Now THIS I like...

[Skafloc]

From today's patch notes:

HUNTERS:

Arcane Shot: Ranks 1-5 will once again deal bonus damage based on attack power.

Aspect of the Viper effect increased. (yay!)

Freezing Trap no longer limited to one target at a time. ( I want to see this in action )

Pet leveling speed increased. ( again.. YAY! )

Oh and finally....

Blade's Edge Mountains : Players accepting the bombing run quests in Blade's Edge Plateaus will no longer cause other players in the region to stand up. ( so THAT is what was happening.. )

[Evanthe]

Ahh, patch day. Anyone feel like copy/pasting for those of us stuck at work?

also /target broom /mourn

[Brandub]

Neither Hunters NOR Druids needed any help, thank you...

General
* /timetest is a command that can be run to provide information on game performance. /timetest 0 turns the command off. When the command is issued, the next time a player uses a flight master to travel, certain statistics will be measured and displayed at the end of that flight. All weather effects and spawns are shutdown during the test.
* Effects triggered from being critically hit: Many abilities and talents were changed in 2.3.0 to allow them to trigger from critical strikes that occurred while the player benefitting from them was sitting.
* Quest givers with blue question marks no longer show up on the minimap.
* NPC's who you have completed a quest for will display a question mark on mouseover rather than an exclamation point.
* The bank controls for the guildmaster level of a guild is now grayed out. A guildmaster always has full access to a guild bank and this cannot be changed.
* A "Withdraw-Repair Only" button has been added to the guild bank controls. If this is set for a guild rank, then that rank cannot actually withdraw funds from the guild bank, but they can still use that daily amount of money for repairs.
* You will now automatically stand up when attacked, even if the attack doesn’t land.
* Boat and zeppelin vendors and NPCs are are back on duty.
* Reduced network latency by disabling the Nagle algorithm.
PvP
* Warmasters/marshals in Alterac Valley now increase each other’s maximum health and damage by 20%. This is a stacking effect.
Druids
* Lifebloom: When this ability is refreshed it will take on the strength of the incoming Lifebloom effect, rather than maintain the existing strength.
* Ravage: The damage multiplier on this ability has been increased from 350% to 385%.
Hunters
* Arcane Shot: Ranks 1-5 will once again deal bonus damage based on attack power.
* Aspect of the Viper effect increased.
* Freezing Trap is no longer limited to one target at a time.
* Pet leveling speed has been increased.
Mages
* Cold Snap (Frost) cooldown reduced. It is now in the Ice Block position in the talent tree. This ability will no longer reset the cooldown on Fire Ward.
* Conjure Mana Gem mana restore variance substantially reduced,(Rank 5 – Emerald) now restores 2340 to 2460 mana and has three charges.
* Ice Block (Frost) is now available on the trainer to all mages at level 30.
* Icy Veins (NEW Frost Talent) decreases casting time of all spells by 20% and increases the chance your chilling effects will freeze the target by 10%. Lasts 20 sec. 3 min cooldown. It is now in the Cold Snap position in the talent tree.
Paladins
* Crusader Strike (Retribution) now causes 110% of weapon damage and no longer gains any bonus from spell damage.
* Righteous Fury: This spell will no longer cost twice the listed mana to cast.
* Sanctified Judgements (Retribution) now returns 80% of the Seal's mana cost, increased from 50%.
Rogues
* Ambush: The damage multiplier on this ability has been increased from 250% to 275%.
* Cheat Death: When multiple attacks land simultaenously, all those resolved after the attack which triggered Cheat Death will now have their damage reduced by 90% as intended. However, the combat log will still report them doing full damage.
* Hemorrhage: Rank 4 of this ability no longer has its charges consumed by non-physical attacks and spells.
* Hemorrhage weapon damage reduced from 125% to 110%, but the damage debuff has been increased.
* Hemorrhage: This ability now correctly does additional damage when its debuff has already been applied.
* Preparation now resets the cooldown of Shadowstep and no longer resets the cooldown of Adrenaline Rush.
* Shadowstep now adds a 3 second, 70% movement speed increase.
* Sinister Calling now also increases the percentage damage bonus of Hemorrhage and Backstab by 2/4/6/8/10%.
Shaman
* Lightning Shield mana cost reduced.
* Water Shield now restores mana periodically regardless of how many charges remain. Duration increased to 10 minutes.
Warlock
