Anyone see that truck that hit me? [Archive] - The Twisting Nether Gazette

Kaliera

03-07-2008, 12:54 PM

I foresee Arms Warriors crying for Ret nerfs as... fuck he chewed through me faster than any Arms warrior ever has -- and he's got a bubble and instaheal to boot.

Barely anyone complains about 1v1 issues anymore, and arms warriors will always have a PvP tool that Ret paladins will not, that being Mortal Strike.

That said, there's a reason why you rarely see double warrior + healer teams in 3s anymore, as once you have one MS debuff up, the other slot is better filled by a well-geared retadin. As a healer though, no retribution paladin alone will ever scare me. Hell, my elemental shaman can typically outheal a retadin long enough for help to arrive. Healing is pretty crazy these days. :/

Swerto

03-07-2008, 01:06 PM

I had a fight with my dad and his friend for HOURS about how ret was VERY powerful and they really had never fought anyone who knew how to use it. They play on a PVE server and think they know something about pvp -sharp whistle-

They argued that tier 6 was pvp gear... I laughed in their face.

Xaraphyne

03-07-2008, 03:00 PM

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting+Nether&n=Heidenreich

Lolret indeed.

Doesn't have his cloak enchanted. Scrub.

<puts down a frost trap and runs>

Sanrin

03-07-2008, 03:09 PM

Dorys Embrace?! You tell him he can do better...rite nao.

Kaldore

03-07-2008, 03:16 PM

Ok.... I'll tell him to get cracking on improving his third gear set.

KEK

Maegannon

03-07-2008, 09:10 PM

*rolls* He's been playing around with grimmies all weekend ;p

He's working on that San, getting stuff crafted from the gbank takes time when SOME PEOPLE only let us run BT ;o

*us meaning them and not me *cries*

Heidenreich

03-07-2008, 09:18 PM

HEIDENREICH SMASH!!!!

Sanrin

03-07-2008, 10:01 PM

FIVE POSTS?! HE IS A MONSTER!

We need a moderator to stop him from spamming this forum RITE NAO!

Heidenreich

03-07-2008, 10:07 PM

Dorys Embrace?! You tell him he can do better...rite nao.

I would have a much better cloak if I could get a hold of a Leather Worker with 4 Primal Nethers to spare, 40 Heroic Badages or any combination of the two ro equal 4 Primal Nethers. Then I'll be rocking out the Cloak of Darkness (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33122)!

Sanrin

03-07-2008, 10:28 PM

Thats the cloak i gots, its definitely the shizzle...though dorys does have resil.

Bir

03-07-2008, 10:41 PM

HEIDENREICH SMASH!!!!

I GOT U LAZT NITE IN HALAA LOLZ.

I saw you rollin and I be hate'n. My paladin's lolret crap is nowhere near that hot.. /salute to you good sir.

Rand_Shea

03-08-2008, 01:44 PM

I want to see an epic battle of Heidenreich versus Elek. :D

Elek Quentin

03-30-2008, 12:47 PM

I want to see an epic battle of Heidenreich versus Elek. :D

If for no other reason than this...

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c391/Zancha/WoWScrnShot_022808_123509.jpg

Heidenreich

03-30-2008, 01:38 PM

Kaliera

03-30-2008, 01:45 PM

Take off your Resil gear and face me in REAL Ret gear. We can tango all night. No offense to the people that wear it, but Glad gear is garbage, if you want real PvP take the crap off. Check my armory anytime, you will never catch me in any of that garbage; I have it but I don't wear it.

Erm...no offense, but you know how silly that sounds, right?

"If you want to PvP with me, take off that PvP gear and slap on some PvE gear!"

...Not to mention you're in tier 6 content, as opposed to most people's 4-5. PvP gear is itemized for PvP fights, and as such, tends to be worn for PvP combat.

Thoraggar

03-30-2008, 01:46 PM

Dunno if this is where you got the name from, but, enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIGj2J5BIeI

Shadowspeak

03-30-2008, 01:48 PM

Maes husband has stil yet to catch for that day in Hillsbrad... oh man, that was fun...

~shakefist~ bring it, spacesmurf!

Tillna

03-30-2008, 01:51 PM

I'll keep my PVP gear.

I have killed people in t6 stuff

Morgenstern

03-30-2008, 05:09 PM

Dunno if this is where you got the name from, but, enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIGj2J5BIeI

I would read some Draenei disasterpieces, no doubt.

Grev

03-30-2008, 06:13 PM

Erm...no offense, but you know how silly that sounds, right?

"If you want to PvP with me, take off that PvP gear and slap on some PvE gear!"

