Talarian

Wintergrasp, revisited

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HRA-led premades tried various strategies for victory in WG, and when one failed we moved on to the next one, sometimes with good results and sometimes with bad results.

However, we won. A lot.

Also worth noting:

in·san·i·ty   

[in-san-i-tee] Show IPA

–noun, plural -ties.

1.

the condition of being insane; a derangement of the mind.

2.

Law . such unsoundness of mind as affects legal responsibility or capacity.

3.

Psychiatry . (formerly) psychosis.

4.

extreme folly; senselessness; foolhardiness.

What you are referring to is an Einstein quote often misrepresented as being the definition, which it is not.

Just saying.

I know that, it's simply a joke on the part that it was fitting with the situation. As for the HRA from what I heared when you guys we're doing WG premades the allaince won, but I would honestly give credit to the fact that you guys tried new shit, got creative, and had talented players plus coordination. Still back then I failed to see other then from your games which I unfortunately never got to play against you guys in except maybe once or twice. That the allaince repeated the same strategy ALOT it made it to where even with their epic ability to be able to one shot any class with all that tena, you could still win with your eyes closed as Horde largly impart due to the lack of creativity.

I do find it interesting that Skad either

A: Has the complete dictionary memorized.

or B: Actually opend up a dictionary, searched through it, just to find the proper definition of the word insanity. I'm not sure whether I should give you props to the dedication of pointing out the errors of spelling and or falsified definitions. Or giggle at the fact that someone actually went out of their way to prove the definition was wrong?

.... On the subject of Grammar, I wonder how the Grammar Nazi's keep their heads from exploding in a online community where terms such as LOL, LMAO, BRB, ROFLMAO, GTG, IDK, etc are used on a daily basis.

Grammar Nazi: "IT'S LAUGH OUT LOUD! NOT LOL! USE PROPER ENGRISH!" *rages*

Sorry, just my personal annoyance of having people correct grammar ooc'ly in a relaxed non professional environment where grammar doesn't matter except in Rp.

However I see where your both coming from it's just I never really understood it, and as far as my attempts with WG I don't see much of a difference, strats still the same, all it requires now is we Horde have to put forth the effort of trying.

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Yeah, if you want to lag so hard your computer explodes

I don't think it would matter. Being in a seige vehicle anyways, still registers your presence to other players. Plus, if you're lagging, you should get a better connection, or a better computer, because thats really not much in terms of the fault of Wintergrasp.

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I don't think it would matter. Being in a seige vehicle anyways, still registers your presence to other players. Plus, if you're lagging, you should get a better connection, or a better computer, because thats really not much in terms of the fault of Wintergrasp.

I'm just saying most people once everyone is in the keep fighting lag out hard. That's a lot of people who have to get new comps which isn't something Blizz wants. A lot of people aren't gonna play lagging their minds off if they can't afford a new comp/

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I know that, it's simply a joke on the part that it was fitting with the situation. As for the HRA from what I heared when you guys we're doing WG premades the allaince won, but I would honestly give credit to the fact that you guys tried new shit, got creative, and had talented players plus coordination. Still back then I failed to see other then from your games which I unfortunately never got to play against you guys in except maybe once or twice. That the allaince repeated the same strategy ALOT it made it to where even with their epic ability to be able to one shot any class with all that tena, you could still win with your eyes closed as Horde largly impart due to the lack of creativity.

Grammar would make whatever point you were trying to prove with this paragraph comprehensible.

It's not about being a nazi, it's about being able to convey knowledge in a format people can understand.

/end rant

Yes, using different strategies help, and can overcome the numbers game. But WHO plays Wintergrasp?

1) People who need gear (nubs)

2) People who like to kill people. In the face. As Cavannaugh put it.

3) People who like to win as a team.

I'd put those ratios at about 70/25/5, same for both Horde and Alliance (yes, numbers pulled out of ass). Doesn't matter if it's WG, or any other BG scenario. That's who queues. 5 people out of a hundred giving a crap cannot win if the others on their team don't follow instructions. Horde didn't win because they played smarter, they just had numbers. Zombie apocalypse numbers.

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I still say the biggest issue of wintergrasp is it's complete reliance on siege, and no way to beat the game without siege.

Blagh. Too many dismiss demos and their usefulness.

