Necroxis

3.2.2 will bring the return of a familiar enemy.

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It doesn't really make the problem worse. There aren't magically more level 80s on the server wanting to do content. Those groups that will go in to fight Onyxia aren't at the same time in Ulduar or Naxx or Trials; no additional load.

Whenever a new instance/raid is released, more players will be running instances.

Also, If I have done all the crusader bosses I can and cleared Ulduar, I have nothing left to do. I stop instancing. But if there were another instance, I would be running it. So, Instead of having 10 players x 3hrs for Ulduar and Crusader, you have 10 players x 4hrs for Ulduar, Crusader and Onyxia. More load. Unless you want to argue that having the same amount of people instance for longer isn't additional load. In which case they're still tying up available instances other players could use.

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And I'm sure instance locks also keep that version of the instance actually running (or at least a space in the available instances to run).

At least I've always been able to get in to something I'm locked to first try, as opposed to playing the "jump in the instance portal" game for 20 minutes an instance.

I wonder if I kept my axe helmet.

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Whenever a new instance/raid is released, more players will be running instances.

Also, If I have done all the crusader bosses I can and cleared Ulduar, I have nothing left to do. I stop instancing. But if there were another instance, I would be running it. So, Instead of having 10 players x 3hrs for Ulduar and Crusader, you have 10 players x 4hrs for Ulduar, Crusader and Onyxia. More load. Unless you want to argue that having the same amount of people instance for longer isn't additional load. In which case they're still tying up available instances other players could use.

...who the hell on our server is running and clearing both 10-man Ulduar and both bosses of Crusader (let alone likely all five by the time 3.2.2 is released) in three hours? I'm sure there are some servers with raid teams who meet that condition, but there is also enough logic behind upgrading those server's infastructure first such that it becomes a non-issue for them.

Even if you could do both of those 10-mans in 3 hours the most resources your raiding team would take up is equal to the resources required to run the instance smoothly (and between Ulduar, single-room crusader and single-cave Ony you damn well bet Ulduar takes up the most resources). Doing Onyxia later in the same night doesn't create more strain than you would have been staying in Ulduar the whole night.

The real reason that this problem is coming up is the new change to emblems and heroics; everyone wants in now. That change has created far more demand for resources than the addition on an Onyxia raid ever could.

Agnarr, I suspect they constantly write raid changes to a database using the raid ID as the key to retrieve it. I'd have a hard time believing that Blizzard would allow that entire resource to be hogged for 7 days for the average raiding time over a week of say 16 hours.

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Firstly, three hours was a number pulled out of my ass. But, If my raid group wasn't extending our lockout for hard modes and achievements, we could be clearing Ulduar and 10 man Crusader in 3 hours. First two bosses of Crusader are only 15 minutes. Ulduar has almost no trash and the bosses are all fairly simple at this stage.

Secondly, the point still stands at any number of hours. It's still more time spent raiding overall.

Thirdly, this problem existed before 3.2 was released, especially during primetime. I had spent 5 or more minutes trying for instance spawns. The patch last tuesday only made things even worse by introducing the emblem change BEFORE they upgraded all their server hardware.

Next, If you'll recall, the instance limit was added in response to Naxxramas lag. This lag would only affect your raid when you were engaged in combat. Boss combat especially uses the most resources server side, owing to the sometimes thousands of attacks per second that need to be sent back and forth from client to server. The size of the instance in that case would be largely irrelevant.

There is no way the number of instances given out is related to the resource load of the particular instance you're spawning, otherwise you could almost always get a VH spawn. In fact, it seems they've implemented a priority system based on heroic dailies and 80 raid being opened to players first. And lower level raids and non-daily heroics being nearly impossible to get into during primetime.

Nothing changes the fact that this is a huge problem Blizzard should have seen coming. I'm sure they pay someone to analyse instance server loads and make reccomendations accordingly. It seems they've ignored this person and increased the load on those servers without implementing the hardware first. That's like opening a shopping mall on the end of a long single lane dirt road, it's just plain poor planning.

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Server load's not bad?

Try ricocheting off the entrance to ST for 35 minutes on a Tuesday night.

Try ricocheting off the entrance to SH for 55 minutes on a Thursday night.

Blizzard. Less new content, more access. We're not all running Ulduar yet.

...That's my piece, all I gots ta say. :)

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Varimathras killed Balnazzar in Warcraft 3. The Alliance killed Deathwing over the sea just before "Night of the Dragons." What's your point?
Ultimately, she was unmasked by Marshal Windsor with the help of Varian Wrynn, Broll Bearmantle, Valeera Sanguinar, and Thargas Anvilmar. Taking Anduin Wrynn captive, she fled back to the safety of her lair with Varian and his entourage in pursuit. Varian, Broll, Valeera, Thargas, and Jaina Proudmoore descended into the depths of her lair to rescue Anduin and bring her to justice. In the end she was slain by Varian, and her head taken back to Stormwind to be hung from the gates.

Good luck in getting up from -that- one in a lore context. Maybe it's UNDEAD ONYXIA RAISED BY THE LICH KING!? /shrug. Unless it's a non-cannon upgrade (which it appears to be) it'll have zero to do with Grim Batol, thus in fact, being my point.

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Firstly, three hours was a number pulled out of my ass. But, If my raid group wasn't extending our lockout for hard modes and achievements, we could be clearing Ulduar and 10 man Crusader in 3 hours. First two bosses of Crusader are only 15 minutes. Ulduar has almost no trash and the bosses are all fairly simple at this stage.

Secondly, the point still stands at any number of hours. It's still more time spent raiding overall.

Thirdly, this problem existed before 3.2 was released, especially during primetime. I had spent 5 or more minutes trying for instance spawns. The patch last tuesday only made things even worse by introducing the emblem change BEFORE they upgraded all their server hardware.

Next, If you'll recall, the instance limit was added in response to Naxxramas lag. This lag would only affect your raid when you were engaged in combat. Boss combat especially uses the most resources server side, owing to the sometimes thousands of attacks per second that need to be sent back and forth from client to server. The size of the instance in that case would be largely irrelevant.

There is no way the number of instances given out is related to the resource load of the particular instance you're spawning, otherwise you could almost always get a VH spawn. In fact, it seems they've implemented a priority system based on heroic dailies and 80 raid being opened to players first. And lower level raids and non-daily heroics being nearly impossible to get into during primetime.

Nothing changes the fact that this is a huge problem Blizzard should have seen coming. I'm sure they pay someone to analyse instance server loads and make reccomendations accordingly. It seems they've ignored this person and increased the load on those servers without implementing the hardware first. That's like opening a shopping mall on the end of a long single lane dirt road, it's just plain poor planning.

1) My apologies. I didn't mean to slight you or your guild. Point taken.

2) Your admittance of hard mode attempts makes me think that this isn't the case. Raiders have designated hours they raid, and the raid groups that aren't failing due to summer vacations right now are doing so. And those groups that don't have the numbers right now aren't likely to magically get those numbers due to Onyxia coming to play.

3) I think we've both agreed that a: This isn't a new problem and b: it's come to the spotlight due to the change to emblems.

4) You can still open up instances based on a heuristic that isn't based on size without forcing a false size on instances such that they are all considered equal in the server's eyes. An example of such a system would be a priority system giving weights to instances based on the number of "new instance requests". As soon as enough stable resources are available for the highest rated instance, create one. It's weight goes down (fewer requests) and the system continues until resources are freed up.

4b) Naxx came out with launch, and they put that instance cap in to stop the lag... January? That was obviously the bandaid fix. Designing, testing, confirming, planning deployment and actually deploying such a solution could easily take up to 9 months. There is no reason to think this hasn't been the network teams main priority for the last half a year.

5) Person to advise on hardware and requirements or no; what do you think would have happened if they stopped putting out content until all servers could access instances regularly? They all still have profit-focused managers after all :S

As a conclusion, I don't see the Onyxia instance being another new shopping mall down this dirt road. It's another store. People may go and see the new store, because it's new. I don't think that it will create more traffic to the mall though, at least not in the middle or long run.

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Good luck in getting up from -that- one in a lore context. Maybe it's UNDEAD ONYXIA RAISED BY THE LICH KING!? /shrug. Unless it's a non-cannon upgrade (which it appears to be) it'll have zero to do with Grim Batol, thus in fact, being my point.

They've already confirmed that the raid instance is not a part of lore and just for fun, so the topic is moot in its meaning as a serious topic but I think they could still easily fuck up the lore somehow to make it "make sense" that Onyxia is back.

And then you just append "and Deathwing was the puppet master playing them all" to the explanation and you have instant Grim Batol inclusion =D

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They've already confirmed that the raid instance is not a part of lore and just for fun, so the topic is moot in its meaning as a serious topic but I think they could still easily fuck up the lore somehow to make it "make sense" that Onyxia is back.

And then you just append "and Deathwing was the puppet master playing them all" to the explanation and you have instant Grim Batol inclusion =D

When you make snarky comments like "Whats your point" I am going to explain myself, moot or not.

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THANK

* Fan of Knives: The damage done by this ability has been reduced by 30%.

FRICKIN'

* Throwing Specialization: This talent no longer causes Fan of Knives to interrupt spellcasting.

GOD!

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1) My apologies. I didn't mean to slight you or your guild. Point taken.

2) Your admittance of hard mode attempts makes me think that this isn't the case. Raiders have designated hours they raid, and the raid groups that aren't failing due to summer vacations right now are doing so. And those groups that don't have the numbers right now aren't likely to magically get those numbers due to Onyxia coming to play.

3) I think we've both agreed that a: This isn't a new problem and b: it's come to the spotlight due to the change to emblems.

4) You can still open up instances based on a heuristic that isn't based on size without forcing a false size on instances such that they are all considered equal in the server's eyes. An example of such a system would be a priority system giving weights to instances based on the number of "new instance requests". As soon as enough stable resources are available for the highest rated instance, create one. It's weight goes down (fewer requests) and the system continues until resources are freed up.

4b) Naxx came out with launch, and they put that instance cap in to stop the lag... January? That was obviously the bandaid fix. Designing, testing, confirming, planning deployment and actually deploying such a solution could easily take up to 9 months. There is no reason to think this hasn't been the network teams main priority for the last half a year.

5) Person to advise on hardware and requirements or no; what do you think would have happened if they stopped putting out content until all servers could access instances regularly? They all still have profit-focused managers after all :S

As a conclusion, I don't see the Onyxia instance being another new shopping mall down this dirt road. It's another store. People may go and see the new store, because it's new. I don't think that it will create more traffic to the mall though, at least not in the middle or long run.

I'll concede all but points two and five. Guilds do have set raiding hours, but also set goals. If they complete that goal well before their time is up, they have little else to do at the moment but to end the raid. As for five, The easily could have not put in the emblem change until they had the issue resolved. Only releasing a new instance would have made much less impact on the problem, and created much less ill-will from the players. As for the shopping mall analogy, the emblem change is the mall and Onyxia is a new shop.

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Okhu, there are no "issues" with instance servers. There's a blue post somewhere (cause I dont feel like looking for it) announcing that the servers not being launched are on purpose because there were too many people just sitting inside of instances taking up space. Each expansion has a set amount of instance servers that they run, Vanilla being the least, Wrath being the most.

So, quit crossing your fingers. It was done on purpose.

Yeah, I know they said it was a short term solution but we all know what that means.

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Okhu, there are no "issues" with instance servers...

...servers not being launched are on purpose...

It was done on purpose.

I'd say, whatever the reason, if I can't get into an instance the moment I walk up to it, there's an issue, whether it was done on purpose or not.

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I'd say, whatever the reason, if I can't get into an instance the moment I walk up to it, there's an issue, whether it was done on purpose or not.

What Kirick said.

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Perfect quote for the Rogue thing:

Rogues: "Blizz, look at rogues! Look at rogues!"

Blizz: "Shhss, you're fine!"

Rogues: "Blizz, look at rogues! Look at rogues!

Blizz: "SHHS DAMN! You're damn fine, shut up!"

Rogues: "Blizz, look at rogues! Look at rogues!"

Blizz: "Ok, we looked at it... and you know what? You were right! You're NOT fine, there are things that really needed nerfs! Thanks for showing it".

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* We noticed a change where rogues were killing shit well. This was unintended and will be removed. Go vanish or something, LOL.

this ^^ :)

As far as the instance thing, it is really, really annoying. It is definitely something they should have fixed before bringing out 3.2. Last time I went blue searching I believe they said they had upgraded 30% of the servers that have the problem, and TN was on the list to be fixed "soon".

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Doesn't affect me as a mutilate rogue -shrug-

ALSO, new record

I jumped at an instance entrance for a full hour before giving up.

Guess blizzard hates occulas too.

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I still laugh when I think of WoW players criticizing WAR for bugs and then saying, "Pssh, screw y'all, I'm going back to WoW. I might try WAR in a year when they've cleaned out these issues."

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Oh jeezeez. On Spirestone it seems that theyve mostly got the instance server thinger fixed, but Ive longed on and had no NPCs a few times...heehee. It was fun.

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They've already confirmed that the raid instance is not a part of lore and just for fun...

I guess they've given up on lore and RP at this point. "Well, we've managed to contradict ourselves fifty gazillion ways in our game, so screw it all. Let's just upgrade Ony."

Okhu, there are no "issues" with instance servers. There's a blue post somewhere (cause I dont feel like looking for it) announcing that the servers not being launched are on purpose because there were too many people just sitting inside of instances taking up space. Each expansion has a set amount of instance servers that they run, Vanilla being the least, Wrath being the most.

So, quit crossing your fingers. It was done on purpose.

Yeah, I know they said it was a short term solution but we all know what that means.

1. You know, almost nobody runs BC instances anymore, yet somehow, we still wound up spending almost an hour trying to get into SH. I smell cattle feces.

2. Locking out even more people who want to instance is a GREAT solution for instance campers! That way, MOST of the instances can be...uh...hmm.

3. A better solution would be, say, a time limit on instances based on full-clear at slightly less than level recommendation. I'm pretty sure people would be only TOO happy to help them measure that. But such ideas require thought, consideration, and logic--none of which are standard for human beings.

4. "The way we can give people more of what they want is by not giving it to them! BRILLIANT!"

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