Shindu Sin'Dorei

[Ryoku]

Falling Children of the Blood

That may not be the literal case here, but it certaintly feels like Blood Elves have seen quite the bashing by people who play other races on TNG.

But, mainly I'm posting this here to offer a little advice to the Blood Elves who roll here.

You see, I don't hate Blood Elves literally. The race in itself is kinda neat.

But.. Just the way some people roleplay it. The way quite a few Blood Elves roleplay it... Irks me.

To be honest, there are several Blood Elves that I don't mind so much. Hell, there are Blood Elves that I really like to roleplay with. But it's because they know what they're doing.

Some ways to be liked as a Sin'Dorei

1. Learn your lore: You have no idea how tired I am of reading a Sin'Dorei's bio/Roleplaying with them only to realize that there are several lore errors, showing the player has no obvious clue about what they're doing. I suggest before you roll a Blood Elf, you first read some fucking Wowwiki on them to get an idea for how they play. Hint: When you use /charge and you hear your character yell "FOR ANASTARIAN". Yeah, that guy is your dead king... Also to note, this issue isn't limited just to Sin'Dorei players. Everybody should learn their lore.

2. Be an arrogant, xenophobic asshole: Not all Blood Elves are accepting of their new Horde allies. In fact, most of them have deeply run hatreds of some of their allies. Furthermore, Blood Elves usually believe that they are higher than the other races of Azeroth. I'm tired of these happy-go-lucky Blood Elves that freely and friendly talk to members of other races like equals. ESPECIALLY TROLLS: Heres a note for you: Most Blood Elves HATE TROLLS. It doesn't matter if they're Darkspear Trolls, most Blood Elves have never met a Darkspear Troll before they Allied with the Horde. When they see a tall thing with tusks, a mohawk, a hunched back, and speaking with a Jamaican accent they don't think "Hmm.. He's a bit skinnier and a different color than the Amani." NO! They see a Troll, and they're reminded of how the Trolls burnt their forest several years ago. In some cases its more okay for your Blood Elf to be more friendly. If your Blood Elf lived in Dalaran, or was a part of a merchant family, it'd be more akin to being friendly with other races. Also, if the Character has been around a majority of the other races while playing the game, they may learn to be more accepting. But a Sin'Dorei straight out of Silvermoon? No. Also take note, that a Blood Elves alliance to the Horde is akin to that of the Trolls and Forsaken. They're pretty much just using the Horde to get back on their feet, and once they rebuild and return to being powerful, they'll most likely drop-kick the Horde completely, and probably go back to their reclusive existance in their forest (though, there may be a possibility of an Alliance remaining between the Sin'Dorei and the Forsaken, seeing as Sylvanas has huge ties, and sympathy to them.)

3. Don't Cyber in public places: Believe it or not, people don't really like sitting in the inn and having to listen to you getting it on with another player in the other room. Also, expect people to yell at you about keeping the noise down when you do. If you decide to get it on someplace that's not in a bed in an inn (such as on the counter/table downstairs) expect people to yell at you in character and tell you to get a room. and if your cyber session includes rape, expect people to come bust it up. Actually, this whole discussion is targeted to everybody who cybers. Blood Elf or not. I don't really want to see that kind of smut in my text bar when I'm trying to RP, so if you're planning on it, please find a nice quiet place thats out of the way, or take it to party chat.

4. Don't godmode your character bio. Believe it or not, most people in the world are not amazingly beautiful. Actually, the percentage of amazingly beautiful people in the world is actually very, very small. So, to have your character be amazingly beautiful is simply rediculous. Photo-Avatars of models that are tweaked to look like Blood Elves also disgust me. Nobody looks like that without extremely good lighting, makeup, and airbrushing/other kinds of editing. To further make this point, I'm actually using a picture of myself as Ryoku's photo-avatar. Not because I think I'm amazingly beautiful, but because like Ryoku, I'm not ugly, maybe even a little bit attractive, but I'm no God. Moving on, I get tired of the huge emphasis on description in Character Bios of Night Elves. I don't care about your "Flowing Blonde Hair" or your "Soft, Sun-Touched skin" or your Beautiful Face. Why? Because it's done so much. I guess all I'm trying to say is I wish there were more Blood Elves who played off as being more... Average looking. Again, average looking doesn't mean you're ugly or plain, just a bit more realistic. A good example I found of an average looking Blood Elf is Bir. Yay Bir.

