Marrus_Luminus

[A} [Yet-To-Be-Named Coalition of Guilds]

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If it hasn't already been done, can we get someone to update the in-game invite to reflect that people should come check this out before the meeting so they can be prepared? I am not at home so I can't check who made the invite/if this has been done already! D:

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Why establish a code of conduct? If we want a strong community, a place that will attract and retain quality roleplayers, first and foremost we need to shape its culture as someplace folks will want to be.

Having a code of conduct promotes peace and confidence within the community. When standards are set, even ones we’d hope everyone would follow without being told to, community members feel more comfortable because they know exactly what is expected of them and what they can expect of others. New members curious about or just entering the community can trust that there is a system in place to prevent toxicity from growing, and violators can be held accountable with no question that they knew they were violating the code.

I encourage folks to respond with posts about being either for or against a code of conduct, and below is a draft both for consideration and as an example of what a code of conduct might look like, cobbled from various roleplaying communities I’ve helped organize in the past. Any and all points are up for discussion, modification, or being left out, and entirely new and separate codes are welcomed to be put forth for consideration and discussion as well.

In the end, perhaps we can vote for if we want a code of conduct or not, and if we decide we do, then vote between various versions. I’d be glad to help coordinate this effort.

Code of Conduct Submission #1 v1.0

Roleplaying Conventions

1. Involve yourself with others and they will be happy to return the favor!

2. Only describe your character's actions and let others decide theirs. (No god-modding)

3. Keep out-of-character and in-character knowledge separate. (No metagaming)

4. Respect and do your best to support a player’s decision to change guilds.

Constructive Attitudes

1. Be prepared to work around mistakes or inconsistencies that occur in roleplay.

2. When conflicting interests arise out of character, be solution-oriented and ready to work together to find a resolution.

3. Ensure in-character interactions aren't taken personally. When an antagonistic scene occurs, communicate OOC to ensure that everyone is willing and having a satisfactory roleplay session.

4. Separate yourself from drama and do not be a person who fosters it.

5. Accept that not all personality types mesh well and minimize negative influences.

Anti-Harassment

1. All of Blizzard’s rules are to be followed, which means no harassment, stalking, or threats.

2. No attacking cross-faction RP events.

3. Respect the mature language guidelines as defined by the organizer of a group or event.

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Very nicely put. I normally wouldn't agree with the last rule, but the way you worded it sounds like a good compromise.

The only problem I can foresee is enforcement. By handing authoritative power to any governmental body you relinquish, even if by just some degree, the freedom of choice. What will be the consequence of breaking one of these rules? Would a player be banned from any coalition events? Who will be given the power to banish an RPer from the Coalition? This code of conduct will bring about much more rule making which may go against some of the stated goals of the coalition to begin with. Mainly that each guild has complete autonomy and that if a ban is enforced on say... a guild leader or officer, it may turn into an enormous political mess. Even though passing this code may seem purely altruistic, please keep in mind that you'll be opening up a Pandora's box to the crafting of what could become a gigantic, litigious set of rules, consequences, and guidelines that in the end, not everyone will agree upon... such is the nature of democracy.

Devil's Advocate aside, these rules seem pretty easy to follow and many would consider them common courtesy. If any rules do get passed, I don't really have any qualms with any of the rules listed above.

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How a code of conduct would be enforced is a good question. One lovely thing to consider is that just having a code established will actually reduce the number of incidents all by itself. Sometimes all people need is a reminder of acceptable behavior and they will keep themselves in line.

The next thing to consider is that there isn’t likely going to be a need for a litigation process. Once you have the atmosphere established, the community defends itself. Here is an example of what usually happens: Someone starts doing something unacceptable, and gets pressured or even asked outright to stop. They either do, or they refuse to comply and lash back, but find no support. Inevitably if this person doesn’t adjust their behavior, they leave the community on their own as they are treated as unwanted and stop having fun there. Most of the time, they settle down, though, because they realize they’d rather be included than be a jerk. I’ve seen this sort of scenario play out in many ways, and that’s why I know it’s important to define the atmosphere so that the community is healthy enough to defend itself.

