Aksles

Timeline question

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So, I want to know for RP sake... Roughly, how much time has passed since the Sundering? Because sure magic is awesome, but massive changes to cities etc don't happen overnight.

Any ideas?

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2 years since the fall of the Lich King is all I know.

Hrmm... okay cool. It's something to go on. Maybe I'll harass the GM's on the Blizz forums and see if I can get an answer.

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About 10,000 years. (I think it's more like 10,009 at this point, considering time since WoW started).

I know when the Second Invasion by the Burning Legion happened (the Third War), it was on the rough anniversary of 10,000 years since they were beaten the first time.

Illidan references that he was sealed for 10,000 years before he was released in Warcraft III during the Burning Crusade Cinematic. Illidan was imprisoned not long after the Sundering due to creating the magic pool the World Tree is now growing in.

There's a very good timeline at http://www.wowwiki.com/Timeline_%28unofficial%29. It's the one I go by, as it considers a variety of sources.

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2 years since the fall of the Lich King is all I know.

Where are you getting that?

Metzen referenced Outland as 2 years ago, not the fall of the Lich King.

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2 years since the fall of the Lich King is all I know.

If you don't have sources, don't say it. This is how the RP community gets discrepancies with timelines.

As it stands, there is no solid timeframe between the Lich King's death and the Sundering. Sadly, it will probably have only been a few weeks to a month, if that.

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The normal progression has been 1 year between the start of each game, however that can always change. I have heard many date ranges from LK death to DW attack, from a few weeks to 10 years. I agree with Emyi of it sadly being shorter than you would expect. I am hoping it is around a year since Lich King died and 2 years since assault on Northrend started.

Hopefully Blizz will update the timeline on their site to at least give a base.

Anyone know if "The Shattering" mentioned any time frames?

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The Sundering was about 10,000 years ago, as Zeeky said

The Shattering happened overnight, essentially. However, most of the other changes such as places being built or upgraded were in place longer than that and we're to assume several months.

And as always, the expansion is set approx one year from the last.

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The Sundering was about 10,000 years ago, as Zeeky said

The Shattering happened overnight, essentially. However, most of the other changes such as places being built or upgraded were in place longer than that and we're to assume several months.

And as always, the expansion is set approx one year from the last.

This. There's still some information holes (why rebuild a perfectly fine city) that we need to fill.

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This. There's still some information holes (why rebuild a perfectly fine city) that we need to fill.

Well, in the case of Ogrimmar - Hellscream returned from Northrend with literal boatloads of Saronite that the Horde was using to reinforce the city. I'd imagine there had also just been general renovations.

In the case of Stormwind, I haven't seen it in person, but I'd imagine aside from the change to the keep and the lack of the park, most of what's going on is just a "This is how it should have been"

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In the case of Stormwind, I haven't seen it in person, but I'd imagine aside from the change to the keep and the lack of the park, most of what's going on is just a "This is how it should have been"

Pretty much, yeah. They really didn't IC rebuild anything like with Orgrimmar, Blizzard just updated Stormwind to probably how they always wanted it.

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Stormwind still isn't actually how it appears, there's no way that city can hold 30 thousand people, which is the official population. I doubt you could fit thirty thousand people in all of Azeroth as it appears in game.

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Stormwind still isn't actually how it appears, there's no way that city can hold 30 thousand people, which is the official population. I doubt you could fit thirty thousand people in all of Azeroth as it appears in game.

Thats cause it's a game! :D

Oh and magic.

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Stormwind still isn't actually how it appears, there's no way that city can hold 30 thousand people, which is the official population. I doubt you could fit thirty thousand people in all of Azeroth as it appears in game.

Imagine the lag!

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So basically the blue post states 'loll shit's been changing over the years guys, this shit didn't happen over night, but there's been no real time skip'.

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Yeah, so, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who notices that THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SHATTERING AND THE SUNDERING.

The lore nerd in me gets agitated every time I hear "Sundering" in connection with 4.0.3a.

