Lich King RP Concerns

[Niethan]

Sure, the advance into Northrend is awesome. New content is always a plus, and the continued additions to oldworld stuff. Deathknights... not my thing, but a lot of people seem excited for it. But how is this going to effect the characters?

Niethan is a surprisingly religious character, bound to a god that abhors necromancy. Niethan logic'd a way around killing every Forsaken he sees, but the Deathknights? What is he going to do when suddenly everyone around him is practicing the one thing he cannot tolerate? He might very well start killing every deathknight he comes across-- something rather out of swing with the Sanctuary mindset.

How is the expansion going to affect your characters?

[Qabian]

Dalaran's gonna be neutral and the blue dragonflight have decided every mortal magic user needs to die? Oh god oh god oh god.

I can't wait! :D

[Evanthe]

Deathknights won't effect Evanthe any. She's generally not concerned with morality. And she's a warlock. She sucks out souls and uses them for her own purpose. Not too far off from raising the dead to use for your own purpose.

Now Ashtyn's reaction should be more interesting, since I can see it going either way. It would entirely depend on how the deathknights are introduced in-game. If she sees it as necessary to the Sin'Dorei's survival (i.e. Blood knights, which she is) she will accept it, albiet begrudgingly. Otherwise she'll view them as she does warlocks and have serious problems with them.

I can't wait.

[Lovely]

I have my name for my Death Knight saved already. Not sure what personality to give them yet though...I will think of it closer to the expansion.

Lovely will view the class neutrally, as she does all classes.

[Kaldore]

Niethan I have faith that you will pull through the same way you did when you heard that a bunch of squid-faced demons crash landed their space ship on Azeroth and started running around throwing down totems while riding elephants.

[Niethan]

...am I the ONLY person who's dreading the impact of the expansion? O.o

[Kaldore]

Nope. I want a chance to kill Arthas.

[Tillna]

Frieya really won't Care.

Tillna will view them as she views other evils. IF we don't utalize it, we lose out and give a less moral enemy the advantage

[Niethan]

Niethan I have faith that you will pull through the same way you did when you heard that a bunch of squid-faced demons crash landed their space ship on Azeroth and started running around throwing down totems while riding elephants.

Nie dealt with that by falling in love with the Draenei, to the point he started dressing up as them until I closed my second account.

I don't think he'll obsess over the deathknights in precisely the same way.

[Broxigan]

Nie dealt with that by falling in love with the Draenei, to the point he started dressing up as them until I closed my second account.

I don't think he'll obsess over the deathknights in precisely the same way.

It's called character building. You will hate them with a passion and should play it that way. ^^

[Xaraphyne]

Xara has good reason to pay the north a visit.

[Tillna]

boredom?

[Xaraphyne]

Arpeeeeeeeeee!

[Malorii]

It's gonna effect mal and brox big time. brox just dosn't know it yet XD

[Jeedup]

Nie dealt with that by falling in love with the Draenei, to the point he started dressing up as them until I closed my second account.

I don't think he'll obsess over the deathknights in precisely the same way.

Probably doesn't help that one has threatend to kill Niethan ;)

[Nadea]

Well, I expect to see the expansion pull some attention towards Infection, being an all-undead, forsaken guild and everything. Death Knights will be respected by Nadea and probably all of Infection, but I already know we won't be taking any DK's unless they are the undead race, due to the nature of the guild.

Perhaps we'll work something out with other DKs, however, and maybe come up with some sort of guild alliance or something *shrug*

Either way, the expansion should have a pretty big impact on Nadea and Infection as a whole. Amalee will care too, I'm just not sure how she's reacting quite yet =D

[Okhu]

-Twiddles Fingers-.....Okh-DeathKnight. Fo sho. Needs Moar Evil.

[Darkblade]

I've had my deathknight name reserved since I first heard about them. :)

I still need to figure out if the deathknight will replace one of my twins, or turn them into triplets.

[Sinthe]

Echo'ing Nadea's post. It'll be nice to have a high level character to put into Infection again. I miss teh Undead arpees.

