Magic, magic, magic, what's the bloody difference?

[Naheal]

I've done some research into arcane magic to see what it is and what exactly it does and here's a couple things I found.

Specifically referencing Arcane magic (Mages), but this may end up applying to magic as a whole.

From wowwiki:


The Four Laws
Magic is Powerful.
Magic in Azeroth is the difference between a slave and a master, a foot soldier and king. Few races and nations can operate without powerful mages and warlocks. The use of arcane magic is growing; historically, each time this has happened before, a great disaster shortly follows. However, even though the history of the arcane is well known, mages and their patrons invariably come to the same self-serving conclusion: It won't happen to them.

Magic is Corrupting.
Magic corrupts the soul; if the humblest person in Azeroth became a practitioner of the arcane, by the time the practitioner reached the higher levels in their art, all traces of her humble roots would be lost. Magic breeds pride and arrogance. Magic corrupts the body; it ages the caster before their time and hastens the blight that the world inflicts on things fair and beautiful.

Magic is an Addiction.
When one feels the power of an arcane spell coursing through one's body as it's being cast, resisting the urge to cast it again is difficult.

Magic attracts the Twisting Nether Like Flies to Honey.
The Burning Legion has invaded Azeroth three times, drawn by the power of the Well of Eternity and those who employ it. Magic is a literal gateway drug that allows dark titans such as Sargeras to bring evil influences to the world. Those who employ arcane magic must deal with demons and other serveants of the Twisting Nether.M&M 15

Alright, now into the "meat and potatoes" of magic.


The Arcane (aka arcane magic) is a general term for various domains of magic in Warcraft lore used in contrast with divine magic. According to lore many of the types of magic found as "Schools" in World of Warcraft are actually all forms of Arcane magic. Unlike in the MMO, fire and frost are actually part of the arcane rather than being separate forms of magic. Lore also includes some so-called "shadow" spells as part the arcane as well, as magic practiced by warlocks and necromancers.

There isn't a true "Arcane" domain per se in lore, but the magic is folded into arcane as a whole along with fire and frost, although it does seem to have similarities with the domain of air. According to a quest line in TBC, some forms of so called arcane school may be combination of the four elements of fire, earth, air, and water (see arcane elemental).

Now, this made me think a little. Arcane being the same as Fel or even Necromancy? It's not a completely new idea to me, as, in DnD and such, "Fel" magic is simply another form of Arcane magic and Necromancy is simply another school of magic. So I thought, what is it first? Where does it come from?


Arcane magic is the gift of titans to the world, a gift that comes with the highest price. Thousands of years ago, the titans placed the Well of Eternity in the center of Kalimdor to serve as a source of restoring, life-giving energy. They intended that the well's energies would empower life of all forms to emerge on Kalimdor - plants, animals, monsters, races.

This is interesting to me. Arcane is a gift from the titans which the Dwarves hold dear and consider to be close to the old gods. (correct me if I'm wrong)

So, I give this some thought. It makes some sense, as Arcane magic can change what exists in the world to something else (Polymorph), create something for nothing (Conjure food/water), or lay waste to those who stand in their way (Insert random spell).

Then, I went a little deeper to see what Fel magic was, as I always thought that it was something completely different... Here's what I found.


The ultimate manifestation of the demonic arcane on Azeroth is fel energy (aka fel, fel magic). This energy, which most commonly manifests itself as ghastly, green-yellow flame, is arcane magic at its most corrupt, for it employs the blood of demons. Spells with the fel discriptor are very difficult to resist. Casting a fel spell is described by many spellcasters as a euphoric experience. If arcane magic is an addiction, fel magic is the embodiment of the drug in its purest form. Since the Burning Legion returned to Azeroth, the world's heroes have encountered fel weapons and fel magic with increasing frequency. As demon cults continue to fester and grow in Desolace, the Ashenvale Forest and other remote corners, gruesome sacrifices are held to entice demons into giving their blood in trade. The cultists use this blood to enchant the weapons that they hope will bring about their masters' ultimate victory.

