Abric

[Discussion] Higher forms of writing?

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Whoa, wait a minute. Did some folks just say that cyber sex is a higher form of writing? I thought I just read that. Did I read that? I'm curious about that line of thought.

My ability to describe my penis in three different ways puts me on a higher pedestal than your normal writer? Is that above or below Stephen King?

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Whoa, wait a minute. Did some folks just say that cyber sex is a higher form of writing? I thought I just read that. Did I read that? I'm curious about that line of thought.

My ability to describe my penis in three different ways puts me on a higher pedestal than your normal writer? Is that above or below Stephen King?

ERP in my opinion is a higher form because anyone can witness and be good at RP. Seeing Rp, picking up words, ideas, subjects and all that, through my experience is the best way of learning how to RP. But in ERP, I've experienced someone who was simply amazing at RP but was horrible at ERP and admitted it because he didn't have much experience with it. To experience is to learn and to learn is to perfect. You don't watch people ERP all the time (maybe) and so you can't really get a good grasp at it. It requires a lot of additional RP education to get into (if you're into ERP). Some people prefer to not ERP, others don't mind it then there's those who seek it out specifically. From my own experience the best RP'ers were also amazing at ERP.

The reason why I think ERP is a higher form is because it's a whole different field of RP. Sure you're limited to description words of a penis, however actions, emotions, small phrases and creativity so it's not repeatative isn't so easy. Not to mention if you have a boyfriend/girlfriend who you ERP with often or whatever, you don't want your ERP to be boring using the same words, same blah blah blah. Just the same as normal RP. You need to mix it up, only it's far more difficult when you're restricted to sexual terms and ideas. With normal Rp you're left to be more creative and use of virtually anything you want to enhance your story or current position of event(s).

Maybe I just like my ERP too much and put it on a pedestal higher then normal RP. But to my experience, if you're good at ERP, you're even better at RP because you've expanded your horizons of different styles of RP. Actions are a lot harder to do in emotes than quick thoughts or bursts of speech.

/end ramble x.x

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The reason why I think ERP is a higher form is because it's a whole different field of RP.

ERP is a different field of RP. That doesn't mean its a "higher form". At all. I consider them to be two completley different things. Some may be awful at RP, but wonderful with ERP. Or vise versa. By NO means is ERP a "higher form" of RPing. Just a DIFFERENT form.

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From my own experience the best RP'ers were also amazing at ERP.

First, the key phrase here is "from my own experience."

Second, the latter half of the sentence provides a clue as to why the amazing ERPers were amazing. They were already good RPers. A good RPer can RP well in any situation.

ERP isn't a higher form of writing. Some people write good sex scenes. Some people write good battle scenes. It's a matter of taste and temperament. I suspect that those who think ERP is a higher form of writing think so because of the emotional investment they have in it—the passion for it, the thrill of it, whatever. Even if you're not sexually aroused while participating in ERP, the only reason I can think for people to continue to cyber for extended periods of time is the emotional exhilaration they feel.

You say it's harder because it's more restrictive? I say that makes it easier. You don't need to worry about plot, setting, or character development. There's a formula already in place. People know what they want when they get into it, and judge it based on how well their expectations are met. Fun fact: Stories posted by an unknown name in the now-defunct Adult Tales and Art section were more likely to be read and responded to than stories posted by an unknown name in the Nether Legends section. The standards for porn are lower than the standards for regular writing.

I'll agree it's difficult to do well, but so is any form of writing. As mentioned above, chances are that if you're a good role-player, your sex scenes will be good. So will all your other scenes. Having cyber-sex as some sort of standard for RP is ridiculous. Are actors in the real world less talented if they never perform a sex scene on film?

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. Sure you're limited to description words of a penis.

Or simply don't describe it in any significant detail at all. Let the other player run wild with their own imagination. I would think getting caught in some description contest with yourself would just end up becoming silly.

EDIT: Also concur with Izrail.

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The reason why I think ERP is a higher form is because it's a whole different field of RP. Sure you're limited to description words of a penis, however actions, emotions, small phrases and creativity so it's not repeatative isn't so easy. Not to mention if you have a boyfriend/girlfriend who you ERP with often or whatever, you don't want your ERP to be boring using the same words, same blah blah blah. Just the same as normal RP. You need to mix it up, only it's far more difficult when you're restricted to sexual terms and ideas. With normal Rp you're left to be more creative and use of virtually anything you want to enhance your story or current position of event(s).

So what you're saying is

The reason why I think ERP is a higher form is because requires the use of a thesaurus.

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So what you're saying is: The reason why I think ERP is a higher form is because requires the use of a thesaurus.

Would it just be easier if I said a more entertaining form for me instead of you being blatantly rude about it?

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Good catch, Izrail. Should of made an off-shot topic instead of responding to the other one. My mistake!

Now, I'm not cracking on folks, much like Raziel isn't, I just find it interesting that people (plural, more than one person) find that cyber sex is some path to a better storyteller. I mean, if cyber sex (let's call it how it is, folks - roleplaying or not, you are having sex over the internet) is your bag, more power to you. But consider it somehow a better route for a better RPer? Or, to be less confrontational - a more experienced RPer.

If you are a good writer, and you like to write about doing nasty things in Silvermoon, I think you can put those energies just as much into the High Fantasy setting that World of Warcraft is supposed to be (was, is, going to be again?) We're in a game of magic, demons, and dragons - not court love, romance, and multi-armed monsters with tentacles for a face.

People will play what they want to play. If you want to have imaginary sex with that hot blonde blood elf - then good for you. But, don't you think you are cheating yourself? Aren't we past AOL and being 14 years old with our very first computers? Aren't we self-styled 'elitists' in the internet community, who immerse ourselves in our characters, to develop them and develop the world around us?

... personally, the excitement and 'taboo' feeling of slipping my tube steak into a fake woman lost its appeal once I got broadband and was able to watch it instead. What i don't get is an epic battle between good and evil, friend and foe - fighting for the life of my country (see: Horde) and for my people's free will (see: Forsaken) against the enemies of the world (see: Scourge.)

If I find during my fight that I meet a girl and the passion and drive is there? Awesome - but aren't we going to get more of a thrill in keeping with that storyline, instead of falling into the B-rated films of having the sex, and just falling into calling each other pet names, instead of fighting our enemies?

I guess that's more a question than a comment. Does that not "do it" for folks? The allure of passion in combat just not as much as describing "my heaving bosom presses against your chest, for I am lost in the heat of your lust."

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Higher form of writing? Depends. It takes someone skilled to divide the lines between something smutty and something actually arousing and erotic to read. Therein lies the twist.

My experience with ERP has been this: It can be far better than the real thing. That said, I have only actually done it a small handful of times with someone I trusted, however... it gave me a level of eroticism and romance that no living breathing man has ever given me. And that my friends, is very sad.

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I do not participate in nor, for the most part, enjoy ERP. I never visited the Adult forum when it existed. That said, I'll play the devil's advocate.

"ERP", just like normal RP, is going to mean something different to all the participants. "Erotic" does not necessarily mean "pornographic". I've certainly seen my fair share of porn that was not erotic at all. In pursuing such, one can be trying to take things to a hightened emotional level. After all, I know I've had a girl I really cared about look me in the eyes and show an expression on her face that I knew was just for "us" that was much more erotic and exciting than, say, some chick I met at a bar sticking her hand down my pants and leading me off somewhere private.

While ERP has certainly earned itself a bad name from practitioner screaming about their naughty-in-public RP being griefed to 40-year-old douchebags trying to e-rape players they know damn well are young kids, not all ERP is creepy or even lustful. I've stumbed across some pockets of ERP here and there that were actually quite tender and moving. Conveying that kind of emotion over the internet is not easy. I'm not sure I'm ready to say that it's harder to write than a good non-erotic RP exchange, but I wouldn't dismiss it as "anyone can write porn", especially when a good portion of it really is not porn.

