The " Noble" Blood Knight? Not according to Lore...

[Skafloc]

While doing research in support of my contributions to Leoren's Trial story I came across an interesting paragraph in the Wowwikki Lore sections dealing with Blood Elves.

This I found just too ironic and interesting to ignore so I am posting the paragraph here.


Most blood elves are not insane or evil - they just choose to fight fire with fire. They were suffering for lack of the Sunwell; they all needed -- and still need -- to feed on arcane energies, even though most of them aren't spellcasters. The most powerful blood elf spellcasters are insane, as the magic they wield is corrupting. On the other hand, the Farstriders, using little magic, are considered to be the epitome of selfless dedication, and are called valiant, honorable and noble on the official site.

The entire article can be viewed here. (http://www.wowwiki.com/Blood_Elf)

Also of note..:


As a result, blood elves are fierce jingoists, believing that the only people they can truly trust are their own. They are perceived as reckless and haughty, exhibiting none of the serenity or calm judgment of their ancestral peoples, and jumping at opportunity and quick solutions with little regard for the consequences. They believe power is not something to be earned -- it is to be taken. Power is something to be manipulated for yourself and the greater good of all blood elves. This reasoning also plays into how the blood elves successfully drained pure Light energy from the naaru to become Blood Knights, and paying no interest to the Paladin credos of benevolence or balance with the universe (although regular paladins can unknowingly be corrupt) .

Now I am certain that would be considered a generalization and folk can of course play their Blood Knight however they wish, but I find it interesting how few are in fact following this logic. Dracovisca comes the closest I think, or maybe Villayna. Most Blood Knights in fact would be rather similar to Champion Vraneshj in their arrogance and haughtiness, if not borderline insane from the powers they are feeding off of to satisfy their addictions.

Conversely the Farstriders and ironically the Rogues would be the more stable and noble classes as they make the least use of the magics the others savor so much.

Mages would have it worst. Qabian is bang on I think.

Discuss.

[Keraph]

Jingoist...funny word.

And I'm not quite following about the Draco thing. He strongly dislikes the way things are going in Sin'dorei society. Am I mistaking your meaning?

[Skafloc]

Jingoist...funny word.

And I'm not quite following about the Draco thing. He strongly dislikes the way things are going in Sin'dorei society. Am I mistaking your meaning?

Yes he does, but his stability is in question from what I gather from his posts and my admittedly limited interactions with him in game. Villayna may be a better example of what the lore at least considers what the norm would be for the Blood Knight.

Of course there would be abberations. Leoren for example would be such one. Maybe thats why he is on trial.

Its just that I have seen several mentions in that particular story of the "nobility and honor" of the Blood Knights, when in fact they would share little of that sentiment with their Alliance counterparts. Of course from their point of view it might be different....

[Keraph]

It's all about viewpoint, I imagine. In order to come to terms with the act they are commiting by stealing the Light from the Naaru, there is a good chance many are trying to rationalize the Blood Knight agenda as noble or honorable, as while there is no doubt that those who originally formed the Blood Knights adhere to the description you gave, many still cling more to their honorable nature prior to the disaster at the Sunwell. The epic mount quest where you ae instructed to burn down a Church of the Light should make it pretty darn clear the true nature of the Blood Knights, but many are blind to that nature either by being too committed to their idea of what the Knights are, or by intentionally turning a blind eye to anything that would break that idea.

[Skafloc]

(although regular paladins can unknowingly be corrupt)

So what you are saying is the corollary works for the Sin'Dorei Blood Knights, that they may unwittingly be noble? :D

[Keraph]

Exactly! Sorta....wait, no. That's not it!

[Skallagar]

For the original post, Thats about how I'd see the Blood Knights. I think the difference is most people, when they roll something with 'knight' in it, want to be the noble, chivalrous knights of history. I myself considered it a few times, but after a few failed experiments i realized that a knight is too...civilized for my tastes.

Why the Blood Knight over the Paladin, though? Well, to me it seemed much more cool to be on Horde cause...well...its Horde. And Silvermoon City looked awesome. And I hated Gnomes too much to join the Alliance.

[Xiphus]

I don't exactly hate gnomes. However, I like undead too much to leave the Horde. Undead rogues have alot of potential for roleplaying PsyOps, Black Ops, Special Ops and other forms of unconventional warfare, especially when it comes to breaking enemy morale.

In regards to the Blood Knights, I always thought of them as a bunch of self-righteous pompous cynical pricks. Nothing close to similar to the traditional paladins. Always thinking for themselves and act all arrogant because apparently, draining a Naaru is a great accomplishment or something. So in character-wise, while Xiphus is not very comfortable around so-called honorable people (due to his very differing values and philosophies), he is much more comfortable around blood elves, coming to appreciate their values and philosophies, and yet, find their self-righteousness repulsive. However, honorable Blood Knights like Leoren serves as objects of curiosities to him.

[Naheal]

In Draco's defense, he seems paranoid for a good reason. I mean, he's leading a group who's sole purpose is to ursurp the leader of their own race in an effort to stick someone a bit more stable/trustworthy in that position.

Considering just how heavy handed the Knights and the rest of the Blood Elves tend to be, wouldn't you be a little paranoid?

[Skallagar]

I can't really blame any elf for being psychotic, really. Going from a race allied with the pretties to allied with the uglies? Then the cool standard goes completely upside down. First you have plain old humans to vie with, but now you have Orcs and Trolls and what not. Not to mention the race history.

[Xiphus]

In Draco's defense, he seems paranoid for a good reason. I mean, he's leading a group who's sole purpose is to ursurp the leader of their own race in an effort to stick someone a bit more stable/trustworthy in that position.

Considering just how heavy handed the Knights and the rest of the Blood Elves tend to be, wouldn't you be a little paranoid?

Fortunately, those in leadership position includes a mage and a Farstrider, rather than Blood Knights. I say as long as the Farstriders have their say, the Blood Elven race should still stay in reasonably safe hands.

[Swerto]

I joined teh horde for the undead. As you see 2/3 characters I actually play are undead (Swerto and Kaiin <originally swerto on Destromath>) and the other is a Quel'dorei draining the powers of the light for his own gains. Much like the blood knights, but without the whole sense of "I'm helping my people and fighting the scourge" more along the lines of "I'm using this power until I can find a better power to use" And he is... moving towards the point of insanity.

[Aetheril]

Interesting way of thinking...

I play my Blood Knight as an idealist. Naturally, he believes he's doing the right thing. But at the same time, he's like all other Blood Knights in the sense that he sees the end and does not have any qualms about the means if they work (draining the Naaru was something already in place, so why change it?)

But I see no reason why I should have to play my knight as a pompous jerk. He's certainly prone to a rather power-hungry nature (probably part of the whole magic addiction and fel exposure thing), but at the same time he believes he's obtaining his power to serve the greater good, not just to serve himself.

I mean, I'd assume many blood knights can be played as pompous, but becoming Sin'dorei didn't make the Quel'dorei suddenly become mean pricks. Some joined the knights with good intentions, I'm sure, and would behave as their original good nature would dictate. It's just a path that's steadily corrupting them, because they accepted the draining of the Naaru.

So I'm just playing that by giving my character some behavioral changes from time to time, as a result of that corruption. By and far, though, I think a lot of knights were more idealistic before they steadily degraded into self-serving pricks. Then again, some of them could have been rotten from the start.

But it's just my personal interpretation of lore, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Keraph]

As an aside, I WAS going to play Cerryan as your typical arrogant, self-serving Blood Knight, with all of the expected corruption and other tasty traits. It does fit well with the description given for them. However, I sorta already HAVE a badguy character, and since I'm not really too into alts, and I probably wouldn't be making any more serious characters in the near future, I was convinced to go the 'good' route when I met Draco during one of his 'sermons'.