* The health cost taken from the Warlock after using Health Funnel will now remain consistent between uses.
Warrior
* Defiance: The expertise granted by this talent now works properly in all stances.
* Warriors no longer lose rage when using a macro to enter a stance they’re already in.
Professions
* Cooking
o Goldthorn Tea was erroneously unlearned by most players who had learned the recipe. The recipe has been re-enabled and can be learned again from Henry Stern in Razorfen Downs at no cost.
* Enchanting:
o Enchant Shield - Resilience now requires a Runed Fel Iron Rod instead of a Runed Adamantite Rod.
* Leatherworking:
o Increased the range of leatherworking drums to 40 yards. Drums of Panic remains unchanged at 8 yards.
Items
* Amani Charm of the Witch Doctor: Tooltip typo corrected.
* Hearthstone: The cast time on this item is no longer affected by spell haste.
* Hex Shrunken Head: This item now has a 20 second shared cooldown with other similar trinkets.
* Icy Chill Enchant: The triggered effect from this enchantment will now cause a melee slow and movement snare as intended.
* Idol of the Unseen Moon: This item now has a 30 second cooldown on being triggered.
* Idol of Terror: The triggered agility buff from this item no longer overwrites other agility buffs.
* The Netherscale Ammo Pouch is no longer a Unique item.
* The Knothide Quiver is no longer unique.
* The Vengeful Gladiator’s Grimoire is now available on vendors.
Dungeons and Raids
* Heroic Coilfang Resevoir- Steamvaults
o Mekgineer Steamrigger's Main Chambers Access Panel is no longer interactable until Mekgineer Steamrigger has been killed. Tempest Keep- The Eye
+ The number of Blood Elves guarding Prince Kael'Thas' room has been reduced.
o Zul'Aman
+ The Amani'shi Warrior's Charge ability now has a minimum range.
+ The melee haste provided by Halazzi's Frenzy has been reduced to 100%.
+ Dragonhawks in Zul'Aman can now be skinned. This doesn't include dragonhawks that do not have loot.
Quests
o Blade's Edge Mountains: Players accepting the bombing run quests in Blade's Edge Plateaus will no longer cause other players in the region to stand up.
User Interface
o There is now an option to turn off the screen edge damage flash when you have a fullscreen UI up.
o You can sell stacks by dropping them on the merchant window again.
o Ready check (/readycheck) will now display a visual display of each party/raid member's status next to their name. This will display in the Party UI, the Raid UI and the Raid pullout UI. A player will get a check mark if they are ready, a question mark if they have not replied and a red X if they are not ready or are afk.
o You can now see raid members on the minimap as dark blue dots in addition to party members which still display as light blue dots.
o You can now shift click names while the petition window is open to paste them into the petition.
o Fixed various problems with /castsequence getting stuck.
o /cast will toggle spells again unless the name is prefixed with an exclamation mark, e.g. /castsequence Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
Bug Fixes
o Characters may now possess up to five Paper Flying Machines in a single stack.
o Fixed “Spell/Ability is not ready yet” message when clicking quickly at the beginning of a cast.
o Fixed a server disconnect when moving the mouse over recipes in the guild bank.
o Gnomish Universal Remote will now work properly with the Fel Cannon.
o Disconnecting a USB HeadSet will no longer cause problems with the Voice Chat dropdown menus.
o Clockwork Rocket Bots will no longer attack each other in Shattrath City.
o Channel changes will now appear properly in the chat log after zoning in or out of instances.
o Unplugging headphones/speakers then plugging them back in while in WoW no longer disables all sound in WoW
o If the original owner of a custom channel gives leadership away their options menu will no longer show that they have moderation privileges.
o The first custom created guild ranking will now properly show up in the Guild Control pane drop down menu.
o Control-clicking on inventory items that teach recipes will now properly display you wearing the item made by the recipe in the dressing room UI.
o Fixed an issue that was not allowing all charges of a Field Repair Bot to be used.
o Creatures with random player targeting crowd control abilities such as fear, charm, or sleep will now properly choose a random eligible target rather than just choosing the nearest eligible target.
o The various Hallow’s End broom mounts now have their proper real-time (rather than game-time) duration of 14 days.
o Tricky Treats now have their proper real-time (rather than game-time) duration of 24 hours.

[Styxen]

And aspect of the viper still remains only useful for grinding as a hunter...

[Skafloc]

And aspect of the viper still remains only useful for grinding as a hunter...


I actually find myself using it a lot in Kara and Zul Aman during the trash mob clears, just to save on drinking time.

[Darkblade]

o Gnomish Universal Remote will now work properly with the Fel Cannon.

o.O
I may have to pull mine out of the bank and dust it off...

Edit: Oh, and I see that my profile sig has finally updated again. :)

[Fallacy]

They did maitanence on the Armory yesterday, so it should be fixed.

[Maegannon]

WAIT WAIT.. should be fixed right?

*looks to see if her guild tag has been updated yet* NOPE + my + healing is something closer to like 1400 now..

*pokes her sig*

[Tillna]

I has more silly druid.


And woot for Water shiled being infinitly more useful

[Maegannon]

I also work during prime raiding hours, thus any gear Mae might posses are via hand-outs and pity kara runs ;p

If I worked during the day, rest assured, I'd be as geared out as Orin from First Legion <3

and.. uh.. yay for better lifebloom, or.. uh.. something. Now when I pvp, I can stand around 2x as long while 19 horde attempt to beat the living snot out of me. I was already pretty hard to kill, now I can HoT moar and laugh at you all! HAW!

[Roth'rili]

I has more silly druid.


And woot for Water shiled being infinitly more useful

Useful in PvE, PvP its a rather nasty nerf

[Fallacy]

Eh? Water Shield didn't get changed at all for PvP, just got a longer duration (so it doesn't have to be refreshed every damn minute).

[Nasuj]

From today's patch notes:
HUNTERS:
Freezing Trap no longer limited to one target at a time. ( I want to see this in action )


From what I hear you need to spec for the 41 Survival talent to pull this off.

I encourage all Alliance hunters to do so so I can laugh.

[Lascivious]

And aspect of the viper still remains only useful for grinding as a hunter...


i only use Viper in instances, especially boss fights.

since it's a PVP server i don't like being caught without mana so i found myself drinking a lot anyway even with Viper up, so i rarely use it while soloing.

[Roth'rili]

Eh? Water Shield didn't get changed at all for PvP, just got a longer duration (so it doesn't have to be refreshed every damn minute).

No no no water shield was you get hit you get mana right? Well know its regardless of charges all it is is a mp5 buff that last 10 minutes its not like a on dmg proc mana up thing. So you can't spam it get hit and just keep getting mana back. Now its just mana regen

[Nasuj]

No no no water shield was you get hit you get mana right? Well know its regardless of charges all it is is a mp5 buff that last 10 minutes its not like a on dmg proc mana up thing. So you can't spam it get hit and just keep getting mana back. Now its just mana regen

Thing is, the mp5 buff from what I've heard (obsessive test realm people, since this is the second time I've used this phrase), its a *huge* mp5 buff. Like Blessing of Wisdom huge.

[Sci]

/cry sob moan hissy fit

[Roth'rili]

I'll tell you even with water globe being as good as Blesing of wisdom in PvP its not going to be the powerhouse it was before patch. One warrior on a shaman can keep his mana up indefaintly over having to rely on on mp5.


And it's offical my rogue is now retired permently D:

/hugs =(

[Nasuj]

I'll tell you even with water globe being as good as Blesing of wisdom in PvP its not going to be the powerhouse it was before patch. One warrior on a shaman can keep his mana up indefaintly over having to rely on on mp5.

Not disagreeing at all. But its nice that shamans have a decent mana regen in PvE. Because Mana Spring totem... sucks.

[Maegannon]

*TWITCHES* GOD DANMIT I HATE TUESDAYS.. I HAVE TO GO TO WORK IN A LITTLE WHILE AND I WANNA LOG IN AND CHECK MAI MAIL AND DO MAI DAILIES OMG OMG OMG *moar twitching*

[Roth'rili]

Yay but it kills the longevity of the one of the nice setups and only setups I see for my new 3v3. MS war, resto shammy and holy pally, and I was hoping to get 2000 with it. So I'm going to cry in my corner, shammie partner is just going to get his thing dispelled and bye bye mana. Though yeah it is kind of OP like old school pally illumination when the shaman was getting focus fire or dispelled = shaman never ran out of mana

PvE its a nice buff stacking with BoW its going to be sick regen for them

[Xaraphyne]

From what I hear you need to spec for the 41 Survival talent to pull this off.

I encourage all Alliance hunters to do so so I can laugh.

Nah, even with Readiness you can't -keep- two enemies trapped. But with just 12 in Surv you can trap one mob once and keep another chain-trapped. It's not easy, but it can be done as long as you have skill; one reason the nerf was so disappointing. Glad to see it back :D

And I totally use Viper for raiding. Not 24/7, but if I didn't at all I'd have to blow -all- of my money on mana pots instead of just some.

[Nasuj]

Nah, even with Readiness you can't -keep- two enemies trapped. But with just 12 in Surv you can trap one mob once and keep another chain-trapped

Ahh. Thank you. *Makes notes*


It's not easy, but it can be done as long as you have skill


So I still have nothing to worry about?

[Xaraphyne]

So I still have nothing to worry about?

I got nothin'.

[Styxen]

I know you guys may think the mana from viper is a good trade off but you are losing a ton of extra ap and the imp AotH ability... (You guys did spec for that right?) which for raiding and anything serious you want to do, you are there for damage...

And how are hunters blowing their mana so quickly?


Edit for shamans:

You do know it still works the same way as before with the whole hitting you, and you get mana back. The only thing that changed is you don't get mana back after that minute. It just laster longer and gives you mp 5 while it's up in ADDITION to mana back for getting smashed in the face.

[Kaldore]

I know you guys may think the mana from viper is a good trade off but you are losing a ton of extra ap and the imp AotH ability... (You guys did spec for that right?) which for raiding and anything serious you want to do, you are there for damage...

And how are hunters blowing their mana so quickly?

I only have a level 36 Hunter, so don't shy away from telling me I'm wrong, BUT... In the 25 Man Raids now we have fights that last 10-20 minutes or have Mana draining components. So wouldn't that be a better aspect to use in some cases?

[Skafloc]

I know you guys may think the mana from viper is a good trade off but you are losing a ton of extra ap and the imp AotH ability... (You guys did spec for that right?) which for raiding and anything serious you want to do, you are there for damage...

Like I said, I use it really only on the trash mobs. For the boss fights or harder mobs I most definitely switch to AotH.

[Styxen]

I only have a level 36 Hunter, so don't shy away from telling me I'm wrong, BUT... In the 25 Man Raids now we have fights that last 10-20 minutes or have Mana draining components. So wouldn't that be a better aspect to use in some cases?

No it's not if you have so much as one paladin you won't run out of mana, even still the damage you lose from the talent not being active with viper and the extra ap is actually quite significant to your damage.

On Vashj I use usually a grand total of one super mana pot. Hunters really don't have mana issues at all especially in raids, you can even invest in mageblood elixirs if you really want to be safe.

[Kiaransalius]

How bad is that hemo nerf, I was about to switch to a combat swords/hemo build.... but not having hemo prior, I do not know how bad that nerf is...

[Nasuj]

Its negligible.

[Styxen]

It's still better than the old hemo so think of it like that.

[Daedraug]

You'll notice it less the longer fights go on, since the damage bonus of the power is being upped even though the attack itself is losing some power.

[Roth'rili]

Well I'm not sure the wording of it made me think that they changed it to mp5 hits just make the globes go away thus the buff being gone for water shield. But if its still returns mana per hit while at the same time giving mp5. Its no nerf its a massive buff, so if a pvp shammie doesn't get hit its still useful

[Daedraug]

mp5

Am I the only one who can't get past this phrase?

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2400819/2/istockphoto_2400819_mp5_rifle_replica_on_white_bac kground_2.jpg

[Xaraphyne]

No it's not if you have so much as one paladin you won't run out of mana, even still the damage you lose from the talent not being active with viper and the extra ap is actually quite significant to your damage.

On Vashj I use usually a grand total of one super mana pot. Hunters really don't have mana issues at all especially in raids, you can even invest in mageblood elixirs if you really want to be safe.

Ehh, like I said, I mostly use it to save gold. -If- I don't mind using 3-4 fel mana pots every Gruul attempt, plus a mageblood elixir, plus restoring my mana oil every 30 minutes, I can keep Hawk up the whole ten-minute fight there. But that's pulling out all the stops; hardly "not having mana issues in raids". And for the record I even have 50 mp5.

-If- I have a pally in the raid, -if- I have a shaman or shadow priest in my group, I'll probably never switch to Viper. Unfortunately I don't always have a paladin for BoW/JoW, and all of our shadow priests have respecced, and I never get the group with the healy shamans... sigh. Sad huntar.

But when I'm fighting Nightbane for the 82934th time and I know we're gonna get him down? Or if I'm calling out infernals on Prince and I can barely watch my threat, much less my mana? Viper ftw.

[Chikt]

The problem with Shaman currently that Blizzard still refuses to acknowledge is that Shaman are highly dispellable.

Most classes in the game can remove Earth, Water and Lightning Shield and use it for themselves. Every class in the game that can dispell has a cheaper dispell than the cost of Lightning Shield (was) and Earth Shield. Every one of our 41 point talents are all totally dispellable, and Mana Tide can be destroyed just like any other totem even though it's on a 3 minute cooldown.

And don't even get me started on the destructibility of totems.

Earth Shield in particular is highly expensive-900 mana to cast for something that can be dispelled for next to nothing, or even spell stealed by a Mage for just 600 mana. That was meant to be changed in 2.3.2 but blizzard removed that change. Just as well, since they were going to halve the mana cost, add a 30 second cooldown timer to it, and not make it dispellable or only make one charge dispellable at a time. And if they did that, I'd stop playing my Shaman.

A 450 mana cost dispellable shield on a 30 second cooldown still is not worth using.

In PvP, Water Shield is okay. As a resto shaman I mostly use it in situations where I am low on mana and am not being beaten on too hard or by a cast that cannot interrupt my heals too well. Otherwise I first pop every other choice I have for mana restoration before I resort to that. And in the situations where I do need mana quickly, the 50mp5 might hit me twice before all 3 charges on the water shield are used up.

