Yatokth

RealID Update

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Kelven    10

Interesting theory:

http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/zeroday/2010/07/07/is-korean-law-driving-policy-at-blizzard/

I think part of the issue is that - even for people who don't use the forums - this whole thing runs counter to how World of Warcraft works. This is an escape. If you start letting real life intrude, you kill the escape; it becomes another appendage of dull reality.

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Chikt    2
I'm gonna work on boosting Sony's stock! >.>

Oh yeah. Because Sony is so much better.

TECHNICALLY you're boosting Square Enix's stock. WHICH IS BETTER EVEN IF THEY'VE MADE A GAME WITH 13 SEQUELS.

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Ackley    10

I am going to walk into Mordor personally.

I can't wait for that to be f2p, since those are my favorite movies as well as books.

Hobbit is the best of all though.

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Chikt    2
Well, yeah but... still.

BUT STILL NOTHING.

Personally, I find Final Fantasy akin to Mario. There's a time when you just need to... let a franchise go. Take it in different directions with different names, even if it is essentially the same game. At least with a new title it's only a spiritual successor. BUT I'M JADED.

I dunno. Final Fantasy confuses the hell out of me and I have no desire to play in their universe that I find silly. I'd much rather play Halo: Reach online for 6 months until TOR comes out.

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Dahnek    10

I think part of the issue is that - even for people who don't use the forums - this whole thing runs counter to how World of Warcraft works. This is an escape. If you start letting real life intrude, you kill the escape; it becomes another appendage of dull reality.

I can see truth in this theory. At least for myself and people I know.

Yes! We will be playing with The Galactic Republic.

Yes! I can continue killing you all there! <3

Or if the PvP is not open world I'll check out Warhammer 40k: DM

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Tydis    10

I remember all my friends leaving Star Wars Galaxies for WOW. The biggest argument was that SONY did not give a shit about their customers but Blizzard really cared. That game was so much fun and the PVP was awsome. I'd get on vent and my first words would be, "Let's go kick some rebel ass!!" After SONY did a FUBAR on SWG, I vowed never to get attached to a game again lol. There is NOTHING you can do. I learned that back then. I'll stay on WOW until it's dead (because I believe death is imminent), and hopefully TOR will already have been released.

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Dahnek    10

http://www.massively.com/2010/07/08/anti-aliased-whats-in-a-name/

A very good article tackling this whole mess.

A real name will make you really think, right?

Let be begin this little rant by saying that what Blizzard wants to accomplish with this move is admirable. The World of Warcraft forums, and other Blizzard forums, aren't known for being bastions of community kindness. People make secondary characters and accounts to troll the forums, using anonymity as an advantage in their forum warz. Blizzard wants to find a way to help curb the madness, and its choice is to assign your real name to each one of your posts. Remove the veil, and you remove some of the hatred, right?

Well, it's partially right. Sticking your real name on your thoughts will certainly make some people reconsider their actions. Will you really want to call someone a "sparkle fag" if your real name was attached? Probably not. To that degree, Blizzard is correct -- sticking your real name on a post will make you think a bit more before you push that enter key.

But sticking your real name on to your posts creates a whole slew of other problems which many people have been quick to point out. Problems which, in my belief, outweigh the benefits of cautious posting.

Security issues, privacy issues, child privacy issues, gender issues, name change issues, oh my!

I think the sub-head is already an indication of how messy putting your real name on a post gets. While many of these issues have been tackled all over the internet, I'm going to give them a small amount of air time just to get my point across:

* Your real name is now attached to your posts, which also means your Armory information may be revealed. All of your game information will be on display for anyone who wants to stick your name into Google. Does your boss really need to know that you raid for four hours on Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday nights? Do you want your leisure time to become a matter of public record?

"I know I'd rather have an internet crazy yelling crap at me over some forums rather than coming to my house and leaving "presents" on my doormat."

* With just your name, a scary amount of information can be dug up on you. The game's first casualty has already been made public -- Community Manager Bashlok. Within minutes, posters found his wife's name, his children, where his children go to school, his house, his projected income, his Facebook, etc. The official response to this has been that posting any of this information will result in a ban. Yes, that's right, a whole ban. The fact that people can easily track you down isn't a huge worry because posting said information will result in a ban from an internet forum. We're all safe now guys! (Not to mention it's not ok for you to post real life information about other people, but it's completely ok for Blizzard to post your real life name.)

