The_Golden_Wolf

Racial attitudes regarding physical intimacy

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Actually Raz hinted to something I've been thinking about. Allot of people don't take race or faction into account. Most people supplant a human's sex drive onto their character which might (depending on which race we are talking about) be unnatural or excessive.

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Actually Raz hinted to something I've been thinking about. Allot of people don't take race or faction into account. Most people supplant a human's sex drive onto their character which might (depending on which race we are talking about) be unnatural or excessive.

Sometimes. Races like Night Elves and the Blood Elves being the sexbunny races has always seemed weird to me... They live hundreds to thousands of years. The urge to breed really wouldn't be that strong as it would in humans that live, at most, maybe 110 years. If they're really lucky and healthy.

But, when people want to do nothing but cyber, they're usually going to pic toons that are the most attractive... Hence why cybering isn't RPing. It has nothing to do with roleplaying anything and everything to do with living vicariously through an artificial 'person' via text.

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Actually Raz hinted to something I've been thinking about. Allot of people don't take race or faction into account. Most people supplant a human's sex drive onto their character which might (depending on which race we are talking about) be unnatural or excessive.

I agree. Culturally (as far as I know) Night Elves, Forsaken (both of mine are like this) and Tauren probably would not be as involved in ERP as some people play them (mostly the NElfs).

Also, people don't understand the social consequences of sleeping around all the time. Seems to me at least that Blood Elves would look down upon prostitution or its lesser forms big time. For a race (in general) that prefers a proper, aristocratic society, there sure are a lot of tramps.

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Sometimes. Races like Night Elves and the Blood Elves being the sexbunny races has always seemed weird to me... They live hundreds to thousands of years. The urge to breed really wouldn't be that strong as it would in humans that live, at most, maybe 110 years. If they're really lucky and healthy..

Hence the cleverness and accuracy of the troll flirt emotes. :D

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Hence the cleverness and accuracy of the troll flirt emotes. :D

That's more of a standard put on by their own culture due to the lifestyles they live. They'd probably be able to live hundreds of years as well if they didn't live in such harsh environments or practice such high risk lifestyles. Intimate relationships with them are also pretty rare, if I remember correctly, because of the liklihood that (the males, at least) run a high risk of going out to hunt or go to war and never come back.

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That's more of a standard put on by their own culture due to the lifestyles they live. They'd probably be able to live hundreds of years as well if they didn't live in such harsh environments or practice such high risk lifestyles. Intimate relationships with them are also pretty rare, if I remember correctly, because of the liklihood that (the males, at least) run a high risk of going out to hunt or go to war and never come back.

Thats pretty much as I understand their culture. They would not pair bond to raise young, rather a female would find a male with traits she desires and selects him as a sire. After that it is sayonara and the tribe in general would collectively raise young Kubbitz style. At least that is how I rp'd Lupa's upbringing in Raventusk.

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Not everything.

A soldier who has killed 10,000 people won't flinch at killing 10,000 more.

The mundane to some may be the astronomical to others.

Eroticism? Mundane.

Especially in a Spartan Society like the Horde has. It's a weakness to show, and showing a weakness is wishing for it to be exploited.

Actually Raz hinted to something I've been thinking about. Allot of people don't take race or faction into account. Most people supplant a human's sex drive onto their character which might (depending on which race we are talking about) be unnatural or excessive.

I think a Spartan society more accurately describes the Fel Horde. As demonic foot-soldiers, War *was* everything, and I have no doubt rape and women as baby-mills as well. However, the previous and subsequent Shamanic society is much more tribalistic. Patriarchy may be extant, but with Thrall acting as a modernizing force as sorts (as evidenced in the Crossroads, and less officially by all the female Orc NPCs which seem to be involved in combat)), I'd say the New Horde is not strictly Spartan. The old hold-overs will of course be more prone to chauvinism and warriorship, but I think those would be the minority. The one in-game example of Orc relationships we have is relatively tender, if brutishly slapstick.