The changes were nice, but it's nothing that's going to give Shaman the sore buff they need to make more of a showing in the Arena's, or make people play them again.

Don't get me wrong, they're OKAY. But as a Resto Shaman, I'm effectively getting replaced an unnecessary in most everything I do unless I want to go back to raiding. I don't have the survivability or longevity of a Resto Druid, Priest or Paladin. The main reason I'm in my 5v5 really is because I can give some massive buffs to our group layout. But with how easily I am locked down 90&#37; of the time, I cannot help but wonder if they wouldn't do better if they didn't have one of those other classes. Shaman have been, for all intensive purposes, ignored along with Warriors.

This quote sums up Shaman as they currently are.


I think they're finally going to implement the godly

TOTEM OF THE CRUSADER!

Increases mounted speed by 20% as long as you are in range of the totem.

Sorry. I needed to QQ.

[Skafloc]

Am I the only one who can't get past this phrase?

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2400819/2/istockphoto_2400819_mp5_rifle_replica_on_white_bac kground_2.jpg

Having been trained on the MP5 and used it, yeah I think of the Hechler & Koch each time someone mentions mp5 in any context.

Xara, not sure about you but I also find Aspect of the Viper useful in the Illhoof fight, where I am forever switching between the chains and imp to burn them down. The Lynx boss I also found to be a mana drain.

[Daedraug]

Having been trained on the MP5 and used it, yeah I think of the Hechler & Koch each time someone mentions mp5 in any context.

My uncle was a training instructor for H&K when I was growing up. I had a poster of him practicing vehicle clearing techniques.

[Nasuj]

The problem with Shaman currently that Blizzard still refuses to acknowledge is that Shaman are highly dispellable.


Play a priest and get back to me. We have no instant heals, and everything we use to move and heal is dispellable. Not to mention the 3-4 buffs we go into combat with.

[Nasuj]

And last time I checked, totems can't be dispelled.

[Evanthe]

Actually, totems can be 'dispelled' by every class, if they choose to attack them.

[Kaliera]

At the time being, priests are one of the hardest classes to dispel when they're specced properly for PvP. Pain Suppression is a bitch and a half, making priests arguably the most durable healer when still healing under pressure.

As for druids and hunters not needing any help...wha? Hunters had a needless nerf removed that was enacted last patch (the freezing trap issue), which was limited almost entirely to PvE. A non-readiness hunter could set one trap down, then set another down immediately after the first target is frozen to freeze two...but neither could be effectively kept frozen, so it wasn't a big deal. As for readiness, I have yet to see a survival hunter go 41 points deep into the tree instead of picking up scatter shot, a far more useful PvP tool.

If anything happened from this patch, druids were mildly nerfed. Rolling lifeblooms were pretty damn disgusting, and they were finally removed. Ravage damage increase was the only buff druids saw with this patch, a move that is absolutely worthless against targets with even a smidgen of PvP gear.

[Styxen]

I ask again how are you hunters burning through enough mana to need 3 fel mana pots and a mage blood elixir on gruul? That just blows my mind.

[Kaliera]

I ask again how are you hunters burning through enough mana to need 3 fel mana pots and a mage blood elixir on gruul? That just blows my mind.

Marksmanship or Survival specced, I'm willing to bet.

[Lascivious]

I ask again how are you hunters burning through enough mana to need 3 fel mana pots and a mage blood elixir on gruul? That just blows my mind.

are you a mana efficient hunter? if so tips are welcome instead of a random question about our own mana inefficiency. i can tell you how i blow through mana. AP, STA, AGI, INT are the order i go for my stats. i have a high AP and Health and low crit and mana pool. i can't remember my mana pool right now, but it's not high though. my weapon rotation is pretty much Auto, SS, AUTO, SS, Auto, Arcane, repeat. I can get an auto shot off immediately before and after my SSs. i don't even know if I should be using Arcane because of the global cool down but i do. SS uses hardly any mana but my mana still goes fast.

and i'm BM (without Beast Within - I took Scattershot because I wanted another form of CC in PVP). i would think MM with it's talent to increase Intel and Intel adding to AP that they would look for more intel gear and have more mana, also Efficiency which i dont have. someone commented on MM hunter not being mana efficient, but on the surface, the talents would suggest otherwise. but I've never been full MM so couldn't say.

[Muatah]

I ask again how are you hunters burning through enough mana to need 3 fel mana pots and a mage blood elixir on gruul? That just blows my mind.

3 Fels does seem like a crazy amount, but on the other hand, if there is.....

1) No Paladin Judging Wisdom
2) No Blessing of Wisdom
3) No Shadow Priest in my group
4) Full-bore "I-don't-care-about-conserving-mana" shot rotation

= I go through my 8.5k+ Mana Pool in amazingly short order.