...Not to mention you're in tier 6 content, as opposed to most people's 4-5. PvP gear is itemized for PvP fights, and as such, tends to be worn for PvP combat.
It's no secret that resilience was a horrible idea for PvP. Well, maybe not a horrible idea, but horribly executed.

Kaliera

03-30-2008, 10:54 PM

It's no secret that resilience was a horrible idea for PvP. Well, maybe not a horrible idea, but horribly executed.

Because being 1 shot by PoM pyro mages was incredibly fun and engaging PvP. Being killed in the duration of a cheap shot was pretty awesome too. Oh, and Destruction warlocks shadowbolt + shadowburn two-shotting targets was pretty sweet too. Yea, the pre-resilience days were pretty awesome, and made for heavy skill-based PvP matches.

It's no secret that resilience turned PvP from a total joke into a half-decent aspect of the game.

Fhenrir

03-31-2008, 12:28 AM

Take off your Resil gear and face me in REAL Ret gear. We can tango all night.

I can't help but point out the irony in the fact that if you fought eachother in PvE gear that someone would likely get bursted down in two seconds. So it would probably be impossible to tango all night. :D

Kaliera

03-31-2008, 12:44 AM

I can't help but point out the irony in the fact that if you fought eachother in PvE gear that someone would likely get bursted down in two seconds. So it would probably be impossible to tango all night. :D

But the skill involved would be massive!

Heidenreich

03-31-2008, 03:50 AM

Resil is the worst thing that could have ever been introduced to the game. The Arena gear in general I like to an extent, cause without it things like Ret Paladins would be pathetic if they weren't Raiders.

Pre 2.4 the "best" Ret gear was Warrior gear. After 2.4 the best Ret gear is the actual t5 and t6 Ret gear. WAY TO MAKE ME BLOW DKP BLIZZARD!!!!

But yeah I guess I do have maybe a slight advantage since I am farming t6 content. =/ I PvP with ummm 20 Resil (I think that's what the trinket has on it). Only cause s3 gear honestly isn't that great, at least not in my opinion.

ALSO!!! One of you Blood Elves need to give me Seal of Blood!!! I want to buy an instant increase of 30 to my overall DPS :(

But yeah, just 200 Resil alone hurts my burst, which makes me a very sad Draenei.

Fhenrir

03-31-2008, 04:28 AM

Resilience does make it possible to survive the insane amounts of burst that would otherwise be incredibly easy to accomplish in PvP or PvE gear alike for ret paladins, PoM Pyro mages, and others. Since it's so hard to find on PvE gear and so plentiful on PvP gear it also accomplishes a very important purpose in making it harder for straight PvEers to demolish people with no competition ala PvP at 60.

I unfortunately remember being completely destroyed by plenty of First Legion members during my PvP grind at 60 because my pathetic PvP and ZG gear couldn't even begin to keep up with the BWL+ stuff your members would regularly bring into BGs with them... not to mention the coordination of 15 of you destroying a PuG, but that's neither here nor there. :D

Resilience is a very good mechanic, albeit somewhat sloppily introduced originally, because it allows PvP encounters to last more than a few seconds. It also serves the purpose of seperating PvP and PvE gear, making each the best in their respective categories and preventing things from overlapping too much into one another as they did before. This is coming from someone who could've easily taken that axe you always boast about having tonight... if I didn't have my Season 3 mace already. *grins*

Heidenreich

03-31-2008, 04:52 AM

Dunno if this is where you got the name from, but, enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIGj2J5BIeI

Actually, that's exactly where I got my name from. When I orginally rolled this character on Coilfang my name was Reckadin. I made Reckoning look good again, granted I couldn't drop Ret Bombs, but I had a Feral Druid and an Enhancement Shaman with me everywhere I went. I don't know if Blizz fixed or changed it, but at the time Reckoning could proc off Windfury and vise versa. As well as they could chain off each other. Throw a Thrash Blade in there and the trinket from BRD and I could chain 3 to 8 hits at once. >.>

But when we decided to come back to TN, I figured I needed to have a real name, since I'm not a big fan of goofy names to begin with. I was playing Smackdown vs Raw at the time and my Create-A-Wrestler happened to be going against one Jon Heidenreich. After watching his intro and not just skipping it, I decided the theme was badass and that was going to be my guys name.

There theme has long left the character, it was the one in his orginal bio though. I then moved onto "King of Kings" by Motorhead (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeTFJBbwiok) or maybe better known as Triple H's theme (if there are WWE fans out there) and most recently changed it to "Whatever" by Our Lady Peace (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sde4Dg6juCY&feature=related) or better known as Chris Benoit's WWE Theme.

Lisbet

03-31-2008, 05:19 AM

If for no other reason than this...

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c391/Zancha/WoWScrnShot_022808_123509.jpg

Congratulations, you can kill a non-pvping resto druid at half health while in the middle of doing her dailies ;p

...isn't there a thread somewhere in here where people on the horde were bitching about people killing them while they were trying to do their dailies?