When the demons brought death and damnation to Azeroth, they also carried their own brand of magic to the world. Fel magic is pure, evil and arcane, and it resides in the blood of demons. This blood has magical properties; it addicts arcane magic users and can be used to create evil weapons. When a weapon is forged in demon blood, it becomes a fel weapon. It glows with a foul, yellow-green fire and deals extra damage to good-aligned opponents. Some arcanists can cast fel spells, perhaps after drinking demon blood.

Going farther into it, it turns out that the blood itself is a drug (perhaps explaining Magtheridon?) similar to Vitae in the White Wolf setting.

So, the question stands: is arcane and fel the same? Or is it a completely different energy?

[Chikt]

So, the question stands: is arcane and fel the same? Or is it a completely different energy?

This sounds something like branches and roots.

Where Fel Magic might be a branch, Arcane Magic is the root. Fel Magic isn't necessarily that far off from the Arcane, even if the people that gain "fel power" drink demon blood. It sounds almost like further corruption of a course. Note they say that "it addicts arcane magic users", which would suggest that maybe to experience the full effects of fel magic, one must first be in tune with the Arcane or some other power. It would actually narrow the separation between Shaman and Mages if both could become Warlocks (or start down the path of becoming one) through the drinking of demon blood. Different sources sparking the same fire, as a matter of speaking.

[Fallacy]

Actually, they aren't really related except in how they are put to use. All the magic of Azeroth is powered by the ley lines given off by the Well of Eternity, whereas fel energy comes from the Twisting Nether and demons themselves. Divine magic (that used by shaman, druids, and priests) comes from their respected place or worship, and aren't utilized in the same way, but more like asked of from the source than simply taken energy.

[Chikt]

Actually, they aren't really related except in how they are put to use. All the magic of Azeroth is powered by the ley lines given off by the Well of Eternity, whereas fel energy comes from the Twisting Nether and demons themselves. Divine magic (that used by shaman, druids, and priests) comes from their respected place or worship, and aren't utilized in the same way, but more like asked of from the source than simply taken energy.

I'm well aware of how Shaman 'magic' works, yes. I was merely commenting on how-if both Shaman and Mages can become Warlocks-there would not be as much technical separation between them as I personally suspected.

Though I honestly wonder if-currently-Warlocks are even created but not just 'born' as a matter of speaking. No more having to go through being a Mage, Ahaman or otherwise to become a Warlock-you just are one through training. I'd assume drinking demon blood-no matter WHO you were-might have that effect. But given the nature of Fel Energy, it leaves a lot of room to interpretation as to how a Warlock might come to be.

[Anthek]

I'm well aware of how Shaman 'magic' works, yes. I was merely commenting on how-if both Shaman and Mages can become Warlocks-there would not be as much technical separation between them as I personally suspected.

Though I honestly wonder if-currently-Warlocks are even created but not just 'born' as a matter of speaking. No more having to go through being a Mage, Ahaman or otherwise to become a Warlock-you just are one through training. I'd assume drinking demon blood-no matter WHO you were-might have that effect. But given the nature of Fel Energy, it leaves a lot of room to interpretation as to how a Warlock might come to be.

The situation with the orcs as their corruption by Kil'Jaeden was beginning didn't really have much to do with how the shamans turned to warlocks, but because they really didn't have much other purpose. Other orcs were well known for being great hunters or fighters, but shamans spent most of their years relying on the spirits and elements for their strength, and spellcasting was all that was they had known. I can't say that it came to them naturally or not, but the process was definately accelerated by them having Kil'Jaeden teaching them through Gul'dan's dreams.

Not all people who drink demon blood gain the power to cast fel magic, as shown by the orcs. It certainly changed and corrupted them, but warlocks had already existed at the time (at that point, only Shattrath still stood for the Draenei), and had no impact on their numbers.

EDIT: I fail at changing characters.

[Naheal]

The situation with the orcs as their corruption by Kil'Jaeden was beginning didn't really have much to do with how the shamans turned to warlocks, but because they really didn't have much other purpose. Other orcs were well known for being great hunters or fighters, but shamans spent most of their years relying on the spirits and elements for their strength, and spellcasting was all that was they had known. I can't say that it came to them naturally or not, but the process was definately accelerated by them having Kil'Jaeden teaching them through Gul'dan's dreams.