*shrug*

[Solenev]

I think consideration has to go to groups who have low DPS all-round. It's hard to keep mana up when it takes forever for something to die.

[Bir]

This is what I think of the patch..
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=3773315318&sid=1&pageNo=1

[Kaliera]

and i'm BM (without Beast Within - I took Scattershot because I wanted another form of CC in PVP). i would think MM with it's talent to increase Intel and Intel adding to AP that they would look for more intel gear and have more mana, also Efficiency which i dont have. someone commented on MM hunter not being mana efficient, but on the surface, the talents would suggest otherwise. but I've never been full MM so couldn't say.

The problem with the Marksmanship tree and it's lack of efficiency stems from the difference in haste. Serpent's Swiftness makes it so that a BM hunter only needs to use Steady Shot, Auto Shot, and Kill Command in their rotations. One of these skills is free, and the other two are incredibly efficient. Marks hunters, on the other hand, must weave in arcane and multi-shots to lower the gap. The end result is similar dps (assuming unlimited mana, but there lies the problem), but the marks hunter is using far more mana-intensive skills.

Most hunters go into raids with a full PvE spec as well. TBW makes for absolutely insane bursts of efficient damage, where scatter shot lends absolutely nothing to a raid environment. This, combined with a possible lack of the buffs mentioned above can lead to a hunter running out of mana, or relying on chain chugging potions for even short fights.

[Malakim]

It would seem I do have a hunter that is most mana efficient I have played both the Marks side and the BM side. BM is more efficient no lie, because the only real shot rotation you should be doing on the most part (Baring needing arc for a dispel, or something random) is steady shot get your auto shot off then steady shot again. Throw in trinkets kill command and cooldowns when they are up and that's about it.

If you are Marks you will be more mana intensive seeing as your shot rotation will have some arc or multi shots thrown in between steadys and auto. Which I can understand the need for an extra potion on some of the longer (over 10 minutes) boss fights.

I do know that hunter's are quite capable of blowing through their mana quite quickly, but I think most of the time it's because either they are old hunters (before BC) where they had to mash like every shot whenever it was up. Which is not how they are meant to be played anymore. It's a very steady controlled pace centered around your auto shots. So if you are still playing like you did back in the day, that will be a problem.

Also the number one killer to a hunter's mana pool STINGS they are pretty much worthless in pve. They do absolute trash damage for the amount of mana they cost and are essentially the joke that rend is for a warrior. If you are using stings on bosses that's where your mana is going for absolutely terrible returns just don't use them.

[Nasuj]

This is what I think of the patch..
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=3773315318&sid=1&pageNo=1

Lol at specs centered around a 10 minute cooldown?

[Malakim]

Lol at specs centered around a 10 minute cooldown?

come on now Jergal you know that means skill.

[Bir]

Lol at specs centered around a 10 minute cooldown?

Eh rogues in general have always been centered around cooldowns. I mean, what? Rogues withoout cooldowns are any good?!


I mean, I would love to just kick the shit out of everything without using any cooldowns at all but that would require all my enemies to be braindead. :) Easy for a paladin/shadow priest/hunter to have any pvp skill, right? You guys care to put your so called skill to the test? Fight a rogue who uses no cooldowns? You know that's a winning battle for you. I know I'd much rather pvp on my pally than my rogue.

Anyway, I guess I'll put my snippy remarks where they belong and level a hunter. LOTZ OF SKILL THERE.

[Chikt]

And last time I checked, totems can't be dispelled.

Level 70 totems can be dispelled by a level 1 player.

It's called Auto Attack.

[Lascivious]

Level 70 totems can be dispelled by a level 1 player.

It's called Auto Attack.

don't forget wands!

[Feorn]

don't forget wands!

lolwands. I'd be wasting an extra long GCD to take down a totem.

If I'm killing a grounding totem I'll just throw a rank 1 shadow word pain at the shaman.

Otherwise, melee is where it is at.

[Alana]

ha ha. totems are so lame.

[Xaraphyne]

3 Fels does seem like a crazy amount, but on the other hand, if there is.....

1) No Paladin Judging Wisdom
2) No Blessing of Wisdom
3) No Shadow Priest in my group
4) Full-bore "I-don't-care-about-conserving-mana" shot rotation

= I go through my 8.5k+ Mana Pool in amazingly short order.

*shrug*

QFT.

Also, hells no I'm not Marksman raiding. Do I like like a masochist?

Although I don't know what "full bore" would be for everyone; my shot rotation is only Auto/Steady/KC. Then again, I'm also maintaining Hunter's Mark, Scorpid Sting, and using Beast Within, Rapid Fire, and Berserking every time they're up. With occasional Feigns, Misdirects, and Arcanes or Multis when needed.