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This was the real problem. The population difference between active Horde and Alliance on TN isn't really that bad. The ratio of Horde PVPers and Alliance PVPers skewers that imbalance a bit more. Alliance and Horde were pretty even on the fights in the beginning, but then just the slightest change made a few Alliance disheartened, so they didn't queue, then they lost more of the fights wich made even fewer queue, then it went to complete crap till Irontoe and crew made their valiant effort to rekindle Alliance side with premades. Even with premades, the majority of Alliance had already given up on Wintergrasp, and those died off when the amount of effort to nag people into queueing wasn't worth the results.

It's really too bad they didn't do this a year ago.

But the TN Alliance have acted like this for fucking years, and you know it. THere's still a handful of you bastards which remember when AV was only up twice a week because Alliance stopped queuing. Those who did would stay in for maybe 20 minutes (until their 1st GY was taken) then would drop out almost immediately.

Nothing's really changed here.

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But the TN Alliance have acted like this for fucking years, and you know it. THere's still a handful of you bastards which remember when AV was only up twice a week because Alliance stopped queuing. Those who did would stay in for maybe 20 minutes (until their 1st GY was taken) then would drop out almost immediately.

Nothing's really changed here.

I disagree. Vanilla WoW Alliance romped all over Horde in server-only BGs. The AV situation you are talking about was a game-wide sitout by Alliance from all servers, not just TN, and only lasted for maybe 3 months before Blizzard caved.

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I know that, it's simply a joke on the part that it was fitting with the situation. As for the HRA from what I heared when you guys we're doing WG premades the allaince won, but I would honestly give credit to the fact that you guys tried new shit, got creative, and had talented players plus coordination. Still back then I failed to see other then from your games which I unfortunately never got to play against you guys in except maybe once or twice. That the allaince repeated the same strategy ALOT it made it to where even with their epic ability to be able to one shot any class with all that tena, you could still win with your eyes closed as Horde largly impart due to the lack of creativity.

I do find it interesting that Skad either

A: Has the complete dictionary memorized.

or B: Actually opend up a dictionary, searched through it, just to find the proper definition of the word insanity. I'm not sure whether I should give you props to the dedication of pointing out the errors of spelling and or falsified definitions. Or giggle at the fact that someone actually went out of their way to prove the definition was wrong?

.... On the subject of Grammar, I wonder how the Grammar Nazi's keep their heads from exploding in a online community where terms such as LOL, LMAO, BRB, ROFLMAO, GTG, IDK, etc are used on a daily basis.

Grammar Nazi: "IT'S LAUGH OUT LOUD! NOT LOL! USE PROPER ENGRISH!" *rages*

Sorry, just my personal annoyance of having people correct grammar ooc'ly in a relaxed non professional environment where grammar doesn't matter except in Rp.

However I see where your both coming from it's just I never really understood it, and as far as my attempts with WG I don't see much of a difference, strats still the same, all it requires now is we Horde have to put forth the effort of trying.

you're*

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why was there a game wide sit out? i dont remember one back in vanilla course my old server eredar the numbers game is switched allaince outnumbered us 5-2 and if it wasn't at least three ally vs 1 horde it wasn't a fair fight. Which when I transfered to this server my jaw dropped at the polar opposite here. and made me almost faction change. It definitly made me face palm repetitively, and btw Villy, for claiming my above paragraph was incomprehensible you seemed to be able to understand it pretty well Why is that I wonder?

xD

And Skaad, next time I'm writing a essay for the college or something and grammar is actually nesscary, I'll call you. As long as I'm in a game and not rping, grammar isn't something I care too much for. If someone can understand it. Why should I care? Although if you feel compelled to correct my Grammar for every post feel free too.

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And Skaad, next time I'm writing a essay for the college or something and grammar is actually nesscary, I'll call you. As long as I'm in a game and not rping, grammar isn't something I care too much for. If someone can understand it. Why should I care? Although if you feel compelled to correct my Grammar for every post feel free too.

to*

glad to help, buddy : )

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Essentially people are saying they are upset that WG is now fair and that sucks. Imbalance is a better way of doing things. Specifically if it works in their favour.

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Essentially people are saying they are upset that WG is now fair and that sucks. Imbalance is a better way of doing things. Specifically if it works in their favour.

That's what you're reading, not at all what people are saying.

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English is English. The words speak for themselves. Lets put it this way, if the system had not been changed, how many of the people complaining would have even cared about the imbalance in the system?

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English is English. The words speak for themselves. Lets put it this way, if the system had not been changed, how many of the people complaining would have even cared about the imbalance in the system?

How many people here in this thread? Besides me playing devils advocate, I've not really seen anybody pipe up and go "OH NO IT'S A TERRIBLE SYSTEM".