[l3rokken4ngel]

Rosalynd would be a flat out warrior if she had the choice. She uses whatever magical energy she got from m'uru to curve her mana addiction. She used to be a lot more arrogant and "typical" blood elf.. but time's kinda changed that. She still think she's badass though. ;3 She is very loyal to the order however with the Leoren trials, she's second guessing her position.

Rosa's kinda special.. but everyone knew that already. =P She just wants to kill shit, is that such a band thing? *bats eyelashes*

[Lovely]

Lovely is lucky to be a special case, and not a true Blood Knight. Of course, she can still be corrupted, and has fallen prey to it in the past. She doesn't know many knights that aren't corrupt, although Lovely still naively believes in a noble system.

[Kiaransalius]

I play Kiara as someone that has come to grips with what must be done. She is a caring individual at heart, but she knows that her people must do whatever it takes to survive. So, she used to feel guilty for what she did, but no longer does. The Light is there, take it, use it to benefit the Sin'dorei and the Grim.

She will fight for any horde she can, even if she does not like them, because they are allies and allies are useful. Does she trust them? Nope. She only trusts a select few people. She is proud of what she is, and proud of how she looks. She doesn't give a crap what someone else thinks of her, but she will defend herself if attacked either verbally or physically.

She can be arrogant, especially when angry. And she wants to be powerful, so she can do whatever she must to ensure her people survive.

[Villayna]

*giggles evilly*

[l3rokken4ngel]

I play Kiara as someone that has come to grips with what must be done. She is a caring individual at heart, but she knows that her people must do whatever it takes to survive. So, she used to feel guilty for what she did, but no longer does. The Light is there, take it, use it to benefit the Sin'dorei and the Grim.

She will fight for any horde she can, even if she does not like them, because they are allies and allies are useful. Does she trust them? Nope. She only trusts a select few people. She is proud of what she is, and proud of how she looks. She doesn't give a crap what someone else thinks of her, but she will defend herself if attacked either verbally or physically.

She can be arrogant, especially when angry. And she wants to be powerful, so she can do whatever she must to ensure her people survive.


/agree

Pretty much how Rosa works... anything for the Grim and those whom it protects.

[Malethia]

Malethia's Blood Knight cover personality was someone who demanded discipline and duty above all else. She was cold, power-hungry, and vengeful.

A lie, of course, but while she acted that way none knew differently.

[Melchisedech]

Malethia's Blood Knight cover personality was someone who demanded discipline and duty above all else. She was cold, power-hungry, and vengeful.

A lie, of course, but while she acted that way none knew differently.


Mel liked her better that way. ;)

[Malethia]

Mel liked her better that way. ;)

Most Grim did. But for me, personally, the act gets old after a while. I can only play the villain/jackass character for so long before I need to move on.

I will be blending old and new come the end of this week though. I've let it get a bit too out of hand, so I'm reeling it back in some.

[Melchisedech]

I'll be posting something on the Grim page regarding this phenomenon. To those of you not Grim... screw you!

[Leoren]

I'll be posting something on the Grim page regarding this phenomenon. To those of you not Grim... screw you!

NO U!

[Alana]

/agree
anything for the Grim and those whom it protects.

that's right biatches. we're here for YOUR protection. :-P

seems nobility is in the eye of the beholder. some would call Las evil. i think Las is very honorable in areas that counts. just ruthless and offers no quarter to those she considers enemies. i don't see why 'knights' can't be the same way. yes they might steal the light, yes they my be arrogant asses and kill without prejudice. doesn't mean they aren't doing what's right for their peeps.

Alana however is very.... nice.

[Aquizit]

Needs more demons, imo.


/cast Inferno

[Qabian]

Conversely the Farstriders and ironically the Rogues would be the more stable and noble classes as they make the least use of the magics the others savor so much.

Mages would have it worst. Qabian is bang on I think.

Wait. What am I bang on about? Blood Knights being evil or at least lacking nobility? It's in the quest texts, and they're in the basement. Two Farstriders and a Magister in the Court. Pretty much no NPCs like the Blood Knights. That's more than enough for me.

If you want to be a "Knight" in the traditional literary honorable sense, roll one of those Spellbreaker guards. Or better yet, if you're determined to be Horde, an Orc Warrior.

I actually said Mages have it easier, mostly because of things like Evocation. That's right, I can suck that sweet sweet mana right out of existence itself. It's mine. All mine. Rogues have to, um, not be able to even drink mana potions? Heh. But that's mixing game terms with lore concepts, something I like to do because it's amuses me, even if many times it's just plain broken.

But while the Prince/Kings have been Mages (I assume), I'm also fairly certain the Farstriders and their Ranger-General have had military control. The Blood Knights are waaay too new to have earned any real place of power.

And I admit to not really following Leoren's story any more. It got very unwieldy, and I'm a little weirded out by people attributing things to major NPCs on a massive public scale that aren't authoritative. The creators of those NPCs, or those who might be involved in subsequent storylines, can't really fight back here. I guess if everything "goes back to the way it was" at the end, it'll be all right. And I have other people reading it for me to let me know what happens. :)

[Leoren]

The creators of those NPCs, or those who might be involved in subsequent storylines, can't really fight back here. I guess if everything "goes back to the way it was" at the end, it'll be all right. And I have other people reading it for me to let me know what happens. :)

More than anything that's the reason alot of non player characters were created for the story. They're disposable. So that the plot can live (and potentially die) with them. Liadrin and the big names are more fluff than anything.

[Aetheril]

And I admit to not really following Leoren's story any more. It got very unwieldy, and I'm a little weirded out by people attributing things to major NPCs on a massive public scale that aren't authoritative. The creators of those NPCs, or those who might be involved in subsequent storylines, can't really fight back here. I guess if everything "goes back to the way it was" at the end, it'll be all right. And I have other people reading it for me to let me know what happens. :)

I understand Qabian's point...I really hope it does "go back to the way it was". Otherwise, a massive rebellion and usurpation of the Knights is something that game-mechanics and future rps would directly contradict.

And however charged people get over Leoren's trial, I doubt it's big enough to have a rebellion over. Even as a catalyst it's far-fetched to have so much fuss over one person. Hell, a lot of people won't even care, because he is a Blood Knight. Those who hate the knights to begin with (I'm speaking in terms of civilian NPCs) are likely to simply enjoy watching the knights busy themselves executing each other for once.

But that's just my two cents. It seems like people are gearing up for a massive invasion of Silvermoon...and yet nobody's even making it very clear what sort of fight the Knights will put up. I mean, I really hope people don't make the knight NPCs pushovers, because that seems like it's all just so contrived in order to break Leoren out.

And what about the Farstriders? Would they defend the city against this clearly hostile force, even if it's focusing on the Blood Knights?

Because if the Knights get steamrolled, I can hardly see how this will keep with the stasis of the game. If anything, I would hope the rescuers have a run for their money trying to get him out, and afterwards the knights beef up security and become more ruthless or something like that.

At least, that's what I'd expect.

Or better yet...Leoren is killed by collateral damage in the escape...oh, the irony! Well, that's what these usurpers get, carrying massive packs of explosives around under their robes.

[Leoren]

For what it's worth, I've made insurances keeping in mind these concerns. The plot wasn't this ambitious to start out with, but given the nature of open threads and one thing lead to another, and it exploded into something on a much larger scale.

I thought something like this -might- have happened, and the nature of what's going on 'behind the scenes' so to speak kept this in mind. There's no way Silvermoon in game will ever explode into ruins. No way the city's NPCs will ever be removeable, however much some characters may like. I know this, and without giving away spoilers, the city and its NPCs will all believably fall back into static place as the game mechanics dictate.