Not all people who drink demon blood gain the power to cast fel magic, as shown by the orcs. It certainly changed and corrupted them, but warlocks had already existed at the time (at that point, only Shattrath still stood for the Draenei), and had no impact on their numbers.


While you are correct, Arcane magic also seems to be a bit of a "gift," though one from a different form and, in this case, coming from the titans themselves.

Thinking logically (I have no lore backup, this is sheer speculation from observation) I'd think that demon blood would enhance and warp what already exists. In the case of the orcs, it warps their summoning and channeling of spirits (a shamanistic trait) to one of summoning and controlling demons (a warlock trait) and, logically, would explain just why their abilities with demons are enhanced so much.

The difference between that and a mage doing the same would be the application. A mage, RP wise, would likely be affliction or destro, using game mechanics, as summoning things really aren't one of the strengths of a mage.

That said, would a priest taking in demonic blood be likely to become a necromancer? Or a Paladin taking in demonic blood be likely to become a Death Knight?

[Fallacy]

While you are correct, Arcane magic also seems to be a bit of a "gift," though one from a different form and, in this case, coming from the titans themselves.

Thinking logically (I have no lore backup, this is sheer speculation from observation) I'd think that demon blood would enhance and warp what already exists. In the case of the orcs, it warps their summoning and channeling of spirits (a shamanistic trait) to one of summoning and controlling demons (a warlock trait) and, logically, would explain just why their abilities with demons are enhanced so much.

The difference between that and a mage doing the same would be the application. A mage, RP wise, would likely be affliction or destro, using game mechanics, as summoning things really aren't one of the strengths of a mage.

That said, would a priest taking in demonic blood be likely to become a necromancer? Or a Paladin taking in demonic blood be likely to become a Death Knight?

There's no real relation, though, or at least, one that can be shown or proven. Not all users of arcane magic know of or acknowledge the Titans, and the ones that are closest to them (the dwarves) have no or little magical affiliation at all, except for priests and paladins, but we know their power comes from the Light. The orc shamans didn't have their powers corrupted by demon blood (as I mentioned, they developed the technique before any of them had consumed Mannoroth's blood), rather, their connections to the spirits were cut off or refused because of what they were using it for.

As for the last part, necromancers and death knights weren't established in that way. Most human necromancers were once mages of the Kirin Tor, and Gul'dan's death knights were created by transferring the souls of warlocks in the bodies of dead paladins, while Ner'zhul's are more of just living paladins having devoted themselves to the Lich King and through the use of a rune blade.

[Abric]

Fel magic and arcane magic are the same thing - it's just the source it's coming from. Look at the drug reference: arcane magic is the opium of the magical enviornment... but fel magic is the heroin (for those non-drug experts, heroin is made from opium.)

Remember to, *demons* aren't necessarily demons in a DnD sense... but just a classification of corrupted beings. I believe most, if not all, of the Burning Legion as we know it in game are corrupted forms of races touched by Sargeras' Burning Crusade. There were things that went bump in the night prior to that, but I don't think we've actually established WHAT those specifically are. Except the Old Gods, and we see how hardcore those are... at least compared to the little baby fel hounds.

[Naheal]

Remember to, *demons* aren't necessarily demons in a DnD sense... but just a classification of corrupted beings.

Depending on the setting, "demons" are simply fallen celestials who were corrupted by the abyss. This is nothing new to me, though I tend to warp the viewpoint a bit. (What can I say? I love a healthy supply of grey area!)

That said, I do understand where you're coming from.


Not all users of arcane magic know of or acknowledge the Titans, and the ones that are closest to them (the dwarves) have no or little magical affiliation at all, except for priests and paladins

Not entirely correct. While it's true that a great deal of the dwarves do not use arcane magic, the Dark Iron Dwarves are actually known to learn how to use the arcane.

I believe you may have confused the Ironforge Clan for the entirety of the dwarven race (a common mistake, actually).

The Dark Iron, though, in typical mannor (refer to the four laws), fell to the corruption of the arcane.

[Qabian]

Man'ari eredar are pretty demonic, but not originally demons: see draenei eredar. Satyr are pretty demonic, but not originally demons: see kaldorei. I don't know all that much about other demons, but how many could you honestly say for sure weren't originally something else? Sargeras keeps busy. Draenei can use arcane magic, but they don't have warlocks. When they do, you end up with Sironas and man'ari all over again.