I think you'll find that most SERIOUS Horde PvPers hated Tenacity. It didn't make for even or fun fights in Wintergrasp. Hell, I think it's why a lot of us stopped doing Wintergrasp at all, really. At least this guarantees a fair fight. But for the Horde, it means that there's a chance you won't GET to fight. A very large chance.

So what I read into what you're saying is "I'm going to see what I want and I'm right about people QQing about it."

Despite what you may believe, it's in the best interest for the serious Horde PvPers to have a healthy contest with the Alliance, and the Horde and Alliance here on the TNG have a pretty good relationship I'd say. So nobody hates the system because they've got the potential to lose. People hate the system because they've got the potential to not even get involved.

I fail to see how that is so difficult to understand.

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Regardless of the fight over semantics, I disagree that it's going to be as bad for Horde as some people here are arguing.

Like was mentioned many times before, the Alliance's apathy to WG was practically a self-fulfilling prophecy sparked by the ability to transfer freely to Horde or Alliance combined with the ability to create characters on the opposing faction of pvp realms.

However, would it not stand to reason that once people began realizing they weren't going to be facing down six or seven horde for their one place in Tol Barad that more people would want to play? And through that, Horde would get more people in because they would have more spots open to?

Or maybe my logic is flawed.

I suppose in the interest of full disclosure, I haven't been on TN since the beginning of WoW, I transferred here during the beginning/middle of BC.

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If we take your premise as the base and build upon that, you are essentially saying people are whining about the new system because they can't take part in a WG three weeks before Cata?

Honestly this is a lot of QQ for something that will be dead in a few weeks.

Unless they foresee this happening for TB, which it won't. I completely agree with the notion that this benefits both factions. Alliance has been dealing with faction imbalance for a year or more now. Its lead to a general loss of morale. The fact that we are winning is bringing more people to WG even if they get nothing out of it anymore.

I actually saw a full raid of Alliance (40 people) today and I haven't seen that in WG in some time. If or when Alliance realises they can win WG easily, they will be more willing to sign up for TB. More importantly they will be more willing to accept losses because they have a fair and equal chance of winning now.

This over all leads to a better PVP experience for those who enjoy it. When both factions feel they have an equal chance to win and their skill determines their ability to win not a bloody zerg, it gives them more desire to fight harder and longer.

This change will simply make the PVP experience better on TN. Not vice versa.

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I HOPE that the PvP Culture in the Alliance changes, but right now for the Horde it kinda blows. I've experimented with the Wintergrasp queues - and as of yet, I've not been lucky enough to get into a queue.

Unless something changes by Tol'Barad - and honestly, I think it will - the Horde could be falling behind a core group of dedicated Alliance PvPers.

But as I've been saying. I'm playing devils advocate. It's not something I really feel strongly about, I'm just pointing out the other side of the argument here to all the Alliance that seem so quick to tell the Horde to suck eggs.

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Actually this is the horde reaping simply what they sowed. How many times have you seen an Alliance player complain about WG and them being told of that its not an issue of numbers but because Alliance sucks at PVP? Or that they just don't know how to play WG? Or that the strategies are the same and they have no clue what they are doing or being dynamic?

Simply put WG was a numbers game. When the numbers are even all those arguments fly out the window.

Alliance players simply feel vindicated in their point of view and thus the suck eggs comments, because that is exactly what the response was to an Alliance QQ regarding WG.

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Whoever said the Alliance was QQing about their lack of numbers in Wintergrasp was a douche.

What does that say about the Alliance telling the Horde to suck eggs?

You're lumping in the ENTIRE Horde with a handful of morons that told the Alliance they were QQing, and using that as a reasoning to rebuke any argument I make for the sake of argument about how it IS unfair on the Horde. The Horde didn't make the Alliance stop PvPing. It's in the Horde's best interest for the Alliance TO be PvPing. But this change means that the Horde can only PvP with the Alliance if they get lucky. That kinda blows.

It's unfair to say that the Horde bought this upon themselves for winning Wintergrasp.

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Never implied it was right or morally acceptable. I am merely providing the reasoning behind the comments. Exactly what you have been doing.

Dio the generalization is something you read not what I stated. I merely said it was reaping what was sowed. These comments were made on a regular basis. Now the shoe is on the other foot. And its getting the same reaction.

I do like the changes even more now, since the horde actually see what it meant to be Alliance for the past year or more.

Oh yes you guys just won WG. Well done.

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All I know is, we won, and I didnt get enough HK's, and im pissed about it.

FFFFFFFF WG.

and I kept Qing for AV's etc during all this. We lost a lot, so what. Sometimes winning is better than losing cause of the Lol's.

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