Tauren/Dwarf Relation

[Chikt]

I've, for a long time, had a theory about Tauren and Dwarves being related. Not in the sense of blood. But Dwarves were created by the Titans, and Tauren Legend states they "rose from the Earth" in much the same way as Dwarves did.

Mists of Dawn:

Before the Age of Memory, the gentle Earthmother
breathed upon the golden mists of dawn. Where the
amber clouds came to rest, there were endless fields
of flowing wheat and barley. This was the basin of her
works - the great basket of life and hope.

The Earthmother's eyes shone down upon the lands she
had breathed into creation. Her right eye, An'she
(the sun), gave warmth and light to the land. Her
left eye, Mu'sha (the moon), gave peace and and
sleep to the stirring creatures of the dawning. Such
was the power of her gaze that the Earthmother closed
one dreaming eye for every turning of the sky. Thus,
her loving gaze turned day into night for the first
dawning of the world.

While the right eye shone down upon the golden dawn,
the Earthmother's gentle hands spread out across the
golden plains. Wherever the shadow of her arms passed,
a noble people arose from the rich soil. The Shu'halo
(the tauren) arose to give thanks and prayer to
their loving mother. There, in the endless fields of
dawn, the children of the earth swore themselves to
her grace and vowed to bless her name until the final
darkening of the world.

Of course, the Dwarves developed from the Earthen (http://www.wowwiki.com/Earthen).

Both the Tauren and the Dwarves have shared relatively stable relations despite the war, having open trade until tensions rose. One of the thing they also traded was knowledge of an art-Runemastery (http://www.wowwiki.com/Runemaster).


The traditions of the runemasters date back to the ancient time of the Titans, creators of runic magic. Their creation, the Dwarves, quickly mastered the mysteries of the runes taught to them. However, as generations passed, the dwarves forgot their heritage and lost all knowledge of runes and their hereditary powers.

Tauren in Kalimdor rediscovered the power of runes. An ancient race as well, the tauren remembered the myths of runecasting and revived interest in this nearly lost art. The dwarves that came to Kalimdor with Jaina Proudmoore's Alliance Expedition learned tauren runecasting techniques. Tauren and dwarves do not share good relations, but they were eager to share knowledge of runes and Titan myths.

When you complete Uldaman and get the platinum disks, where do you take them to of all places?

The Tauren Sages, of course.

Then of course there's Dwarves digging up Titan ruins everywhere near Tauren. Such as the Bael'Dun digsite under Mulgore itself.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r217/DMDyet/WoWScrnShot_101507_123244.jpg

Or the Resonite Cask in Stonetalon (http://www.wowwiki.com/Quest:Earthen_Arise), that summons an Earthen, Goggeroc (http://www.wowwiki.com/Goggeroc).

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r217/DMDyet/WoWScrnShot_101507_125143.jpg

Or the ruins in the Southern Barrens.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r217/DMDyet/WoWScrnShot_101507_124103.jpg

However the thing about these ruins is the snake. The snake makes them reminiscent of Trolls. The only thing is that trolls don't build up like the structures seen here. Given the fact that digging here would have had to started not long after the Horde and Alliance tensions cooled, it is odd that the Dwarves would risk bringing about war killing a whole Tauren tribe just dig up troll ruins of all things.

However, while there are only 5 Titan "halls", this does not cross out the possiblity of other Titan structures. The halls seem to be mostly geared towards the containment of Earthen. Interestingly enough however, one of these halls is actually within Maraudon and is named Terramok. It seems odd then that there would be no sign of earthen within Maraudon. And that the Tauren's main enemy in the games, the Centaur, should make their home there. It's interesting as a whole that there should be ruins and digsites everywhere around the Tauren rather than the Dwarves themselves.

And then there's Ulduar (http://www.wowwiki.com/Ulduar) up in Northrend. It will be interesting to see exactly what is uncovered there with the Ancient Tauren making their home on Nothrend soil.

[Raziel]

Most Tauren absolutely hate the Dwarves because they came in unannounced and just started setting up shop in Tauren Lands, massacring Tauren villages, and began boring into the ground, polluting the air and driving away, if not outright killing, any wildlife close to them.