The differentiation I personally make between arcane and fel magic is the Well of Eternity. And for Qabian, to take the step from arcane to fel is to admit defeat and subjugate yourself and your own inherent manifestation of that original power from the birth of the world to others, i.e. the Legion.

I don't doubt that the distinction between arcane and fel is in its use and who exactly it is connected to. The Highborne used the Legion to try and get more power, but they didn't truly embrace the demonic. I don't think anyone points to the Naga as fel beings (although credit for Azshara's transformation and corruption does go to Sargeras). The Satyr were those who embraced the Legion and everything about it and became fel beings. Power is power. Yes, there are distinctions within the use of power, but no matter how you use it, the more you do and the better you get at it, the more it corrupts: see Medivh, Illidan, Kel'thuzad, Kael'thas, just about anybody, all originally "arcane" focused. Just look at what Solarian's wearing.

Edit: What really interests me is those who are powerful but have yet to be corrupted, or at least aren't well connected with the Legion, characters like Aegwynn, Khadgar, Jaina, maybe Velen? Are their self-imposed limitations and pretences at humility really enough to keep them from the ultimate fate of the truly powerful?

[Maegannon]

As far as we've been told, Velan sticks with Light energy simply because the Arcane is just to addictive and tempting to be toyed with. He saw what that kind of power did to his best friend, Kil'Jaden, and to those members of the Eredarii society that chose the legion's path. Bad times.

Technicality Aegwynn -was- corrupted, at least in a manor of speaking, because she refused to give up her powers, instead choosing to transfer them to Midivh upon birth.. whom for all technical reasoning was Sargeras in human form.

Jaina probably isn't safe from it either, but She knows just how easily someone can fall to the darkness, she watched Arthas and her own Father do it, and neither of them were arcane wielders. Like Khadgar, who actually was a teacher of hers, she's smart enough not to mess with darker magics, no matter how desperate she might get.


As for Fel vrs Arcane.. All magic is Arcane magic. Fel, Elemental, Arcane, Shadow.. all arcane in nature.

The only kind of "magic" that isn't, is Divine Magic, which is gifted through worship of a deity of some kind. The Light magic priests and paladins use (and by association, the shadow magic priests are able to use) is a direct gift from "The Sorce of the Light" or the Titans, or Elune, or The Troll Loa or .. you get the point. It works very simmilar with Nature healing spells for druids and shaman as well.. Be it a gift from Cenarius or the Earth Mother, or the Elements... it was magic asked for, and granted.

Which is what annoys me about Blood Knights.. they aren't given divine magic from their deity of worship (the sun god), they're stealing it from a Naruu, a creature made from that energy.. they shouldn't be as strong as regular Paladins, because they're stealing and abusing a lesser form of the same type of power gifted freely to Paladins for their devotion to the light.

[Fallacy]

Not entirely correct. While it's true that a great deal of the dwarves do not use arcane magic, the Dark Iron Dwarves are actually known to learn how to use the arcane.

I believe you may have confused the Ironforge Clan for the entirety of the dwarven race (a common mistake, actually).

The Dark Iron, though, in typical mannor (refer to the four laws), fell to the corruption of the arcane.

The Dark Iron use magics given and taught to them by the Twilight Hammer and Ragnaros, not because of the Titans (really, more of the opposite), which does not make it arcane. The magic of the Old Gods is more akin to fel magic, although there's too little known about it to make a greater distinction.

[Fallacy]

Man'ari eredar are pretty demonic, but not originally demons: see draenei eredar. Satyr are pretty demonic, but not originally demons: see kaldorei. I don't know all that much about other demons, but how many could you honestly say for sure weren't originally something else? Sargeras keeps busy. Draenei can use arcane magic, but they don't have warlocks. When they do, you end up with Sironas and man'ari all over again.

The only known race that remained pretty much the same since being inducted into the Burning Legion would be the Nathrezim, being one of the races Sargeras defeated and banished before his fall.


The differentiation I personally make between arcane and fel magic is the Well of Eternity. And for Qabian, to take the step from arcane to fel is to admit defeat and subjugate yourself and your own inherent manifestation of that original power from the birth of the world to others, i.e. the Legion.