Heidenreich

03-31-2008, 05:32 AM

Resilience is a very good mechanic, albeit somewhat sloppily introduced originally, because it allows PvP encounters to last more than a few seconds. It also serves the purpose of seperating PvP and PvE gear, making each the best in their respective categories and preventing things from overlapping too much into one another as they did before.

I have to totally disagree with you here. All Resil allows is EXTREMELY crappy players to stand a chance at PvP (and no I am not calling you or anyone here a crappy player), by stacking as much Resil as possible.

*shrug* It's all good though, cause I BG and World PvP in my PvE gear and my whole 20 Resil and unless being focused fired (which tends to happen to me a lot), I will take 3 to 5 people down before I go down.

Skill WILL ALWAYS be GREATER then Gear!!!

Fhenrir

03-31-2008, 06:04 AM

Just do what I do.

Be talented and use Resilience.
*grins*

Yichimet

03-31-2008, 07:06 AM

*shrug* It's all good though, cause I BG and World PvP in my PvE gear and my whole 20 Resil and unless being focused fired (which tends to happen to me a lot), I will take 3 to 5 people down before I go down.

Skill WILL ALWAYS be GREATER then Gear!!!

Except your gear is some of the best gear in the game?

Lisbet

03-31-2008, 07:14 AM

Yea, but he was hard to kill before he had that gear, which is the point. My druid is like butter to cut, cause I fail at pvp. Gear can only help so much ;p

Ravennê

03-31-2008, 08:13 AM

A pali being hard to kill starts with the class that is doing the attacking. Next add in the skill of the opponents, then add in their gear. Gear is not necessarily greater than skill or vice versa, but when a great disparity exists either way it does make a fatal difference.

...and Lisbet, I am curious about what goes on in the mind of a ganker. I'm not talking about the coincidental situation, but the serial ganker (one example's name starts with a D). With my main I regularly ride by grays (or questers) that if the roles were reversed I'm sure I would be dead. Even when I'm grouped and have numerical superiority I try to discourage the useless ganking because it proves nothing other than 3>1. Fwiw, I've always considered the red=dead to be a copout.

Kiaransalius

03-31-2008, 08:17 AM

Malebrignon

03-31-2008, 09:17 AM

Yea, but he was hard to kill before he had that gear, which is the point.

Not for the Gadgetzan gaurds when him and a buddy tried to gang-bang my pally there.

/frown

Okay, so they had SOME trouble killing him. I must have stood there healing myself for five minutes.

Kiaransalius

03-31-2008, 10:29 AM

Pallies are supposed to be hard to kill... plate + healing + stamina + bubbles + stuns = annoying and difficult

Kaliera

03-31-2008, 10:38 AM

I have to totally disagree with you here. All Resil allows is EXTREMELY crappy players to stand a chance at PvP (and no I am not calling you or anyone here a crappy player), by stacking as much Resil as possible.

Again, feel free to explain how one can use skill to avoid being 1-2 by a PoM pyro mage without the use of PvP gear. Oh, wait, they only take that damage because they're terrible at this game, right?

Fynne

03-31-2008, 10:54 AM

Again, feel free to explain how one can use skill to avoid being 1-2 by a PoM pyro mage without the use of PvP gear. Oh, wait, they only take that damage because they're terrible at this game, right?

Stay out of range? Real men cloak? Don't put yourself in a position to be PoM-Pyroed in the first place? Realize that a "no resilience" environment works both ways, and that mage is squishy as hell?

Your tone is suggesting that you're unconvincable here. Why bother putting the "feel free to explain" other than to set it up for your "Oh, wait" -- I mean, if you want to have a dialogue with yourself anyway, don't come ruining what originally looks to me like a feel-good post making a friendly jibe at Heidenreich's cleaving-in-twain prowess.

I'd be pretty miffed if someone came and did that to the no-warglaives petition.

Sanrin

03-31-2008, 11:08 AM

To be fair Kali, PvE players do HIT harder...the tradeoff in theory is that they dont survive as long. I dont think calling pvpers with resil gear 'wusses' is the right way to go. After all, the whole point of this game is finding new ways to pvp. If I charged at a shadowpriest in my 300 shadow resistance gear you bet your ass he'd be cursing me out...but alls fair in love and war right? Potions, trinkets, cooldowns, do anything to win. So in the end Kali has just as much right to make fun of no resil and Heid does for those who use it. You're BOTH wrong for name calling, because in the end as long as you get the kills your means justify the ends in a sense.