5. Don't godmode... In general: Alright, this is another one for everybody. NOBODY likes a godmoder, and most everybody doesn't really want to roleplay with a godmoder. I plan on making a post to go more in-depth on godmoding in the near future, so I won't elaborate much more from here.

6. Alts: You play one Blood Elf? That's cool. Two Blood Elves? Alright. You have 6 characters on the server and none of them are Troll, Tauren, Forsaken, or Orcs? Okay, now you're getting rediculous. This isn't really so much of an issue, but it just pains me when people want to be beautiful so much that they won't try anything new. What irritates me further is when said person goes and QQs about how Blood Elves can't be Druids/Warriors/Shaman, or complains how they want to play said class, but they can't be Blood Elves. Guess what? There are 4 other races there that can that are just waiting for you to play them (Exceptions go to people who had planned their Blood Elf before TBC as a Warrior only to find that they can't be one). Hey, maybe if you try out a new race, you might find you like it. =p

On the population issue
Yes, the huge population of Blood Elf roleplayers is seen as a problem, but you really can't fix this. A lot of people want to play your race. Please don't get all pissy when someone comments OOC: "Jesus, there sure are a lot of Blood Elves at this event" Just get used to it. People are tired of playing with a ton of Blood Elves. Everyone likes to see variety, that's another reason I made my Horde an Orc. Don't make this keep you from playing a Blood Elf, though. They're a really fun race to play if you do it right! Just remember that there is a lot of you, and people are going to complain, but in most cases this aspect isn't going to stop them from roleplaying with you.

And there you have it. My rant is done. Permanently. I will not comment on Blood Elves negatively in this forum any more (as for individuals... That's another story entirely). I feel that it has indeed gotten old, and commenting negatively on it isn't going to make things any better.

If you want to play a Blood Elf, you'll probably find you, and the rest of the players who play your race will be more liked if you follow the first 5 of the bullets listed above (the 6th having no real effect on how most people percieve the specific character).

Finally, just remember: Roleplay a Sin'Dorei for the race.. Not the face.

P.S. I really hope I didn't come off as being hostile in this post. I'm really not trying to be hostile, I just want people to know what's up, and give some roleplaying tips to people who may not know. However, by posting this, I have an irking feeling that I have just dug my own grave here.

[Rand_Shea]

*sigh*

I didn't like the thread dictating how to play night elves, and neither did you, dude... It's a bit disappointing that you're making one dictating people how to play their BE's.... or how many they can have.

Let's please just stop posting these kinds of things. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to get people ticked off and spark drama.

[Kiaransalius]

As for the "elves are all beautiful" matter... I have seen plenty with scars and such marring their faces in the descriptions. However, being elves, I always consider them to be more than average for looks... its part of the elven mythology. Elves are beautiful creatures.

I have to agree with Rand... just play what you want to play and stop telling others what to do.

[Ryoku]

*sigh*

I have never seen a Sin'Dorei with a scar that makes them ugly. To me, it just seems like people are trying to play the Squall Leonhart card.

Other than that, I really don't see this thread going anywhere. Fuck it. Delete it.

[Kiaransalius]

I agree cybering should be private if it is done, godmoding does suck, and going against lore is annoying... but none of that has anything to do with blood elves. Thats a server wide matter.

[Ryoku]

I agree cybering should be private if it is done, godmoding does suck, and going against lore is annoying... but none of that has anything to do with blood elves. Thats a server wide matter.

I was actually planning on making a post directed to everybody on those issues.

But these things appear to be more akin to people who roleplay Blood Elves.

That's why it's there.

[Bir]

Don't like my blood elf? Don't RP with him.

[Ryoku]

Don't like my blood elf? Don't RP with him.

But I like your Blood Elf! :D

[Chikt]

I think what all the Blood-Elf hate comes down to is that there are so many of them. And because there are so many of them, lots of them feel unoriginal.

[Rand_Shea]

I apologize for part of my comment on how it was worded... I didn't mean to seem like I was attacking you. I know you're just trying to help, like Mae was with that night elf topic.