Gann's story in Southern Barrens is a direct testimony of this.

Also, where the Dwarves tend to dig, they usually find Silithid and end up releasing hive networks out of Silithus and allow C'thun to expand the territory; 1000 Needles, Tanaris, and Feralas are testimony of this.

[Chikt]

Most Tauren absolutely hate the Dwarves because they came in unannounced and just started setting up shop in Tauren Lands, massacring Tauren villages, and began boring into the ground, polluting the air and driving away, if not outright killing, any wildlife close to them.

Gann's story in Southern Barrens is a direct testimony of this.

Dwarves have also warred amongst themselves despite their same roots. It doesn't cross out the possibility.


Also, where the Dwarves tend to dig, they usually find Silithid and end up releasing hive networks out of Silithus and allow C'thun to expand the territory; 1000 Needles, Tanaris, and Feralas are testimony of this.

The ruins in Tanaris are also Titan ruins, funnily enough.

[Sulajin]

Which leads to questioning the relations of the Sandfury to the Titans.

[Kaebora]

Its also important to note that, at least as I see it, the Dwarves of Aerie Peak (the Wildhammer) seem to be rather devoted to nature and keeping it the way its supposed to be. It's the Ironforge Dwarves (the Bronzebeard) that run around and dig stuff up and the Thelassian Dwarves (the Dark Iron) that summon huge elementals that end up causing humongous volcanoes and kill everything nearby. Perhaps some of the Dwarves are just misguided and forgot their love for the earth and nature? Or perhaps they value the actual earth (rock and mineral) more than the living part above it.

I think its a very viable theory, to be honest. But I also question where the trolls came from, too. They were obviously here, as Blizzard has said they were here before the Night Elves and Humans, so its possible the Titans had some hand in that too.

IMO, I think Ulduar will give us our Tauren roots. Maybe I'm just being over-optomistic, but that's just what I think. Maybe its because the Tauren are based off of North American tribes and therefore would come from the North of Kalimdor (Northrend). Maybe its because typically beings with lots of fur live in areas where the climate is colder (not always true, so there's a big argument against that). Or maybe its because I've always thought Northrend was cool and always hoped my favorite race spawned from there. Who knows? But I sure am excited to find out...

[Sulajin]

Then they'd be eskimos.

The Tauren are based on the plains indians of North America, and their geographic regions suit that, I feel.

[Raziel]

Trolls were before Tauren

Trolls and Buggies were first.

[Aquizit]

Old Gods --> Elemental Lords --> Silithid --> Dragons --> Trolls --> Tauren --> Centaur? --> Titans --> Sea Giants --> Earthen --> Night Elves --> High Elves --> Dwarves & Troggs --> Gnomes? --> Humans? (No Lore on where the humans first came from, just that they were there.) --> Orcs --> Scourge --> Blood Elves --> Forsaken --> Draenei

[Thalevia]

Tauren are based off the North American plains traditions and wouldn't have had those giant stone ruins. Even when you look at their modern stuff, it's all wood. They don't build with stone. Even the north american groups that had cities, the iroquois nation and the Cahokia area, built with wood not stone.

I would tell you the ruins in south barrens are troll. The snakes all but confirm it. Tauren would have come after the trolls and lived on top. It's a rather large hole and with lots of sediment covering over, those pillars might have been barely showing on the surface, the dwarves are just eager to declare anything old and made of rock Earthen made. Same way Europeans were quick to say the ruins in Ethiopia were obviously from some ancient European settlement when in fact the local groups built them.

[Skafloc]

Your placement of the Centaur is questionable ( which by your ? I think you also suspected)

Recall Maraudon lore. The centaur were believed to be the misbegotten offspring of Princess Theradras , an elemental spirit of the earth, and Zaetan, eldest offspring of Cenarius. Cenarius was in turn the child of Elune. Was Elune a Titan? From what I could gather that's debatable. She is an "Ancient" however. So that might also place the Titans further up the scale than you have them.

[Anthek]

Elune is not a Titan. A very powerful being, to be sure, but not one of the Aenir or the Vanir.

