Hifazat

Website that covers storyline of quests

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If you do not want quest spoilers from the new Shattering quests do not read below. Specifically after the third paragraph as I discuss Quests in Ashenvale and such.

Basically I enjoy reading the quest lines more than actually doing the quests. The lore is interesting for one and since the shattering there is a lot more going on in game than say quests that are 5 years old.

I was wondering if anybody knew a website which covered the storyline of each zone from a faction perspective? Meaning a website which summarized the quests of a zone and gave a general idea of what that faction is doing in the zone and what tasks players have to complete.

I just started Ashenvale and I am finding the quests intriguing, but its all one sided. If nobody knows of such a website, could someone answer a few questions regarding horde activity in Ashenvale?

1. How did you guys get Silverwind Refuge?

2. The bomb being built in Silverwind by the Goblins - why? Other than it being fun to blow stuff up but whats the logic behind that huge bomb. Any in character reasoning from the horde perspective?

3. Got any quests to kill Night Elf NPCs - Well duh bet you do as we have the same for the horde. Whats the logic given to kill the Night Elves?

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The reasons are pretty simple. Horde need lumber and Garrosh doesn't give two shits about peace.

The Horde needs lumber? You'd better tell that to the Krom'gar incinerators who are torching the forests in the Stonetalon mountains.

... and to the Forsaken, as well as their vast forestlands that they don't seem to be using.

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Swerto.

Yes. The Forsaken totally do have huge forests, but they hate orcs and it would be a bitch to transport.

Eh, I kind of disagree on the transportation part. In Warcraft three, you could haul two siege engines around with those things, and when you factor in the double-ballooned variants, I don't see why the Horde can't make their lumber problems dissapear in eight to ten business days.

Edited by Aleria Fadeleaf
replaced tanks with engines... someone would otherwise jump on me...

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What huge forests?

Oh you mean Silverpine and The Plaugelands?

You'd call those forests?

Based on the game models (read that twice, just so you know what I'm talking about), they all look decrepit, and decaying, and in The Plaugelands, they also could be contaminated. And well, termite problems.

And since as mentioned numerous times before, The Forsaken lands aren't FULLY Horde lands, though after Wrathgate, a re-evaluation of the Hordes control of that land may change. But again, that looks like really unhealthy wood.

Like Rethius.

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What huge forests?

Oh you mean Silverpine and The Plaugelands?

You'd call those forests?

Based on the game models (read that twice, just so you know what I'm talking about), they all look decrepit, and decaying, and in The Plaugelands, they also could be contaminated. And well, termite problems.

And since as mentioned numerous times before, The Forsaken lands aren't FULLY Horde lands, though after Wrathgate, a re-evaluation of the Hordes control of that land may change. But again, that looks like really unhealthy wood.

Like Rethius.

Eh, I'm not concerned too much about the health of the wood, so long as the wood is strong, and the two are not the same. In Warcraft 3, you not only could use the blighted wood, in some cases you were forced to use it, and it worked just fine.

The status of the land is a more pertinent problem, but that's where trade comes in. A trade deal with the forsaken would secure the lumber in exchange for manufactured goods, including weapons, and by so doing, improve the economic situation of both countries.

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Health of the wood DOES matter. In the real world (MIND BOGGLING), if you use already aged wood (dead wood), it will continue to splinter, become weaker after cutting, and could contain micro-organisms and parasites that could continue any rot already started. This would be pointless to use. Healthy, but infected wood, can continue contamination if you're working with other sources as well in your final product (boats, buildings, ect). Why bother if it's already weakened, regardless of large supply?

Either way, it doesn't matter. Horde (Orcs atleast) have found a steady, readily available supply close to their capital.

Plus, the Alliance made them do it anyways.

Not to mention the Night Elves can easily regrow their own, having some of the more knowledgeable Druids and herbalists in Azeroth. Whiners.

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Health of the wood DOES matter. In the real world (MIND BOGGLING), if you use already aged wood (dead wood), it will continue to splinter, become weaker after cutting, and could contain micro-organisms and parasites that could continue any rot already started. This would be pointless to use. Healthy, but infected wood, can continue contamination if you're working with other sources as well in your final product (boats, buildings, ect). Why bother if it's already weakened, regardless of large supply?

Like I said, you can use the blighted wood in Warcraft III, and this fact must be reconciled. Blighted wood also may not have the same characteristics of aged or dead wood. I'd also like to see where it is stated that lumber from harvested trees can extend the blight to other sources.

Either way, it doesn't matter. Horde (Orcs atleast) have found a steady, readily available supply close to their capital.