[Nadea]

Echo'ing Nadea's post. It'll be nice to have a high level character to put into Infection again. I miss teh Undead arpees.

*patpat* silly little boil >=D

[Malorii]

I like infection, but i never gets teh are pea infecting things with them D:

[Swerto]

I actually started this game AFTER WoTLK was announced, so I created some of my characters in preperation for this.

Swerto is already on the line between forsaken and scourge, he sways in between, but at the moment is deeply commited to Lady Sylvanas and Infection.
When Northrend is openened (Hopefully Swerto will be 70 or at least 68) He will be one of the first to storm the shores in hopes of killing scourge...


Securo... he is a paladin... but not a blood knight.... he thirsts for power... which is how he came about stealing the power from the same source the blood knights steal theirs. When it comes time... perhaps Securo will become a Death Knight.... it is a path to greater power...





P.S. Malorii I <3 your avatar

[Nadea]

We're just elitist, thats all. ICly, I mean XD

Forsaken are superior to the rest of the horde. Its sort of like a cult, I suppose.

Because most forsaken tend to prefer other undeaddies over the other horde members, we provide that outlet for those that need it XD

[Faelen]

Well given the neutral Dalaran area.... you might just see Faelen walking around in ceremonial mage robes. *laughs loudly* The expansion, given Faelen's backstory, not only allows him as a Forsaken to get back to his roots and also assist in ending Arthas' hold of power once and for all.... he can be once again welcomed back to 'his people', I guess one could say. Naturally his being Forsaken will have it's own effects... but it allows me MANY RP opportunities. :P

[Malorii]

i wish they did this first instead ot he burning crusade.. f*ckin space goat hippies flying around in space ships.. I HATE GOATS *froths*

[Broxigan]

It's gonna effect mal and brox big time. brox just dosn't know it yet XD

...Geez....

[EnheilRas]

Sure, the advance into Northrend is awesome. New content is always a plus, and the continued additions to oldworld stuff. Deathknights... not my thing, but a lot of people seem excited for it. But how is this going to effect the characters?

Niethan is a surprisingly religious character, bound to a god that abhors necromancy. Niethan logic'd a way around killing every Forsaken he sees, but the Deathknights? What is he going to do when suddenly everyone around him is practicing the one thing he cannot tolerate? He might very well start killing every deathknight he comes across-- something rather out of swing with the Sanctuary mindset.

How is the expansion going to affect your characters?


Welcome to my mindset when I, as a racist against everything elf, learned that they were being added to the Horde.

Now I just have a general prejudice I act out in accordance and constantly remind elves at random of "their place."

[Malorii]

Oh hush you know you like the weird are peas we get involvedi n brox :D

[Izhara]

I'm sooo excited for the next ep. So many new possibilities.. so many grudges to play out.

[Nadea]

Well given the neutral Dalaran area.... you might just see Faelen walking around in ceremonial mage robes. *laughs loudly* The expansion, given Faelen's backstory, not only allows him as a Forsaken to get back to his roots and also assist in ending Arthas' hold of power once and for all.... he can be once again welcomed back to 'his people', I guess one could say. Naturally his being Forsaken will have it's own effects... but it allows me MANY RP opportunities. :P

"One of us... one of us..."


*cackles* >=D

[Ryoku]

Ranva will hate the Deathknights as he hates all Scourge.. For good reason.

Ryoku will envy the Deathknights' power, but he'll still hate them as he hates generally everything.

I personally am loathing the coming of the Deathknight.

Out of all the classes they could choose... Deathknight? I didn't want a hero class in general, but if they really had to (which they apparently did) I was hoping for straight-up caster Necromancer. Although, I can understand why they didn't use that since we already have 2 Shadowmagic clothies, and one of them with pets too... But I really wanted to bring back those Diablo 2 Memories... Without actually playing Diablo 2.

[Rasta]

Well son of a. I just wrote a long, detailed, logical description of why Death Knights have to be the first hero class, then I pressed tab and then backspace. I want to murder.

[Leoren]

I get the feeling Death Knights will very much be treated like the new Warlocks. According to the lore they -could- have gone one way and served Arthas but ended up choosing their final allegiance with their respective factions. I really don't know how Leoren will treat them, as it'll be pretty hard to be righteous when your own order condones slaving and extorting a god.