And honestly, there’s no way to enforce things like “respect a player’s decision to change guilds” or “separate yourself from drama”. What that even means on a case-by-case basis, you won’t find two opinions the same. The idea is that people will recognize a common spirit of decency once it’s been defined, and the community will embrace that and start sifting out the rest.

So the answer is that a code of conduct doesn’t really get “enforced” in a community like this. There’s no judge or jury or infractions or suspensions. The power lies in having a code, and defining the atmosphere, which all on its own brings a significant benefit to the health and peace of the community.

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I agree 100%. Self monitoring is the solution and the consequences of parting with these social guide lines should be enforced through a more organic means, such as your example above. As long as these rules don't cater to any particular special interests and are only self-enforced, then there shouldn't be a problem. Be forewarned however, the moment someone proposes a more authoritative avenue of enforcement, this alliance will begin to tear itself apart. Let's keep the core principles of this coalition intact and the pieces will fall into place rather than fall apart.

Does anyone have any problems with the rules listed above or have anything new to add? Please remember that the discussions happen on the forums while the final votes on these decisions are voted on during meeting days. Your participation is key in building the coalition that you want to be a part of.

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Sadly, Tuuroto has been ill for the past week or so, Cup and Blade Caravan has not really had a chance to discuss much. I do agree with the Code of Conduct as stated by Siané, it matches quite a few of our guild rules. :) Most important is to be respectful. Of course!

I have my mic working, I think. I hope it does not echo as much as it does without headphones - I could not find anywhere on the TS website that tells a simple way to fix echo. >.<

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TODAY'S MEETING: MONDAY OCTOBER 26th, 2015 @ 7:30PM Server Time. At the Pig and Whistle Tavern in Stormwind. (Contact any of the guild leaders on the master lists for invites!)

GUILD LEADS AND RP OFFICERS: Be sure to appoint a representative for your guild to take the floor to voice your concerns and ideas.

ETERNAL AEGIS RULES OF ORDER:

1) Only one person may have the floor at a time. (Raid Chat)

2) Keep miscellaneous chatter off raid chat (use RP or Other channels)

3) The host is the only member who can grant the floor to someone wishing to speak.

4) Any new ideas or proposals should be held for the appropriate time. (At the end of each committee's presentation)

AGENDA

-General Committee:

---Code of Conduct Vote

---New Sub-Forum Organization (Update)

---Misc. & Other Ideas

-RP Committee:

---(IC Channel, Linking of Coms and reasoning behind such a channel OOC & IC)

---(RP Workshop Clarification)

---Misc. & Other Ideas

-PvE Committee:

---(Open Discussion and proposition of Ideas)

-PvP Committee:

---PvP Committee Report

---wPvP: World Defense Nights

---rBG Coordination

---Arena Coordination

---Misc. & Other Ideas

-Proposals and Ideas:

--_(?????)

Another thing to keep in mind is that the coalition, for the time being, does not exist ICly yet. That will be up to the RP committee to formulate. Try to consider these meetings as informal gatherings hosted by the different guilds until an RP reason for the coalition to exist is created. For the time being, if any guild or independent RPer would like to propose something ICly, the RP portion of the meeting (gathering) will be reserved for the end of the meeting.

Thank you all for attending and supporting the coalition. With every event you host or attend, our numbers grow and our calendars fill. In addition to our own guilds' events, the events hosted by other guilds and members within the coalition give us something to do almost everyday of the week. Great work, everyone!

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Looks like we're on track to getting the forums re-organized. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks again to Keraph and Mortica for the support.

Just FYI, this is still happening but I've just been very busy IRL and haven't been on the site much! Expect faction-specific boards with multiple subforums in the near future :D

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I’m sorry to leave TS so abruptly last night – it was past my bedtime, and I did not want to interrupt the heated debate. :(

We cannot force people to use this forum. GLs even have trouble getting guild members to use a guild website. >.< We can only suggest, and do not want to be exclusionary.