* Some of the players of World of Warcraft are minors. Sure, parents can make sure their children can't post on the forums by clicking an opt-out button in the child's profile. But what about the parents who don't know about that, or don't understand it, or don't want to be bothered? Is it ok to put the full name of a minor onto a forum at any time, especially when it is one of the first things we teach to children regarding internet security?

* It's sadly a clear-cut fact that women have a tendency to be harassed in some online spaces. Some women have been using the anonymity to enjoy the game without having someone scream "pics nao" or "boobs plz" in their /tell window every five minutes. Real ID kind of cuts through that, exposing women to the unpleasantness they were trying to avoid.

* It's also a well-known fact that I'm transgendered. The name attached to my account currently is Colin Brennan, not Seraphina Brennan. Other transgendered individuals may be running into the same problem, and so will women who were recently married/divorced or anyone who has changed his or her name since the creation of their account. While we can change our names by jumping through Blizzard's hoops, it's another pain-in-the-ass problem of this system.

* And need I mention certain guilds/groups, such as the various gay guilds of World of Warcraft, who would suddenly be outed should they post on the forums. You could say, "Well, then they shouldn't post," but what about officers who would like to advertise their guild, but haven't come out in real life? And this, once again, goes beyond gay guilds to pretty much any specialized guild. You may participate in their activities online, but may not wish to have that stuff involved in your everyday life.

* And your real name may reveal your ethnicity. Trolls will still troll no matter the name you assign to them, and knowing your real name may only add to their verbal arsenal, thanks to ethnic slurs.

So we take all of these negatives, simply to help curb internet trolling. Pardon me, but isn't there a chance that the trolling could become worse by spilling over into the real world? I know I'd rather have an internet crazy yelling crap at me over some forums rather than coming to my house and leaving "presents" on my doormat. While many people would never take it to that level, there are some who would, and those are the people I think we'd all like to avoid.

This will help us bond as a community!

But wait, there's more! Blizzard's PR statement finishes out by pointing out that it wants to create a community that can forge long-lasting, meaningful relationships. By using our real names, we'll be able to interact with one another on a brand-new, closer level.

This is the set of statements that has been lost in the shuffle, and a set of statements that I want to call foul on. We already form meaningful, long-lasting relationships in our games when we make the effort to do so. We don't need one another's real names to do that -- we've already set up the friendship based on who the person is, not on their real name.

Two weekends ago, I attended Anthrocon 2010 in Pittsburgh. Anthrocon, like most conventions, is filled with geeks who just love playing games. (I got spy checked by the Blu team from Team Fortress 2 upon entering the convention hotel.) And, like most other communities/conventions, many of the attendees have close bonds with one another. As I followed my friends around, it was like watching a giant family reunion. Hugs and handshakes were exchanged regularly, and introductions flew fast and furiously.

But, in all of this mayhem, "real names" weren't being thrown around. Attendees wore badges with drawings of their "furry" personas, and every single person I met gave me his or her taken name, rather than his or her real one. The exact same thing happens pretty regularly to me at gaming conventions as well, where players would much rather use their character names and servers as identification, not their real name.

Why? Well, it's pretty simple -- we want to be connected with the things we do in our respective communities. Many furries are excellent artists, writers, and animators, and introduce themselves by their taken names so you quickly identify them with their work. Gamers work the same way, as we want to be identified with our in-game achievements. We don't throw our real names onto our characters, so we throw our character names onto ourselves.

"And, beyond that, fostering a good community isn't as simple as clicking on a light and making everyone go by their real names."

Beyond that, our taken names are usually more unique than our real names. This has the added bonus of allowing us to quickly identify one another with zero confusion. Instead of saying "Hey, there's Bill!" and having your friends say "Bill who?", you can say "Hey, there's Lightshadow!" and everyone's minds instantly focus on Lightshadow. They remember the epic time he saved your raid by off-tanking. Heck, I have industry contacts I call by their usernames, simply because those names stick out in my mind quicker than their real names.

And -- I don't think I need to say this -- but there's just something cool about running by your username. You took it because you liked it, and on some level it represents who you are better than your real name represents you. I know I'd rather not lose that, but I might just be weird.

There's an easy solution to all of this

They always say not to criticize unless you have an answer, and I have an answer -- master account names, a la Xbox Live Gamertags and Cryptic Studios' @masteraccount. One forum account name, not multiple forum account names -- one for every character on your account.

This simple fix could even be designating one of your characters to post as, and that's it. It all comes back to posting under one name, so that name can be tracked to everything you do in the game. Real ID is all about intimidation through reputation, so why not set one name down? Sure, people will still troll, but then they'll be removed and ignored by the community as the trolls they are.

