Necroxis

World of Warcraft: Cataclysm (Major Spoilers)

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I'd rather see purchasable zeppelins and boats so I can play pirates.

Agreed.

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Also for those who don't know of Godwins law and unfortunately for Raz, also don't "fucking google it". <3 Raz

Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread reductio ad Hitlerum form. The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued,[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

Also, comparing the Orcs to the Nazi's? Bad choice. Vurry bad choice. Maybe if you compared them to Pilgrims... Hmmm..

Even then, kinda hard given the circumstances. But the view that ORCS ARE AWFUL ERADICATE THEM, is certainly the most bias view I have seen on this forums in the two years of being here. I'll leave it at that cause arguing a topic like this would be like banging my head against a brick wall.

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Aaaand, if this flood/decimation of land/what have you is pretty amazing. Azeroth needed an overhaul and this looks like an oncoming of "The Fourth War" which I love-So tired of this sort of filling the space after the Third War. Not to mention this might hit Raven Cross at home even harder than the Wrath Gate has if it completely decimates Sunrock Retreat.

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When it comes to the thought of loosing the swamp of sorrow Yichi that is the only thing I am crying for. Hope some one gets them out just in the nick of time.

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You know, with such a radical change to the "vanilla" stuff, isn't it possible that they're just going to create a brand-new WoW? World of Warcraft 2: The Cataclysm?

A full overhaul of the old world seems to me almost like asking for outrage from people who have never experienced old-world stuff (post-Cat new guys), and people who enjoy the old-world stuff so much that they tend to get Loremaster of the continents before they go near Outland?

...But then again, Blizz HAS been doing a lot of crap that results in outrage from the customers, so I guess that's not a valid point.

And to those who say that race-class restrictions are unbending: it seems to me that you're arguing that people CAN'T change what they believe. Now that, say, tauren are meeting humans (especially through the Argent Crusade) and seeing that there's something TO this whole Light business, it's possible that tauren could turn to the Light, isn't it? And vice versa for humans and dwarves and whatever else.

I'd like to see more flexibility.

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If they were to make a WoW2, it'd probably just be an expansion onto WoW where people would go through a portal and come onto an alternate or 'future' version of Azeroth.... Vanilla Azeroth simply has too much to go through that would need to be changed, whereas it'd be much easier just to copy it, complete the maps so they don't have impossible areas or holes, and erase all the old NPCs from it to put them in proper places or put in new ones to create new questchains to explain why old threats like Onyxia are back and why they're more powerful than before.

That way... a new Azeroth could allow flying mounts while the old one would be safe enough from that so people could still level new characters, yet still be prone to the danger of higher levels coming to 'old' Azeroth to gank (on regular land mounts) if they so wished to. Also, a new Azeroth could have the massive changes to the landscape caused by disasters and a 'cataclysm' that wouldn't interfere with leveling area quests.

That's how I would set it up, anyway. I don't expect Blizzard to do that though.

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If they were to make a WoW2, it'd probably just be an expansion onto WoW where people would go through a portal and come onto an alternate or 'future' version of Azeroth.... Vanilla Azeroth simply has too much to go through that would need to be changed, whereas it'd be much easier just to copy it, complete the maps so they don't have impossible areas or holes, and erase all the old NPCs from it to put them in proper places or put in new ones to create new questchains to explain why old threats like Onyxia are back and why they're more powerful than before.

That way... a new Azeroth could allow flying mounts while the old one would be safe enough from that so people could still level new characters, yet still be prone to the danger of higher levels coming to 'old' Azeroth to gank (on regular land mounts) if they so wished to. Also, a new Azeroth could have the massive changes to the landscape caused by disasters and a 'cataclysm' that wouldn't interfere with leveling area quests.

That's how I would set it up, anyway. I don't expect Blizzard to do that though.

Horrible, that's basically compounding MORE upon the terrible idea of "What level you are dictates what timespan you are in" which is just awful for RP continuity and immersion.

If they're changing the world, they're just gonna change it, and I for one am TOTALLY okay with that because it's got balls, and for once, the world of Azeroth will be permanently, irrevocably changed by the new expansion, which is how worldwide storyline should be approached in MMO, not toed around so everyone gets everything. Eff that.

If you didn't experience old Azeroth WoW - well, tough shit.

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Chopping down the trees in the grove and picking an apple out of it and eating it are two completely different things.

What the orcs did.

Oh hey, this house looks empty, it must be okay for us to go in and take what we want.

Only instead its, oh hey this forest looks empty, lets chop these trees down

Wait, what? That's a TERRIBLE analogy.

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A full overhaul of the old world seems to me almost like asking for outrage from people who have never experienced old-world stuff (post-Cat new guys), and people who enjoy the old-world stuff so much that they tend to get Loremaster of the continents before they go near Outland?

I would wager that the changes would make heavy use of the phasing technology you see prominently in Icecrown and the DK starting area.

i.e. the old stuff would still be there until you do a certain quest line.

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And that's part of being on a PvP server, that's part of the point.

If you don't like being ganked get 80 friends to come help, I personally go to lowby zones all the time gank and un gank lowbies.

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You know, with such a radical change to the "vanilla" stuff, isn't it possible that they're just going to create a brand-new WoW? World of Warcraft 2: The Cataclysm?

A full overhaul of the old world seems to me almost like asking for outrage from people who have never experienced old-world stuff (post-Cat new guys), and people who enjoy the old-world stuff so much that they tend to get Loremaster of the continents before they go near Outland?

