Leyujin

The Scourge vs. The Burning Legion

Who are the best big-time WoW villain organizations?  

53 members have voted

  1. 1. Who are the best big-time WoW villain organizations?

    • The Burning Legion.
      3
    • The Scourge.
      11
    • The Silithid, even though they were around for all of several months.
      4
    • Dragons.
      2
    • Other assorted Old God mischief.
      10
    • Other.
      3
    • MRGLR GLMRGLMR RRLGGG
      20


Recommended Posts

So. After playing WotLK all this time, I've realized something.

The Burning Legion are hella boring. That's right. They suck. They're about as intimidating as a hamster. They're chock full of stupid villains who are full of fail, they never accomplish anything of worth, get defeated day in and day out, and don't even have any monologues worth a damn.

Back in the days of WPL, EPL, Scholomance and Stratholme, I wasn't too intimidated by the Scourge either, although in the early days those instances were a lot tougher, to be sure. The first scourge invasion, with one elite mob attacking Undercity and some level 10s camped outside the capitals, made me roll on the ground laughing. The whole "let's huddle around these crystals and prance around like ninnies" was thoroughly debasing.

However, with the expansion and Northrend, I've had a change of heart on the Scourge. They have sub-characters who are actually interesting, take long involved quests of subversion and coercion to take down, and have minions rampaging over the land like they... well, own it. They're dynamic and wonderfully evil. And they do the whole corruption meme more effectively than their erstwhile parents.

So, is it just an example of how far Blizzard has come with their storytelling and their game design? Or is it genuinely that the Burning Legion is a load of soggy tissue paper, and Scourge just own? Please feel free to debate the merits of the villains of the World of Warcraft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is the former. Blizz has come a long way with the story telling and game design to show more of an evolving story rather than something static. Things CHANGE in game now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The first scourge invasion, with one elite mob attacking Undercity and some level 10s camped outside the capitals, made me roll on the ground laughing. The whole "let's huddle around these crystals and prance around like ninnies" was thoroughly debasing.

With how many people crying that player zombies were disrupting their game and forcing them to cancel their account for the week or so that was going on, you expect Blizzard to make a foe actually impact players negatively?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Other.

It is ALL the different villains, the Scourge, the Burning Legion, the Old Gods, Murlocs, and mavericks like Illidan Stormrage who make WoW's villain base so diverse and powerful.

The Legion isn't about subversion or corruption in its evil, though those things do follow in its wake, the Legion at its most pure is about raw, unfettered power. It bludgeons you over the head with its evil all the time, whereas the Scourge HAS raw power, but it's more subversive and relentless than just one giant big crushing blow.

The problem with portraying a villainy such as the Legion in a game like this is that you can't make every legion mob an elite that's epicly powerful because people need to fight -something-. Also the storytelling bit, now that the story in WoW changes, they can make better evil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

would the titans or those earthen peeps who are bringing an end to the world and recreating it in darkness considered as "other" or or "old gods" ???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Old Gods, by far. As cool as the Scourge is, it can't compare to the subtle, tingly, Lovercraftian workings of Yogg Saroth. When it whispered to me in Howling Fjord the first time, I marked out.

EDIT: The book by Kel'thuzad mentioned earlier is a great piece of writing. Makes me wish DKs had the option to stay "evil".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
would the titans or those earthen peeps who are bringing an end to the world and recreating it in darkness considered as "other" or or "old gods" ???

The Titans and the Earthen are, for the most part, good.

Unless corrupted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everything, ultimately... is linked back to the Old Gods.

Sargeras used to be a Titan that promoted order and reshaping the worlds. He fought against the Old Gods but was corrupted by them into doubting the Titan's cause and thus abandoning them.

From there, he created the Burning Legion, part of which the Dreadlords were responsible for the forging of Frostmourne and the creation of the Lich King, whom called to people like Kel'Thuzad, that paved the way for Arthas to pursue Frostmourne, take hold of it, and become the current Lich King villain faced today.