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Lets be honest as Abric pointed out for the most part ERP is cyber sex, and to push it even more into the realm of the real it's almost never ever about the story itself. It's about typing out something dirty to get yourself going for good old lefty or righty or I suppose a threesome if you are ambidextrous.

We can all pretend no no it's about the romance, and yes I am sure it is in about what 1% of all ERP things. Now I am not saying oh there is something horrible about doing so, porn is the devil, or whatever else you are supposed to be told by your parents and school when you are growing up.

So no, ERP for the most part is just cybering action to get you turned on, that is not a high form of RP and not really what falls into the form of roleplaying at all. Now if you are one of those 1% people (We all are right?) that actually just have it as a story and that's all it honestly is then it could in fact be some good RP but I think that would require much more love and affection than what mostly occurs as the screams of "Fuck me harder!" from the back alleys of Silvermoon.

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ERP != Romance RP.

Romance can be RPed out to be something actually entertaining without involving sex. In a any setting, it's unrealistic to think that there wouldn't be lasting and deep relationships that form between two characters.

Also, being a good writer involves being adept at writing both a romantic scene as well as a battle scene.

I'm not one to say that one is "higher" than the other, but to call them the same is... well... wrong right now.

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I'm curious--where would you say the line is that divides romantic RP from ERP? I've always defined it as the actual explicit roleplay of the sexual act, but from reading some of the responses here it sounds as though others' definitions might differ slightly. So I'm curious.

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I'm curious--where would you say the line is that divides romantic RP from ERP? I've always defined it as the actual explicit roleplay of the sexual act, but from reading some of the responses here it sounds as though others' definitions might differ slightly. So I'm curious.

Therein lies the rub. I was on an alt about a year ago out in Feralas and saw "lol. belf cyber in the round thingy" in general chat. I was waiting to run some friends through Dire Maul, so I rode out to check on it. A few more jibes popped into General before I got there. What I came across was an emotional exchange between two fully clothed male belfs. I know both of them IC and OOC and know that their belf males are rather poofy. Yes, there were some emotes that may have implied some kind of physical intimacy, but nothing even close to cyber. I know both of them to be involved in a fair amount of RP that gets classified as ERP and yet I've never thought of either of them as typing one handed with the other jammed into their crotch. They take what they're doing seriously (for the most part) and express emotions other than bloodlust, pride, or other "typical and acceptable" Horde emotions.

As stated earlier, this isn't something I subscribe to. I play hardened killers that shower in blood and eat babies with gusto. Yes, there are people out there that are just cybering, however, I'd hardly even call that ERP. It is, well, Cyber. I think ERP is something more involved than cyber. It's emotional first but often physical, as well. Everyone is going to define it differently. I find it grossly unfair to pigeonhole it as 99% porn/cyber, especially if it's something you've never really experienced or otherwise been involved with. I know a lot more people that participate in ERP for an emotional "rush" over any kind of physical stimulation.

Now, all that said, I am NOT an advocate for ERP, especially in WoW. There are plenty of other outlets for that sort of thing that don't involve sharing a game world with children who may not be ready for this level of emotional intensity. In addition to the obvious legal / moral concerns that go along with the subject, I find it just generally detracts from the actual game aspect. I can't even begin to count the number of times a certain pair of late-night playing belfs I know have ignored my group requests, including direct addresses of them by name, because they were sharing some silly fru-fru "intimate moment" and couldn't be bothered to respond to their guildmaster's request for aid.... of course, I'm not an advocate of ANY kind of RP that prevents you from also actually PLAYING THE DAMNED GAME.

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Romance can be RPed out to be something actually entertaining without involving sex. In a any setting, it's unrealistic to think that there wouldn't be lasting and deep relationships that form between two characters.