But, it's tiring. It's getting to a point where it's starting to piss me off, not because people hate my characters for the races I choose to play or how they act, but because they're so fucking petty about it and have to justify and adopt an elitist prick attitude, implying I'm somehow inferior because I don't play the way THEY want to. I don't play THEIR faction. I don't play THEIR favored race. I don't play the way THEY think I should.

You're not one of them, just so you know... though I think you know that.

But.. whatever. At least I can feel slightly empowered that I'm not the only one sick of all the petty crap going on here lately.

[Ryoku]

I think what all the Blood-Elf hate comes down to is that there are so many of them. And because there are so many of them, lots of them feel unoriginal.

I actually don't care about how many of them there are anymore. It gets annoying at events and such, but ohwell.. Let them play how they want to play.

What irks me most is how I run into so many Blood Elves that don't even pay heed to the lore. It's like they just thought "That looks pretty!" and didn't even bother read up on the general architype.

Lore > All. If you can't even bother look it up, then prepare to be criticized.

Also, as I said: I'm done bashing Blood Elves in general. It really is getting old. It's not constructive. It should just stop.

[Solenev]

Haha. I have been entertained by public cyber lately. It amuses me.

Most of it has been undeads in the Undercity. Keraph and Nadea! Your guild is getting naughty.

[Sifar]

Sifar skips her Dwarven, rogue, curvy self merrily along...

...although, no one's ever asked to cyber with the dwarf. Perhaps I should be offended?




Nah.

Nate, Rand, your points are fair ones. Apply them to everyone and I think we have a deal.

[Okhu]

Sifar skips her Dwarven, rogue, curvy self merrily along...

...although, no one's ever asked to cyber with the dwarf. Perhaps I should be offended?



I'm just on the wrong side baby.

/shimmy.
/wiggly eyebrows

[Okhu]

Why even bother making this thread?... just because there was some random argument about blood elves in another thread... you had to make another one telling them how to RP?... ....wait...wait what?..

[Rand_Shea]

I think what all the Blood-Elf hate comes down to is that there are so many of them. And because there are so many of them, lots of them feel unoriginal.

Unoriginal and annoying copout excuse.

[Okhu]

I concur with Rand.

[Sulajin]

Unoriginal and annoying copout excuse.

Even if it's not the most origional excuse it is a valid, and rather telling one.

[Okhu]

I don't recall everyone giving forsaken all this hate when THEY were the over-populated one Horde side prior to BC, since they were practically the Horde as a whole.

[Sulajin]

Probably because they were there from the start. And you're right, they were the overpopulated ones.

Being able to put forward rational arguments is great, but not really applicable to knee-jerk emotional reactions.

[Rand_Shea]

Even if it's not the most origional excuse it is a valid, and rather telling one.

All it tells me is that people can't handle that others don't want to play the game the same way they do.

And that in itself is very telling of the maturity level amongst these so called 'mature' roleplayers, and why so many non-RPers despise those that do RP.

[Naheal]

Ryo, I like you, but you're going to get flamed for this post.

1: These "guidelines" that you put in place here apply not just to Sin'dorei, but all races in general. Yes. Including Kaldorei.

2: You bash a race, expect people who play the race to get defensive. Those of you who are reading this know who you are.

3: You dislike a race and decide to judge the player behind the character, then you're just a bad roleplayer. I don't care who you are.

4: You have no idea how often I catch flak for having multiple characters that are Sin'dorei. Why do I have that many? Could it possibly be because I like the race!? What, you think we would ever say anything to someone who has gobs and gobs of orcs? How about Forsaken? Trolls? Tauren? How about Night Elves? Draenei? Humans? Gnomes? Dwarves? God, no. We love the race. That's why we play the race. Go figure.

5: I agree. Lore > All. If your race has like no lore, or lore that you don't know, you shouldn't be playing that race. So, it's better to roll multiple characters of a race that you know, amirite?

6: While I'm at it, I know how to play my character and race, thank you very much. I don't need you telling me how I should be playing both. The race and setting is the backdrop, but my character is just that. Mine. I breathed life into my characters. I know how they would act and react.You have no place in telling me how I should be acting with my characters. Under any circumstance.

[Ravennê]

Having read a couple of threads recently concerning the state of RP or racial lore I have a general comment or two.