Old Gods also corrupted Nethalrion, former dragon aspect of the earth that shaped the earth and formed the mountains, becoming Deathwing who is the father of both Nefarion and Onyxia as well as all the other members of the black dragonflight... as well as creator of the Dragon Soul, whom enslaved Alexstrasza, and is possibly the one responsible for the Nightmare in the Emerald Dream.

C'thun created the Silithid, of whom presumably some in the far north split off and evolved into the Nerubians, who made up some of the first lines of Scourge soldiers. Yogg-Saron corrupted one of the world trees to where its destruction was ordered and corrupted remains of it are in the Grizzly Hills, and his influence is said to be inside the ores of Saronite all across Northrend. He also corrupted Loken, whom caused the war between Storm and Earth giants, and is attempting to destroy the mortal races to bring the world back to darkness and chaos... or like the Nordic god he was based off of, be a catalyst for Ragnarok.

So... Old Gods might have had limited spotlight attention, but their influences are what caused most of the main active villains to come into existence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

C'thun created the Silithid, of whom presumably some in the far north split off and evolved into the Nerubians, who made up some of the first lines of Scourge soldiers.

Look up Azi'Aqir.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sargeras used to be a Titan that promoted order and reshaping the worlds. He fought against the Old Gods but was corrupted by them into doubting the Titan's cause and thus abandoning them.

Actually Sargeras was corrupted while fighting the Demons on the various worlds. The ones that affected him the most negatively were the Nathrezim

Sargeras was a mighty giant of molten bronze who led the armies of the Pantheon, the champion of the titans' cause. Like the rest of his kind, he was altruistic and just, unable to conceive of pure evil. Sargeras was called upon to defeat and imprison the hordes of demons native to the Twisting Nether, so that their evil would not contaminate the titans' vision of order. Sargeras went about his task devoutly for countless millennia.

While his confusion and misery deepened, Sargeras was forced to contend with another group intent on disrupting the Titans' order: the Nathrezim. This dark race of vampiric demons (also known as dreadlords) conquered a number of populated worlds by possessing their inhabitants and turning them to the shadow. The nefarious, scheming dreadlords turned whole nations against one another by manipulating them into unthinking hatred and mistrust. Sargeras defeated the Nathrezim easily, but their corruption affected him deeply.

Shaken by the evil of demons in general and the Nathrezim in particular, Sargeras began to despair of his task and gradually slipped into a brooding depression. As doubt and despair overwhelmed Sargeras' senses, he lost all faith not only in his mission, but also in the Titans' vision of an ordered universe. Eventually he came to believe that the concept of order itself was folly, and that chaos and depravity were the only absolutes within the dark, lonely universe. His fellow Titans tried to make Sargeras realize his erroneous way of thinking and calm his raging emotions, but he disregarded their more optimistic beliefs as self-serving delusions. Storming from their ranks forever, Sargeras set out to find his own place in the universe. Although the Pantheon was sorrowful at his departure, the Titans could never have predicted just how far their lost brother would go.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Sargeras

But yes, Old Gods ftw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Scourge are definitely the more direct threat to the mortal races of Azeroth. The Old Gods, although certainly more powerful individually, are still imprisoned and slumbering beneath the earth, and can only act through their psychic links to weak-willed mortals and the Elemental Princes, who aren't very civil with each other. The Burning Legion works more subtlely before they launch a full invasion, and require the help of others to do so, corrupting groups of people to get them to open the portals that would summon their forces in, so they can't directly attack Azeroth. The Scourge is all present and active on Azeroth, however, and always gradually gaining strength, despite how many blows are dealt against the undead. People willfully and unwillingly join it, sometimes in great numbers, like the Vry'kul. Except in very rare cases, they are absolutely loyal to the Lich King and carry out his will to the word, at the exclusion of any other activity. Their labor is unending, always working to arm themselves and get even stronger, requiring no rest or constant supply of food. The characters are supposed to feel desperation when facing the Scourge, it's what the developers and the undead both want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely the Old Gods. They are bloody subtle, extending their little tendrils across the world, slowly corrupting everything that gets into their sphere of influence. And the scary part is not many people are even aware of it. It is magnificent!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just hope that for future Old God raids (Yogg-Saron, most likely), that they don't pull another Kil'Jaedan -Kael'Thas bit. Stuff like that only works once... I'll be kind of pissed if they let Arthas be defeated lorewise (which he will be) and he and the Scourge just become an extended army of some 'bigger' enemy after he becomes old hat after awhile.