But as long as players and trolls can make multiple names to post as on your forums, chaos will continue. Reputations can't be assigned, as all players can be whoever they want to be. But once you lock it down to one single name, people won't be so cavalier.

And, beyond that, fostering a good community isn't as simple as clicking on a light and making everyone go by his or her real name. Fostering a good community takes large amounts of work, community leaders, and encouraging a safe environment for everyone to discuss their opinions. All of these things will help curb trolling and vicious attacks, but there is no magic bullet that automatically destroys those things. I'd rather see the company work on those pieces of its community over something like Real ID.

So what's in a name? Nothing, until there are qualities you can assign to it. Real name, fake name, it doesn't matter until both history and reputation can be applied.

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Amoola    10

I have to whole heartedly agree with that article.

The solution that was brought is something that had crossed my mind as well.

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Skaadvik    10

he/she/it makes some pretty good points. however, wording like "it's a well-known fact that I am transgendered blah blah blah" tends to turn me off from anything. not just in terms of transgender mutilations, but anything that might set you apart in what could be a negative way. It doesn't make for very good writing.

"Here are some really logical and well presented points to support my argument, which stands on its own perfectly well.

Also I am gay and black. This increases my credibility because you should innately pity me for my plight and thusly be swayed to my way of thinking."

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Amoola    10

"John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt,

His name is my name, too."

Agnarr I think you are on to something here...... ;)

(nope not attacking just playing along for any who don't know the song.)

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Chikt    2

The thing is, this isn't a vocal minority anymore. Can Blizzard REALLY take the risk in implementing this when they have no idea the sort of number of people that will quit the game over it? Just going by the forums, while it isn't a good indicator of how many people intend to leave - the sheer outcry from all corners of the web HAS to be taken with some weight. For all they know they could implement this and have a million people up and leave the game. And while that's only a tenth of their earnings, think of earning 10% less than you do today and how you'd manage.

They're playing with fire when the service they've announced has more people dreading it than supporting it. That's not a risk worth taking.

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Ryoku    10

Well, I'd just like everyone to know that I will be happily contributing to Blizzard and Activision's pockets with my absolute purchases of Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3.

I'm not going to not support Blizzard by refusing to play two games that I have been anticipating for a chunk of my childhood because of the possible* threat that Activision might compromise my real name.

My real name is compromised in just about everything else I do, what with my being an active member in society and all. Having it compromised in the internet as well doesn't seem like such a big deal.

Maybe I'm just a risk taker? Idk. We'll see how this pans out.

*bolded for some motherfucking emphasis

EDIT: Oh, and as far as that person's article regarding furrys and gamers preferring to use their psuedonyms over their real given names when they meet in person.

Well, here we go back to that whole "accountability" thing again.

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Dahnek    10
he/she/it makes some pretty good points. however, wording like "it's a well-known fact that I am transgendered blah blah blah" tends to turn me off from anything. not just in terms of transgender mutilations, but anything that might set you apart in what could be a negative way. It doesn't make for very good writing.

"Here are some really logical and well presented points to support my argument, which stands on its own perfectly well.

Also I am gay and black. This increases my credibility because you should innately pity me for my plight and thusly be swayed to my way of thinking."

I'm not entirely sure you can compare transgenders with homosexuals or blcks, nor was there a sense of "waaah pity me". I think the author (who is a respected voice on Massively.Com) was pointing out another part of the populace affected and inconvienanced(sp) by this.

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Yatokth    10
I can see truth in this theory. At least for myself and people I know.

Yes! I can continue killing you all there! <3

Or if the PvP is not open world I'll check out Warhammer 40k: DM

Essentially my thoughts. TOR, and if TOR fails, Warhammer 40k.

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opalexian    10
As yat said yesterday, I don't care if a company churns out stuff that makes me orgasm upon touching it. When they participate in shady business deals and lie to their customer base, they aren't getting any of my money. It's the same type of shit that stops me from buying any apple products (I don't even have quicktime on my computer.)

I said I hope this is true, because I'd rather point the blame at Activision, and not at Blizzard, who have always done AWESOME AWESOME things.

In the end the only way we can stop them from doing shit like this is to not pay for it. If enough of us stop, their stocks will plumet as their revenue does and they'll rethink their position.