Steadily? Readily available? You completely discount political risk with your analysis, which is a known killer for foreign direct investment. This is true because when you come down to it, no one wants to see their investments go completely up in flames. The overreaching fact that you've missed however, is that Ashenvale is the sovereign territory of the Kal'dorei. You can't claim something that belongs to soemone else as your supply.

Plus, the Alliance made them do it anyways.

If you are discussing Admiral Proudmoore:

No one who knew about what was going on on the Alliance side supported that. He was acting on his own, with no official sanction. I'm sorry, but the Alliance cannot be held responsible for that.

If you are discussing the Night elves' decision to cut off trade:

From an economic perspective, yes, the Night Elves should not have done this, but let us remember also that the Orcs are not entitled to the resources of Ashenvale. Just as if I need to eat, I am not entitled to break into a supermarket, kill the people who come to stop me, and just take what I want.

Not to mention the Night Elves can easily regrow their own, having some of the more knowledgeable Druids and herbalists in Azeroth. Whiners.

In other words: The Night Elves should be slaves to the orcish people because the Orcs want lumber? I'm sorry, but I don't see that as reasonable. The world does not revolve around the Orc, and if the Orc wants what's in Ashenvale, then they should learn to be friends with the Elf.

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Like I said, you can use the blighted wood in Warcraft III, and this fact must be reconciled. Blighted wood also may not have the same characteristics of aged or dead wood. I'd also like to see where it is stated that lumber from harvested trees can extend the blight to other sources.

And we're not talking about WarCraft 3, where the mechanic was merely: get lumber from a tree. Not the same, at all, from the conversation at hand.

I'll have to look up my woodworking manual on the types of parasites and insects the nestle in infected wood that spreads once cut. Plus, the MASSIVE concern, is its strength. Again, really badly treated wood, is useless outside of just starting a fire. Not alot you can do with it if its just plain bad.

Steadily? Readily available? You completely discount political risk with your analysis, which is a known killer for foreign direct investment. This is true because when you come down to it, no one wants to see their investments go completely up in flames. The overreaching fact that you've missed however, is that Ashenvale is the sovereign territory of the Kal'dorei. You can't claim something that belongs to soemone else as your supply.

And you are completely discounting the races involved, and again, just approaching it as an accountant. Orc's honestly, would just see a massive forest within fast reach, see that their lands were ravaged by the Alliance (see below). Also, Ashenvale is considered, by and large because of Orchish expansion, to be contested. The area completely, is not 100% 'owned' by the Night Elves, and in the sections the Horde currently control (not counting Cataclysm stuff, as I've not seen the sections) are areas the Night Elves weren't near anyways, or avoided completely like the Strand.

If you are discussing Admiral Proudmoore:

No one who knew about what was going on on the Alliance side supported that. He was acting on his own, with no official sanction. I'm sorry, but the Alliance cannot be held responsible for that.

If find this arguement, rather weak. Horde has constantly been accused of either supervising, or authorising, actions taken by rogue elements. At the time, the good Admiral was acting on the behalf of the Alliance (which if I understand historically, didn't include the Night Elves fully at this point, and I believe the Horde were already in Ashenvale at that point), as he was one of the most respected leaders of the Alliance at the time. HOW he was eventually 'dethroned' was by the actions of his daughter, and her group, who were also in the area. Honestly, if she wasn't located so close to Durotar, he would most likely would have just continued, and start The Fourth War.

If you are discussing the Night elves' decision to cut off trade:

From an economic perspective, yes, the Night Elves should not have done this, but let us remember also that the Orcs are not entitled to the resources of Ashenvale. Just as if I need to eat, I am not entitled to break into a supermarket, kill the people who come to stop me, and just take what I want.

Seriously, where is this 'cutting off trade' thing? I have a hard time believing there is much trade between the respective Alliance and Horde elements. From one race group to another (or from one race group to the opposing faction). The lumber operations of Ashenvale have been again, going on for a rather long time, so if there was actual 'legal' trade between the Night Elves and the Horde, that somewhat illegitmates the arguement against lumber operations by the Horde.

In other words: The Night Elves should be slaves to the orcish people because the Orcs want lumber? I'm sorry, but I don't see that as reasonable. The world does not revolve around the Orc, and if the Orc wants what's in Ashenvale, then they should learn to be friends with the Elf.

But you are again, discrediting the races BEHIND the actions, and giving them actions according to your personal accounting background. Which is fine, but most of the time, you're dismissing the flavor of the races. Do you think the Trolls think in such a legal and calculating manner? Very rarely. Orcs are a power of might, but also, one of reason. While Thrall is rather educated, I think (see? My personal view, open to interpretation) is perhaps still abit annoyed with the Night Elves openly attacking the Orcs straight off the bat, when they were in an area they didn't know well. I know thats an arguement drilled down, but again, showed alot of Night Elves xenophobic background.

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It doesn't make it any less readily available if Garrosh doesn't care about slaughtering the Night Elves who inhabit the area. He isn't Thrall, isn't worried about Peace. I don't think "political risk" is a factor when dealing with Garrosh. He doesn't want to make peace, he never has and probably never will.

And Jeedup, there was a trading system going on, which is explained in Cataclysm. It ends after the Wrathgate (I believe, I could be mistaken. It ended at some point, however).

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Bizarre that, Wrathgate, of all things, would make them close off trade. The fudge were they even trading?

Which again, would really sort of makes the cries about Ashenvale wood issues alittle on the weak side.

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Bizarre that, Wrathgate, of all things, would make them close off trade. The fudge were they even trading?

Which again, would really sort of makes the cries about Ashenvale wood issues alittle on the weak side.

I found that rather bizarre (and quite frankly, stupid) as well, but in your response to my last post, I think you're misunderstanding my approach.

Yes, I understand that you can trust the Orcs to be Orcs, but that doesn't absolve them of the blame for this conflict. The Night Elves cut off trade, Garrosh believed that he had to go to war because the Horde needed resources that the Night Elves had, and now his generals are bombing schools and population centers. My argument is that the Horde's justification is weak because there were other options. If not Silverpine, Quel'thalas, if not Quel'thalas, Azshara, if not Azshara, did Garrosh even once consider that it might be a good idea for him to approach the Night Elves about the Twilights after Hamuul was nearly killed? (That actaully, could have been an opportunity for partnership, and a brief explanation of the Horde's committment about never allowing the deployment of the plague again might have defused the entire situation from the start.)

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/cry!

Aleria: NO HE DIDNT. HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT PEACE. HE NEVER HAS.

ARG! How many times do we have to say the same thing over and over? It may make sense to people looking outside at the situation, but Garrosh never, EVER, gave any inclination he was open to trade. All of those places you listed are much farther away than Ashenvale is, except for Azshara. Which already gets blasted to hell by the Goblins. Plus it gives him the excuse to fight the Alliance. Which he wants. What's not to understand about that?

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/cry!

Aleria: NO HE DIDNT. HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT PEACE. HE NEVER HAS.

ARG! How many times do we have to say the same thing over and over? It may make sense to people looking outside at the situation, but Garrosh never, EVER, gave any inclination he was open to trade. All of those places you listed are much farther away than Ashenvale is, except for Azshara. Which already gets blasted to hell by the Goblins. Plus it gives him the excuse to fight the Alliance. Which he wants. What's not to understand about that?

As much as I would like to call Garrosh an evil warmonger, there was a recent story on the official website which has become canon. This may just be him rationalizing, but in the story, he is under the impression that the Alliance just won't leave his people alone, and unless he fights them, the Alliance is going to destroy the Horde.

I think the idea is rediculous, but judging by the story, that's what he believes.

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I think the idea is rediculous, but judging by the story, that's what he believes.

SEE! This! This x9000 This is the point.

Not to mention that his rationalizing the War with the Alliance doesn't really change the point I made anyway.

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You're are also missing my point, and my approach. Though, picked up atleast some of it.

It doesn't matter if there were other avenues. Quel'thalas and the Forsaken lands, don't come into play based on the timeline. Sure, they can get lumber from their now, and probably might (atleast from Blood Elven lands), but that doesn't really mean they should stop in Ashenvale either. The events during (and then post) Third War, already had an Orcish presence in Ashenvale. Why leave? Yes, territory issues, but originally, they didn't know, and had access to needed resourses. Got attacked, then went stupid (not Grom's finest moment) and killed a demi-god. Now again, they were already established there, no matter how you try and argue it. And didn't expand much further out than where they already were. I've often been confused as to how they got to the Strand, I'm guessing boat, since its mostly just a fishing camp (but now fortified in Cata), and again, in an area that the Night Elves had no pressence in at all, and infact, abandoned ages ago.

It's not about absolving 'blame'. In the terms of Orchish politics, there just isn't any.

I hope you're joking about saying 'schools and living centers', sounds like you're trying to be a CNN news anchor.

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SEE! This! This x9000 This is the point.

Not to mention that his rationalizing the War with the Alliance doesn't really change the point I made anyway.

Erm, yes, I don't disagree with that statement, which is why I made it, I just really disagree with what he believes.

I'm allowed to say that I disagree with what he believes, aren't I?

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