As for Dalaran, given Leoren's history ... I imagine a very interesting nostalgia on his part.

[Sinthe]

*patpat* silly little boil >=D

I'm going to get aids and then pee in your eye.

[Faelen]

I'm going to get aids and then pee in your eye.

I hope no one reading this thread has AIDS...

[Sanrin]

Its cool they found a cure.

[Niethan]

I don't even know what that thing in your sig is, Sanrin, but I love you for it.

[Xiphus]

Xiphus is an assassin, first and foremost. His only commitment is perfection. In fact, he rather enjoys his line of work. He finds stalking a target for hours to be enjoyable, learning everything he could, figuring out methods, developing plans, waiting for opportunities, inducing paranoia and panic, the ongoing arms race, etc.. And thus, he might not find the idea of being a Death Knight all that appealing, unless Death Knights are able to stalk a target as well and do assassin-ish kind of stuff, and can do all that Psych-ops kind of thing (well, they can do Psych-ops by being extremely brutal and gory in his deeds, but not so much about the rest).

[Ryoku]

Well son of a. I just wrote a long, detailed, logical description of why Death Knights have to be the first hero class, then I pressed tab and then backspace. I want to murder.

Couldn't we just save the game by not having a hero class at all?

I really don't know if I'll want to play a game where everyone will want to play the same goddamn class.

Although demands for healers will skyrocket..

Yeah, I'm not to much for the Deathknight, though I'll probably still make one.

[Rasta]

Couldn't we just save the game by not having a hero class at all?

That was one of the basic keys to it. Because of the content of this xpac, and that they want to release Hero classes, they don't really have any choice but to make DK's the first ones. But, aside from balancing issues, there's really no reason they can't also release two others, say, one for each faction. It definitely wouldn't be a stretch in the lore, according to what they've demonstrated thus far.

[Malethia]

I just realized I have the name of my Death Knight reserved as well. The answer is in my backstory, and I just didn't realize it until I read this thread.

Whoopee! Nothing like family drama to get the blood flowing.

[Evanthe]

Yup, I have my death knight all planned out. I know, at first it's going to feel like 'World of Deathknights' before some people get bored and go back to their mains. I'm still going to play one, though. The game mechanics look cool.

[Ryoku]

I actually heard they plan on making a Demon Hunter Hero class, and a Cenarion Watcher (keeper of the grove) hero class.

Also, I haven't read much on it, but is Deathknight just here to be a new class with different concepts? Or is it gonna be really OP and able to damage like a mage and tank like a warrior?

[Tallius]

I imagine, since they can't use shields, they wont be as awesome for raiding. They, most likely, just wont have the mitigation to be able to keep up with any of the other tanks. Their melee DPS will probably be pretty good though, similar to a MS warrior. Thats at least the sense of things that I got from the info they've been giving out.

Demon hunter will be fully of sexy time, not sure about keeper of the grove...

[Darkblade]

They've said that even though the Deathknight is a "hero class", it's not going to be more powerful than existing classes (aside from unintentional balance issues, of course).

So it's essentially just a new character class.

[Swerto]

time to continue how characters are going to change


Kelithiaa is going to be filled full of rage, her whole time is going to be spent trying to get strong enough to reach northrend, to hopefully put an arrow through Arthas's head herself.

Gargarisa is going to change little, he is still going to pursue getting in touch with the spirits again, and try to atone for his crimes as a warlock.

Lucreciaa, well... she's going to be overjoyed... she will be spending her time trying to kill others... ya know the lich kings servant thing

Hectammar is probably going to go north, not to fight the lich king, but to try and find some alliance dwarves to kill... he hates them...

[NorthFace]

They've said that even though the Deathknight is a "hero class", it's not going to be more powerful than existing classes (aside from unintentional balance issues, of course).

So it's essentially just a new character class.

Haven't they also said the Deathknight "Starts at a high character level"?

So there won't really be a bunch of low level DKs running around once people start hitting 80.