Kaliera

03-31-2008, 11:27 AM

Your tone is suggesting that you're unconvincable here. Why bother putting the "feel free to explain" other than to set it up for your "Oh, wait" -- I mean, if you want to have a dialogue with yourself anyway, don't come ruining what originally looks to me like a feel-good post making a friendly jibe at Heidenreich's cleaving-in-twain prowess.

You make a fair point to start out with, and that's noted on my end. However, let me point out a few quotes here:

Take off your Resil gear and face me in REAL Ret gear. We can tango all night. No offense to the people that wear it, but Glad gear is garbage, if you want real PvP take the crap off.

"[No offense, but your gear is shit. Real PvP is done in PvE gear.]"

I have to totally disagree with you here. All Resil allows is EXTREMELY crappy players to stand a chance at PvP (and no I am not calling you or anyone here a crappy player), by stacking as much Resil as possible.

"[I'm not calling you crappy, but your gear is only useful for making shitty players able to survive.]"

Forgive me for pointing out illogical statements and downright attacks. For the record, I'm not saying players who PvP in PvE gear are idiots. MANY top-end 5v5 teams use PvE gear due to the insane amount of damage they can put out, making the DPS assist train almost impossible to heal through. Some people also have no access to PvP gear, so PvE gear is the only stuff they are even -capable- of PvPing in. It would be foolish of me to say that people who PvP in PvE gear are idiots. However, bluntly stating that PvP gear is garbage for PvP, and that resilience's only use is to make shitty players handicapped, what do you expect people to respond with?

Tillna

03-31-2008, 11:39 AM

My rogue has Veng gloves, s1 legs and rest Kara and s.5 gear, and while I notice a significant drop in damage, I do survive a lot longer then normal, able to actaully survive and outlive other people.

I lost some burst damage but now I linger like a bad cold

Daedraug

03-31-2008, 11:52 AM

Again, feel free to explain how one can use skill to avoid being 1-2 by a PoM pyro mage without the use of PvP gear.

Cloak of Skillz, or course. Cloak of Skillz.

Jeedup

03-31-2008, 11:59 AM

This went from a funny discussion of Aquizit getting his bum handed to him, to a word war on Resiliance.

I like pie.

Fynne

03-31-2008, 12:01 PM

Well, yeah, of course Heidenreich is out of line. But he's out of line in a thread about him! And he's my guildie! And he can cut me in half if I point out that he overstepped the "faux-leet bravado" line.

Kaldore

03-31-2008, 12:02 PM

I've got some really excellent DPS gear from Vashj and even BT, but if I want to PVP I'm going to put on the Blue PVP gear I bought off the quartermasters when 2.4 came out.

Oh well, hopefully I can get some SSC/TK pugs together for T5 tokens to buy some season 2 gear.

>_<

Aquizit

03-31-2008, 12:11 PM

To be fair Kali, PvE players do HIT harder...the tradeoff in theory is that they dont survive as long.

FACT!

When Aquizit was in his arena team (albeit SHITTY arena team) it worked like this.

2v2 - rogue warlock

If they went after the rogue first, we seemed to win.

If they went after me first, I went down faster than a dress on prom night and we got our asses handed to us.

Why? She had resil, I didn't.. but if I lived, my dots ticked pretty hard.

Kaliera

03-31-2008, 12:56 PM

And he's my guildie!

He's totally half my guildie too. <First and a Half Legion> represent. *gang signs*

Agnarr

03-31-2008, 01:03 PM

Cloak of Skillz, or course. Cloak of Skillz.

Learn2spellreflect

Heidenreich

03-31-2008, 01:26 PM

See I never threw an actual insult. If you want to take what I am saying out of context into insults, I'll make it easier and just insult.

Warrior/Druid team in 2's.....can we get any easier of a combo to play? 2 Half retarded monkeys could get that combo to 2k without a problem. Hell give Kaldore a Druid and I guarntee he could hit 2k Rating! (Sorry Kal)

Let's see...

Druids Role: Cyclone, Cyclone, Feral Charge, Bash, Cyclone...much skillz there AND since you are a Tauren let's throw in the occasional War Stomp.
As well as Lifebloom, Lifebloom, Lifebloom, Travel Form and Run.

Warriors Role: MS, Hamstring, beat face til bloody. Occasionally Pummel and take a few steps back to Intercept.

NOW SEE this was never meant to turn into a flame battle, but you want to take it to that level that's fine. When you play something other then the most OP healing class in arenas come talk to me.

Druids are the ultimate CC and Healers in Arena. Cause they don't have to cast shit. It's all instant cast, minus Cyclone. Which Blizzard nerfed cause it was obviously Over Powered.

Again, feel free to explain how one can use skill to avoid being 1-2 by a PoM pyro mage without the use of PvP gear. Oh, wait, they only take that damage because they're terrible at this game, right?

Fynne already took the time to explain a few of the ways. Another one would be get ready to hit your Health Pot or Healthstone button.

(In 0 Resil Situations)

Ummm ok so the mage PoM/Pyro Blasts me and then I immeaditly walk up to him and one to two shot him before he is capable of his next attack. OR I HoJ him he blinks, I Repent him and he is a sitting target.

OR when I was a Priest....
I Bubble, Heal, Fear the mage, start my mana burn on him. Mage dies.

OR when I was a Druid....
I heal myself, starfire, moonfire, wrath, heal myself. Mage dies.

MANY top-end 5v5 teams use PvE gear due to the insane amount of damage they can put out, making the DPS assist train almost impossible to heal through.

EXACTLY, cause the real hardcore PvPers know that PvE gear WILL ALWAYS be better then PvP gear. Resil is a crutch!

He's totally half my guildie too. <First and a Half Legion> represent. *gang signs*

Would so make me 1 and 1/2 your guildie, not half!!!

Now I am going to step away from these forums for a few days, cause starting a flame war is 1) The Last thing I wanted to do 2) Never wanted to cause headaches for the mods and people that run this site.

So feel free to continue to take what I say out of context if you chose to. I'm obviously going to be in the wrong no matter what I say cause you chose to misquote me.

Tillna

03-31-2008, 01:33 PM

Problem is, I have no tier 6 gear, or Anything higher then Kara on my rogue...

Kaldore

03-31-2008, 01:36 PM

Yichimet

03-31-2008, 01:58 PM

God, give me the strength to bear the conversations that happen on internet boards, amen.

Kaliera

03-31-2008, 02:00 PM

I'd like to say for the record that I don't think I could hit 2K rating in Arena even with Anuj.

And that I know Kaliera from vent, and he's always a really nice and funny person. I really don't think that anything he said was THAT bad.

So lets all be fwens.

I admit, I did get carried away.

As far as what I play though, I'm a part of multiple teams. I play my restoration druid in 3s currently. (Heid is right, warrior + druid is ridiculously easy to hit high ratings with, but so is FMage + rogue, lock + rogue, lock + druid, hunter + priest/druid, rogue + priest, and so in. 2s is a mess right now. If you're not one of the above combinations, it's almost assured you won't hit 2k. :( ) The 3s bracket introduces something that the 2s bracket can't really compare with, that being the ability for 2-3 players to focus the druid. Healing the 3s bracket is -intense- when it's a bracket dominated by double melee, which tends to absolutely destroy druids.

I also play a warrior in a non-cookie cutter setup (warrior + holy paladin + feral druid), which is also 2k+. My shaman in less than optimal PvP gear (790 spell damage, /headdesk) saw 1840 in 5s. My experience in PvP is not solely limited to the 2s bracket as a resto druid with a mace warrior.

...Though I think we can all agree that mace stun and pillar humping is the epitome of PvP skillz, rite?? :>

Fhenrir

03-31-2008, 04:25 PM

As far as what I play though, I'm a part of multiple teams. I play my restoration druid in 3s currently. (Heid is right, warrior + druid is ridiculously easy to hit high ratings with, but so is FMage + rogue, lock + rogue, lock + druid, hunter + priest/druid, rogue + priest, and so in. 2s is a mess right now. If you're not one of the above combinations, it's almost assured you won't hit 2k. :( ) The 3s bracket introduces something that the 2s bracket can't really compare with, that being the ability for 2-3 players to focus the druid. Healing the 3s bracket is -intense- when it's a bracket dominated by double melee, which tends to absolutely destroy druids.

I also play a warrior in a non-cookie cutter setup (warrior + holy paladin + feral druid), which is also 2k+. My shaman in less than optimal PvP gear (790 spell damage, /headdesk) saw 1840 in 5s. My experience in PvP is not solely limited to the 2s bracket as a resto druid with a mace warrior.

Blah blah blah, I'm awesome.

That's what I got from this post. :D

Kaliera

03-31-2008, 04:46 PM

Blah blah blah, I'm awesome.

That's what I got from this post. :D

Also that mace warriors blow.

Sanrin

03-31-2008, 05:23 PM

: / Wheres the part where you also mention im cool? I NEED ATTENTION!

Tillna

03-31-2008, 05:33 PM

You're a mod, and therefore can make us say you're awesome.

Also, to add, Sanrin is Awesome

Swerto

03-31-2008, 05:35 PM

Sanrin fails remember?

..AT FAILING!

Sanrin

03-31-2008, 06:18 PM

Excellent.

Fallacy

03-31-2008, 06:56 PM

Sanrin has to be on TN to be cool.