That being said, how can the plot then have a lasting feeling of impact? Like anything had changed? Substance? Consequence? That's for every character who got involved to decide. And like I've already said, who said the villains were Liadrin and co? Tagging that status over a character who will only ever stare back at you indifferently in game is just anticlimactic at best. A few of us ( multiple authors, yes ) have spent alot of time giving thought to this. It isn't easy making a plot which people have taken, got involved in and pushed the 'epic' atmosphere within such a stagnant game world ( epic in this context meaning to actually have a wide scale effect ), but we took all of these concerns in mind as we were skeptic about it ourselves. We feel how we would at least -like- the thread to develop reflects this care over the situation, and once reaching completion can be seen.

... None of us saw or planned characters strapping themselves for Jihad, I might add.

P.s. I find it funny how this thread lead into that plot in the first place. More on topic discussion plz.

[l3rokken4ngel]

Well Rosa has been tied to Leoren since she was like what? Level.. 11? lolol.. So ya something like this is gonna have a big effect on her. I didn't realize Leo had so many ties x_X


He be a very popular mans! *nod*


But I beg the question... now I wonder, if a Blood Knight was to sperate themselves from the offical order (still a blood knight, just not answering to the order itself).. they would still have said powers correct? I wanna think I saw something like this in another thread but I wasn't sure how they finally determained the magic part worked. They keep it for forever once they tap it I'm assuming?

[Qabian]

Regular old paladins can have it removed from them a la Tirion, so that's a good question.

[Skafloc]

Wait. What am I bang on about? Blood Knights being evil or at least lacking nobility?

Neither really. I was referring to the way you play your character Qabian and his personality. It would be consistent I think with the sense of authority and power the mages of the Sin'Dorei would probably for the most part all share in due to their major use of the corrupting fel energies that the others use in much lesser degrees. The warlocks followed by the paladins would come next in line I would think.

[Vicailde]

The blood elf Farstriders are a small but highly skilled group of rangers, rogues and assassins. The organization can trace its roots back to the Troll Wars, when a loosely affiliated band of high elf warriors occasionally worked together to defend Quel'Thalas. Roughly five hundred years ago, a group of similarly dedicated fighters formed and officially took on the name "Farstriders". Their mandate was to protect Quel'Thalas far beyond its actual borders and look after high elf interests all over Azeroth. The commander of the Farstriders was given a unique title: Ranger-General of Silvermoon.

Vicailde was originally part of the Farstriders, the Bloodstone family being skilled swordsmen. He adapted the Blood Knight way in order to improve his skill with the sword, nothing more, nothing less.

[Qabian]

Neither really. I was referring to the way you play your character Qabian and his personality. It would be consistent I think with the sense of authority and power the mages of the Sin'Dorei would probably for the most part all share in due to their major use of the corrupting fel energies that the others use in much lesser degrees. The warlocks followed by the paladins would come next in line I would think.

Ohhh. /flex Heh.

[Visca]

In response to Draco vs the norm:

He WAS a Blood Knight. Founding member, actually. He followed orders. That isn’t to say that he liked them, far from it… but he thought he was protecting his people… He actually overlooked a lot in hopes he was doing the right thing. He’s the last of his family, a family sworn to protect the people. That is a major duty. So when he found out what was going on in Outland, he got angry. He was lied to, he tried to tell the Blood Knights, that and tried to find a way to reconnect with the light, and he was laughed at and mocked. “Crazy Visca.”

So Draco started the Order, in defense of his people… he joined the cause of the Scryers as well… Yes he’s overly cautious, possibly even slightly paranoid… but he is rebelling against the Magisters, who have mind controlled people to alter their thoughts. Why has Draco been able to get away with things then? He’s been slandered so much that the citizens think he’s nuts. Draco knows combat, so they don’t want to start something that will end in Bloodshed. They’ve even rewritten what the Visca family has done to discredit him.

So Draco still uses the stolen Light of the Naaru, but he’s looking for a way to reconnect to the Holy Light. He knows he has sinned, but he tries to fix it. He knows his people are self-destructive, so he’s trying to give them Salvation.

I hope this clears some things up?

[Islefr]

....*shelves Obilex* Sweet mother of Jebas we have too many blood knights on here. I'm going to go play my Orc shaman for a while.

[Vicailde]

No such thing as too many blood knights!

*throws more bloodadins at the horde*

[Islefr]

Oh there's a limit to them, and I'm fairly sure we're reaching that limit about 5 of them ago.

Also, mixing your verb tenses is fun

[Vicailde]

Out of the several thousand people who play, I'm sure there is no limit. Especially since there is only one race that can be paladins and paladins are extremely useful. (mm salvation)

[Islefr]

Maybe so, green eyes, maybe so. Either way, I'm going to stop smacking things with my Elf's judgements and start electrocuting and burning them with my Orcish powers instead.

[Daedraug]

There's really nothing preventing you from playing a BE pally who earned his powers the old-fashioned way, either. IIRC the guy who gives out the quest to desecrate Uther's tomb is an OG who learned things from Uther before the betrayal. I doubt he tossed out all his old training when his people were no longer a part of the alliance.

Aha. There's Wowwiki's thoughts:

It is also important to note that not all High Elves, now Blood Elves, have abonded their former ways and become Blood Knights. A very small minority of Blood Elves still follow their former more pure Paladin/Priestly ways

[Leoren]

There's really nothing preventing you from playing a BE pally who earned his powers the old-fashioned way, either. IIRC the guy who gives out the quest to desecrate Uther's tomb is an OG who learned things from Uther before the betrayal. I doubt he tossed out all his old training when his people were no longer a part of the alliance.

Aha. There's Wowwiki's thoughts:

Run before Qabian eats you :3.

[Qabian]

Haha, I don't mind if you do that anymore. I've been schooled in that regard. Technically, they should be few and far between, but honestly, relative to the population at large, so are good roleplayers, so go for it, heh.

I'm just not going to like you IC. And if you try to join the Grim and pretend to be a Silver Hand pally, I will burn you at the stake. That's all. And I do think that if you were a good Silvermoon sin'dorei kiddie, you certainly would toss out all your training with the split from the Alliance, heh. Don't think I'd eat you myself, but certainly wouldn't hesitate to cook you up nicely for a few of the more cannibalistic Grim.

[Aetheril]

Well, considering that the guy wanted to desecrate the tomb and whatnot, I think he did throw out his old training.

Of course, it does prove that High Elf Pallies existed, and if they haven't all rejected their training, the ones who remain true probably went into exile with the alliance, like all other high elves.

[Qabian]

Yep, that's why being sin'dorei and "paladin" is a little weird. It's not impossible, but it's certainly outside the norm.

I do believe that one Argent Dawn guy is sin'dorei and paladin, so it can happen, but I'd say playing sin'dorei paladin and Horde versus sin'dorei paladin and neutral or quel'dorei paladin and Alliance is going to be pretty rough going, or should be pretty rough going. Probably equivalent to being sin'dorei paladin and Alliance. Everyone's going to be suspicious of the way you look versus the philosophy you claim. You should at least be regularly kicked in the shins by most main city NPCs.

[Visca]

Haha agreed. Draco's claiming to be a pally, but he's not there yet. He just seceeded from the Blood Knights... So I know Draco's out of the Norm, but hey... last of a family that was sworn to protect its people then Kael'thas's betrayal? Ofcourse he's not going to follow the norm if he sees it immoral.

And Q, you never have to worry about Draco joining The Grim.

[Qabian]

Technically if he sees it as immoral, shouldn't he have seen it as immoral before he became a Blood Knight? You'd have to be pretty blind to think that locking down a creature of Light and tearing its powers away for your own use puts you on moral high ground, even if you are doing it for "the good of the people". People do immoral things for the good of their people all the time, especially in war.