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Stormwind still isn't actually how it appears, there's no way that city can hold 30 thousand people, which is the official population. I doubt you could fit thirty thousand people in all of Azeroth as it appears in game.

Probably because it was a game. I'm fairly sure anyone could have discerned that I meant: "How they imagined it would look in game" not "How it would be in real life"

Because it's a game.

Yup.

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Yeah, so, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who notices that THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SHATTERING AND THE SUNDERING.

The lore nerd in me gets agitated every time I hear "Sundering" in connection with 4.0.3a.

What IS the Sundering then? Because that's what they're calling the giant hole in STV

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What IS the Sundering then? Because that's what they're calling the giant hole in STV

The Sundering was when the continents originally broke into two pieces. You know, back when the Night Elves screwed everything up.

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If the question is more about the Shattering itself, then I propose a reconciliation timeline based on what we know in Christie Golden's Novel along with in-game events (a difficult mashup, as there's a lot in the Novel we didnt' see in the game - which I wish like fel we had. lol)

Basically, I stand by that there - between patch 4.0 and 4.03A (Cataclysm Tuesday) - has obviously been a one or two month period.

Starting with what we know:

- Lich King falls - Many Azerothian months ago (best represented in real time).

- While he's falling - Ruby Sanctum marks the first 'advance' of Twilight Forces. The events of the Shattering, I think, really seem to begin with that offensive. Heroes beat it down.

- As that's going on, and after, in a period of Azerothian Months, events have been building as the Horde and Alliance pack up and come home. They both leave skeleton crews in Northrend to keep watch over whatever may come (from The Burger King.)

- The Trolls retake Echo Islands & The Gnomes retake upper Gnomeregan, laying the groundwork for rebuilding their respective 'capitals'.

- However, we come to two big ties. The Burning of Orgrimmar and the Loss of King Magni/Return of Moira.

Thrall has a conversation with the Fire in the Novel, and this is part of the thinking that leads him to leave on his mission. There seem to be multiple fires. A small one, then a big huge one that the Cultists put together. Thrall left in the smaller one. Thrall was not present in the huge one, where Garrosh is in charge.

During that, King Magni does a ritual in the diamond heart of Ironforge, becoming Diamond himself - during which his Daughter shows up with her Dark Iron entourage, turning Ironforge upside down and nearly creating a Civil War. Rough times.

Therefore:

There has to be a definite 'Leap of Time' between the Orgrimmar Fire/Ironforge Incidents and the most recent patch on Tuesday. Many events that proceeded them, such as the fateful Duel between Garrosh/Cairne, the Coup of Thunder Bluff, the flooding of Theramore & Menethil, as well as the assault of Stormwind by Deathwing are all events that appear to be past tense; as though we, ourselves, would've missed them in the game.

Further following considerations:

- Orgimmar is reconstructed. Dark Iron and Saronite. Many Horde Holdings (Zoram'gar outpost, Warsong Lumber Grounds, Kargath Fortress, etc) have been upgraded to Fortresses with similar materials and architectural styles.

- Worgen are found in Darnassus, as well as many other places, such as attacking Rebuilt Brill. (I'm Horde, I have even encountered one to talk to at the crossing between west and east plaguelands. She sold me a hat.)

- Bilgewater Bay is fully constructed by Goblin Refugees (Meaning that the events of Kezan have happened in primary game story continuity) as well as all the major holdings of Azshara. Goblin slums also there in Orgrimmar.

- The Echo Islands are fully constructed into a sprawling Troll Stronghold. This took time - but they've been working on that since just after they invaded it.

- Khaz'modan, particularly around Gnomeregan, is full of Gnomish activity - fully constructed into a Gnomish Stronghold. This also took time, but they've been working on that since just after they invaded it.

- The Cataclysm has ravaged the land in countless areas.

- The Cultists are no longer outside of main cities, and are known for what they are and have caused.

- Thunder Bluff is not under the control of the Grimtotem, and Cairne is no longer around. Baine is.