...But then again, Blizz HAS been doing a lot of crap that results in outrage from the customers, so I guess that's not a valid point.

And to those who say that race-class restrictions are unbending: it seems to me that you're arguing that people CAN'T change what they believe. Now that, say, tauren are meeting humans (especially through the Argent Crusade) and seeing that there's something TO this whole Light business, it's possible that tauren could turn to the Light, isn't it? And vice versa for humans and dwarves and whatever else.

I'd like to see more flexibility.

I'm glad you and I finally agree on something. The learning things from other races is basically my major arguing point for the class-race restrictions (Lets not forget that had it not been for the High Elves, Humans would have -never- known magic. They learned it from them~). However, if you do have a horde alt, go to Elder Rise on Thunderbluff and they start to explain the whole thing vaguely but what you explained is basically the basis for all of the class-race changes.

As far as the second game goes, I'm going to say I doubt it. However, the idea of it being so radical does make it seem like around this time would be where a new RTS in the Warcraft series would begin. We know that it wont happen so really, here's what we're looking at:

Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne, Vanilla WoW, Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King - All of which tie up loose ends in the initial Third War.

So now what?

A new war, so basically a new RTS but completely delt with in the world we all play in. Congrats, we're all soldiers again.

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If you didn't experience old Azeroth WoW - well, tough shit.
QFT. I never experienced any end-game raid content in vanilla WoW (okay, let's be honest: I never experienced any end-game raid content in WoW, period, and never will), and only by vast sweeping changes would I be able to. Let's face it: Onyxia is not the same at level 80. Leveling is not the same with the speed changes: whole zones can be skipped, and from what I hear, lowbie zones are ghost towns.

No one will ever experience vanilla WoW like it was back when it was vanilla WoW. Those times are dead and gone. I know, because I grieved for them the day the first player swapped his epic helm for a quest green in Hellfire Peninsula.

The hypothetical re-design of Azeroth results in nothing but benefits. The changes in leveling and the zones people level through would be synchronized as a well-woven unit. The lore story would advance in the actual world rather than the usual sticker treatment. (I'd honestly have expected role play nuts to get excited about that; I know I did and I don't even play anymore.) Players get to fly in Azeroth (okay, as a world pvp proponent, that's probably a negative, but from Blizz's perspective it's a benefit to shut up the whiners). The new content would be so startling as to be a bigger draw to old players who have since quit (like myself).

Which is, once again, why I'm extremely skeptical. I've never seen Blizzard do something that appealing to me.

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Also, comparing the Orcs to the Nazi's? Bad choice. Vurry bad choice. Maybe if you compared them to Pilgrims... Hmmm..

I'm not talking specifically in terms of the Nazis who ran Germany, but Germany itself. Leave everything post 1940 about Hitler and the Nazi party,(including the latter to be known knowledge of what they did aside from declaring war) and you still have the nation of Germany lodging similar arguments. You also have a host of other nations who vehimently disagree with them, and in the case of Poland, see it as enough to take action against them.

You are right though, the pilgrims are probably a better example.

I believe I also mentioned Kuwait.

Even then, kinda hard given the circumstances. But the view that ORCS ARE AWFUL ERADICATE THEM, is certainly the most bias view I have seen on this forums in the two years of being here. I'll leave it at that cause arguing a topic like this would be like banging my head against a brick wall.

When did I ever say "Orcs are awful, eradicate them"? I believe that I said that they should try to trade with someone for the lumber, instead of taking land that isn't theirs.

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I know, because I grieved for them the day the first player swapped his epic helm for a quest green in Hellfire Peninsula.

This was seriously the impression that everyone had after we had just hammered our dicks in the dirt for almost six weeks on an

and were getting more serious about Naxx and the Expansion was due to drop in a few months. The very same questions were asked "Why should we try and get Tier 3 by doing more difficult stuff when the first green I pick up is going to be better?"

It really wasn't.

I had full Tier 2 and a couple pieces of Tier 3 and I didn't replace a single item until we were running Heroics/KZ, and even then it was a loss to threat and mitigation wearing the dungeon set pre-buff.

Also.... I love the leaked info. /thumbsup

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If they expand classes like that, I really want to see Draenei warlocks.

"I summon my Succubus!"

"...Frank, is that you?"

"Son of a! How long's it been since we've seen each other? What was it, the destruction of Argus?"

"Yeah."

"Oh...right. Go kill some things and we'll just pretend this never happened."

"Got'cha."

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I'm going to have to agree with Yat and Sabachthan in this case. Living in an almost totally unchanging game world is just... silly.

In the past, they have altered the makeup of Azeroth (in very small doses). With the Sunwell patch, for example, they physically removed M'uru from Silvermoon, and added NPCs and changed dialogue and so forth throughout the city to reflect the change.

And it was interesting. And good for RP -- and new players who hadn't "experienced" M'uru having been present weren't helling about saying "OMG this SUXX that I didn't get to see THE BIG NAARU GADDAMNIT!" You know what I mean?

If this is a similar case, only on a much grander scale, well.

I can't imagine it will cause many problems. It will just be how WoW is. Just. How it is!

Just like how it is now is how it is.

That was a bit convoluted.

And at any rate, I can't imagine the subscription base is expanding that quickly, anymore. Now they just need to keep the enormous foundation of players that Blizzard already possesses from dwindling, and I'd say something like this might be just the way to do it.

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Troll Druids would be pretty much the coolest thing ever.

Ryo's master plan:

Wait until troll druids come out, then pay for a faction transfer of Night Elf Druid. Instant 80 Troll Druid.

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