[Roth'rili]

I imagine, since they can't use shields, they wont be as awesome for raiding. They, most likely, just wont have the mitigation to be able to keep up with any of the other tanks. Their melee DPS will probably be pretty good though, similar to a MS warrior. Thats at least the sense of things that I got from the info they've been giving out.

Demon hunter will be fully of sexy time, not sure about keeper of the grove...

*BUZZ noise* wrong! Currently druids can tank like a beast!...without a shield. They rely heavily on high dodge, hp and armor to tank and can't block.

I see it this way. Warrior pretty much as ever mitigation possible under cover. Druid's prime is dodge, Paladin's prime mit is block, I am going on a wild guess that since DKs will be tanking without the use of a shield that the only mit left is...parry. I think they will rely heavy on parry first and then dodge to mitigate taking dmg. Both forms completely prevent dmg unlike block but they might still have a high hp pool.

I know Blizz can find a means to make it work with several interesting DK control abilites they might have. Since they have only really introduced dmg abilites of DKs (from what I know) its obvious to assume they are more like a MS warrior. But atleast one ability helps them gain aggro I have read and thats the ability the DK does in the WOTLK trailer summoning undead to pull aggro I have read. If you want a link to that source I apologize I forgot where it was :(

[Malorii]

I just hope it looks pretty if not well ...my entire stoyrline is fucked

[Boulderdash]

*BUZZ noise* wrong! Currently druids can tank like a beast!...without a shield. They rely heavily on high dodge, hp and armor to tank and can't block.

I see it this way. Warrior pretty much as ever mitigation possible under cover. Druid's prime is dodge, Paladin's prime mit is block, I am going on a wild guess that since DKs will be tanking without the use of a shield that the only mit left is...parry. I think they will rely heavy on parry first and then dodge to mitigate taking dmg. Both forms completely prevent dmg unlike block but they might still have a high hp pool.

I know Blizz can find a means to make it work with several interesting DK control abilites they might have. Since they have only really introduced dmg abilites of DKs (from what I know) its obvious to assume they are more like a MS warrior. But atleast one ability helps them gain aggro I have read and thats the ability the DK does in the WOTLK trailer summoning undead to pull aggro I have read. If you want a link to that source I apologize I forgot where it was :(

Don't forget offensive mitigation IE: Debuffs. They might work mitigation into offensive debuffs, reduce the target's AP, reduce target's swing speed, reduce target's chance to hit, reduce target's damage... Warrior has some of these with demoralizing shout and thunderclap. Druids have one of these also with demoralizing roar and, to a limited degree, bash.

If you think about the theme they build with DeathKnights, it'd make a lot more sense for them to "tank" by reducing their enemy's ability to do damage, rather than soaking and/or mitigating it.

[Nomeni]

*BUZZ noise* wrong! Currently druids can tank like a beast!...without a shield. They rely heavily on high dodge, hp and armor to tank and can't block.
Not to be an ass, but you're wrong. Druid bear form makes up for the lack of plate AND shield. Seriously, Vilmah is in tanking gear on Armory, and with MotW has almost 13.8 armor. I have 12.something on Nomeni, and he's only level 64. Now, if you take away her shield, she has just over 10k armor. Seriously, I would like to see you throw a warrior, any kind of warrior, into a tanking situation in a raid without a shield. They WONT be able to take hits. Yeah, they can dodge and parry all they want, but plate doesn't have enough soak by itself to be able to take the kind of heat that raids crank out.


I see it this way. Warrior pretty much as ever mitigation possible under cover. Druid's prime is dodge, Paladin's prime mit is block, I am going on a wild guess that since DKs will be tanking without the use of a shield that the only mit left is...parry. I think they will rely heavy on parry first and then dodge to mitigate taking dmg. Both forms completely prevent dmg unlike block but they might still have a high hp pool.

Unless they have some insane armor + runes then no, Deathknights will NOT be able to tank past 5 man content. And then, they'll be like any other tank. They'll have to sacrifice DPS and ability rune slots in order to make up. And yeah, they'll probably have monstrous snap aggro ability, but unless they come up with a way to make up a whole 1/3 of their armor all over again, they wont be viable. Dodge and parry don't matter for shit if you can't take the hits when they DO hit you.