I'd think it might be pretty rough to convince Silver Hand types to take and train a sin'dorei after they'd taken part in M'uru abuse. Although maybe some Argent Dawn guys would be willing to train one. *shrug*

Even while Kael'thas wasn't directly betraying his people, he was still pretty power hungry as I recall. I don't think he was ever exactly a shining example of piety and altruism. Was he? Yeah, he wanted to help his people survive and overcome their losses, but I doubt the greater good was always at the top of his list of motives, or he wouldn't be where he is today, heh.

[Keraph]

Consider the first words you hear from the leader of the reformed Silver Hand, Tirion Fordring. He talks about how it doesn't matter what race you are, but your actions that define you. I would think he would weigh his own opinion of the matter heavily in his decision to be either Alliance only or open to all who are worthy. Remember, the old Silver Hand is dead and gone, it's members either killed, part of the Scarlet Crusade, or possibly among the Argent Dawn. The values of the old Silver Hand would have nothing to do with the reformed order, especially if it's leader himself disagrees with some of them.

[Qabian]

Tirion being a fan of Eitrigg makes it pretty likely he wouldn't automatically be Alliance exclusive, I'd think, but if it's "your actions that define you", then having previously been a Blood Knight in the usual sense, as per the norm, would probably be a mark against being considered well by someone with moralistic ideals. And Tirion (or anyone) getting to be the be all and end all decider (heh) for a new Silver Hand is a little scary in a powermongering sense.

But generally, my "Silver Hand" comments as descriptors refer to the old Uther-style paladin morality, the kind that took Tirion's power away from him because of his ties with Eitrigg.

[Keraph]

Tirion did manage to use the Light again, of his own accord, to heal Eitrigg, so I wonder whether or not paladins even really have the ability to strip eachother of a power that's only allowing itself to be used, not controlled. I am reminded of a scene in the Sword of Truth series, second or third book, wherein a major character is stripped of her power, only to later discover that she was never really removed from it, but only convinced that she was. Wizard's first rule: People will believe anything that they either want to believe, or fear it being true.

Regardless, I recognize the archetypical "alliance paladin" mindset you are referring to. However, early WotLK content from the trial at Blizzcon reveals Tirion as the "leader" of the Silver Hand. (He himself says nobody can really LEAD the Silver Hand in the way Uther did, but seeing as it does need some sort of unity, he has basically taken the role of highlord, and has been well recieved by other members) That said, there's still a good possibility that a Sin'dorei who wished to atone for his past sins are serve a much more..."good guy"ish cause would have a pretty decent shot at joining Tirion's ranks.

[Qabian]

Makes sense, if Tirion's into pansy wuss qualities like "forgiveness". Bwahahaha!

[Daedraug]

I played a traditional paladin for my short-lived Ravenholdt character (I didn't know it was such a popular idea :P ) but he was more in it for the ability to lord it over 'lesser' Blood Knights who took the 'easy' path.

[Visca]

Technically if he sees it as immoral, shouldn't he have seen it as immoral before he became a Blood Knight? You'd have to be pretty blind to think that locking down a creature of Light and tearing its powers away for your own use puts you on moral high ground, even if you are doing it for "the good of the people". People do immoral things for the good of their people all the time, especially in war.

I'd think it might be pretty rough to convince Silver Hand types to take and train a sin'dorei after they'd taken part in M'uru abuse. Although maybe some Argent Dawn guys would be willing to train one. *shrug*

Even while Kael'thas wasn't directly betraying his people, he was still pretty power hungry as I recall. I don't think he was ever exactly a shining example of piety and altruism. Was he? Yeah, he wanted to help his people survive and overcome their losses, but I doubt the greater good was always at the top of his list of motives, or he wouldn't be where he is today, heh.



Draco overlooked it, believing desperate times caused for desperate measures... But after seeing what Kael's "desperate measures" are... He's decided he cannot turn a blind eye any longer. Also, when one thinks Kael is the savoir the Magisters lead him to be, things are looked on upon a different light.

So now that he knows what is truly going on, he sees the sins as sins... no longer just acts in desperation. Draco was never a paladin of the Silver Hand, he was barely considered an adult when the Invasion happened.

When the Blood Knights were getting formed they asked Draco to join due to his families type of training and their deeds, he signed up to be a "Defender of the Sin'dorei" when they told him how they were getting their Paladin powers, Draco didn't like it... but he thought that it was a nessisary evil in their dark times. But things have changed, and Draco sees the path of distruction that the Sin'dorei are following.

[Rijael]

As a result, blood elves are fierce jingoists, believing that the only people they can truly trust are their own. They are perceived as reckless and haughty, exhibiting none of the serenity or calm judgment of their ancestral peoples, and jumping at opportunity and quick solutions with little regard for the consequences.
Dang. Here I had thought to make Ri'jael an exception to Sin'Dorei culture, and I landed smack-dab in the middle of the official lore stereotype...

[Qabian]

I played a traditional paladin for my short-lived Ravenholdt character (I didn't know it was such a popular idea :P ) but he was more in it for the ability to lord it over 'lesser' Blood Knights who took the 'easy' path.

I'd think most "lesser" Blood Knights would laugh in his face or tell him to go back to Stormwind. I know any Knight of mine would. He could lord it over them morally, perhaps, but to actually try it in the streets of Silvermoon would likely make him an Alliance traitor in the eyes of the average populace.

The easy path, the mage's path, the path of pure unadulterated power!

Wait, isn't that what led the Legion to Azeroth in the first place? Ooooh yes. Mmm, magic.

"I am Blood Knight, mongrel. I do not serve the Light, the Light serves me. If mercy is to be granted, it will be by me. Strike me down, another will rise in my place and the suffering of the Light - of the conquered - will continue uninterrupted. The Light has no choice. It does as it is commanded."

Bad guys kick ass. Poor Thrall. What was he thinking offering to help?


Dang. Here I had thought to make Ri'jael an exception to Sin'Dorei culture, and I landed smack-dab in the middle of the official lore stereotype...

You made an exception to Quel'dorei culture, i.e. a Sin'dorei, heh. Had all that calm judgment, control, and thoughtfulness yanked out from under them, unceremoniously creating a race of xenophobes who realize that stopping to consider the consequences just gets everyone killed.

[Kiaransalius]

"I am Blood Knight, mongrel. I do not serve the Light, the Light serves me. If mercy is to be granted, it will be by me. Strike me down, another will rise in my place and the suffering of the Light - of the conquered - will continue uninterrupted. The Light has no choice. It does as it is commanded."


Kiara officially finds that quote hawt...

[Zuffid]

I personally don't dictate how my characters are played based on the common stereotypes or "accepted" personalities. It's also worth considering that this information came from a Wiki, so a lot of this may just be "commonly accepted theory".

I enjoy making my characters unique by defining attributes that other people wouldn't think to highlight in a character.

[Qabian]

That's when it comes down to personal preference and personal style of play. Nothing wrong with that at all. I have personally been shocked at the sheer lack of those playing what is theoretically "common", but not everyone has had the same experiences I have. I also believe that the base of player characters is not as reflective of "society" in the game as the NPC base. Players can be whatever they want. NPCs and in-game texts make up the static groundwork that players jump from into whatever they want.

I love stereotypes. Although "archetypes" is a slightly less negative variation of the term. Love them. Playing outside of them is difficult and less interesting for me, but playing an archetype while interacting with others who play outside the "norms" on the other hand can be a lot of fun.

[Keraph]

I love stereotypes. Although "archetypes" is a slightly less negative variation of the term. Love them. Playing outside of them is difficult and less interesting for me, but playing an archetype while interacting with others who play outside the "norms" on the other hand can be a lot of fun.