Also, the Titans were around loooooong before they even found Azeroth.

[Chikt]

Tauren are based off the North American plains traditions and wouldn't have had those giant stone ruins. Even when you look at their modern stuff, it's all wood. They don't build with stone. Even the north american groups that had cities, the iroquois nation and the Cahokia area, built with wood not stone.

You misunderstand me. I do not mean that these ruins were built by Tauren. I mean they were built by Titans.


I would tell you the ruins in south barrens are troll. The snakes all but confirm it. Tauren would have come after the trolls and lived on top. It's a rather large hole and with lots of sediment covering over, those pillars might have been barely showing on the surface, the dwarves are just eager to declare anything old and made of rock Earthen made. Same way Europeans were quick to say the ruins in Ethiopia were obviously from some ancient European settlement when in fact the local groups built them.

It's most definately possible that they are some ancient Troll ruins, but Trolls have never built upwards like that. Their buildings are very blocky, kept low to the ground rather than built unnecessarily upwards like the ruins in the barrens. But that's also the trolls that we know. It could possibly belong to some long forgotten Troll race that built like that. But the Snake is something very common to worship in Troll empires (I believe), mostly in the Jungle Trolls and Sandfury Trolls if memory serves me right. It is quite likely that the Barrens was once jungle.

HOWEVER. This is paying no attention to the artifact that was found in the ruins... The Tear of the Moons (http://www.wowwiki.com/Quest:The_Tear_of_the_Moons). An artifact that turns the quest giver you return it to into a Trogg... What would the Trolls be doing with a Titan artifact if those ruins were not, in fact, actually Titan in origin?

In the WarcraftRPG books (Horde Players Guide or HPG in paticular), Bael Modan is listed as Titan ruins. (http://wowwiki.com/Bael_Modan)

It's also to be noted that the ruins were actually, apparently, slightly unearthed before the Dwarves arrived. As the local Tauren-the Stonespire tribe-considered the lands around it as holy in nature.


The dwarves and gnomes suffer constant attacks from the Horde, especially nearby tauren from Mulgore. Bael Modan was once next to a tauren village, but in conflicts between the dwarves and tauren (caused by the dwarves excavating for Titan artifacts in land the local tauren considers holy) most of the tauren were killed or driven off of their ancestral lands. Their old village is now torn apart by dwarven digging machines. Gann Stonespire, a tauren who frequently wanders the roads nearby, tried to reach a diplomatic resolution, but failed; he now seeks revenge by sending Horde adventurers to fight the dwarves.


IMO, I think Ulduar will give us our Tauren roots. Maybe I'm just being over-optomistic, but that's just what I think. Maybe its because the Tauren are based off of North American tribes and therefore would come from the North of Kalimdor (Northrend). Maybe its because typically beings with lots of fur live in areas where the climate is colder (not always true, so there's a big argument against that). Or maybe its because I've always thought Northrend was cool and always hoped my favorite race spawned from there. Who knows? But I sure am excited to find out...

It was always my thought that back before the Sundering, Northrend was connected to Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms it was all one super-continent and that is how the Tauren became seperated. Eskimo's and North American Indians are closely related. I believe that further South of the Eskimo's there were Indian tribes based out of Canada that were even MORE alike the North American Indians. This could be the likeness. But it's not to say that the Tauren of Mulgore sprouted off the Taunka of Northrend or even vice versa. If the tribes were spread out at the time of the sundering, that would explain the changes over time. Tauren adapted to Mulgore, Taunka to Northrend.

[Anthek]

The snake-like figures in Titan ruins are depictions of some of the servants of the Old Gods that they defeated. It translated into troll architecture because Hakkar was one of those same beings.

[Sulajin]

Even the north american groups that had cities, the iroquois nation and the Cahokia area, built with wood not stone.


Most all native American groups had cities. They built with mud. Wooo! Mud!

Ahem, anyways. To say that the Trolls never build upwards is, I believe, a little misleading. Look at ZG, there are some multi storied buildings to be found in it's ruins.

[Chikt]

Most all native American groups had cities. They built with mud. Wooo! Mud!