Your information is sold and resold and resold and resold...it just needs to get out to one information outsourcer then BAM, you're being sold and blah blah blah. Trick I learned a while ago-when I sign up to different services and such, I usually alter my name in some way; then when I start getting shit addressed to that name (or spelling) I know who to tear a new one to.

Im concerned about the implementation of this and the (possible) insider comment about Blizz being told to go sit in the corner and play with the toys they were given because Daddy knows best. If Activision knew best, they might have figured out that trolling on the internet won't be stopped by ANYTHING. A nerd-rager with anger issues is trolled by a troll not smart enough to be posting under a different name, goes and kills him. Acti-blizz gets horrid publicity, loses even more subscribers, and gets to sit under a hefty lawsuit from the dead troll's parents.

To add to that, Rolph and I were talking about this at length earlier and he pointed out that Canada has more stringent privacy laws than the US-Canadian FB accounts that are deleted HAVE to have everything removed from the server by Canadian law, for instance. How's this gonna go over with various governments' privacy laws? Germany's are apparently more stringent than Canada's...What happens when they start to lose the business of whole COUNTRIES?

Mark my words-it's only a matter of time before Activision gets punched in the nuts by reality. Im just gonna sit back, keep playing, not post to the forums (and also watch the forum post counts decline drastically,) and watch to see how the trainwreck goes. They are severely underestimating how smart people are and will sit back smugly thinking 'they'll come crawling back'...until people don't because they found something less intrusive to do. Then all the lost subs will start driving home just how dumb their freakish new business model is and will be.

PS-Maybe I read something wrong, but this isn't going to be implemented until Cata on the WoW forums; it's only going live on the live SC2 forums for now. Kneejerk reactions are bad-tell them how full of shit they are for thinking this is a good idea, but it's not happening tomorrow. Chill, guys.

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Viirchi    26

I dunno, I had a 3 month subscription but as I'm not at the moment willing to do anything drastic for right now it's been moved to one month so I can wait a little longer, see what happens and not have to shell out another two months if I don't like the way the shit smells.

Real ID came out not a few weeks ago, I like the feature, as I no longer have to remember multiple alts or explain who I am when I whisper a friend when I am on one of multiple alts. I do not like the move to post on forums, but I never used them much anyway.

What has gotten me gradually more irritated is the way how this has been handled and the complete lack of logic related to their reasoning, which I suppose would suggest complete idiocy or an ulterior motive(which has been discussed already)

I like to talk too much, so scroll to bottom for TL/DR

Uhh, this will be a little long winded but....

- If this move is caused by a desire to gain more meaningful feedback and nicer forums there are easier ways, maybe creating a link specifically to leave feedback, it's already clear you can do this with a customer satisfaction survey whenever you talk to a GM, anyway some more logical methods might also be to appoint volunteers with limited control to patrol the forums more often, because you know there would be little trouble finding volunteers. Like I said, my problem is with all the potential solutions to the reasoning they gave they managed to choose one of the dumbest.

My other issues to this point have been the customer service, that if you read the blue posters yes, you can tell the replies they are given have been a conditioned response, basically they are being told to give the provided answers or it's their job.

My problem isn't with the Real ID forums in itself, it's with how the public outcry is being handled, the complete inability of Activision/Blizzard to listen to what it's customers actually want or even the opinions of their lowest employees.

It's been my experience that once a company stops paying attention or caring about the people the game starts to die. The players feel ignored and leave, causing more to leave because their friends are gone, theres no one to play with, the updates expected don't seem to ever come.

http://www.realmserver.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Realm_Online

Actually, this game above came out before Ultima Online, I remember because people kept leaving it for the UO beta. I played it for 5 years, the graphics were cartoonish, the lvling was basic and mostly centered on killing monsters and all I did was stand in one screen and role play. Really for me it was a glorified chat room.>.>

For something so basic, having come out when a lot more people still had dial-up it had some loyal subscribers. It didn't really start to fall apart until a game update was promised and never came, promised it was coming, just never came. Lead developer was dragged off to work on some other game and things just stagnated, players felt increasingly ignored. People who stuck around even when UO came out left, the game got sold off a couple times, stuff happened.

IMO Whether Activision or Blizzard or whoever we're blaming knows it the end result will be killing the game and if they're lucky they won't end up taking the entire company with it. People are not going to want to stick around so their opinions can be ignored. I don't want to leave, but I also do not want to stay in a game run by a company whose business practices seem to be nothing short of offensive.