Edit-Boulderdash does have a point though.

[Nicoleta]

I envision Deathknight tanking relying heavily on parry-based mitigation, since their abilities are tied to firmly to their swordsmanship. Kind of like the whirling blades of steel you see in a well choreographed martial arts film.

[Roth'rili]

Not to be an ass, but you're wrong. Druid bear form makes up for the lack of plate AND shield. Seriously, Vilmah is in tanking gear on Armory, and with MotW has almost 13.8 armor. I have 12.something on Nomeni, and he's only level 64. Now, if you take away her shield, she has just over 10k armor. Seriously, I would like to see you throw a warrior, any kind of warrior, into a tanking situation in a raid without a shield. They WONT be able to take hits. Yeah, they can dodge and parry all they want, but plate doesn't have enough soak by itself to be able to take the kind of heat that raids crank out.

Not to be a ass but can you read what I posted? I said dodge, HP AND ARMOR. Dodge is their main mit sitting at 30&#37; or more chance to avoid a hit. HP and armor for when a hit does land. I don't see how you did not see that in my post or come up with some run of the mill thing about warriors tanking without a shield. What????? I have no idea where your coming from on this.

Please...re-read my post. I said druids tank like beasts! They are highly impressive at it, warriors have every type of mit working for them. I said nothing about removing their shield O_o I know mostly how every tank class tanks, what they need to become uncrushable (in that case druids can never be uncrushable its one of their downfalls hence the high HP and armor), uncritable and so forth. Some of my fav tanks are druids and I MH, HSM's druid tanks all the time (they hardly take any dmg, aka dodge). Every class as their own unqiue way to tank, parry is what I am seeing will be a prime mit for DKs next to dodge and as I said some kind of DK tricks to "soak" dmg when it happens.

Edit side note - Actually I'm unclear to if druids can not parry as well and thats why they are crushable. I know with the lose of block for DKs and only dodge and parry they will need something to shine to avoid getting roflstomped crushed.

[Nomeni]

Deathknights can't use shields. Thats why I made the comparison. XD

Now do you understand what I'm talking about? Because I totally understood what you were saying in the first place. lol

Oh...and because they lose their shield, the lose block too, which is a huge part of warrior and pally tanking. XD

And no, druids only get dodge.

[Ryoku]

They've said that even though the Deathknight is a "hero class", it's not going to be more powerful than existing classes (aside from unintentional balance issues, of course).

So it's essentially just a new character class.

Thank god.

[Tirdisar]

From how I see it, Death Knight tanking will be unique to other tanks, based only on the rune system. There's frost runes for frost damage, blood for physical attacks, and unholy for shadow damage. Frost runes may be used to debuff the mob to prevent damage, or create an ice shield or armor for the DK. Blood runes could be used for threat causing abilities, and unholy somewhere in between debuffing and threat, possibly a sort of health drain or another use through the undead the DK is able to summon.

At it's core, though, I'd see the DK tanking like a druid, using high armor and health to reduce the damage of crushing blows, and debuffs to compensate for other damage-reducing effects.

[Nomeni]

Also, sorry but I feel the need to clean my argument up a little more. What I was trying to get across is that it doesn't matter that druids don't have shields. They make up for it anyway with the armor multiplier for bear. You can't compare the two because of that. Thats why I brought up warriors(paladins would be in the same boat). Warrior and Deathknight both wear the same gear. Druids do tank well, yes, I know. But its because they have a ridiculous amount of armor to make up for the lack of parry and block. Deathknights will have the same base armor as an unshielded warrior, and thus will take hits just like an unshielded warrior....

Now if they get an armor multiplier talent that works even a BIT like druids, they'll be mosters. However, they'll probably have to make up for it using armor adding runestones or some talents that add &#37; armor gained from gear.

Edit- Out of curiosity, where is this 'Death Knights are going to have high armor' coming from? I haven't read about it anywhere and it doesn't make sense with the stuff I have read. >_>

[Ryoku]

It's an assumption that Deathknights are going to have high armor because they can wear plate.