Trolls would be mainly patriarchal, and also as a more insular race, less likely to adopt Thrall's reforms as quickly. However, their society was never Spartan. Tauren are tribalistic, and have no evidence of being chauvinistic; it's entirely possible that certain tribes are in fact matriarchal rather than patriarchal, as shown by the Grimtotem. Forsaken likely have little if any interest in sex, or emotional relationships at all. Blood Elves? High Elves were shown as very proper; Blood Elves are more prone to base emotions, so who knows about them. Certainly their relationship with demons seems to have made them fodder for bondage and kinky attitudes. I suppose if it happened to the Romans, it can happen to Elves. Fall from grace seems to be a common tie between the two. <grins>

I'd agree with Raz that open displays of affection are rare in the "majority" of the Horde. Most of the female inhabitants are home-makers, and if they're the minority that have advanced to a higher station, they likely have more important things to do than play kiss kiss. The feel one gets from Horde quests is that there is constant struggle, and a business-like attitude to deal with it. I don't know what it's like Alliance side, but I got the impression from the few quests I did that they have more time to kick back.

As Golden Wolf pointed out, most players impose a humanistic interpretation onto these races, and a Western Eurasian one at that. If you've ever read any anthropology books of different cultures, you'll know, even among the human species, how much difference there can be. I'd likely peg Orcs as being similar (note, not in any way identical) to Mongolian cultures, in their incarnation as a shamanistic culture, Trolls as being a hybrid of Rastafarian, Haitian, Mayan, Incan and Aztec cultures, and Tauren being the sum totality of Native American tribes, primarily Plains? These are all vastly different from contemporary Eurasian society. To actually roleplay accurately in the Warcraft world, erotically or otherwise, I think one needs to take this into account.

Gah, wall of text made me miss responses. Still makes a point, though.

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Tauren are tribalistic, and have no evidence of being chauvinistic; it's entirely possible that certain tribes are in fact matriarchal rather than patriarchal, as shown by the Grimtotem.

Magatha married the Chieftain, and he died soon after in a Bluff Climbing incident. The Grimtotem weren't Matriarchal.

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That's more of a standard put on by their own culture due to the lifestyles they live. They'd probably be able to live hundreds of years as well if they didn't live in such harsh environments or practice such high risk lifestyles. Intimate relationships with them are also pretty rare, if I remember correctly, because of the liklihood that (the males, at least) run a high risk of going out to hunt or go to war and never come back.

Trolls actually have the shortest lifespan of all the playable races, and not because of conflict. Their high metabolism (growing back limbs and such) shortens their lives compared to others. Zul'jin is a special case, being sustained by the Loa for his long life.

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Sometimes. Races like Night Elves and the Blood Elves being the sexbunny races has always seemed weird to me... They live hundreds to thousands of years. The urge to breed really wouldn't be that strong as it would in humans that live, at most, maybe 110 years. If they're really lucky and healthy.
Blood Elves? High Elves were shown as very proper; Blood Elves are more prone to base emotions, so who knows about them. Certainly their relationship with demons seems to have made them fodder for bondage and kinky attitudes. I suppose if it happened to the Romans, it can happen to Elves. Fall from grace seems to be a common tie between the two. <grins>

First, yes, I agree... them bitches is crazy. They were pushed to the brink of extinction and lost the very essence of their being, only to have it supplemented with fel energy instead. Oh yeah, good job!

But it's the brink of extinction that I think helps feed their sexbunniness. Survival of the species. Must procreate!

...and then I realize 90% of blood elves are same-sex oriented and... there goes my theory.

Carry on!

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As Golden Wolf pointed out, most players impose a humanistic interpretation onto these races, and a Western Eurasian one at that. If you've ever read any anthropology books of different cultures, you'll know, even among the human species, how much difference there can be. I'd likely peg Orcs as being similar (note, not in any way identical) to Mongolian cultures, in their incarnation as a shamanistic culture, Trolls as being a hybrid of Rastafarian, Haitian, Mayan, Incan and Aztec cultures, and Tauren being the sum totality of Native American tribes, primarily Plains? These are all vastly different from contemporary Eurasian society. To actually roleplay accurately in the Warcraft world, erotically or otherwise, I think one needs to take this into account.

I have actually done quite a bit of reading into primitive culture. So, yes it is absolutely going to be different. These aren't just different cultures, they are different races with completely different biologies. Rand pointed out that races with extended life spans wouldn't have much of an 'urge' to reproduce. I agree with this to an extent. It is part of the reason that I have never really played any of my Elf characters as being particularly focussed on sex or overt flirtations. My troll, I have just begun reopening my anthropology books and rereading (as mentioned above) about caribbean island tribes, and keeping up with my lore. I don't think it is a "must do" for everyone, but accuracy and immersion is important to me. At least as far as biology goes.

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I am inclined to say that Tauren ARE a race that are fairly 'loose' when it comes to sex simply because they are a more tribal society. If however we're talking about how OFTEN they have it and with how many different people, I think that is a different matter. They strike me as the type to (at least attempt) to find a life partner.

But then, they've been a part of the Horde for a long time now, and you've got to imagine that the actions and characteristics of other races rub off on eachother. I think we've seen hints of that in game already, and I expect to see even more of it come Wrath. Draenei are already adopting Azeroth as their home and its adventurous lifestyle.

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Also, people don't understand the social consequences of sleeping around all the time. Seems to me at least that Blood Elves would look down upon prostitution or its lesser forms big time. For a race (in general) that prefers a proper, aristocratic society, there sure are a lot of tramps.

Well, if we take an anecdotal example from RL, the most sexually repressed cultures also tend to be the most secretly perverse. If we take this into consideration, along with the Blood Elves barely avoiding mass genocide, the culture is ripe for a Sexual Revolution of sorts.

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^ You have a very good point.

However, I think we are ignoring actual hormone production here. For example, I would think that Night Elves... with their extremely long lifespans wouldn't produce the amount of hormone needed to support a strong sex drive. Blood elves even with the mass destruction of their race, that drive would mostly likely not match a humans, and even if it did increase it would be very temporary. Shorter life span equals more reproductive hormone, which equates to wanting to "do it" more.

Hell even humans are oversexed. In much of my anthropological research, most tribes engaged in sexual activity waaaay less than we do. In fact the level to which they abstained would probably boggle the modern mind. But, then again they didn't have their whole environment saturated with it. That is another thing to consider as well. Environment and biology.

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Hell even humans are oversexed. In much of my anthropological research, most tribes engaged in sexual activity waaaay less than we do. In fact the level to which they abstained would probably boggle the modern mind. But, then again they didn't have their whole environment saturated with it. That is another thing to consider as well. Environment and biology.

You'd be surprised by how much many Natives find modern American society to be oversexed. It's so saturated in our media that it's kind of weird. We haven't reached crazy-ass indulgent modern day Rome society yet, but man is it getting there. I wouldn't be surprised to see a vomitorium or two pop up

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I have always been a firm believer that most people play Night elves wrong. That being said, there are two factors to take into thought.

1. They were immortal for 10 thousand years. Ten fucking thousand years where they didn't age or have weakness to illness or poisons. Now they are suddenly and magically NOT immune to life. It -would- spawn a little bit of "oo I need to actually procreate now?" in their race.

2. They were introduced to the human race, which is much younger, has more fun, and fills life with all the fun parts that Night elves wouldn't have thought to think of.

Even still, they should hardly be the sexbunnies they're portrayed as in game. Mae, with all her weirdness with liking every other kind of male but her own race, still isn't a sex bunny. She got married like a good girl ;p

Night elves, and by association all elves, should probably not have quite the sex drive most people play them to have. Mind you, blood elves were nearly wiped off the map, and night elves lost their immortality, but they live 1000 and 800 years, respectively, and they have a LONNG ass time to worry about baby making ;p

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For blood elves, at least, I doubt it would have anything to do with procreation. It's a race whose passions run hot, be it for love, coin, power, or whatever else a given individual happens to desire.

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However, I think we are ignoring actual hormone production here. For example, I would think that Night Elves... with their extremely long lifespans wouldn't produce the amount of hormone needed to support a strong sex drive. Blood elves even with the mass destruction of their race, that drive would mostly likely not match a humans, and even if it did increase it would be very temporary.

