tarsus
05-20-2006, 04:53 AM
Hi. I'm bored, especially with WoW, so I thought I'd troll some forums and rant a bit, heh.
First off, I'd like to say I have no problem at all with Rping, in fact, quite the contrary, I use to own and operate a forum based RPG where all you did was RP in text. The project was too ambitious for one man without a team and too many members to divide my attention between and it died, but I digress.
My main purpose for posting here this evening was to discuss RP and its role or non-role in WoW's design. When I started this game, I truly did want to RP. In fact, as soon as an RPPvP server came up, I switched from my PvP server, (during which point my character was one week from rank 13), to Twisting Nether. However, I found it almost impossible to do so within the game's mechanics which leads me to believe WoW never thought to design its game as a RP-friendly environment in the first place. Sure, the lore is all there. The game has a great story, a detailed history, and a unique tradition, but the game mechanics seem to me so flawed, so restricting, so geared towards PvE friendly crap, that I can my no means figure out how my character could accept the world around him. I have discussed the following issues in WoW's RP thread and have yet to find any acceptable answers. Perhaps you all could help me.
Instancing:
These magical portals that inhabit our realm provide a limited number of players access to an area of the world that is inhabited by creatures and their commanders and server as an objective for many quests. The problem of course is how to accept these portals as containing unique quest monsters that countless others have already slain. Common answers to this problem are somewhere along the lines of "If we can rez, they can rez" or "another boss came to take it's place." As to the question of why we kill them if they just come back, many say something like "we are slowing down their evil plans," or whatnot.
Now while these may seem like decent answers, there are far too many holes such as why quest givers won't have you keep coming back to keep those monsters back. Why don't we find out who is rezing the boss and kill them so they stop doing whatever the hell it is there are doing to warrant their demise? Why do quest-givers give the impression that once you have killed them, they will not return, that the town is safe? How can 10 different groups of 5 people be in the deadmines at once, killing the same people, saving the same town. Also, Why do instances only allow a set number of people? Why do you automatically rez at the instance entrance if you run back? If I were to RP, how would my character accept these seeming contradictions?
Combat:
There is conflict out there. BGs exist whether or not you participate in them. Multiple battles of the same area occur at once. We have not gained or lost any territory for even a modicum of time. We have “marks of honor” to prove our victories, but where are the results of these victories? How come I can walk through people? Why can’t I shoot someone with a bow at point blank even if it may be less effective?
Why can’t I stab my friend in the back, literally? Treachery comes in more forms that just words or switching guilds and adds a lot of spice to RP. I cannot steal from my faction, nor enemies for that matter. I cannot stab my faction in the back. For some reason, the blizzard my party’s mage is casting does not affect me, though it hits me. Do all spells have an IFF system like our planes do that somehow makes certain people immune to damage? Is there some sort of gas in newbie areas that prevent the other faction from slaying our trainees? What the hell is going on?
Communication
People can talk to each other no matter how far apart they are. It doesn’t matter if you only use /say or not, the fact is, others communicate with people who are across the globe. The most common argument is that our hearthstones are communicating devices. ORLY? Is that why when I put my hearthstone in the bank I still hear people in my guild talking to me? Is that why I have quests to run a message from point A to point B or to warn someone about X event? If NPCs can’t talk to each other from across the globe, what makes us so damn special?
Leveling
Okay, I know some games like the leveling system, and in itself, leveling isn’t bad, but why the hell would I need to kill a million monsters just to learn how to make a finely crafted sword? Why do I have to level past 40 to be able to make the best potions? If I wanted to make the fanciest clothes in the land, why do I have to have to be a fighter?
Now I know that no game can make a perfect RP environment, there will always be something that won’t make sense, but these are huge in my opinion. I can ignore minor details like logging off and disappearing from the world or not being able to knock down a barrel or dig up a hole in the terrain. But this stuff is something that is there everyday, in our character’s faces, that challenges their concept of reality constantly. My friend is really pissing me off today, but I can’t punch him. I just killed an enemy today, but I can’t cut him up and take his head as proof or take any of his belongings. I hear countless voices constantly, but I rarely see where they come from. I take on countless assassination quests, but the second I return to the same area, it’s as though I’ve never killed them.
To go off on a tangent, UO may have had a lot of problems, but even though it was an FFA game in the beginning, it was the most open and best RP experience I’ve ever had. I spent the first 3 weeks of my time in the town of Trinsic doing nothing but tailoring and meeting new people. During this time, I met my best online friends whom, after 10 years, I still talk to off and on when I see them on ICQ. I didn’t have to kill a single monster, yet I made enough money to buy a small cottage just outside of Vesper. I furnished it with some basic necessities and had my friend’s over periodically. Later, I trained in weapon skills and fought monsters, yet when I killed an animal, it didn’t randomly drop a magical weapon, it dropped meat and hides. When I killed an orc, the sword it was using didn’t stick to its hands, I was able to grab it. When I died at the hands of another player, he rightfully took all my valuable items, not needing to camp me because he already got what he wanted.
To me, even if it had no 3D graphics or superbly crafted and scripted raid dungeons, was a reality my character could accept and have fun in immersing himself into his surroundings. I have never felt that way in WoW and I don’t think I ever will. To me, this is just an RPG version of a FPS. I gain equipment from PvE to use in multiplayer PvP maps, and those maps are getting old fast…
Anyways, if you actually read that whole think, that’s for reading it. I just needed to rant, heh.