- Ironforge is in the hands of the new Council of Three Hammers.

THEREFORE, I would propose that this 'Time Leap' is about One to Two months story continuity despite Real Life Game Time of only about two days.

This would enable:

- Orgrimmar's rapid reconstruction, which can be explained in Christie Golden's Novel by the deals brokered between Thrall and Gazlowe for Orgrimmar's reconstruction before Thrall left, as well as the supplies returned from Garrosh's Northrend Offensive. Garrosh obviously picked the color of the drapes. In one to two months of Goblin hard work, that wouldn't be unthinkable - parts of Orgrimmar are still seen as under construction.

- Goblins have had time to arrive in the Horde/the events of Kezan have played out (The Continuity separate when a Player is going through the Goblin starting experience, leading up to our 'now'). Goblins in the Horde are shown to be working just about everywhere within that short period. Goblins are well known for their quick building techniques and quickness at spreading. One to Two months and that's not entirely unthinkable, especially if Goblins can build a town from just a box.

- Stormwind has had enough time to recover and get Deathwing out of the city somehow (that, I'm curious about). Likewise, it's been enough time for them to begin building many (mostly incomplete, remember, they have Dwarven/Gnomish builders - slower, but more 'stable') incomplete fortifications in locations such as Westfall, as well as Darnassus having time to rebuild many of their holdings in Darkshore and the base of Teldrassil. Plenty of time for that in One to Two months time.

- Worgen have had time to spread around the Alliance, as well as to stage their counter attacks against the Forsaken (such as in Brill and Sepulcher). This means that the continuity for the Fall of Gilneas (the Worgen Starting experience) has already taken place. One to Two months, and that whole time period would be accounted for. It would also account for the time/resources the Forsaken have needed to build up holdings like Brill, as well as devastate Hillsbrad/building up Tarren Mill.

- MAJOR lore events could've easily taken place over a one to two month period, where we wouldn't even have known it. Hell, Undercity could've been lost under ONE DAY OR TWO in game continuity when Varimathras & Putress pulled their coup.

IN conclusion: One to Two months is a long time in War. A lot can come of it. I don't believe it's been years or anything, but a month or two is conceivable.

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Well instead of a time leap (which I think is stupid), I've been roleplaying that all that stuff was going on anyways. LC was trying to warn Dusk Watch and other groups of the Forsaken's forces continuing to build up in Lordaeron, and that there was a possible offensive on the way, they blew up the old tavern, but noticed that there was a lot of construction materials nearby the city, we took note of the trouble going on in Ironforge, etc.

Now as far as construction goes...

Look at all the bases in Northrend and Outland, those all appear the moment we go into those zones (which is supposed to be shortly after the first forces enter), therefore the built those fortresses and stuff overnight apparently too. MAGIC!

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'Magic' is too easy. The tool of Mage/Lock types who can't build a good missile launching turret to do the job for 'em. There's a reason we call 'em 'Mages' and not 'Wizards' - most're missing the 'wise' part. Magic doesn't replace good ol' brainpower, even if its temporary 'brilliance' tries to prop it up. They don't call it 'Arcane Intellect' anymore. ^_-

It's easy to imagine, given what I've read/observed, a month or two storyline difference. Not as far fetched as thinking all of that was done in real game time while some of us were there literally helping fight the fires. Besides, waiting for Cata at this point does feel like it draws out itself. RL time feels like it's been stretched a good couple months just in November. lol. Like one of those tunnels that just seems to get longer and longer.

The Northrend stuff is, much like Outland, in a 'continuity-proof bubble' in-game, while the overall storyline simply continues elsewhere. That's where the player goes through, experiences it, and in moving on, is generally outside that bubble. A way to tailor perception of time. It's 'new' to the new 68 who heads to Northrend. To us, it's just the domain of the Burger King - come home to find someone's dropped a deuce in our pool and we've got a Leno Chinned Dragon on our plate that's the culprit.

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