It's pretty much the big one, and makes Azeroth rather unique, which is why it draws the Legion's attention so (They've tried four times in the past 10,000 years to destroy it and failed each attempt).


I don't doubt that the distinction between arcane and fel is in its use and who exactly it is connected to. The Highborne used the Legion to try and get more power, but they didn't truly embrace the demonic. I don't think anyone points to the Naga as fel beings (although credit for Azshara's transformation and corruption does go to Sargeras). The Satyr were those who embraced the Legion and everything about it and became fel beings. Power is power. Yes, there are distinctions within the use of power, but no matter how you use it, the more you do and the better you get at it, the more it corrupts: see Medivh, Illidan, Kel'thuzad, Kael'thas, just about anybody, all originally "arcane" focused. Just look at what Solarian's wearing.

I wouldn't really count Medivh in that, since Sargeras was waiting inside in his body since before he was born, and he had no control over that. The naga's transformation was actually caused by one of the Old Gods and possibly Neptulon.


Edit: What really interests me is those who are powerful but have yet to be corrupted, or at least aren't well connected with the Legion, characters like Aegwynn, Khadgar, Jaina, maybe Velen? Are their self-imposed limitations and pretences at humility really enough to keep them from the ultimate fate of the truly powerful?

Aegwynn's given up most of her power (she's still incredibly strong in her own right, having been able to resurrect Medivh), no longer being a Guardian. Plus, she killed Sargeras, so I doubt he'd be satisfied with anything less than tearing her to pieces, even though he tried to get back at her by possessing Medivh. Khadgar and Jaina are powerful mages, sure, but there's little that sets them apart from others, possibly like Rhonin. Velen's been using magic for more than 20,000 years, so I doubt he has to worry about much after that long.

[Fallacy]

As far as we've been told, Velan sticks with Light energy simply because the Arcane is just to addictive and tempting to be toyed with. He saw what that kind of power did to his best friend, Kil'Jaden, and to those members of the Eredarii society that chose the legion's path. Bad times.

No, Velen uses just about every single aspect of magic, besides fel (fight him in game, he uses Smite, some fire spell and Arcane Blast).


Technicality Aegwynn -was- corrupted, at least in a manor of speaking, because she refused to give up her powers, instead choosing to transfer them to Midivh upon birth.. whom for all technical reasoning was Sargeras in human form.

It was actually the Order of Tirisfal that had been corrupted, which was why Aegwynn refused to give up the power of the Guardian to anyone but of her choosing. Medivh did recieve the power when he was born, but it remained latent until he was a teenager and was sent into a coma that awoke both the power and Sargeras within him.


As for Fel vrs Arcane.. All magic is Arcane magic. Fel, Elemental, Arcane, Shadow.. all arcane in nature.

No, that's the distinction we're making here, it's not all the same.


Which is what annoys me about Blood Knights.. they aren't given divine magic from their deity of worship (the sun god), they're stealing it from a Naruu, a creature made from that energy.. they shouldn't be as strong as regular Paladins, because they're stealing and abusing a lesser form of the same type of power gifted freely to Paladins for their devotion to the light.

Why would it be lesser? The Naaru would certainly be more powerful than any paladin in terms of using the Light, but we don't know to what extent, so it may be that taking that piece is more than enough to make them just as powerful as any other.

[Naheal]

Which is what annoys me about Blood Knights.. they aren't given divine magic from their deity of worship (the sun god), they're stealing it from a Naruu, a creature made from that energy.. they shouldn't be as strong as regular Paladins, because they're stealing and abusing a lesser form of the same type of power gifted freely to Paladins for their devotion to the light.

Actually, I'm not entirely certain that the Knights get really anything other than the illusion of control from the Naaru.

From various in-game events, I'm beginning to think that, no matter the situation, the light would still exist within the Knights themselves and, due to the nature of the light, they could easily be able to wield the Light without the assistance of the Naaru underneath SMC.

One thing to remember about the Knights is that while they are corrupt (either a case of the Arcane corrupting them or a simple mannor of their power going to their head), they are still sworn to defend their people at all costs.