I was once quoted as being very "archetypical" with my characters, prior to Cerryan. Most of my characters (not that I really play most of them regularly) are pretty good examples of their race, with Keraph being a shining example of what I imagine the Forsaken society should be. And even with Cerryan, I might not be playing a very typical Blood Knight, but I'm not exactly bristling with originality in the whole "good guy paladin naive freedom fighter" thing.

[Fhenrir]

... Keraph being a shining example of what I imagine the Forsaken society should be.

...Untalented and poorly equipped? :D

[Sanrin]

You forgot the mention smelly and gross.

[Darkblade]

I typically follow stereotypes. They are there for a reason, after all.

I also often would play humans in D&D type things, since there were just so many more of them wandering the world getting in to trouble than other races.

[Abric]

In the internet community, what is typically not following an archtype becomes cliche. EVERYBODIES father was killed and they ALL swore to avenge him.

ALL Blood Elves are snobby pricks... and the Blood Knights are all righteous goodie goods who don't believe they are draining power from the Naaru, but getting it from the bottom of their hearts.

You are a good storyteller when you take an archtype and make it unique. You are a bit of a lazy storyteller for trying to do something completely different and off the beaten trail. At least in regards to internet gameplay - everything is different when you are on the internets.

If you are a Blood Elf Paladin and you are riding a mount or you have your Blood Knight tabard - then you are a Blood Knight. Why? Because you did the quests. If you really *aren't* a normal Blood Knight, then I want to see you riding the cock.

[Visca]

I don't have Draco wearing the tabard nor riding the warhorse anymore... He claims it freaked and tried to drown him in Feralas. Now he rides a skelly horse as it's as close to what he was familiar with....

Does this work for you?

[Izrail]

My paladin is a former priest who lost her faith in the Light. She resents the Naaru for hoarding the Light and has no qualms with stealing its energy to do what she believes is right. She thinks she personally knows better than the Naaru.

As I sat here trying to put into words what I think about characters who have cliched aspects or are walking stereo- or archetypes, versus characters whose creators have gone out of their way to ensure uniqueness, I realized that when it comes down to it I just don't care. If the character is well-made it doesn't matter which ingredients you used. Sympathetic characters don't depend on a checklist of what to avoid and what to include, they depend on good storytelling or roleplay skills.

[Qabian]

And even with Cerryan, I might not be playing a very typical Blood Knight, but I'm not exactly bristling with originality in the whole "good guy paladin naive freedom fighter" thing.

I'd think after what happened to Silvermoon, the "good guy paladin naive freedom fighter" archetype would be pretty rare for blood elves. You'd have to have been living under a rock while the world was being crumbled up and blown away. Everybody's father was killed. We know who did it even. The Scourge and Arthas. It's the world we're working with. So at that point, I'd consider the particular innocence ideal "outside the norms", but I think a lot of the semantics in this conversation are getting all mixed up, heh.

For humans, it's a little more easy to imagine, especially with their shorter lifespans, but even so, there's been a lot of hell for them as well. Even for dwarves maybe. Draenei, after the hell they've also been through, would probably have good guy freedom fighters, but to be truly naive would be very strange. Maybe it's the naive part that gets to me, heh. How can you really be naive in this insane world of war, especially if you've been around more than ten years? There are certainly ways to make the character sheltered or blind to everything that has gone on, but from most of my characters' perspectives, they will respond with a "You've lost your mind" kind of attitude, I think.

In terms of the roleplaying community and what characters people are choosing to build, no, the "good guy freedom fighter" is not rare. In terms of the world as it exists in Silvermoon, it seems, to me anyway, with the corruption, powermongering, the depression over the loss, the desperation to recover, the only really half-controlled xenophobia, the need to distance themselves from the people they used to be in the quel'dorei, that such a type would be rare there, or at least rarer, and it becomes something outside the standard "expected" list of things.


My paladin is a former priest who lost her faith in the Light. She resents the Naaru for hoarding the Light and has no qualms with stealing its energy to do what she believes is right. She thinks she personally knows better than the Naaru.

= Liadrin

Heh.

But I mean Q = Standard Blood Elf mage who watched Dalaran mess up repeatedly #4827.

Started with a standard box, and built him up from there. He's a lot more than that now, but you can go a lot of places from Standard Character #2933.

So yeah, I think the "noble knight" should technically be a rarity in Silvermoon. The characters who would have had that attitude as high elves and maintained it through to the present would more than likely have ended up in Stormwind or Allerian.

But that does NOT mean that the people who play it are wrong. Nope. They're just representing the rarities. However their character has managed to become what they are, that's how they did it, and I think that's just fine. Yes, Q will call you a lunatic. Whether you are or not? Up to you, not me. :D

[Keraph]

...Untalented and poorly equipped? :D

DUUUUUUUEL.


And to Quab, I was...hesitant to use the word naive in the first place. Cerryan is not new to war, and he fought with everyone during the Scourge attacks. There's of course a special little place in his heart that would like to see retribution of the highest degree exacted. His mindset is that even though our people are going through the hardest of times, there is no excuse for sacrificing our morals and walking down a darker path, even if it is best for our people. I'm not sure if 'naive' is the right word for that, but that's the idea I'm trying to get across

[cortian]

i agree with a lot of what Qabian and Skafloc have said here, but i think it bears repeating.

the scourge massacre, coupled with the imprisonment and siphoning off the naaru, can only really exaggerate the already spiteful, haughty, superior nature of the xenophobic blood elves. now they've a crusade to rally behind.

think of the public rationale and climate here; if you weren't taking up arms, making fast and convenient allies, and even raping a benevolent being of light, then i expect you'd be shunned in a society that's literally 1/10th of what it was. vengeance is a popular course of action. nobility as we're discussing it here, would appear to the Sin'dorei as reckless efforts to achieve vengeance or advance the position and well-being of blood elves as a whole. Add to this the natural vanity and...er...dandiness of the blood elves, and you've got the Blood Knights; with Liadrin a good archetype, Vranesh another, thought they're different. Maybe the quel'dorei were all tea parties and cantrips to sweep the floor, but we're children of the Blood here, people.

i'd honestly consider the Farstriders to be more akin to the classic idea of "noble." but Sin'dorei nobility in general, and Blood Knight nobility more specifically? i think that would look more like flagrant badassery, reckless acts motivated by vainglory or vengeance, and a sincere sense that, really, we're in this alone; all our allies fold on us, so screw them.

that's kinda how i try to play Cort; according to the archetype, but with individual quirks that i could have imagined to have developed. hard life? sure, but no harder than everyone else he knows. he's pissed off, revenge-motivated, and feels even further duped by the Knights, since he's fallen in with the Order, and out of the knights.

[Elek Quentin]

Yes, Blood Knights are evil, corrupt bastards, each and every one. If you wear the tabard, if you have the mount, then yes, as Abric said, you are NOT a paladin, but a Blood Knight indeed.

But what of Elek?

Non-human (and non-dwarven) Paladins existed. Certainly rare, but they did exist. The training, devotion and mental/societal conditioning that it takes to actually become a paladin is not something I feel can be easily forgotten. Is Elek a "good guy"? No, not really. Now, he does hold onto a few of his old ideals. Mainly his integrity, preference towards actual 'justice' and a bit of a chivalrous flair when dealing with women. Why? - he was a Paladin far, far longer than he's been a Blood Knight.

More and more though, he is slipping away from these as his perceptions of "honorable" become more twisted. Each day he finds new ways to justify to himself the changes he is coming to accept. Some of the things he has done recently would have certainly had him immediately excommunicated from any holy order, and while he may feel guilt for a time because of it, it only lasts until he can convince himself of the "validity" and "necessity."