And that Sargeras article must have been changed last I read it... I remember something about Sargeras having started to doubt the cause of the Titans while fighting the Old Gods and their lieutenants, and that doubt was made worse and finally made him snap when he encountered and fought the Nazerthim. It had something to do with the Curse of Flesh that was put on the Earthen and caused the Titans to quarantine them in places like Uldaman and Ulduar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nexcroxis, I believe that's the old lore, whereas Rand was talking about the new lore.

It's still the same. Sargeras was corrupted before the Ordering of Azeroth, and the Titans' interaction with the Old Gods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In the old lore, the demons corrupted Sargaras, in the new lore, he corrupted them.

Wrong

People are throwing around "demons" as an umbrella term. There are different types of demons, each of whom have different beliefs.

Demons such as the Nathrezim helped corrupt Sargeras.

After Sargeras went insane and decided to kill everything, he sought out agents to serve him in exchange for incredible demonic power. Enter the Eredar: Velen, Archimonde, Kil'Jaeden. Eredar =/= all demons.

Sargeras went insane before Azeroth even existed. He didn't even know of the world until Azshara and her Highborne caught his eye for their abuse of Arcane Magic.

((Yes this is the current/new lore. Although I don't know why people just don't accept this change already. Damn, its not even that big of a deal!))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the scarlets. Id like another faction more maybe if they developed it as well as the SC. Plus I'm a sucker for dk lore. (Darion is my hero)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wrong

People are throwing around "demons" as an umbrella term. There are different types of demons, each of whom have different beliefs.

Demons such as the Nathrezim helped corrupt Sargeras.

After Sargeras went insane and decided to kill everything, he sought out agents to serve him in exchange for incredible demonic power. Enter the Eredar: Velen, Archimonde, Kil'Jaeden. Eredar =/= all demons.

Sargeras went insane before Azeroth even existed. He didn't even know of the world until Azshara and her Highborne caught his eye for their abuse of Arcane Magic.

((Yes this is the current/new lore. Although I don't know why people just don't accept this change already. Damn, its not even that big of a deal!))

Sargeras: I MUST KILL THE DEMONS!

Aman'Thul: No, Sargeras, You are the Demons

Then Sargeras was an Eredar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sargeras: I MUST KILL THE DEMONS!

Aman'Thul: No, Sargeras, You are the Demons

Then Sargeras was an Eredar

Sargeras is not an Eredar, nowhere in the lore does it suggest this. He changed his appearance when he approached Velen, Archimonde, and Kil'Jaeden.

Sargeras is most likely a Vanir from the description of his Bronze skin, but his race is classified as Dark Titan.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Vanir

Titans are immensely powerful beings who have the ability to change their appearance, plus he is the leader of the Burning Legion, so people assume Sargeras is a demon. This is not true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sargeras is not an Eredar, nowhere in the lore does it suggest this. He changed his appearance when he approached Velen, Archimonde, and Kil'Jaeden.

Sargeras is most likely a Vanir from the description of his Bronze skin, but his race is classified as Dark Titan.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Vanir

Titans are immensely powerful beings who have the ability to change their appearance, plus he is the leader of the Burning Legion, so people assume Sargeras is a demon. This is not true.

Dear God man..

...Dear God...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead