Rogue Q

[Tillna]

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?0010000000000000000000050550100055100 000000005002531002301210500300

For a Mace PVP spec, how does this look?

Not sure...but I think it is good...

;>>

[Nicoleta]

That's not a mace PvP spec. It's a Shadowstep build.

Mace PvP is about the stuns from the mace specialization talent, which is in the combat tree. For that, you'd want a hemo-adrenaline rush build, which is still very viable despite the recent nerf.

[Emmons]

Tillna, if you spec pvp maces, so help me Xenu I will hunt you down wherever you live, drop my drawers and take a very swift shit down your throat.

But to answer your question, no. The point of maces is the stun proc, and you have only 3 points in combat.

[Nomeni]

I feel sick linking this. ( http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?0000000000000000000000053052020055100 020010005002530002301010000000)

Its just bare bones, but still...

[Tillna]

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?0010000000000000000000050550100055100 000000005002531002301210500300

That's Cause I posted the wrong one...><

[Emmons]

You want the first one with daggers, killing casters quickly is more fun.

[Drinn]

It really depends on what you're trying to do with said maces.
Are you PvE or PvP?

Also, Emmons.. you don't get to talk any smack to mace rogues. Since you didn't know you could still sap with maces...

[Tillna]

PVP, Pure and simple

[Emmons]

It really depends on what you're trying to do with said maces.
Are you PvE or PvP?

Also, Emmons.. you don't get to talk any smack to mace rogues. Since you didn't know you could still sap with maces...

I get to talk all the smack I want about mace rogues because a rogue wielding a mace is the dumbest idea ever.

In my defence, I knew you could SAP with maces. I didn't know about the improved sap change because I've ignored it since the old 15-man UBRS days on account of it being a wasted talent on my part.

Also, mace rogues are dumb, just ask Syreena.

[Swerto]

So you're calling my dad dumb? I'd like to see you say that to his face.

Mace is just annoying when you're on the receiving end, there is no "Dumb" to it.

[Emmons]

Rogues use pointy weapons.

Boycott maces!

[Tillna]

Ok, switch the maces to sword, how is the spec?

[Emmons]

I dunno I suck at Pee Vee Pee.

[Drinn]

In my defence, I knew you could SAP with maces. I didn't know about the improved sap change because I've ignored it since the old 15-man UBRS days on account of it being a wasted talent on my part.

Also, mace rogues are dumb, just ask Syreena.


Really? I recall having to explain that sapping wasn't a dagger thing and that it was like using a blackjack.
Hmph.

Also, Syreena has respect for stun locking rogues becase she's not a nub.

Edit:
To get back on topic for Tillnas pvp spec:

It looks like you have a very strong ShS set up. The improved gouge doesn't seem like it would be the best use of points though since you're speccing so far enough into assassination. You might want to look into a combo vile and improved poisons. You're setting yourself up for a very awesome spec but it's based on finesse and shiving with its damage increase will be your best friend.

[Emmons]

That wasn't me then. I recall a conversation about saps, but I've always know that this:

http://www.blade-empire.com/Law_Enforcement/Blackjack-Large-.jpg

Is a sap. Even has a pretty picture in the D&D book labaled sap.

My argument against maces and rogues is not from a game mechanic standpoint. Mechanicwise, it is a very viable PvP choice. My opinion is based on the fact that maces are a very unroguelike weapon. Unless you're fighting skeletons and it's D&D, then it is excusable.

[Tillna]

Re check it, I miss linked it

[Drinn]

If you're going to do a combat/sub you could with the old awesome HARP 31/30 spec. It's a redunkulous stunlock spec. Also, improved sprint = life.
I'm currently just hemo/prep spec which is also decent I just placed a few points randomly for a little more damage instead AR.

Edit: Example of 31/30 = http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhxV0rVt0M0oZxMeoMhRox

It was OP before the last patch where they nerfed the damage to hemo but still awesome and still allows for some comfyness when new to the world of rogueyness.

[Jeedup]

I can see Emmons point on maces, but I guess it sorta makes sense, ya know, blackjacks?

[Nicoleta]

I can see Emmons point on maces, but I guess it sorta makes sense, ya know, blackjacks?

Traditionally, a blackjack is a leather bag-like object filled with sand, or for a more modern variant, a sock filled with quarters. Mace rogues wield giant-ass spikey clubs, such as the overly-common season 2 mace. Emmons' point is that, as far as weapons go, a giant-ass spikey club is about as unsubtle as it gets.

Unfortunately, I would have to counter that all the modern, Outland weaponry looks rather ridiculous from a subtlety point of view. Phia wields gigantic fist weapons that extend past her knees and glow a bright red. Before that, she had a pair of monstrous swords covered in sickly-looking glowing green runes. Gone is the simple elegance of the Arcanite Reaper, which for the most part looked like a semi-realistic steel axe. Everything's gotta be day-glo pink and the size of a Cadillac, even daggers (which rogues seem to have abandoned with the addition of resilience to the game anyway).

[Tillna]

Screw elegance.

Any way, I love the look of it, and so stunariffic...

*drools*

[Daedraug]

I agree with Emmons 100&#37;.

If only the rogue instructor at the World's End would re-open her academy! She agrees with us too!

I realize at this point that nothing rogues wear looks very sneaky, though, so all suspension of disbelief might as well be cranked to 11.

And did Swerto drop a 'my dad is tougher than you,' on Emmons? Ouch - how's that blast from the third grade straight to yo face feel?

[Bir]

Re-roll a paladin.

[Syreena]

I miss daggers. Daggers are the most rogue-ish weapons. :( They're just not as effective anymore as swords/fists for PVE or maces for PVP.

The 0/31/30 build that Drinn linked is a PVP stunlock build. It's called HARP--Hemo AR (adrenaline rush) and Prep. Imp Gouge gives your gouge enough time for you to get out of combat and restealth without having to burn Vanish. Mace spec stuns. Hemo gets you cheaper combo points for more control over when you kidney shot. You get your burst damage from Blade Flurry and Adrenaline Rush.

[Beutha]

Actually I've been following this thread as I just the other day had a rare drop off a Hellboar in Hellfire Peninsula.

Fist of Reckoning (http://thottbot.com/i31139)

Now I'm presently a sword MH/dagger or fist OH rogue with a 31/0/30 spec. I really never intended to try a mace spec but that drop is so very sweet its hard to ignore. Instead of a duel wield mace spec I was looking at using it MH and keeping a dagger for OH poison procs. I will be PvP'ing a lot but right now at lvl 60 my focus is on levelling up a bit which means I will need to stay PvE viable.

Any suggestions?

[Syreena]

Now I'm presently a sword MH/dagger or fist OH rogue with a 31/0/30 spec. I really never intended to try a mace spec but that drop is so very sweet its hard to ignore. Instead of a duel wield mace spec I was looking at using it MH and keeping a dagger for OH poison procs. I will be PvP'ing a lot but right now at lvl 60 my focus is on levelling up a bit which means I will need to stay PvE viable.

Any suggestions?

With 31/0/30, the mace won't be any different than using a sword. If you respec to get mace specialization though, you will get more stun procs with a mace in both hands. You're still leveling though, so there's no need to try to min/max anything yet. If you want to keep a dagger in your offhand, go for it! (Drinn can verify. I believe maces in the offhand can trigger the proc, just like with swords, but I've never played with maces.)

While you're leveling is the time to experiment with different things like this, before you get to 70 and invest a lot of time and gold into gearing and speccing for any particular thing--PVE/PVP, weapon type, spec, etc. It gets more expensive to make big changes after that. While you're leveling, it's easier to try out whatever you want, because you usually won't have much invested in gems and enchants, and there's always new gear right around the corner if you want to replace something.

I have a 56 rogue alt. I keep a sword in her mainhand, and a dagger in the offhand so I could level up both weapon skills at once. She's sword specced, even with the dagger offhand. I'm not trying to maximize damage with her, so the lost sword procs aren't an issue. As long as the mobs die before I do, I'm happy. And I won't have to spend time leveling dagger skill later when I switch her to Mutilate.

[Beutha]

Actually that makes a lot of sense. Rather that waste a respec and hike up the cost for next time, Ill just stick with my present build and just start using the mace in my Main Hand instead of the sword.

Like you said, after lvl 65 it will be replaced by better gear from the Reservoir in any case.

[Roth'rili]

Mutilate to me is such a fun spec personally really fast combo point builder I think. That and coldblood or any crit its fun to watch as both MH and OF both crit when you use it. Personally my UD rogue at 52 is to fun to try any other spec the mutilate I love it his spec will eventually be pretty cookie cutter resting at 41/20/0 so I can get DW spec in combat tree to increase my off hand dmg of mutilate more. With Mutilate spec you don't really need a fast oh either I can have some nice hitting daggers in both hands.