"The ends shall justify the means. "

I've not decided how long I'm going to have him cling on to the fragments of his past. For now, I will continue in letting a little more go each time, a gradual change that may or may not be noticed by those around him.

Vengeance they say, is a dangerous road. To Elek... it's just a "tool," much like the captured naaru. Murder, theft, rape, opportunity... slowly they all become simply different ways to get from Point A to Point B.

[Tarlithion]

In the internet community, what is typically not following an archtype becomes cliche. EVERYBODIES father was killed and they ALL swore to avenge him.



"My father was killed fighting the Scourge."

"Really? My father was killed when Arthas invaded!"

"Mine too!"

"They killed our dads! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uORAyORWRAA)"

[Xiphus]

"My father was killed fighting the Scourge."

"Really? My father was killed when Arthas invaded!"

"Mine too!"

"They killed our dads! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uORAyORWRAA)"

"I betrayed my own father to the Thought Police!"

But yeah, judging by the amount of crap that has been piled up on the inhabitants of Azeroth, I can really imagine how many fathers must had died. I think there's that chance that entire communities be wiped out entirely just like in that sad sad town to the south of the Eastern Plaguelands.

[Swerto]

In the internet community, what is typically not following an archtype becomes cliche. EVERYBODIES father was killed and they ALL swore to avenge him.

ALL Blood Elves are snobby pricks... and the Blood Knights are all righteous goodie goods who don't believe they are draining power from the Naaru, but getting it from the bottom of their hearts.

You are a good storyteller when you take an archtype and make it unique. You are a bit of a lazy storyteller for trying to do something completely different and off the beaten trail. At least in regards to internet gameplay - everything is different when you are on the internets.

If you are a Blood Elf Paladin and you are riding a mount or you have your Blood Knight tabard - then you are a Blood Knight. Why? Because you did the quests. If you really *aren't* a normal Blood Knight, then I want to see you riding the cock.




Securo isn't a blood knight, he won't be wearing tabard, and when I finish getting the last 1/2 way to exalted I'm going to be riding a horse.

[Qabian]

"My father was killed fighting the Scourge."

"Really? My father was killed when Arthas invaded!"

"Mine too!"

"They killed our dads! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uORAyORWRAA)"

It's the truth! Brilliant!

[Saphiara]

Well, having the advantage of starting on this server at level 70, I get to play with my background since I don't have to level up with it.

Saphiara was with the Sunfury army in Outland, and was one of those whom the Blood Knight process was tested on. She deserted the Sunfury when she learned of the prince's new alliance, and fought her way back home to Silvermoon.

And yes, her mammy and pappy were killed...but by the Sunfury, not by the Scourge. So it's a bit different..

Saphiara is still a soldier, and now she has no army to serve. All she has left is revenge, on the Sunfury, on the Scourge, and on the Alliance. She doesn't mind killing anyone else in her way while she's at it. Philosophical debates can be saved for when everybody else is dead.

And yes, she is Retribution spec.

EDIT: Dehtukerjaubs!

[Xaraphyne]

If you are a Blood Elf Paladin and you are riding a mount or you have your Blood Knight tabard - then you are a Blood Knight. Why? Because you did the quests. If you really *aren't* a normal Blood Knight, then I want to see you riding the cock.

I have to disagree there. Just because my character literally completed the quest doesn't I have to have it be canon. Have you integrated every single thing you've done in game into your character's history? Is there nothing your toon has or does that doesn't actually match what you have in mind? Kinda sucks for all those folks who are playing Quel'dorei then. Nevermind all the blood elf quests they must have completed, their toon doesn't even have the right color eyes.

Yeah... Filly has a charger, but she's no blood knight. She's not even a paladin either. She just fights like one and gets her power from the same place.

[Xiphus]

I have to disagree there. Just because my character literally completed the quest doesn't I have to have it be canon. Have you integrated every single thing you've done in game into your character's history? Is there nothing your toon has or does that doesn't actually match what you have in mind? Kinda sucks for all those folks who are playing Quel'dorei then. Nevermind all the blood elf quests they must have completed, their toon doesn't even have the right color eyes.

Yeah... Filly has a charger, but she's no blood knight. She's not even a paladin either. She just fights like one and gets her power from the same place.

Everything Xiphus has ever done becomes part of his history, no matter how illegal, how amoral and how controversial his work has been. He is a rogue, so obviously, it is fine for him to do all sorts of shady work. This is because I RP all the time and I never stray out of character in direct contact with others. Yes, he is there in the Steamvaults. He is involved in all the heroism in Auchidoun, he has done a great deal of heroic acts, though he is, in nature, an amoral character. I don't mind that really. The excuse of 'getting paid' or 'I heard rumors that certain so and so is here so I'm here to investigate' or 'Out of curiosity' or 'There's something I am interested in acquiring' works pretty well. Also, due to his preference to keep everything under low profile, nobody other than his employers and those whom he worked with would ever be aware that he is involved in all those.

As for the so-called non-paladin or Blood Knight Sin'dorei, how do you explain how they wield the powers of the Light in such a manner? Only priests or paladins and Blood Knights could wield it. I doubt any non-paladin would be allowed to get in contact with the Naaru in the first place. The most your character can be is an ex-paladin or Blood Knight, kind of like Tirion Fordring before he decided to go and reboot the Order of the Silver Hand again.

[Darkblade]

Kinda sucks for all those folks who are playing Quel'dorei then. Nevermind all the blood elf quests they must have completed, their toon doesn't even have the right color eyes.

Yeah... Filly has a charger, but she's no blood knight. She's not even a paladin either. She just fights like one and gets her power from the same place.

Funny, when I look at the screens to create a character, quel'dorei isn't one of the choices. Neither is "kinda of paladin like, but totally isn't, lawl".

Of course, this is the same argument that I gave back when every troll character was from some other clan than the Darkspear. All troll characters are darkspear, all pink elf characters are sin'dorei.

Anyone playing a quel'dorei would be kill-on-sight to the horde. We're playing Blizzard's game, and until they allow us to do something "out of the norm", there's no mechanics to support it. Which means when you tell me that you're half dragon half sin'dorei raised by your kel'dorei/tauren parents in Teldrassil (being only 5ish years old, of course), I will in-characterly roll my eyes at yet another insane person spouting gibberish.

[Xiphus]

Funny, when I look at the screens to create a character, quel'dorei isn't one of the choices. Neither is "kinda of paladin like, but totally isn't, lawl".

Of course, this is the same argument that I gave back when every troll character was from some other clan than the Darkspear. All troll characters are darkspear, all pink elf characters are sin'dorei.

Anyone playing a sin'dorei would be kill-on-sight to the horde. We're playing Blizzard's game, and until they allow us to do something "out of the norm", there's no mechanics to support it. Which means when you tell me that you're half dragon half sin'dorei raised by your kel'dorei/tauren parents in Teldrassil (being only 5ish years old, of course), I will in-characterly roll my eyes at yet another insane person spouting gibberish.

I prefer to just roleplay a true blue contracted Deathstalker than anything extraordinary. It is better to let someone else decide if my character is uber awesome or doubleplusungood. After all, in real life, heroes are just ordinary people who had performed recognized extraordinary acts, so thus, I shall apply the same logic and make Xiphus your everyday self-centered Forsaken rogue with a criminal history, which sounds normal enough. His deeds, actions, words and philosophies will be the ones to be judged.

[Qabian]

Anyone playing a sin'dorei would be kill-on-sight to the horde. We're playing Blizzard's game, and until they allow us to do something "out of the norm", there's no mechanics to support it. Which means when you tell me that you're half dragon half sin'dorei raised by your kel'dorei/tauren parents in Teldrassil (being only 5ish years old, of course), I will in-characterly roll my eyes at yet another insane person spouting gibberish.