Compared to classes that aren't Bearform Druids / Warriors / Paladins, they'll have a very high armor.

[EnheilRas]

Death Knights to Druids in 4 posts. A record.

[Nomeni]

I'm pretty sure plate doesn't mean jack for taking raid boss hits without talents and at least a shield, as I've said like three times before now. XD

[Tirdisar]

I just mentioned high armor because it's how druids negate crushing blows as well. Warriors and paladins do so by using Shield Block and Holy Shield.

[Nomeni]

Exactly. Right now what we know is that Death Knights are plate wearing shieldless death machines. Plate wearing shieldless death machine = very bad raid tank. Now, their talents and runes could very well prove me wrong, but thats what I know so far, so thats the call I'm making. Who knows, they might get a tanking talent that increases their armor by 10&#37; per point, but I doubt it.

Also note, I'm not talking about 5-mans. If a huge fat flightless bird that hurls astral energy at people can tank a 5 man, I'm pretty sure a shieldless death machine can too. XD

[Lascivious]

My Death Knights name is saved.

It's Lascivious. And she'll be more pissed than ever.

Unless the class sucks ass.

[Ryoku]

I put most of my concern into PvP, as I have drawn away from the Raiding aspect of WoW, and as far as PvP the Deathknight sounds like a powerful force combining ranged damage, melee damage, and plate armor together.

[Roth'rili]

All I keep hearing is their shieldless = crap, shieldless = crap, shieldless = crap. Are druids crap cause they are shieldless and parryless? Come on lets not be so close minded and have some faith the the Death Knight will come with tanking abilites and its own way to tank. We don't even know their abilities or what blizz is going to pull out of their arse for how they tank to go ad make assumtions that they aren't going to tank well. They said they will be able to tank with no shield, by god they are going to tank without a shield some how, and no one here knows that "how".

Were talking about more itemization on plate for parry and dodge with +stamina. They could very well have a parry move that resembles paladin holy shield, boosting parry to a wopping 80&#37; or something (like that whole martial art swordsmen thin mentioned before). That and they will probably be the most offensive debuffing tank, life transfers, debuffs, you name it they might have it. They might have the same gear a a paladin and warrior but by far all cause they don't have a shield doesn't mean there isn't a way for them to tank.

[Nomeni]

They'll need some SERIOUS armor boosts, be it from talents or Runes. If they get those, then yeah, they'd be fine. What I'm saying is, that armor has to come from somewhere. Because really, parry/dodge/block doesn't matter if you can't take the hits to begin with.

Also, I'm going to stick with my previous statements that your comparison of plate wearing classes to druids make no sense whatsoever. Its not the gorram shield that matters in the first place! Its the gorram armor the shield gives! If a warrior or a paladin had as much armor as a bear did in dire bear, HELL YEAH they could tank, and tank anything they wanted too! But they don't. They have plate armor, and a shield. Almost a third of their armor value comes from shields. You can have all the life draining abilities and all the dodge/parry in the worlds but if you don't have enough armor to prevent getting two shot then theres not much use for you is there?

I'm confused where I'm losing you on this subject.

And yes, they probably will get some sick armor runes/talents. But thats beside the point. Unless they do, they wont raid tank.

[Karkarov]

Under the current game mechanics.... the big concern in high end "raid" tanking is this...

1: Are you crittable? This is a pure question of your defence value and modifiers that might effect it typically talent points.

2: How do you mitigate crushing blows? Thats why druids will never be standard main raid tanks. They can not reliably mitigate crushing blows. Warriors and paladins do that through blocking with thier shield.

Analyzing how to mitigate the crushing blows though... Parry works. However parry also resets your swing timer and gives you an effective "free swing" which is also why it is always the lowesr mitigation line with the least amount of gear designed to increase it. If it gets too high it is op, your tank is getting free swings all over the place!

Dodge works also but all tanks rely on taking damage to hold threat. Paladins need heals to get back mana, no damage no heals needed so no mana regen so no mana = no threat. Warriors and druids need rage which comes from taking hits... you dodge you didnt get hit so no rage and no free swing like in parry so no threat again. So dodge is a bad route because dodging generates no threat for you and typically isnt condusive to threat generation.