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Yatokth    10
Home address and name here

The likelihood of this information being used against you is low. Incredibly low, especially here. But make no mistake, even though this is not my main argument or reason for leaving, if it's on the WoW forums, someone, whether it's you, Peggy Sue, or Martin Potalot (NO THOSE AREN'T REAL NAMES, I MADE ZEM UP) could get harassed, hurt, or in an extreme and rare case, killed. We once had a sexual predator sign up on these forums, and while I'm sure you're not particularly in danger from these types (Unless you're like, unspeakably hot to pedophiles. Maybe you look like you're 12. Dunno.) over here in backwater TNG we've had one of these types here.

In this backwater corner of the internet.

WoW forums involve 11.5 million people?*

I'm pretty certain you know how vicious people can be.

That's unacceptable risk to me, and it's also completely stupid to open those avenues just so you have less forum trolls.

Oh hang on.

It doesn't stop trolling.

It's a money grab.

No.

EDIT: * I thought it important to add I realize a good chunk of WoW users don't touch the forums, but the size is still drastically larger, judging just by the number of people posting in the protest thread against RealID changes.

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opalexian    10
The likelihood of this information being used against you is low. Incredibly low, especially here. But make no mistake, even though this is not my main argument or reason for leaving, if it's on the WoW forums, someone, whether it's you, Peggy Sue, or Martin Potalot (NO THOSE AREN'T REAL NAMES, I MADE ZEM UP) could get harassed, hurt, or in an extreme and rare case, killed. We once had a sexual predator sign up on these forums, and while I'm sure you're not particularly in danger from these types (Unless you're like, unspeakably hot to pedophiles. Maybe you look like you're 12. Dunno.) over here in backwater TNG we've had one of these types here.

In this backwater corner of the internet.

WoW forums involve 11.5 million people?*

I'm pretty certain you know how vicious people can be.

That's unacceptable risk to me, and it's also completely stupid to open those avenues just so you have less forum trolls.

Oh hang on.

It doesn't stop trolling.

It's a money grab.

No.

EDIT: * I thought it important to add I realize a good chunk of WoW users don't touch the forums, but the size is still drastically larger, judging just by the number of people posting in the protest thread against RealID changes.

IT WON'T STOP TROLLING.

NOTHING STOPS TROLLING.

THE INTERNET IS FOR PORNTROLLING.

And also a bastion for

. Yeah, nothing bad will happen IRL over this at all. Nope, not at all.

*goes to get taser and thick rubber gloves, waits patiently for Yat* ; 3

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Yatokth    10
IT WON'T STOP TROLLING.

NOTHING STOPS TROLLING.

THE INTERNET IS FOR PORNTROLLING.

And also a bastion for

. Yeah, nothing bad will happen IRL over this at all. Nope, not at all.

*goes to get taser and thick rubber gloves, waits patiently for Yat* ; 3

Pretty sure if I IRL stalk someone to kill them over World of Warcraft, it'll be TenjRETHIUS.

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Tylorvias    10

My point was simply that I've thought it over and realize I don't give a care if people have my information or not, and that this personally won't effect my playing WoW or not.

Though I'm still probably dropping for TOR.

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Sett    10

Thoughts changed. I don't 100% agree with it but I don't care if it goes through now.

I waited too long for D3 to come to be spooked about the forums. I hadn't even known about the forums of all my years playing Diablo and Diablo 2 for b.net, actually. So probably not going to give a shit with the third. I still can separate game=life!

As for WoW...

Mmm. Still not frightening that everyone will know I'm a girl. Boohoo they're going to look me up.

This is subject to change, of course. Like, if they sink it into my game play. That's crossing the line for me for game=life! sort of thing.

I will miss you guys who are leaving. That's the more heartbreaking thing than seeing an idolized company making foolish choices. ;_;

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Swerto    10

Activision is full of shit, this is nothing more than a money grab for greater ad revenue. They want to create a new facebook, one that you PAY for.

Also, I pose the question. How long do you think this will just be the forums before it moves on. Perhaps having your RealID inspectable on your character you play in WoW, or simply looking at your account on starcraft II/Diablo 3. How long before you think they just merge all activision games into battle.net? How long do you think this'll just stay just some stuipd forum grab.

Activision is pushing Blizzard over a line, an ethical line that I cannot support monetarily. I love this game, I love the things blizzard has done. I'm severely pissed off that morals are keeping me from playing the awesome cataclysm coming up, that Diablo 3 will never be touched by my hands. But in the same thread I will not buy another game that gives any money to Actavision period, which also pisses me off because I fucking love Guitar Hero.

First the infinity Ward debacle, and now this.

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