Think you mean quel'dorei in that first sentence, ehheh.

And yeah, that's what I used to go with.

I've calmed down a bit, though, for the sake of fun, 'cause you know, fun is why I'm here, right? Somehow squashing other peoples' fun, as incredibly great as it would be IC, just isn't as entertaining OOC.

I do still IC-ly roll my eyes and outright tell them they're completely insane, but it's IC, and I can work with that.

[Darkblade]

Think you mean quel'dorei in that first sentence, ehheh.
Fixed. ;)
I get my pink fleshlings confused sometimes.

[nothus]

My belf paladin use to be Undead. She was the "first" "successful" "prototype?" body that clys used to become alive again. So from Undead Priest to Belf Paladin stealing her power from a naaru. She likes that and tries to tap into it as often as possible. Blood Knight nobility be damned, she still has a thing for jamaryste (and tries to emulate her some what, I know I'm a lazy RPer), so the using of an entity to grant her ever increasing power suits her.

And apparently kalet's 'revival' was so good clys used the same body archetype for lovely (and maybe herself?). Lovely and Kalet had a bit of impromptu rp in silvermoon a few weeks back.

I only skimmed the rest of the posts, but Kalet is basically a forsaken-thinking paladin. She sometimes hates the rest of the horde, but would gladly follow the forsaken/Sylvanas and her race be damned, despises the alliance and will probably pick aldor for her faction just to piss them off whenever she can (not that that would really work, but eh). I can't wait for her to become a 'champion of the naaru' while stealing her power from them. Irony?

[Xiphus]

Think you mean quel'dorei in that first sentence, ehheh.

And yeah, that's what I used to go with.

I've calmed down a bit, though, for the sake of fun, 'cause you know, fun is why I'm here, right? Somehow squashing other peoples' fun, as incredibly great as it would be IC, just isn't as entertaining OOC.

I do still IC-ly roll my eyes and outright tell them they're completely insane, but it's IC, and I can work with that.

If an elf claims to be a Quel'dorei, Xiphus will get really twitchy. Quel'dorei still works for the Alliance according to lore, and if it's Alliance, it's a threat. That means, Xara's pseudo-paladin's gonna get stabbed the moment she turns her back towards Xiphus depending on what she has said beforehand. Give him enough reasons to confirm his suspicion and he or she's gonna be shipped back to the Alliance in a bodybag.

[Keeju]

I know people want to be different with roleplay. It's usually the different characters that stand out, but I always wonder why people don't enjoy playing within the parameters of the game a little bit more.

How the blood elves suck their paladinesque powers from the Na'aru... freaking creepy and freaking fascinating. The quest chains are more informative than any quest chain I've yet taken for my other classes. Why you would want to dumb it down and have them Light wielders by their froofroo perfectness, I don't understand. But then... I have a hard time with IC rogue vampires. I understand the desire to play the character, but don't understand why they are playing World of Warcraft. Lots of awesome WoD MUSHes out there. Go populate.

[Evanthe]

I know people want to be different with roleplay. It's usually the different characters that stand out, but I always wonder why people don't enjoy playing within the parameters of the game a little bit more.



I don't understand this, either. What's funny is that despite peoples' quest to be 'different', the unique characters end up being those closest to the archeotype.

When every BE pally is a paladin instead of a Blood Knight, when every troll is from a tribe other than the Darkspear, when every BE female is curvy (yet, somehow still super attractive, even though the other members of the race are generally thin and the curves are more reminiscent of humans than elves), who stands out? The Blood Knights, the Darkspears, and the skinny chicks.

[Skafloc]

i'd honestly consider the Farstriders to be more akin to the classic idea of "noble." but Sin'dorei nobility in general, and Blood Knight nobility more specifically? i think that would look more like flagrant badassery, reckless acts motivated by vainglory or vengeance, and a sincere sense that, really, we're in this alone; all our allies fold on us, so screw them.

Interesting observation Cort, and actually bang on IMHO.



The Farstriders have long been considered valiant and honorable elves who regarded the law with deep respect and faith. Indeed, they have long been considered the epitome of selfless dedication.

Since the Scourge's bloody rampage through Quel'Thalas, the Farstriders have lost some of their optimism. Even so, they are nobly maintaining their role as protectors of blood elf society. Perhaps due to their ties to the land, these rangers tend to be spiritually, mentally, and physically healthier than many other blood elves.

They see their mission as a broad one: to seek out and eradicate evil. Their primary focus is on Quel'Thalas itself, but they also occasionally venture abroad, carrying out surgical strikes where they feel their efforts will have the greatest effect.

The Farstriders disapprove of the actions of the Blood Knights.

Basically this ties in to the fact that in being hunters and rogues using the least amount of the fel energies to satiate their mana addictions they would actually be the more sensible and mentally stable in general of their kin. The most "Quel'Dorei" like of the Sin'Dorei.

Probably why in part they have been marginalized and are looked down upon by the Blood Knights. ( Follow Vraneshj around Farstrider Square a bit and you will see ). The fact it is perceived or propagated that they failed in defending against the scourge is also to blame I imagine.

As a noble and a Farstrider Skafloc is starting to slowly rediscover his ancestral ties to that organization and is looking at the rest of the Sin'Dorei society with a growing concern for the path they are leading towards.

[Evanthe]

The fact it is perceived or propagated that they failed in defending against the scourge is also to blame I imagine.

This is the main cause behind Ashtyn's dislike of the Farstriders, and rangers in general, and the main reason why she chose to become a Blood Knight. The old classes/methods failed. Time for something new.



As a noble and a Farstrider Skafloc is starting to slowly rediscover his ancestral ties to that organization and is looking at the rest of the Sin'Dorei society with a growing concern for the path they are leading towards.


They see their mission as a broad one: to seek out and eradicate evil.

How does Skaf reconcile this with being engaged to a warlock of all things?

[Skafloc]

How does Skaf reconcile this with being engaged to a warlock of all things?

Well simple really. He doesn't consider her evil. Evil is a subjective term. For him its a matter of whatever is a threat to what he holds precious is evil. Evanthe is precious to him.

Besides she has cute dimples. Dimples pwn all.

[Xaraphyne]

Err, my pally isn't a Quel'dorei. She's just not a Blood Knight and has a charger. Yes, she started out training as a Blood Knight, which is where she learned to draw power from the Naaru; she just quit and has been building on her initial training since then.

But she isn't a half-dragon/half-vampire/half-banshee born in Teldrassil. Way to lump people into stereotypes. Clearly, if you're not playing something from the character creation screen, you're way out there and deserve only derision. Sigh.

Anyway, I believe there are about ten other threads in this forum to argue about Quel'dorei in if people so desire. It's all been said. Suffice it to say here that different people have different opinions on how Quel'dorei should be handled.

[Xiphus]

Err, my pally isn't a Quel'dorei. She's just not a Blood Knight and has a charger. Yes, she started out training as a Blood Knight, which is where she learned to draw power from the Naaru; she just quit and has been building on her initial training since then.

But she isn't a half-dragon/half-vampire/half-banshee born in Teldrassil. Way to lump people into stereotypes. Clearly, if you're not playing something from the character creation screen, you're way out there and deserve only derision. Sigh.

Anyway, I believe there are about ten other threads in this forum to argue about Quel'dorei in if people so desire. It's all been said. Suffice it to say here that different people have different opinions on how Quel'dorei should be handled.

Now that's better. A sin'dorei disillusioned ex-Blood Knight.

[Xaraphyne]

Now that's better. A sin'dorei disillusioned ex-Blood Knight.

My only issue is anyone who would bitch me out for that, and why I said anything to begin with. Yeah, so it's not Blizzard's intention and I'd have to tweak or explain away the gameplay to justify it. I don't think that merits scorn. It's certainly not like playing a half-dragon born in Teldrassil or whatever.