Temporary? I don't know about that. That's evolution. That's "nature finding a way". Maybe, after a while, when things start to balance out again, their hormones would change again, and while this (and, in that case, everything else in nature) can be considered a "temporary" thing, I don't think it would qualify as short term. It would likely have to last for at least a generation of successful offspring - but the amount of research into biology and anthropology to find things to back this up with is not really how I want to spend my morning. However, if subscribing to evolution and biological changes, it is rare that things just happen all of a sudden and then disappear all of a sudden - for instance, we still have an appendix, which we haven't really needed since the days before we figured out how to cook meat over the fire... as opposed to growing a third eye and then having it disappear a few years later.

The societal, behavioral, and physiological changes they have had to endure as a result of losing the Sunwell and most of their race is likely not something they would recover from in the 5-6 years since its occurance. If anything, these 5-6 years have served as the building blocks of what they are now, Sin'Dorei, and in what direction they will continue to push, much in the same way the use of Arcane magic is what catalyzed the divergence of the elves 10,000 years ago into Highborne and Kaldorei - and even more rapid changes, such as Highborne into Satyrs, or Sin'Dorei into Wretched or Fel Bloods.

While more biologically complex than frogs or sharks, I don't expect them to suddenly change sex to help "assure their reproductive success" or experience virgin births via The Light or nature, I do expect they are undergoing dramatic physiological changes to compensate for DEWM and behavioral changes that may or may not set a precedent in this new race, as a direct and damaging result of DEWM.

What they have witnessed, what they have endured -not too unlike a war veteran who "wasn't the same man when he came back"- what they were seems less and less a standard to hold them up to, compared to what they are and what they may become.

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For blood elves, at least, I doubt it would have anything to do with procreation. It's a race whose passions run hot, be it for love, coin, power, or whatever else a given individual happens to desire.

While I do think procreation would have some to do with it. Species survival instincts are to procreate when threatened with destruction. I also recognize what Mal is saying here as well. Blood Elves are a culture that has been shaped by vice and addiction. The lust for the almighty high is entrenched in their very physiology. That would include pleasure I would completely expect.

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There is also power to consider. If you are immortal you do not need to raise children to be immortal. You -are- immortal. Barring the odd chance that you may get offed, you don't need to have progeny to follow in your footsteps.

Royalty especially would not bother with having many children because more children means more hassle when Princeling Six Hundred and Twelve wants to have a piece of the pie. A big part of reproduction is considerations inheritance. As a leader in a society where inheritance is passed through blood, you would not necessarily want to have hundreds of children (which is easily possible in OUR human lifetimes) because you will run into issues where the children will squabble and kill eachother over who gets what should you get offed accidentally.

I can't imagine Sin'Dorei/Quel'Dorei having huge families. For one thing, their respective societies would have been stable. When there is no death except by accident, there is no need to grow the population. That being said, there was a huge war event not that long ago where many died. Death, likely to an immortal, could have the effect where they are as wanton and slutty as we make them out to be. We know that's not part of their motivations though. That's OUR motivations as players. But that's a moot point.

Unfortunately I only have human cultures to compare to and no human culture is immortal. So it's definitely a case of apples to oranges.

When it comes to Quel'Dorei and Sin'Dorei there were some questions I needed answered that I highly doubt Blizzard would ever answer. The design of their cities is definitely Arabian. Would then their culture be somewhat based on the Arabic world? Their obsession with magic, would they have different forms of birth control based on magic? Would they consider same-sex relationships taboo?

Here's the heavy. Would they consider incestuous relationships as taboo? Remember... you live forever. The taboo against incestuous relationships in our culture is based on the superstition that we all think it's gross and babies are going to have six arms when they pop out. But that's not what genetics proves. Having sex with your sibling means that any genetic trait of your family will be more likely to occur. So if your family has a history of six arms, then the percentage of the six arms occurring will be high. My question is that in a society where you live forever, wouldn't it be a smart idea for siblings to stay together so their land isn't torn asunder when/if their parents die?

Hell we don't really know that they are born or not just grown out of magic as babies. No matter how I click, the orphan lady in the Lower City won't explain the facts of life to me.

Also if someone has the D20 book, I know they wrote up some half-assed thing it. Would you be able to cut and paste?

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Also if someone has the D20 book, I know they wrote up some half-assed thing it. Would you be able to cut and paste?

I'll check it when I get home later this afternoon.

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