Shield blocking is ideal. You block so the crushing blow is mitigated into a normal hit, you still take damage so it still leads to a threat generating situation.

What does all this crap mean? Deathknights will be tanks they have already said so. However odds are high they will be niche tanks designed like paladins for aoe mob tanking or raw damage soaking like druids on pure melee mods. Or maybe they will have some massive strength against magic based mobs (few and far between). However the odds of them being raid main tanks.... highly unlikely. That doesnt mean they wont be able to handle a five man or perform some raid tanking.

[Xiphus]

I had the idea that Death Knights may mitigate damage by actually using their ebil spells using the rune system to debuff their target's damage power. I mean, that's very Death Knight-ish thing to do. Coupled with high armor and probably good parry and self buff using their spells again, they might just be able to make sure that their targets hit like a pansy, in their own unique way. While warriors, paladins and druids improve their abilities to take damage so their enemies hit them like pansies, Death Knights will actually MAKE their targets hit like a pansy.

I think that's very likely.

[Keeju]

I could see how it's going to be difficult for Niethan to accept Deathknights. Though, he has a crush on Keraph and wants to hug him all the time and Keraph is a Lawful Evil walking corpse! Perhaps if Keraph becomes a Deathknight, then Niethan will have an easier time dealing with it.

I think I remember him saying he was going to roll him as one.

It won't affect my characters pretty much.

[Karkarov]

There will never be a debuff system like that.

Why?

Because you apply the debuff there it is. It is on the boss affecting him. So why let the death knight tank it? Let the warrior step in with his superior mitigation AND the debuffs on the boss.

If runes do anything like that it will be purely in the form of self buffs not debuffs. They would have to be bonuses only the deathknight can benefit from.

PS: Druids are fine until you start real raiding. Amor is the weakest form of mitigation though also the easiest to get and the most used. If you didnt know there is a hard cap on armor value (I dont remember right now what it is for sure I think 20k or so) but after X value armor literally stops reducing damage. Also it is a diminishing return already. The higher it goes the less you get from an increase. I recently dropped around 250 armor and I saw a grand total of .3&#37; loss in damage reduction. To give you some perspective at the time 250 armor was roughly 2% of my total armor value. So dropping 2% of my armor total resulted in less than half of 1% actual damage reduction loss.

Both warriors and paladins can ultimately get near druid hp and armor levels after getting tier gear and both have superior all around mitigation. In the end a druid is a niche tank used for mobs dealing in high levels of pure physical damage, for example they are the best grull off tank because his hateful bolt is pure physical damage and can not be blocked, dodged, parried, or partially/fully resisted.

This isnt to bash the druid but more to point out every tank has a role. Paladins are the best aoe tanks thanks to multiple threat generating skills that are "passive" and the spell consecrate, druids are the best pure physical tanks thanks to highest armor and hp values, Warriors are the best boss tanks due to having the highest overall mitigation and the best long term single target threat gen.

[Roth'rili]

Reithan how you keep believing I am comparing the too is driving me insane. Stop thinking I am comapring to the two. All my posts have been poiting out how each class does their things differently! Druids have this cause they don't have that warriors have all pallys as Kar says can be pretty near warriors (though main prob is hp pool for pallies and block is meh hard for a pally to get complete avoidance). Please for the love of all that is holy stop comparing them yourself.

Druids need what they need to tank to make up for things they don't have, warriors and pallies have theirs and DKs will have theirs in SOME FORM. Case closed now stop

Edit - Back on subject I believe Roth if he doesn't become one *shifty eyes* will greatly distaste death knights. With their recent alliance with scourage and in his eyes the betrayal of the light he wont be able to forgive them so easily. He would show disrespect, first then respect their abilites as a asset and then try to reintroduce the light to the fallen warriors.

[Daedraug]

With their recent alliance with scourage

Scourage: the bravery granted to undead when they invoke the Will of the Forsaken.