I re-rolled here after a very long absence. Having played on PvE, PvP and another RP-PvP realm, I can say that TN has potential, but one has to take the bad with the good. IMO the very thing that makes for good RP (the people behind the character and their story line) can and does bring argument (and maybe some ensuing drama) but it is not life ending.

Within the WoW community RP is dynamic and thus it changes. How RP is performed, viewed and opinions changes over time. I don't think anyone thinks of it quite the same way they did when they first started playing, or relative to this server beginning.

Successful playing on an RP realm, one finds a point of balance where they can feel comfortable with it. Some are RP-lite, some heavy and some not at all.

Discussion will and should occur, but should be a two-way thing.

Thanks

[Sulajin]

All it tells me is that people can't handle that others don't want to play the game the same way they do.

And that in itself is very telling of the maturity level amongst these so called 'mature' roleplayers, and why so many non-RPers despise those that do RP.

Me kettle, you pot? So what I'm reading is that if I start to dislike a race because a vocal majority does plays it poorly that makes me childish? Who the hell mentioned 'maturity'?

[Evanthe]

I don't recall everyone giving forsaken all this hate when THEY were the over-populated one Horde side prior to BC, since they were practically the Horde as a whole.

Seriously! I remember pre-BC, and the horde were mostly forsaken.

Instead of hating on Blood Elves for being over populated, hate on Blizzard for making the other races less appealing.


Not that the concept behind orcs, trolls, or tauren was lacking; no, just the execution.

Examples:

Trolls: Trolls are the reason I re-rolled horde waaaay back in the day. They are awesome. My favorite race. Cunning, fierce. However (and I'm speaking about females, here) they only have a small handful of hairstyles, one of which has major clipping issues. How many do the blood elves, night elves, humand, dwarves, orcs (i.e. every other race in the game) have? And don't even get me started on the faces! Actually, do get me started. They only have something like 5 different faces, 3 of which are hideous, one I love, and one 'pretty' face that 9 out of 10 female trolls have. Blizzard really should have put in more options. I can only create so many trolls before they all start to look like Ikubi (my first troll, priest) or Zasu (my second troll, hunter) or (insert the other couple trolls I've had here whose names I forget). Ho, hum. It's a very similar looking character over, and over, and over again.

Orcs: Like trolls, there are only one or two 'pretty' faces that the majority of players use, and only one or two hairstyles. (Pigtails, anyone?) Although they have more variety than the trolls, when only a small percentage is appealing to players, your charcter design team missed the mark. You can make orc females buff, and tough, and rough and a smidge manly without making them ugly-- just look at the majority of the fan art out there. Also, the emotes? I know they turn off a lot of people. Orc females kick ass, seriously. It's sad there are so few of them, and I am inclined to blame Blizz.

Tauren: They can be only 4 classes and have next-to-no lore. That limits their appeal right off the bat for many. Also, they are huge. This is my personal problem with them- not in an RP sense, but in a game-mechanics sense. They take over my screen! Same reason I couldn't (or wouldn't) play a male Dranei. I know it's not an issue for everyone, but I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Additionally, most of the armor (especially cloth) just doesn't 'fit' on the more tribal members of the horde. There are a couple pieces here and there, things in ZF and ZA. But other than that? I have a troll mage wearing deathspeaker (I think?) robes from RFK- an instance in the barrens, no less. Do they fit on her? No! They look like a victorian dress. The vast majority of endgame armor is even worse. I'm sure some people take this into account when rolling charachters. Am I going to look stupid at 70? I consider it. I can't be the only one.

Finally, and I suppose this is my summary: If you think the horde was impervious to the 'pretty character' syndrome before the blood elves, you are mistaken. How many undead were created with the least amount of decay possible (highlighted in their RSP description and character design)? Tons. How many trolls were created with the pretty face and tusks-so-small-they-are-barely-there combo? You know, the most 'human' or 'elf' looking combination. The vast majority of trolls (and this was even more prevalent pre-BC).

Bottom line- if there has been an overpopulation of first, the forsaken (who have great racials, awesome lore, and lots of customization options) and then, the blood elves (who have great lore, fuck-tons of customization options, and cool touches like the female rogue crouch), maybe we should look at the other horde races and find out why they aren't as popular, instead of bashing the two races that are? Blizzard, in my opinion, could have done much better with the execution on the other three races.