We especially cannot force people to use TeamSpeak. TS (and this forum) are not necessary to play WoW, or to RP. Along with the very real threat of being trolled, stalked or harassed, there are people in this world who may have a handicap, or an older computer, or they just do not want to voice chat. We must respect players’ privacy for whatever reason.

Here is my suggestion: At the beginning of each meeting, recap what has been decided so far. Including what was decided a month ago. Maybe make a macro? I think that this might go a long way toward relieving some confusion, and help with the fact that not all will use the forums or TS. We do not need a lot of detail, just the basics: (( “We are The Coalition, we have a Code of Conduct, we have Radios for /join TheCoalition, we voted to blah-blah, details are posted at wow-tng.org” )) or something along this line. Also repeat the recap a bit later in the meeting, for latecomers. Some might still not use the forum, but at least they will have more information and knowledge, and hopefully less confusion.

And if I missed any RP cues last night, I am sorry. It is hard for me to concentrate on voice, plus Raid, plus RP. Is it assumed that we all received radio units?

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I’m sorry to leave TS so abruptly last night – it was past my bedtime, and I did not want to interrupt the heated debate. :(

We cannot force people to use this forum. GLs even have trouble getting guild members to use a guild website. >.< We can only suggest, and do not want to be exclusionary.

We especially cannot force people to use TeamSpeak. TS (and this forum) are not necessary to play WoW, or to RP. Along with the very real threat of being trolled, stalked or harassed, there are people in this world who may have a handicap, or an older computer, or they just do not want to voice chat. We must respect players’ privacy for whatever reason.

Here is my suggestion: At the beginning of each meeting, recap what has been decided so far. Including what was decided a month ago. Maybe make a macro? I think that this might go a long way toward relieving some confusion, and help with the fact that not all will use the forums or TS. We do not need a lot of detail, just the basics: (( “We are The Coalition, we have a Code of Conduct, we have Radios for /join TheCoalition, we voted to blah-blah, details are posted at wow-tng.org” )) or something along this line. Also repeat the recap a bit later in the meeting, for latecomers. Some might still not use the forum, but at least they will have more information and knowledge, and hopefully less confusion.

And if I missed any RP cues last night, I am sorry. It is hard for me to concentrate on voice, plus Raid, plus RP. Is it assumed that we all received radio units?

I was on TS last night and I can assure you that you didnt' miss anything. Everything that needed to be discussed, as well as replies from everyone, was handled in raid chat.

But you are right. We can't force anyone to use these forums or TS. However, I think if you want to be an effective committee/coalition member and rep for your guild, you should use at least these forums to help discuss and deliberate things. Remember, the Coalition meetings are mainly for decision making, not debating the entire night. That night is meant for results and things set in stone, debating and deliberating is meant for the time in between.

TS is all up to you. These forums, should be bookmarked for all guild reps. Should, not mandatory. But if things are being discussed and you don't participate, you risk not staying up to date or making well informed votes when we do meet back up as The Coalition.

Marrus did a good job recapping and that might become something standard because we usually do have people joining the meetings that aren't reps, so they might not know what's going on.

And yes, each guild rep did get a radio to start using /TheCoalition channel IC

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It's alright, Beryl. We understand. I too stayed up past my bedtime to add to the debate last night. :\

So just to clarify a few points you made:

-Nobody has to participate in the forums if they wish not to. The delegates for each guild are responsible for giving input for their guild, if your guild chooses not to participate, then you are voluntarily forfeiting your guilds input on any discussions that are occurring on the forums. The forums are the simplest and most neutral grounds in which to conduct these discussions. Due to conflicting schedules, the forums are the most efficient way to have these discussions publicly.

-We also established that we won't be using teamspeak to conduct any coalition business anymore. Teamspeak is just another tool available for those who wish to speak or talk off to the side about what's going on. All coalition business was conducted in raid chat.

On your suggestions:

-Recaps are a great idea and should be used by the host for the reasons you stated.