[Sifar]

With how "wrong" Sifar is in Daedraug's eyes, I'm surprised he even talks to her. :)

As for the mace off-hand getting stuns, yes it does. I've had the worst time trying to keep/find two decent maces on hand, so I tend to trade them around with any decent daggers I pick up from quests. I'd really like to know when Blizz decided that only magic-wielders used maces. If I visit the AH one more day and find only "of the Elder" maces for sale, I just might give it up.

[Syreena]

Mutilate was my favorite spec too. :) I'm going 41/0/20 on my alt. Less damage, but more sneaky fun. I just can't decide when to make the switch. Combat swords leveling is so fast.

I was 41/0/20 for a while before and loved it. To me, it was everything a rogue is all about -- daggers, poisons, sneakiness.

[Tillna]

Level 70 PVP maces

[Drinn]

I want a roguey 2v2 team called InYerFacesWitMaces.

Please me.
Now.

[Nicoleta]

Phia was mutilate at 60, but switched to a 31/0/30 build to level up. I liked this build because I could use anything with it, it wasn't dependent on positioning, and was generally fun.

I switched to a hemo-shadowstep build a few weeks ago, and am finding it super fun for battlegrounds and 2v2 arena. I'm like Nightcrawler, but with stabbing.

[Roth'rili]

Mutilate was my favorite spec too. :) I'm going 41/0/20 on my alt. Less damage, but more sneaky fun. I just can't decide when to make the switch. Combat swords leveling is so fast.

I was 41/0/20 for a while before and loved it. To me, it was everything a rogue is all about -- daggers, poisons, sneakiness.

Yeah I agree I have always wanted some points in sub for the sneakiness cause when I htink rogue I think what you just said. A theif, pickpocket, opprunist. While 41/20/0 seems a little bit more on the actual assassin path then a rogue. I've always wanted to play a rogue as shadow step spec only cause that is the sneakest in the shadows as you can get and really reminds me of a theif character.

And Sifar even though you hates alliance AH I absolutely!!! Hate our AH with a passion. Who ever is putting lvl 40 mail armor on the AH for 30g-80g a piece for monkey or something for a hunters needs to DIAF!! /cries I can't gear my hunter at all.

I found no problem on this side though in gearing a rogue daggers of monkey if I remember were a little expensive, but I BGed so much on my rogue I usually geared him via BG vendor stuff his lvl hehe. But I see your pain in mace spec rogues cause really the only mace spec rogues I find usually have to go blacksmithing so they can go into hammers and make the 1h maces =/

[Daedraug]

With how "wrong" Sifar is in Daedraug's eyes, I'm surprised he even talks to her.

I actually had a conversation with Duryea about that. I told him I certainly don't care what you play, but Dae will have some IC "advice," on the matter. :)

[Ariashley]

There are 5 basic PvP builds for rogues at the current time. Almost everyone who is anyone is shadowstep. You can see examples of rogues that use them to good effect at http://shadowpanther.net/pvprogues.htm.

Decent Mobility/Decent Sustained Damage/Good Combo Point Generation on open/Good control/limited burst/good survivability= 20/0/41, 17/3/41. Basically, Shadowstep + Assassination talents.

Limited Mobility/Good sustained damage/decent energy regen/decent burst/decent control/limited survivability = HARP, 0/31/30 with maces

Very limited mobility/good burst/limited control/positional/decent survivability with a healer = mutilate, 41+/20-/0

There's also mutilate/sub, 41+/0/20-, only true advantage is combo point generation and extra crit on backstab.

High sustained damage/good energy regen/limited survivability/limited control = full combat, 19/42/0

Bascially, of all the rogues that were previously HARP and mutilate, most of them have switched to Shstep.

[Dewce]

The BEST rogue mobility comes from this build. You get the imp sprint and ShS.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfV0bVZxrI0MGRoxst

Personally, I feel that mobility is only half the battle, which is why I like the HARP build over everything. I've tried them all, was mutilate both combat and sub forever, I've played full sub as well. If you want raw damage with some mobility i'd do a combat sward HARP build. Mace stuns are just too clutch though, they have saved my ass many many times. I swear by them.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhgV0bVt0M0RZxrI0MuRoh

this is pretty much what I use for pvp with some variations if I feel like trying some stuff out. I don't feel shadowstep is really as useful as people make it out to be. If it acted like imp sprint and removed snares/roots that would be a different story. Though, I will say cheat death is pretty god damn awesome.