[Qabian]

My only issue is anyone who would bitch me out for that.

Only IC. :D

[Xaraphyne]

Only IC. :D

Totally cool. :D

[Rand_Shea]

I'd think a half-dragon to begin with would be something that only a few people should be allowed to pull off. That's certainly one heck of a bloodline to brag about, after all... I'd hope there'd be an equally fantastic story to go along with it.

Because... what makes your mommy/daddy so special that a dragon would want to mate with them even as just a one time thing?

Also... the birthing. Unless I'm wrong, don't all of them in WoW reproduce by laying eggs? I'd think that right off the bat would make them incompatible with any of the mortal races.

But then again, people don't exactly think about stuff like that in the race to make their character the most 'unique'.

[Chikt]

I'm hoping to push Dio more towards being more Tauren-y and Shaman-y. I never was too happy with him in the respect that he was just -too different- from the usual Shaman and the usual Tauren. Perhaps alike the other Tauren in the way he acted, but not so much in what he outwardly told people he believed.

But I think Blood Elves are different from Tauren in that respect. They have a lot more pre-conceived lore than the Tauren and so there are far stricter 'guidelines' to follow when you roll a Blood Elf. But you can still make adjustments to their character.

If every Blood Elf was like the character creation screen suggested, every Blood Elf save for the Farstriders would be hopped up on Fel Energy looking down their noses at everybody else. Doesn't exactly make for much variety! (Even if that was basically a description of much of the Blood Elf RPers.) However, on the character creation screen, there's not actually a choice to create a Blood Knight. Only a Paladin. So if you stuck to what the Character Creation screen suggested, there'd only be Sin'dorei Paladins running around, rather than Blood Knights. (Yes, yes, Blood Knights and Paladins are basically the same thing. But given the Lore, I'd say they have very different ways of acquiring powers of the light and the way they handled themselves.)

Sometimes it's nice to have a character that breaks the general stereotype. You know, like you see quite often in real life. If everybody created their character the way the Character Creation screen suggested they should act or should be, this would be a very, very boring game for RP.

[Keraph]

I'd think a half-dragon to begin with would be something that only a few people should be allowed to pull off. That's certainly one heck of a bloodline to brag about, after all... I'd hope there'd be an equally fantastic story to go along with it.

Because... what makes your mommy/daddy so special that a dragon would want to mate with them even as just a one time thing?

Also... the birthing. Unless I'm wrong, don't all of them in WoW reproduce by laying eggs? I'd think that right off the bat would make them incompatible with any of the mortal races.

But then again, people don't exactly think about stuff like that in the race to make their character the most 'unique'.

I've known one AMAZING half-dragon player that was able to pull it off without being overpowering or anything like that. It was different yes, but they pulled it off very tactfully. And it actually made sense in the context. But...I don't remember if it was on this server or not.

[Rand_Shea]

If someone can make an interesting character with a compelling story, I can easily overlook the perceived biological aspects of how they were conceived. Dragon biology could very well just change with whatever form they decide to disguise themselves with, after all.

But someone just running around saying they're a half dragon and that they have the power of a God because their mommy was the lover of Nozdormu when he disguised himself as a hot elf dude because she was 'teh prettiest' of them all... uh... no. Dragons, lore wise, view mortal races no matter how pretty or ugly to be worthless as fleas and worthy of being annhilated at worst, or as stupid and naive children who need to watched and guided at best.

Also, lore wise... I'd think the only dragonflight that would think highly enough of mortals and even allow its members to mate with them would be the Bronze dragonflight. Greens I suppose, if they weren't insane, would possibly mate with Nightelves or Tauren druids... Blues possibly with extremely impressive magic users, though given that they all hate the mortal races now due to abuse of magic, any halfbreeds would probably have to be like... several thousand years old. Black ones is the most doubtful and they'd probably opt to just incinerating a mortal before wanting to copulate with it... possibly the same for Reds as well, but I've never really seen one of them in game much less heard any lore other than about their Aspect.

But still, given all that and the fact that mortals are often a hinderance to the dragonflights more than they are a benefit, half-breed dragonkins would be extremely rare and have to be very well thought out for anyone to take seriously. I'd like to see some of the stuff from that roleplayer you mentioned, though that'd be a bit hard I guess since you don't know who they are.

[Darkblade]

Sometimes it's nice to have a character that breaks the general stereotype. You know, like you see quite often in real life. If everybody created their character the way the Character Creation screen suggested they should act or should be, this would be a very, very boring game for RP.

I agree, actually. But when 95% of the player population is that "stereotype-breaker", then it destroys the individuality of that uniqueness.

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. :p

[Qabian]

In the defense of the character creation screen which is limited in itself, there is a note under the paladin description that says "Recently blood elves, too, began wielding these paladin abilities. Yet these elves, having little in common with their counterparts, must bend the Light to their will." So even though the "Blood Knight" terminology isn't used until you get into the game, at which point it is used all over the place, the distinction between blood elf paladins and Alliance paladins is made pretty clear for people who bother to read the blurb, which I can imagine isn't all that many? Heh.

[Chikt]

I agree, actually. But when 95% of the player population is that "stereotype-breaker", then it destroys the individuality of that uniqueness.

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. :p

95% of the population being a Stereotype-breaker? Nnnot in my experience, at least with characters coming here to the TNG. Most Blood Elves I've met stay very true to the stereotype. Others stay very true to the lore while being different in their own way.

I'd rather it that we had a bunch of insensibly unique people rather than a bunch of people that fit the mold absolutely perfectly. *Shrug*

[Aetheril]

It may just be the the unique ones...I dunno, stand out more? Are more prominent, perhaps? Because there certainly are many of those who do fit the mold hanging around.

[Qabian]

As someone who has had to talk to more "knights" than I ever wanted to, heh, the fraction of those I've talked to who work "outside-the-norm" has been extremely high. Extremely. I can count the "normals" on one hand.

But everyone's experiences have been different, as has been noted, and most of the time, others working outside the norm hasn't prevented me from interacting with them.

[Saphiara]

Just remember...canon or not, it could always be worse...

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd133/fgjustice/furry.jpg

[Chikt]

Just remember...canon or not, it could always be worse...

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd133/fgjustice/furry.jpg

My thoughts exactly... SO my thoughts exactly...

Having been on 3 RP servers before Twisting Nether, this is the first server that actually has had realistic characters. I've not met one vampire yet. And they were amazingly common on BOTH sides on my old characters.

[Kiaransalius]

As someone who has had to talk to more "knights" than I ever wanted to, heh, the fraction of those I've talked to who work "outside-the-norm" has been extremely high. Extremely. I can count the "normals" on one hand.

But everyone's experiences have been different, as has been noted, and most of the time, others working outside the norm hasn't prevented me from interacting with them.

Yay im normal.... ish....

I don't mind the outside the norm stuff, it makes me feel like Kiara is even more. I had her flirt with wanting to become a real paladin, but it was more as a character growth thing. It was never going to really happen. Now she is turning more and more into what I want her to be.

[Abric]

I've been debating on making a Blood Knight, just to stomp the girls into the ground with some Lawful Evil Anti-Paladin sort of stuff.

Of course, that would mean I would have to write RP stories. Which... I should be doing with Abric and Bevial, but I haven't.

So I'm just going to presume nobody knows what they are doing - especially Anaie. MORE Silvermoon petting!

[Kiaransalius]

((hey im getting to be a good tank thank you very much!))

[Atticuss]

I would have to write RP stories. Which... I should be doing with Abric and Bevial, but I haven't.
I would love this.
Also, I'm rolling a evil pally after I finish collecting welfare epics on Atty.