P.S. Sifar, on my dwarf, I did get approached to cyber, although far, far less than on my elves or humans. She was a goody-goody- and politely declined. The race I have never been asked to cyber on? Gnome.

[Sulajin]

I hear ya, Eva. I just hope Lich king fixes some of that.

[Skafloc]

Nate, have you ever seen Skafloc's face in game? He is not one of the more "pretty" blood elves you will encounter thats for sure. Not all the elves are the prettiest they can be, either in character options or FlagRSP/Myroleplay descriptions. Having said that I have to concede that as a race they are elves...which immediately implies they would by human standards appear "stunning" as a general rule. The same can be said for the Kaldorei.

I role play Skafloc as more tolerant of the other races in part as he was/is in the business of trade and would have had contact with the other races over the years, also as a farstrider he would be more travelled and (according to the lore) generally less volatile than the more magically dependent classes. That issue was discussed in the Lore forums in regard to Blood Knights to some degree.

Evanthe hit the mark with her comments regarding the other races I think. I've noted the same things over the years pre BC.

[Izrail]

I also agree with Evanthe's post. But I don't mind the blood elf hate. As I've said before the seething rage people felt towards the idea of blood elves in the Horde, pre-BC, was one of the reasons I rolled one. For a character who has lived on the fringes of Sin'dorei society all his life I think his acceptance of other races is perfectly viable. From my own experience, anyone who occupies a minority status will leap at any excuse to go against mainstream opinion, such as by socializing with people that the majority turn their noses up at.

The thread in the Lore section about stereotypes made me realize that I honestly can't tell, and don't care enough to examine how stereotypical my characters are. It's a nonissue with me.

So that's my opinion on the subject.

[Fynne]

they only have a small handful of hairstyles, one of which has major clipping issues

For the record, I disagree wholeheartedly that this should, in any way, be a deterrent to rolling a character or roleplaying.

[Cessily]

I agree with Evanthe in every way.

Yes, I do think how my character will look when I reach 70, and for starters, let me just say how much Blizzard puzzles me when it comes to armor and weapon design in late game:

Zulaman is an instance that is full of trolls. Okay! All the armor there should look troll-ish? Most of it, of course, but think of this: I am Blood Knight healer, so when some healing plate drops, no Warrior will roll on it (if there is a God). Why did Blizzard make it look troll-ish? It is just plain stupid. Maybe the trolls had trophies from fallen enemies, and one of them was a cool shoulder that really fit Blood Knights and Paladins in general. "Dead Knight's Pauldrons", or whatever.

Tauren: The best 'Tauren' armors are the initial Shaman robes, and Tier 6 Druid armor. WoW... how many places do they have that reinforces their lore? MMm... No instances, not even Maraudon (Tauren have something to do with Centaurs, if I'm not wrong). Oh! What is best, they can be Druids. But they have that feel 'I was not supposed to be here'. First, Tauren are tied to the Sun in many ways. All Druids revere Moon, and everything is about Moon. Moonglade, Moonfire, Moonthis, Moonthat. Second, Moonglade is faaaaaar away from Thunderbluff. I mean... they just don't look like they should be there. It almost feels like Troll mages, but mages have no in-game lore for the most part anyway... (Did I mention that seal form, that has long ears?)

Racism: Did you ever try to RP a racist blood elf? It is just lame. Cessily was the most rabid, racist, almost-nazi kind of Sin'dorei I had ever seen, most because I had never seen a haughty and racist blood elf, and I thought 'there should be more of those around...' when I was lvl 12. But...

Can you attack members of your Faction? No. So attacking them with words makes you look silly most of times.

But there are duels, you say? Most of people won't accept duels they believe they won't win. Fact. I can't remember how many times I got beaten hard in duels against people 40, 30 levels higher than me. I mean, it is not like you can convince someone not to beat you if they really want to. There is no 'Do you wish to accept this duel?' in the real world.