:)

[Karkarov]

It is worth noting in the upcoming patch paladin default hp levels are increasing... as if they really needed it.

[Roth'rili]

It is worth noting in the upcoming patch paladin default hp levels are increasing... as if they really needed it.

*eye twitch, eye twitch* Most...resist...*eye twitch* You...so mean...you tempt the rant of Roth more! *bang head on keyboard*

[Roth'rili]

And its a funny misspelling I must keep! *nod nod*

[Daedraug]

*Checks thread title*

My rp concerns about death knights are pretty high. I have a hard enough time rp-ing with warlocks (all my freakin real life friends felt the need to play them though) so death knights aren't going to be any easier.

[Keraph]

I could see how it's going to be difficult for Niethan to accept Deathknights. Though, he has a crush on Keraph and wants to hug him all the time and Keraph is a Lawful Evil walking corpse! Perhaps if Keraph becomes a Deathknight, then Niethan will have an easier time dealing with it.

I think I remember him saying he was going to roll him as one.

It won't affect my characters pretty much.

Damn you woman, you gave it all away!

Nah, not really. I will be playing a DK version of Keraph, name already reserved (Keraph's last name), and I've got th lore all straight for it. As for Neith having a crush on Keraph, I think Dr. Cox said it best:

"Oh god, I'm gagging AND vomiting! .....I'm...gavomiting!" *runs off*

[Keraph]

My Death Knights name is saved.

It's Lascivious. And she'll be more pissed than ever.

Unless the class sucks ass.

Then she'll be REALLY pissed off XD

[Chikt]

I'm not looking forward to Death Knights so much (I can see them being the next Blood Elves in the overpopulation sense.) but I AM looking forward to the possible other hero classes that could result from RotLK. Not to mention the Taunka content.

I think I am not so concerned about the Lich King thing, I'm looking forward to Dio changing and developing upon entering Northrend. I can see the thin line that seperates him from Ayumu being removed altogether. So character and role-play wise I am really looking forward to it and the possible developments.

I am not looking forward to all the emo guys running around.

[Xiphus]

I'm not looking forward to Death Knights so much (I can see them being the next Blood Elves in the overpopulation sense.) but I AM looking forward to the possible other hero classes that could result from RotLK. Not to mention the Taunka content.

I think I am not so concerned about the Lich King thing, I'm looking forward to Dio changing and developing upon entering Northrend. I can see the thin line that seperates him from Ayumu being removed altogether. So character and role-play wise I am really looking forward to it and the possible developments.

I am not looking forward to all the emo guys running around.

Me, I look forward to the new siege system and the new PVP area, where war is everywhere. More job opportunities. I look forward to sabotaging siege weaponries and demolishing structures with subtlety.

[Leoren]

It is worth noting in the upcoming patch paladin default hp levels are increasing... as if they really needed it.

... What? Really? This is the first I've heard of this, where was this mentioned?

[Voojim]

Morgenstern just goes to where evil lurks and fights for the good cause. As he's said before;

"Ye point a' it, I shoot it."

Voojim...I've got no idea what he's going to think. He'll probably just drop a totem and dance.

[Roth'rili]

... What? Really? This is the first I've heard of this, where was this mentioned?

Its not default increasing really per say. They are just getting rid of weapon expertise in prot tree replacing it with a new "combat expertise". Which increases expertise by X amount (not sure) and hp by a wopping 10%. Now tanking paladins will have maybe shy or equal to warrior tanking health.

As far as default hp raising I don't think I read anything of that

[Karkarov]

Is it HP or stam? It should be 10% stam. If it isnt blizzard has alot of hate mail incoming from warriors and druids.

[Roth'rili]

Its stamina with talents prot paladins can get up to +16&#37; stam

[Karkarov]

Well then expect to see the wall of hate mail. Unless 6&#37; comes from some buff in which case who cares because if you can buff yourself you can buff the warrior and druid too.

[Anthek]

It's a talent in the Prot tree, which means not all paladins have it.

And, yes, health is a major concern for Protadins. Their gear has to use several other stats, which means they had to sacrifice HP and avoidance to be able to tank well.