Shadowspeak

03-31-2008, 06:57 PM

risiliance is good because it at least helps classes like mine survive (At least for a bit) against the inevitable rediculous melee DPS

Lisbet

03-31-2008, 09:22 PM

Or you could re spec Disc and then they can't kill you even with out resilience ;p

Shadowspeak

03-31-2008, 11:22 PM

my name is Shadowspeak.

Disciplin priests might be hard to kill, but I'll take my damage over theirs any day.

Fynne

04-01-2008, 12:01 AM

I'll take all your damage vs. my Sharahz gear.

Fallacy

04-01-2008, 12:06 AM

So, Fynne, I heard a Warglaive dropped...

Rand_Shea

04-01-2008, 04:41 AM

Elek and his screenshots... He still likes to hold onto the days when Kimiko was around.

Still want to see him and your hubby duel... And when they do, I wanna watch!

As for the resilience argument....

I both love and hate resilience. It gives me a chance to compete, while at the same time giving complete idiots who bought spots on high ranking 5v5's for a few weeks to completely kick my ass while I do a pittance's worth of damage back to them.

However... I prefer having it, because I don't like the concept of not being able to compete against all the high end raiding guilds who farm T6 gear for their members.

Swerto

04-01-2008, 07:32 AM

I love being the tool that Sanrin uses to show us his excellence

Fynne

04-01-2008, 07:46 AM

So, Fynne, I heard a Warglaive dropped...

Yeah, but I'll keep my drama politely in whispers and in-guild, thank you. What happens in First Legion, stays in First Legion.

Rand_Shea

04-01-2008, 03:38 PM

Yeah, but I'll keep my drama politely in whispers and in-guild, thank you. What happens in First Legion, stays in First Legion.

You have my sympathy. :(

Grev

04-01-2008, 04:29 PM

I both love and hate resilience. It gives me a chance to compete, while at the same time giving complete idiots who bought spots on high ranking 5v5's for a few weeks to completely kick my ass while I do a pittance's worth of damage back to them.
This is why arenas should be done in the format of the PTR tournaments. Arena players should be equally geared, while in the arena. The good players earn points to buy arena pieces to use outside of the arena.

That's why resilience fails. It forces bad players to be basically indestructible to lesser-geared, but better skilled players.

Of course, from Blizzard's perspective their current system is good. It forces players into a time-sink to earn gear just to be able to compete, which is good for business.

And anyone who cries about "hand outs" or "welfare epics" fails at video games.

Fallacy

04-01-2008, 04:35 PM

They already are, it's called the Tournament Realms.

Rand_Shea

04-01-2008, 05:29 PM

This is why arenas should be done in the format of the PTR tournaments. Arena players should be equally geared, while in the arena. The good players earn points to buy arena pieces to use outside of the arena.

That's why resilience fails. It forces bad players to be basically indestructible to lesser-geared, but better skilled players.

Of course, from Blizzard's perspective their current system is good. It forces players into a time-sink to earn gear just to be able to compete, which is good for business.

And anyone who cries about "hand outs" or "welfare epics" fails at video games.

I wasn't even really talking about arenas... I have yet to even seriously consider finding myself a team, though I want to because S2 gear is so awesome looking.

I was referring more to world pvp... nothing's going to stop a tier 6 geared out alliance from going to a contested zone, finding me, and then attacking. There's no matchmaking system when it comes to random encounters.

For those encounters, however... rather than getting blown up or cleaved in half and wondering what the hell happened, I'd at least like a chance to get off a few shots... At the very least, a scorpid sting on a melee (especially rogues... you can't stealth away with that on you unless you vanish) or a viper sting on a caster at least makes them slightly vulnerable to whatever other horde are around and want to exploit an opportunity for an HK.

But, as someone said before... gear means little without skill, no matter how good it is or how much of a pain in the ass it is to get through. I've killed people decked out in season 3 arena epics when they've tried to gank me, and I've killed people in tier 6 stuff too... I usually call people like that "ebayers", but the point still stands... having all the coolest toys and shiniest clothes doesn't make you suck less. Especially if you didn't earn that stuff yourself.

Resilience needs to be fixed, but as for taking it out of the game entirely... no.

Kaliera

04-01-2008, 05:49 PM

That's why resilience fails. It forces bad players to be basically indestructible to lesser-geared, but better skilled players.

Not really. With the availability of s1 gear for honor, and the latest blue set addition for a petty sum of gold and even less impressive reputation requirements, resilience is easier than ever to gather up. A number of teams this season have stomped their way to the 2k+ range using this gear, which is decidedly worse than s3 gear as far as damage/healing stats go, by making use of superior skill.

Elek Quentin

04-01-2008, 11:32 PM

Congratulations, you can kill a non-pvping resto druid at half health while in the middle of doing her dailies ;p

...isn't there a thread somewhere in here where people on the horde were bitching about people killing them while they were trying to do their dailies?