Besides, roleplaying a racist character alone, in a world where most characters will scold you for insulting other races, makes your character look insane. And since I'm ranting (and for my surprise, I'm not ranting about hunters), let me tell you this: Do you ever realized how many characters know the complete Lore from WoW? You can't imagine how many times I had to make Cessily look stupid when she barked at people who said 'Everyone knows all races descend from trolls'. Sin'dorei told her that. I know blizzard writes her lore like this, but how can you admit being originated from a 'lower race'? Characters all around know just too much. Cessily looks like a kid sometimes, because I purposely make lore mistakes with her. Not everyone knows everything, and since she is not much of a scholar...

Anyway, last words:

You have your opinion, fine, but calling people ridicullous because they have more than 3 characters of the same race in the same account is just wrong. People pay this game to play as they want, and you coming here to insult those people, well... it won't help anyone, will it?

Also, Hunters suck, and Blizzard had her devs high when making the Class.

[Rand_Shea]

Me kettle, you pot? So what I'm reading is that if I start to dislike a race because a vocal majority does plays it poorly that makes me childish? Who the hell mentioned 'maturity'?

I don't recall saying I hated any of your characters because of the way you played them, so no. Nice try, though.

Thanks again for proving my point.

[Fynne]

I don't really feel like articulating this with the whole arguments-and-evidence thing (since, apparently, that's frowned upon: I mean, how dare we have reasons for why we're annoyed by things!?) so hopefully by the time I click post, this won't have grown into several paragraphs. There are a lot of blood elves. I don't like having to kill lots and lots and lots of blood elves; I'd really prefer to kill Horde that feels like Horde. I mean, when I was playing Warcraft III, the "Horde" consisted of Orcs, Trolls, and Tauren. These races are the three least played of the Horde. Awesome. Before, it was just Forsaken - and yeah, I hated them too. Maybe no-one else ever noticed, but as a rogue, it was very obvious that the Horde consisted of "ud rogues!" But now, it's Forsaken and Blood Elves, and the Horde doesn't feel like much of a Horde. Maybe the Horde doesn't understand that, because they've got a lot of NPCs to interact with that aren't entirely blood elves or undead, so the flavor isn't entirely focused for them. For me, though - the huge majority of what I see in the field is blood elves and forsaken, and it really isn't all that awesome. If I want to get annoyed at that, it's my prerogative. I don't see where the whole blaming-Blizzard thing comes in, really? It's more responsibility shirking. You rolled a blood elf, and apparently from what I've read so far, you're pretty well informed about the blood elf hate. So instead of going, "onoes, people are hating and THATS WRONG, HOW DARE THEY!?" and acting all surprised and indignant, you could maybe realize where they're coming from instead of attacking their position. They're allowed to have their point of view just as much as you have yours - you don't get to tell someone when they're allowed to hate something and when they're not. That's just as intolerant, except instead of being attached to an in-game premise, it's completely out of character. So, you might not like it, but here's something constructive that blood elf hate is doing - it's discouraging people to roll blood elves, and maybe it'll get the numbers down.


...and, apparently, not actually breaking the wall of text into paragraphs doesn't mean that I still didn't write a huge wall of text. God dammit.

[Emmons]

I try to avoid most heated conversations, but I'll toss in my 2c because there are some points I feel strongly about:

1. Nasty Racist Awesome Blood Elves: I love it when a blood elf looks at the other races in disgust, it's how they are, and its how the lore paints them. HOWEVER, and The Grim used to have a huge problem with this in the past, if you seek to join a guild or organization, and then shit all over them verbally, especially if your character is new to the Guild/Organization, don't be surprised if everyone hates you and you get das Boot.

2. Cybering in public. Every other time I walk into the Inn at Silvermoon, there are two elves sitting inside each other on one of the beds. About half the time it's silent, and I applaud you for keeping it in party chat. I'm cool with whatever you wanna do, but when I walk into the room and start my little spiel (I've never actually harassed anyone I can tell is cybering but...many of you know my character), and I get OOC whispers that you're in a locked room...well, first off, no you're not. There is very clearly no door in this Inn, as I can see your scantily or not-ily clad bodies through the thin veil. Supposing I go along with your claim anyways, guess what. Rogues can pick locks, if I can unlock a weapons chest in the bowels of a Fel-Orc outpost in Outland, I can sure as hell unlock a door at an Inn.

I had more, but I'm simultaneously studying East Asian History and I lost my train of thought.