-For clarification: Discussions are held on the forums, decisions are made at the meetings.

And yes, we can assume as everyone walked out of the meeting, Nathaniel was handing out the radios to everyone. /join TheCoalition

It is now safe to use TheCoalition channel ICly if you wish.

Great suggestions and questions. If I missed anything let me know :)

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I have one other comment: I do not think that the people who are not posting on the forums are all doing this intentionally. Some may not be aware. Maybe we can spam RP chat with the addresses to the forums. (TNG and RHS)

Here is why: I transferred Beryl to TN from Trollbane-US (PvE). I was looking for RP, I have RP’d for years. It took me over a year of being on TN to find Alliance RP, and that was thanks to Haxa. The player told me about RP chat. :) From there, I joined Dusk Watch, and then met Tuuroto, and eventually many of you. I learned about TNG while playing Horde side.

The point is that this stuff is not well-advertised.

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Sorry my mistake. I meant to post something about this last night. We recently got two guilds expressing interest in participating in the Coalition, which is awesome! However, this does bring up a legitimate concern: Should there be a mechanism in place to prevent someone from starting a guild, gaining a seat on a committee, simply for the purpose of swaying a vote one way or another. After which, the guild no longer participates in coalition matters, but was able to manipulate the votes on a particular issue. The concern is not participation or input of ideas, but rather manipulation of our democratic process. To this end, we need ideas guys.

Some Ideas Brought Up Last Night

-Minimum Membership Number?

-Participation Quota?

-etc etc

What could be put in place to prevent the aforementioned manipulation from happening? Though it is not likely to occur, it would be IMO irresponsible to not already have a contingency in place for such an occurrence.

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I don't think a membership cap should be placed on new guilds wanting to join, simply because some guilds are small and perhaps that is their IC RP even; to remain so. However, I do think that there should be active participation. If you notice someone coming to vote but never participating in anything else outside of those votes, perhaps it can be stated that the Coalition reserves the rights to take that seat of power away under such and such situations? There could even be a trial period for new guilds wishing to join, in where they are active but hold no voting power until a certain number of weeks go by? That would allow for the Coalition to see how involved they want to be and if they are here to stay. Just a few thoughts on the matter! I agree that it's not likely to occur, everyone on RH-TN in the RP community seems awesome. But, just in case sort of thing, I agree that it's nice to have the contingency plan.

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Do we really want to do a roll call every meeting and calculate attendance percentages? That's an administrative burden and we should be loathe to increase those unless absolutely necessary. A minimum membership can be difficult to determine as well. First issue, would alts count? For example, I have a character in EA and TE – do I get counted twice? Then, how active do you have to be to count? How do you measure that?

But most significantly, in my opinion, it's going to be a non-issue. You can invent ways to game the system all day long, but in practice everyone's going to know it when they see it – if it even happens. You'd have to have a certain level of obsession to really commit to something like that and most people are not going to. (Let's not talk about he-who-must-not-be-named, whom I would hope would be thrown out outright.)

In short, anyone who tried to do something like that and then tried to claim the justification of "there's no rule that says I can't!" isn't someone we'd want around anyway and could be denied simply on basis of evident bad faith, according to our code of conduct.

Lastly, I would advise against establishing additional rules in general for two reasons: one, it can be exclusive by hitting those it wasn't meant to restrict; and two, having more rules means more people worrying about breaking the rules, either themselves unintentionally and the animosity that would bring, or worrying about others breaking the rules, which promotes an unfriendly, Big Brother-esque environment. Not to be hyperbolic – obviously one or two rules wouldn't get *that* bad, and obviously rules are necessary sometimes. But do consider the dampening impact any additional requirements or restrictions would have on the atmosphere, even if minor, and weigh their usefulness accordingly.

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There could even be a trial period for new guilds wishing to join, in where they are active but hold no voting power until a certain number of weeks go by? That would allow for the Coalition to see how involved they want to be and if they are here to stay.

I could get behind a trial period. That seems fair.

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