way things have been presented so far, if I were to bet, I would bet that Blizzard will make things worse.

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The Alliance? All they have going for them is "we're not Horde." They're just kind of there.

How do you figure this?

The Humans are dealing with increased poverty and large numbers of poor as Varian increases the War effort across Azeroth.

The Dwarves are barely keeping themselves out of a civil war. There's tons of story that goes along with that (The death of Magni, Moira's forceful taking of the throne and barring Ironforge off from the world)

The Gnomes have reclaimed the upper part of Gnomeregan and are working to reclaim the rest of it. They managed to find a cure for radiated Gnomes/ect

The Night Elves are dealing with the Cataclysm as their homes are being increasingly taken by the Horde/ectect.

The Worgen definitely have story going on in obvious ways

The only race that really isn't doing anything is the Draenei.

I completely agree that the Horde have overwhelmingly won the amount of skirmishes with the Alliance that they have been in, and I dislike it too. I was hoping for Varian to begin pushing into Lordaeron at some point, but all we had was Andorhal which we lose and then it's over.

However, to say that the Alliance doesn't have any driving story is false.

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I think have found the problem with your stance Aleria with your issues against the Horde, and how you feel the Alliance is given 'less'.

Horde = A country/centralized government. Multiple races (and two, maybe one race as a territorial ally. See: Forsaken), under one ruler. Separate cultures and peoples inside it, surely, but still ruled by the 'law of the Warchief'.

Alliance = Allied group of separate nations. Each with their own ruler, their own laws defining them. COMPLETELY different. There really is nothing 'completely Alliance', because the Alliance is just the group.

If they EVER unify all of the Alliance races into one singular group (like the Horde), THAT would be the nail in the coffin for them, as this structure has been their entire existence since the first inception.

And in looking back with actual war from Alliance versus The Horde, The Horde traditionally, have always lead in the beginning parts of the wars. The Burning of Stormwind, the initial occupation of the Wetlands, but then half way through is their usual turning point. Some political action will cause a lull in activity, a singular loss, and then the Alliance, usually with new allies (Worgen, anyone?), will make a push foward. Now I doubt the 'war' (I still don't see this as one, YET), will end in a 'loss' (IE- The Horde surrendering), only as it would make zero sense for game mechanics. A stalemate may happen, and I'd be interested in seeing how they write that.

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To respond to Necroxis's post, there are three things that I consider.

REASONABLE UNIQUENESS: If a story, or an element to a larger story, is not reasonably unique, you can't count it. Hyjal, for example, would violate the constraint of reasonable uniqueness because that is entirely a Cenarion questline. Both the Horde and the Alliance can do it. Note that this does not apply to say, the Hand of Vengeance in Northrend. Just because it is part of a nonunique story (the scourgewar) doesn't mean that this particular element is not unique.

PROACTIVITY: The faction must initiate an action, a goal, or a theme. They cannot simply react to someone else's actions, goals, or themes. That reaction may instead be considered as a part of the initiating party's story, not the reacting party. So, for example, if the Horde bombs Astraanar, and the Night Elves put out the fires, the action of putting out the fires is reactionary, and therefore violates the constraint of proactivity. If, however, the Night Elves began to open theatres of combat where previously, the Horde did not consider having to fight the other side, (such as the Alliance offensive in the Southern Barrens) then the action does not violate the constraint of proactivity.

MATERIALITY: This is more of an accounting term, but materiality addresses the question of "does it matter?". If an action does not have an impact on the greater world, then the action may be considered to be so insignificant that it may have well not happened at all. This also applies to actions which return to, or strongly resemble the status quo at their conclusion.

Each of these three tests must be met before I consider a story. So let's go down the list...

The Humans are dealing with increased poverty and large numbers of poor as Varian increases the War effort across Azeroth.

This violates the constraint of materiality. It returns Westfall to what it was before the Cataclysm, and it is centered entirely on Westfall.

The Dwarves are barely keeping themselves out of a civil war. There's tons of story that goes along with that (The death of Magni, Moira's forceful taking of the throne and barring Ironforge off from the world)

Again, materiality. Internal political strife with no end in sight, and no defined goal currently has no effect on the outside world.

The Gnomes have reclaimed the upper part of Gnomeregan and are working to reclaim the rest of it. They managed to find a cure for radiated Gnomes/ect

Materiality.

The Night Elves are dealing with the Cataclysm as their homes are being increasingly taken by the Horde/ectect.

Dealing with the Cataclysm violates the constraint of reasonable uniqueness. Everyone is dealing with the Cataclysm and fighting the twilights. Their campaign against the Orcs violates the constraint of proactivity, because every single one of their actions is a reaction to the Horde's story.

The Worgen definitely have story going on in obvious ways

Of course the Worgen have a story. It is unique, it has aspects of proactivity, and it is material. However, I would point out that Alliance players don't actually get to see half of it. If you played a Worgen, your experience ends at level 14, then picks up for a brief second in Shadowfang keep. Then you're asking questions like "Who is Ivar Bloodfang? Why is Godfrey undead? WTF is going on?"

More to the point, the bulk of the Alliance story is immaterial. The Horde get the lion's share of the storytelling, not counting stories attributable to neutral organizations. Compare that to Wrath where, yes, the Alliance get most of the storytelling, but the Horde also has something going for it as well. Cataclysm? Not so much for the Alliance, in fact, barely anything at all.

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How is defending against an action not considered part of a storyline? That makes no sense at all. Not to mention that "materiality" is completely subjective in the case of whether or not something in the lore is important, so just tossing aside all of my arguments and going "Well it doesn't matter" because it suits your argument is a pointless thing to even add.

This violates the constraint of materiality. It returns Westfall to what it was before the Cataclysm, and it is centered entirely on Westfall.

It does? Westfall was never as bad as it is in Cataclysm. Not even close. How about the Alliance coming in and completely destroying the Forsaken and pushing them out of Gilneas. I'm going to guess "Reactionary" because it doesn't fit in with your argument.

Again, materiality. Internal political strife with no end in sight, and no defined goal currently has no effect on the outside world

No affect on the outside world? A faction of Dark Irons joining the Alliance? The leader of the Dwarves dying?

Materiality.

Subjective.

Dealing with the Cataclysm violates the constraint of reasonable uniqueness. Everyone is dealing with the Cataclysm and fighting the twilights. Their campaign against the Orcs violates the constraint of proactivity, because every single one of their actions is a reaction to the Horde's story.

Really? Because you could say that Garrosh using the Cataclysm as a means to attack an enemy is a violation of reasonable uniqueness because the Alliance does the exact same thing, something you yourself admitted.

Of course the Worgen have a story. It is unique, it has aspects of proactivity, and it is material. However, I would point out that Alliance players don't actually get to see half of it. If you played a Worgen, your experience ends at level 14, then picks up for a brief second in Shadowfang keep. Then you're asking questions like "Who is Ivar Bloodfang? Why is Godfrey undead? WTF is going on?"

So it's discounted because...why again?

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