Ahem, anyways. To say that the Trolls never build upwards is, I believe, a little misleading. Look at ZG, there are some multi storied buildings to be found in it's ruins.

But not giant, pointless poles.

[Ryoku]

The WotLK site says theres a Tauren relative called the Taunka. Look up the Borean Tundra section.

So, there's still hope for your favourite race, Kaebora.

By the way, in Troll lore, the Night Elves are said to have once been Trolls. I think this would make sense due to their slightly smilular coloring, and how both races have a tall height.

[Raziel]

Old Gods --> Elemental Lords --> Silithid --> Dragons --> Trolls --> Tauren --> Centaur? --> Titans --> Sea Giants --> Earthen --> Night Elves --> High Elves --> Dwarves & Troggs --> Gnomes? --> Humans? (No Lore on where the humans first came from, just that they were there.) --> Orcs --> Scourge --> Blood Elves --> Forsaken --> Draenei

Technically, since Draenei and Eredar are the same thing....
OY me fellows
Oy

[Thalevia]

Most all native American groups had cities. They built with mud. Wooo! Mud!

Ahem, anyways. To say that the Trolls never build upwards is, I believe, a little misleading. Look at ZG, there are some multi storied buildings to be found in it's ruins.

Mud is not stone. And lots of people built with mud. The birthplace of civilization(as we regard it) was built with mudbrick! (and stone, but mudbrick was cheap and easy to make)

Back on topic. Dwarves are invasive little buggers eager to claim anything and everything as their heritage. I honestly think it wouldn't matter if something was obviously troll in origin, the dwarves would twist it to be their own. I am pretty damn sure if they could swing it, they would claim the various troll cities as former titan strongholds that the trolls are squatting in.


But not giant, pointless poles.

There is no such thing as pointless architecture, it all had a reason or a purpose. Falling back on an old archaeological standing, it's cultic dammit! You assume pointless when really you and the dwarves have no clue because it's missing the cloth and wood and other degradable bits that could tell us what they are. No culture builds something that fucking huge without it having a point.

And just because the troll cities now tend to be spawling mazes doesn't mean they didn't build pillar architecture in the past. Look at all the night elf ruins scattered about, they look nothing like the modern versions. There are hints of the past glory in the modern stuff, but it's barely there.

We don't live in round stone houses with reed and mud roofs with 30cm sunken plastered floors anymore afterall.

Poor Tauren caught in the middle of it all. *loves the tauren*

I would just like to point out, the dwarves are the worst archaeologists I have ever seen. Glorified pot hunters is what they are.

[Kaebora]

It was always my thought that back before the Sundering, Northrend was connected to Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms it was all one super-continent and that is how the Tauren became seperated. Eskimo's and North American Indians are closely related. I believe that further South of the Eskimo's there were Indian tribes based out of Canada that were even MORE alike the North American Indians. This could be the likeness. But it's not to say that the Tauren of Mulgore sprouted off the Taunka of Northrend or even vice versa. If the tribes were spread out at the time of the sundering, that would explain the changes over time. Tauren adapted to Mulgore, Taunka to Northrend.

That's more or less the point I was trying to make, except...well, you did it much, much better. =P

--

Thelavia, you make a good point. Talking about real ancient civilizations, very rarely were there 'pointless' structures, because structures were much more difficult to make than they are today. You could argue that the Egyptian pyramids were pointless, yes, but to them they obviously had great significance. So, by that reasoning, I agree with Thelavia. Just because the pillars seem pointless, does not mean they are at all.

And, Raziel, Aquizit's list seems to be a list of Azeroth's denizens in sequential order... Eredar don't fit on there, because they're part of the Burning Legion. While you can argue they HAVE lived on Azeroth, they weren't really planning on being permanent residents or anything (they were more looking to torch the place and move on, really). So, I think its safe for him to include the Draenei at the end of the list since the Exodar doesn't look like its gonna be moving anytime soon.

[Aquizit]

I should take the Titans out though, I guess...

[Sulajin]

But not giant, pointless poles.

They're not pointless! They're supportive of a since-caved in roof!