The only thing I have to say about this is...

Cry more. PVP happened on a PVP server. First Legion got Ganked. Again.

Take off your Resil gear and face me in REAL Ret gear. We can tango all night. No offense to the people that wear it, but Glad gear is garbage, if you want real PvP take the crap off. Check my armory anytime, you will never catch me in any of that garbage; I have it but I don't wear it.

Yes... garbage for PVE. Sorry, I didn't happen to have the time to farm three sets of T6 gear and couldn't in my prior guild. I make do with what I have. Garbage or not, if it works, I'm using it. I've no desire to dance until the sun sets, I'd rather drop the first batch of 20 honor points and move on to the next.

I don't see a reason to fuss about resil gear either, especially if you are feel you are better than it. Unless you see it as some sort of threat, why waste your breath? I'm amused at how quickly this exploded into a rant and flame-fest. From one page comes four... and nearly as quickly as that old "you don't get to gank first legion" thread from last year.

So how about this... rather than "my T6 > your S-whatever", how about we just look forward to the screenshot of who kills who as ret? It'd be a whole lot more entertaining than a debate I'd think.

Kaldore

04-02-2008, 07:17 AM

Elek are you holding on to one exchange, with one member of First Legion, who isn't in the guild anymore, from over a year ago?

Wait is this April Fools, or did Kimi really cheese you off THAT much? If so thats some extremely successful crossfaction trolling and it basically makes you look a little silly.

Lisbet

04-02-2008, 08:11 AM

Wow, seriously ;p I wasn't even in the guild for that whole thing.. you really need to get past it and realize that just because I have "First Legion" floating over my head does not make me an asshole. You can even go as far as to ask hordies on this server, I bet they'll say "yea she's not that bad" or even as far as "Yea she's nice!"

Heid gets passionate about stuff (see posts in this thread) but he's not a bad person either. Fynne is all about his hair, but he's a great guy too.

Kaldore's an asshole irl, so he needs to be a good guy in game to ballance himself out :P

Just because Kimi pulled some shit almost a year ago (she's not even on our server anymore, btw) and dragged the guild through the mud, doesn't at all mean that you get to treat us like shit for the rest of our lives when the vast majority of us treat horde with great respect. Most of us have horde alts, for cripes sake. Its just a game Elek.. and my comment about getting ganked at half health while doing dailies, while truthful, as a joke ;p

Breath, it'll be okay.

Kaldore

04-02-2008, 09:50 AM

Kaldore's an asshole irl, so he needs to be a good guy in game to ballance himself out :P

Don't you dare make me out to be a nice guy Maemae! I have a widespread reputation as a vicious forum troll and interwebz goon to maintain.

Sanrin

04-02-2008, 10:39 AM

This game would be dumb if everyone instantly got the same gear. Theres enough standardization going on with casuals taking away attunement requirements and whatnot.

Fynne

04-02-2008, 12:04 PM

Seriously though, Kaldore is a giant asshole.

We nearly wipe on Naj'entus yesterday because he's some kind of incompetent cant-stay-alive tank, and yours truly has the quick reflexes to pop evasion since he's invariably #2 threat. Awesomesauce here holds off Naj'entus for 15s of not-panic so that our DPS kitty can go bear, click off salv, and climb threat like mad, as per coordination in vent.

We down the boss. What does Kaldore say?

"Nice job Tist." Any mention of Fynne? 'Course not.

What an assbag.

Kaliera

04-02-2008, 02:51 PM

"Nice job Tist."

Hurray for Tist!

Kaldore

04-02-2008, 02:56 PM

Hurray for Tist!

Yeah Tist was amazing last night at Najentus. He turned a potential wipe into a one shot.

Agnarr

04-02-2008, 03:09 PM

Tist rocks my face.

Kaldore

04-02-2008, 03:21 PM

Tist rocks my face.

I have to say, Tist is flat-out amazing at every single role he's asked to play: Bear Tanking, Cat DPS, Tree Healing.

He's the first person I think of when I hear the term "Hybrid Class."

WTB 24 more Tist

Heidenreich

04-02-2008, 03:30 PM

WTB Tank that doesn't DC as we pull Illidan!

Fallacy

04-02-2008, 03:32 PM

Tist is a jerk because he and two other mages Starfall'd/Double Pyroblasted me at Quel'Danas!

Okay not really, but it was kind of funny, seeing as I wasn't wearing PvP gear and getting killed in about a second and a half.

Kaldore

04-02-2008, 03:35 PM

WTB Tank that doesn't DC as we pull Illidan!

Meh, even with my horrible ping and barely missing 20 shears - I still managed to get him down on the 2nd attempt.

Besides, I knew he didn't have the Glaive that time.