Similarly, it's unrealistic to think that there wouldn't be sexual relationships of all kinds within a militaristic fantasy setting. From romance to one-night stands, awkward first times to violent rapes, conventional to taboo, the entire spectrum would be present in any setting—except worlds in which all creatures are asexual. What aspects of life you include in your role-play is up to you and the character you create, of course, but to blindly deny all sexuality because it's a high fantasy setting is absurd. As a warlock, I'm in a unique position to demonstrate the reality of sex within the WoW setting. Her name is Selthea.

Back to the concept of ERP being a higher form of writing. Those who say they have expanded their RP abilities through ERP are encouraged to apply the creativity they exercise there in other forms of story-telling. If you excel at role-playing sex while keeping your partner(s) engaged on an intellectual level, I'd like to see what kind of diversity you can bring to stories others are more likely to enjoy participating in. The server could always use more epic RP. Don't limit yourself to epic humping.

Also, I hypocritically endorse the following statement.

I'm not an advocate of ANY kind of RP that prevents you from also actually PLAYING THE DAMNED GAME.

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anything that challenges you will take you to the next level of writing. if you find it easy to write about your penis in an erotic and stimulating way, then cyber probably gets boring for you really quickly. if however you find enjoyment in describing the round curve of a breast or a thigh a delight, and you like learning to linger with such things in writing as much as you do in real life, then by all means...writing it can indeed be a higher form for that person.

some ppl want to write out a battle scene. they want to share with you where every drop of blood went, where every blade landed, every blow struck. and i bet they write it really well. meh, it's not what i want to read.

i don't ERP. i roleplay an adult who does adult things as a 'part' of her whole experience. i like it. and it challenges my writing abilities in the field in which i intend to succeed - adult erotica. so for me, it is a higher form. it wouldn't be for the battle ppl. just makes sense, right?

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Erotic

Let's not mistake romantic storylines and relationships with ERP. What Malebrignon has said, I do agree with... except for the hand down the pants thing, that doesn't happen to Male - he's a virgin.

Romance is a good thing, and can lead to some very good storytelling. Though once you desire to take it to the next step, a proper and well played "fade to black" is something I feel makes a higher caliber player than dropping your drawers and letting the trouser snake loose.

Or member. Or hot, throbbing manhood. Or your sex stick. Or, my personal favorite, the Sword of a Thousand Truths.

SOMEBODY LOVE ME!!!

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...it gave me a level of eroticism and romance that no living breathing man has ever given me. And that my friends, is very sad.

Yes... that is very sad. I need to go punch some men you've met in real life.

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Yes... that is very sad. I need to go punch some men you've met in real life.

Sad? ..or Hilarious!

I mean, I adamantly refuse to write in romance or sex into my stories. I find it degrading and against my conservative roots.

But I've done the internet nasty before *shrugs* Back in the day I was quite the charming young man about the internet. Then when I hit 21, I just stopped. No longer had a need to once I was actually getting the real stuff regularly. I mean, why cyber a girl when you can just ..heh.. LARP it?

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Sad? ..or Hilarious!

I mean, I adamantly refuse to write in romance or sex into my stories. I find it degrading and against my conservative roots.

But I've done the internet nasty before *shrugs* Back in the day I was quite the charming young man about the internet. Then when I hit 21, I just stopped. No longer had a need to once I was actually getting the real stuff regularly. I mean, why cyber a girl when you can just ..heh.. LARP it?

I lol'd.

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ERP is part of the reason roleplayers have brought such a stigma on themselves from "normal" people.

If you regulate your own roleplaying I have no problem with your erotic lesbian vampire threesomes, but keep it regulated. This is a family game and that prying rogue who stumbles upon your fun in Silvermoon could be a 12 year old kid. In other words, keep it in private channels.

But considering ERP a "higher form" of roleplaying from traditional writing sounds hilariously pretentious and self-congratulatory. Writing is writing. Subject matter has little to do with the quality of it.

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