First off, I'd like to say I have no problem at all with Rping, in fact, quite the contrary, I use to own and operate a forum based RPG where all you did was RP in text. The project was too ambitious for one man without a team and too many members to divide my attention between and it died, but I digress.
My main purpose for posting here this evening was to discuss RP and its role or non-role in WoW's design. When I started this game, I truly did want to RP. In fact, as soon as an RPPvP server came up, I switched from my PvP server, (during which point my character was one week from rank 13), to Twisting Nether. However, I found it almost impossible to do so within the game's mechanics which leads me to believe WoW never thought to design its game as a RP-friendly environment in the first place. Sure, the lore is all there. The game has a great story, a detailed history, and a unique tradition, but the game mechanics seem to me so flawed, so restricting, so geared towards PvE friendly crap, that I can my no means figure out how my character could accept the world around him. I have discussed the following issues in WoW's RP thread and have yet to find any acceptable answers. Perhaps you all could help me.
Instancing:
These magical portals that inhabit our realm provide a limited number of players access to an area of the world that is inhabited by creatures and their commanders and server as an objective for many quests. The problem of course is how to accept these portals as containing unique quest monsters that countless others have already slain. Common answers to this problem are somewhere along the lines of "If we can rez, they can rez" or "another boss came to take it's place." As to the question of why we kill them if they just come back, many say something like "we are slowing down their evil plans," or whatnot.
Now while these may seem like decent answers, there are far too many holes such as why quest givers won't have you keep coming back to keep those monsters back. Why don't we find out who is rezing the boss and kill them so they stop doing whatever the hell it is there are doing to warrant their demise? Why do quest-givers give the impression that once you have killed them, they will not return, that the town is safe? How can 10 different groups of 5 people be in the deadmines at once, killing the same people, saving the same town. Also, Why do instances only allow a set number of people? Why do you automatically rez at the instance entrance if you run back? If I were to RP, how would my character accept these seeming contradictions?
Combat:
There is conflict out there. BGs exist whether or not you participate in them. Multiple battles of the same area occur at once. We have not gained or lost any territory for even a modicum of time. We have “marks of honor” to prove our victories, but where are the results of these victories? How come I can walk through people? Why can’t I shoot someone with a bow at point blank even if it may be less effective?
Why can’t I stab my friend in the back, literally? Treachery comes in more forms that just words or switching guilds and adds a lot of spice to RP. I cannot steal from my faction, nor enemies for that matter. I cannot stab my faction in the back. For some reason, the blizzard my party’s mage is casting does not affect me, though it hits me. Do all spells have an IFF system like our planes do that somehow makes certain people immune to damage? Is there some sort of gas in newbie areas that prevent the other faction from slaying our trainees? What the hell is going on?
Communication
People can talk to each other no matter how far apart they are. It doesn’t matter if you only use /say or not, the fact is, others communicate with people who are across the globe. The most common argument is that our hearthstones are communicating devices. ORLY? Is that why when I put my hearthstone in the bank I still hear people in my guild talking to me? Is that why I have quests to run a message from point A to point B or to warn someone about X event? If NPCs can’t talk to each other from across the globe, what makes us so damn special?
Leveling
Okay, I know some games like the leveling system, and in itself, leveling isn’t bad, but why the hell would I need to kill a million monsters just to learn how to make a finely crafted sword? Why do I have to level past 40 to be able to make the best potions? If I wanted to make the fanciest clothes in the land, why do I have to have to be a fighter?
Now I know that no game can make a perfect RP environment, there will always be something that won’t make sense, but these are huge in my opinion. I can ignore minor details like logging off and disappearing from the world or not being able to knock down a barrel or dig up a hole in the terrain. But this stuff is something that is there everyday, in our character’s faces, that challenges their concept of reality constantly. My friend is really pissing me off today, but I can’t punch him. I just killed an enemy today, but I can’t cut him up and take his head as proof or take any of his belongings. I hear countless voices constantly, but I rarely see where they come from. I take on countless assassination quests, but the second I return to the same area, it’s as though I’ve never killed them.
To go off on a tangent, UO may have had a lot of problems, but even though it was an FFA game in the beginning, it was the most open and best RP experience I’ve ever had. I spent the first 3 weeks of my time in the town of Trinsic doing nothing but tailoring and meeting new people. During this time, I met my best online friends whom, after 10 years, I still talk to off and on when I see them on ICQ. I didn’t have to kill a single monster, yet I made enough money to buy a small cottage just outside of Vesper. I furnished it with some basic necessities and had my friend’s over periodically. Later, I trained in weapon skills and fought monsters, yet when I killed an animal, it didn’t randomly drop a magical weapon, it dropped meat and hides. When I killed an orc, the sword it was using didn’t stick to its hands, I was able to grab it. When I died at the hands of another player, he rightfully took all my valuable items, not needing to camp me because he already got what he wanted.
To me, even if it had no 3D graphics or superbly crafted and scripted raid dungeons, was a reality my character could accept and have fun in immersing himself into his surroundings. I have never felt that way in WoW and I don’t think I ever will. To me, this is just an RPG version of a FPS. I gain equipment from PvE to use in multiplayer PvP maps, and those maps are getting old fast…
Anyways, if you actually read that whole think, that’s for reading it. I just needed to rant, heh.