Fynne

04-02-2008, 03:59 PM

It's like you want my spirit to be crushed.

Grev

04-02-2008, 04:17 PM

This game would be dumb if everyone instantly got the same gear. Theres enough standardization going on with casuals taking away attunement requirements and whatnot.
I didn't say players should instantly get the same gear. I'm saying in the arena, which emphasizes PvP competition, players should be on a level playing field. That level playing field should not exist outside of the arena though. Why would that be dumb? That would actually be smart because it would emphasize skill and actually legitimize competitive PvP.

Not really. With the availability of s1 gear for honor, and the latest blue set addition for a petty sum of gold and even less impressive reputation requirements, resilience is easier than ever to gather up. A number of teams this season have stomped their way to the 2k+ range using this gear, which is decidedly worse than s3 gear as far as damage/healing stats go, by making use of superior skill.
The new blue sets are a joke. If they really wanted to give new players an edge they'd make S1 gear available for rep rewards instead of getting rid of it completely when S2 moves to honor. And having to suffer through the honor grind just to realistically compete in the arenas is not the solution to making competitive PvP more accessible to new players.

But I realize this is an MMO and its entire success is based around being a time sink. It would be stupid of Blizzard to make competing in the arenas so easy, but from a player's standpoint it would make sense that way. If you truly want a competitive atmosphere where skill precedes gear.

Qabian

04-02-2008, 04:18 PM

Don't you dare make me out to be a nice guy Maemae! I have a widespread reputation as a vicious forum troll and interwebz goon to maintain.

Then it wasn't you who called off that warlock in Hellfire despite the incident at that Shadowmoon mining point and my "accidental" Cone of Cold in your face? Hmm. Heck, even Fynne just walked away in Hellfire when I was all by my lonesome. You mean I'm safe to quest alone now? What is this world coming to? I'm starting to suspect First Legion may actually be an entire guild full of nice guys, only ready to kick my ass after I start killing innocents.

Kaliera

04-02-2008, 04:52 PM

The new blue sets are a joke. If they really wanted to give new players an edge they'd make S1 gear available for rep rewards instead of getting rid of it completely when S2 moves to honor. And having to suffer through the honor grind just to realistically compete in the arenas is not the solution to making competitive PvP more accessible to new players.

Yes, give everyone epics for 5 gold a piece and honored reputation requirement. Awesome. The blue sets allow people to PvP straight out of 70 without being completely useless. That's a lot better than the nothing that was in place before.

Kaldore

04-02-2008, 05:45 PM

Then it wasn't you who called off that warlock in Hellfire despite the incident at that Shadowmoon mining point and my "accidental" Cone of Cold in your face?

The best thing that I do is swoop in when Horde (especially Mages) have bitten off more than they can chew and then AOE Taunt all the mobs off of them and give them time to Evo or Bandage.

However most of the time they just take that opportunity to then blast me in the face with spells.

Yichimet

04-02-2008, 05:47 PM

DO YOU SEE WHAT KINDNESS GETS YOU?! DO YOU?!

Acherontia

04-03-2008, 05:34 AM

You mean I'm safe to quest alone now? What is this world coming to? I'm starting to suspect First Legion may actually be an entire guild full of nice guys, only ready to kick my ass after I start killing innocents.

Yanno, I was over in BEM doing my demon-banishing quest and I turned around and there was Kaldore and he - he waved at me.

So I nodded at him, as I do with Alliance when I'm busy and would rather not have them interfering with me getting my work done (making a mental note to kill them later when I'm on my way out, of course) and...and that's it.

...

For the rest of the time, though, I half expected to hear WHOOSH WHOOSH WHOOSH, dismount, stealth, rip as Fynne swooped in off his netherdrake and proceeded to remove what few organs Acherontia has left in her body because Kaldore called in a FYI ("Hey, Fynne, just so ya know...").

It's madness, I tell you!

Villayna

04-03-2008, 06:39 AM

I (in my Mortica incarnation) was ganked by First Legion yesterday!

Die all Alliance scumbags!

((I'm sure it had nothing to do with me throw-pulling an erratic sentry that Sorowind and Tist had targeted...))

Tsu

04-04-2008, 07:54 PM

actually, we've just been killing any horde we see out at quel'danas... I'm treating it like a warzone, because it's the only place i can get good world pvp without people running with their tails tucked on their netherdrakes after one death.

slightly on topic, i like the blue pvp set for no other reason other than it allows my lil belf lock alt to have resil upon hitting 70 for free basically.

Assuming I ever level her to 70.

Busy on my druid, and spare time being used to learn resto shaman for the tourney realms >_<

~ Tist

ps - fynne, *I* appreciate the 15 seconds of setup time you gave me on najentus ;P