But yeah, when I tend to have two tanks, another hunter, and a warlock in my group... and no pallies meleeing... and the fight lasts almost ten minutes (yes, we're still struggling a bit)... BoW/mageblood elixir/mana oil plus 3-4 pots are completely necessary.

Even according to Cheeky's Spreadsheet my time to OOM when buffed as described is just over two minutes. How could I not go through 3-4 fel mana pots?

If I had a JoW it'd be six and a half though.... mmmm. Pallies need to have my babies.

You might notice a more lasting mana pool on fights where you're not just standing there and plucking away. If you have to move a lot and aren't casting, your passive mana regen can kick in.


are you a mana efficient hunter? if so tips are welcome instead of a random question about our own mana inefficiency. i can tell you how i blow through mana. AP, STA, AGI, INT are the order i go for my stats. i have a high AP and Health and low crit and mana pool. i can't remember my mana pool right now, but it's not high though. my weapon rotation is pretty much Auto, SS, AUTO, SS, Auto, Arcane, repeat. I can get an auto shot off immediately before and after my SSs. i don't even know if I should be using Arcane because of the global cool down but i do. SS uses hardly any mana but my mana still goes fast.

and i'm BM (without Beast Within - I took Scattershot because I wanted another form of CC in PVP). i would think MM with it's talent to increase Intel and Intel adding to AP that they would look for more intel gear and have more mana, also Efficiency which i dont have. someone commented on MM hunter not being mana efficient, but on the surface, the talents would suggest otherwise. but I've never been full MM so couldn't say.

As a BM hunter, you shouldn't be regularly using any shot besides Steady unless you have an extremely slow weapon (3.1 or slower I'd think). Trying to squeeze in an Arcane will just end up delaying your Auto Shot -- not advisable as that's straight lost DPS, and you're just paying extra mana to get in an extra shot that barely makes up for it. Auto will end up delayed because of its hidden cast time, and/or because the GCD of the added shot will interfere with you starting up the next Steady on time. If you have an Auto Shot timer it's easy to observe the effect; if you don't, I suggest zHunter mod, because it has a lot of other really nice features as well. :)

And yeah, for the record I don't have Efficiency either. I took Imp Mark to buff the raid instead.

[Malakim]

What did I say about using stings...

[Muatah]

What did I say about using stings...

Scorpid is certainly worth the mana. Straight 5&#37; miss debuff on a Boss? You bet I'm keeping it up. Just because fights can be done without it doesn't mean they should be done without it. To tell my raid "I'm not keeping it up because it means I have to use extra Mana pots" would just be slackass.

[Tillna]

What did I say about using stings...

They smell bad?

Never really noticed how much they suck...I'll keep em off my hunter

[Xaraphyne]

What did I say about using stings...

Scorpid Sting is the one that decreases a mob's chance to hit by 5&#37;. We're struggling to keep our tanks up on Gruul for the ten minutes we need to down him... so yeah, it's worth the mana hon. I'd use it on any boss a one-shot isn't pretty much guaranteed on, or just when I feel like giving the tanks and healers an easier time.

Even if they never give me the shammies or shadow priests. Sob.

You may not be familiar with Scorpid Sting if you're too old school to realize it has a place on your bar. ;)

[Malakim]

I am not too old school and I know it has it's uses at times, but it is a huge drain on your mana and if you are really in need of that extra and still struggling to get that boss down you are working on maybe (Not to sound mean) you shouldn't be working on him then. Perhaps there needs to be some more runs of Kara to gear up the tank a smidge more.

[Okhu]

Eh rogues in general have always been centered around cooldowns. I mean, what? Rogues withoout cooldowns are any good?!


I mean, I would love to just kick the shit out of everything without using any cooldowns at all but that would require all my enemies to be braindead. :) Easy for a paladin/shadow priest/hunter to have any pvp skill, right? You guys care to put your so called skill to the test? Fight a rogue who uses no cooldowns? You know that's a winning battle for you. I know I'd much rather pvp on my pally than my rogue.

Anyway, I guess I'll put my snippy remarks where they belong and level a hunter. LOTZ OF SKILL THERE.

*Cuddles the Bir*

They wouldn't understand our plight. ...The Noobs. -- Also that post you posted is full of win.

[Bir]

Okh you have 70 of both classes, what do you think?

I really am working on a hunter.

[Okhu]

Rogues get it worse then hunters, true story. But I hate my hunter. She's good at farming. Hurrhurr. I can kill stuff in overalls with a broom and my trusty musket....my hunting dog goes to fetch em a bit early but thats alright.

Wish I could PvP on my rogue still. QQ, sadly I can't because all areas for rogues are either broken or nerfed into a pile of cowcrap. QQ. WAIT! -- I CAN WALK FASTER WHEN I SHADOW STEP>...FOR THREE SECONDS :OOOO ITS LIKE A 3 SECOND SPRINT....

**Serious buffs only plz.**

[Kaldore]

I am not too old school and I know it has it's uses at times, but it is a huge drain on your mana and if you are really in need of that extra and still struggling to get that boss down you are working on maybe (Not to sound mean) you shouldn't be working on him then. Perhaps there needs to be some more runs of Kara to gear up the tank a smidge more.


I'm pretty decently geared and there are PLENTY of bosses where I like to see a Scorpid Sting on the debuffs.

Just off the top of my head:

Gruul
Maulgar
Mag
Tidewalker
Fathom Lord
ALL the bosses in Hyjal
Najentus
Supremus

[Nicoleta]

I respecc'd Phia for a shadowstep-hemo swords build the other day. I'm fighting the urge to make a BAMF emote. I'm Nightcrawler!

I'm sure my damage has suffered -- I haven't really kept track -- but it's stupid fun in battlegrounds.

[Okhu]

I'm full Subt - Have been for a while now. I like it, even if its gimp and you only do good damage on your first attack.. -- Resilience still kills Rogues. QQ Blizzard should probably fix Resilence...and Vanish....and Cloak of Skill...and--

It'd be easier to say what Blizzard doesn't need to fix, its a really short list.

[Malakim]

I'm pretty decently geared and there are PLENTY of bosses where I like to see a Scorpid Sting on the debuffs.

Just off the top of my head:

Gruul
Maulgar
Mag
Tidewalker
Fathom Lord
ALL the bosses in Hyjal
Najentus
Supremus

So the first curse your warlocks stick up is curse of weakness as well?

I am just letting the hunters know why they are running low on mana, keeping that sting up there is incredibly expensive. Most cases it isn't really necessary. Yes I know 5% can be useful but it is far from game breaking required. The boss will miss you a few extra times during the fight, but if it is draining the hunter to the point they need to use aspect of the viper and a few stacks of mana potions then it really isn't worth it due to the fact that with the dps they are losing by needing viper over hawk it is more likely you got hit more because the boss didn't die quick enough than the amount of hits that missed you from Scorpid Sting being up. It's all in the trade off, if you have unlimited mana than fine toss it up it won't hurt. If your mana is limited and you notice that you have to go through stacks of mana pots and needing to use apsect of the viper it's not really worth the trade off.

[Bir]

I'm pretty decently geared

BIGGEST UNDERSTATEMENT OF 2008.


So the first curse your warlocks stick up is curse of weakness as well?


Yeah, most raiding guilds have special warlocks who spec into improved weakness to benefit the whole raid, not just their own dps. Since their own dps doesn't matter and it's about downing the boss.

[Nasuj]

This thread is full of laughter. Thanks guys.

[Okhu]

BIGGEST UNDERSTATEMENT OF 2008.



Yeah, most raiding guilds have special warlocks who spec into improved weakness to benefit the whole raid, not just their own dps. Since their own dps doesn't matter and it's about downing the boss.

Bir is on a roll today. :>

[Kaldore]

So the first curse your warlocks stick up is curse of weakness as well?


Well... I'm not as well versed in endgame Warlock raiding as I'd like to be, but I know when we were learning Maulgar (aka I was in half Tier 2/half Bold) that it was a required debuff.

We bring 4+ Locks most places it seems, so I'm not certain if someone is dedicated to maintaining that specific curse.

[Farewell]

I am a rogue and I use mutilate

[Xaraphyne]

I am just letting the hunters know why they are running low on mana, keeping that sting up there is incredibly expensive. Most cases it isn't really necessary. Yes I know 5&#37; can be useful but it is far from game breaking required. The boss will miss you a few extra times during the fight, but if it is draining the hunter to the point they need to use aspect of the viper and a few stacks of mana potions then it really isn't worth it due to the fact that with the dps they are losing by needing viper over hawk it is more likely you got hit more because the boss didn't die quick enough than the amount of hits that missed you from Scorpid Sting being up. It's all in the trade off, if you have unlimited mana than fine toss it up it won't hurt. If your mana is limited and you notice that you have to go through stacks of mana pots and needing to use apsect of the viper it's not really worth the trade off.

True, if I were forced to switch to Viper the lost DPS would translate to more time which would pretty much make Scorpid moot. But if it's just a matter of blowing more money on pots? I don't mind to help my guild progress. "Worth the trade off" is purely dependant on how much you're willing to sacrifice.

Oh and for the record our ganks are geared to the teeth... It's just the whole ten minutes thing... what with growths and all. It's our DPSers who need to improve, but unfortunately we're still struggling to fill 25-man raids in the first place, so we little casuals just try to do what we can.

[Kaldore]

Let me know if you have any questions Xara.

[Xaraphyne]

Let me know if you have any questions Xara.

Hugs!