Tauren Content

[Chikt]

So I was having a discussion with some of the guys in SanctuaryOOC last night about the severe lack of Tauren content, and while many people believe I was just QQing or that other races are worst off I decided to bring the discussion here anyway.

It all really started with Jeedup coming into the channel and asking Niethan if he'd seen the new Troll themed armor. I was already in a fairly bad mood for reasons that shan't be spoken and let out a textual "blech" about the over-indulgence of Trolls and Night Elves when it came to lore and content in World Of Warcraft. It eventually turned into a pretty good discussion about the lack of Tauren content.

That isn't of course to say that there isn't Tauren content out there, but the larger quest lines that are a dime a dozen for other races, the armor or weapons with a "Tauren theme", and just lore in general are all severely lacking.

There's one Tauren themed weapon (http://thottbot.com/i25836) and (finally) some Tauren Themed Druid Tier armor (http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:ThunderheartArmor.jpg). Beyond that though the Tauren themed gear content ends.

What could be argued as being the "main" Tauren quest line surrounding the Grimtotem ends abruptly in Thousand Needles with no explanation, leading to an unexplained resurgence of them in Feralas where you simply kill their ranks to get a bounty. Their ties to the Forsaken/Scourge are never fully explained, and the questline never really feels like it's getting off the ground in telling the story of why there's this segregation in the arguably very united Tauren.

Somebody pointed out that they believe Gnomes are worse off than Tauren. Gnomes have always been in the background with the Dwarves in previous Warcraft games and do have a rich background of lore. They also have an instance all about them with several quest lines involving the story of the lost city of Gnomeregon. That isn't to say that Gnomes do not also have it bad, but there is far more gnome-related content in Warcraft to speak of, and lore surrounding it. Not to mention a whole profession tree dedicated to them.

At the basest level, Tauren content and stories of the Tauren history and how they came where they are today are far and few between. A lot of people argued that the reason for that is that Tauren are so nomadic that there wouldn't be any Tauren cities around or old Tauren villages much in the same way as Trolls. However, the arrival of the Taunka (http://www.wowwiki.com/Taunka) would suggest otherwise. Tauren were nomadic out of necessity with the Centaur on their doorstep. Once the Centaur were taken out of the picture, the Tauren immediately built a city and grouped together in a very un-nomadic fashion. As such, it could be said that they are not nomads by nature as they so easily adjusted to being the opposite.

Tauren are also one of the eldest races on Azeroth, on par with Trolls, and so it is not hard to imagine that Blizzard could write in a story about Tauren and Trolls clashing in some far-off war. If Tauren truly are nomadic by nature, this is all the more reason FOR there to be content about them-they'd be far more spread out all over the place and so there'd be many more old stories of wandering tribes of Tauren.

Which brings me to my final gripe. Tauren lend themselves very well to a very interesting themed outdoor instance. It has been shown that they seem to like high places by where they build their villages and towns. It isn't so far fetched to imagine, then, an instance surrounding the Grimtotem tribe up on top of some high mesas, with the dropoff from said mesas acting as the aztec-like wall that Blizard uses to keep troll instances enclosed.

Maraudon could have had more Tauren themes to it what with the long running conflict with the Centaur, but it was blown over for a more Night-Elf/Cenarius theme.

Lets not even bring up the Emerald Nightmare, though. Because you just know that's going to be all about the Night Elves.

But hopefully with the arrival of the Taunka, and more instances based on the Titans, we will be getting more Tauren lore come Wrath of the Lich King.

[Raziel]

Uhh, that totem weapon model was in the game in v1.0 Dio.

It was called the Hand of Antu'Sul and a drop from the "Basilisk Boss" Antu'Sul in Zul'Farrak. Most people just skipped him because he was hard as fuck compared to the other bosses. He dropped a one-handed totem mace that proc'd thundershock warrior skill.

I used it throughout my 40's since it dropped my first kill and I snagged it way early. The 40's Basin games were mine because of the proc. I could interrupt everyone.

[Chikt]

Uhh, that totem weapon model was in the game in v1.0 Dio.

Did I ever say it was recent or wasn't in the game in 1.0? Heh. I'm just linking the weapon I know that uses the model. I couldn't remember the name of the ZF one.

[Darkblade]

There's also a Tauren-only weapon you can get for beating up the goblins in Mulgore.

[Raziel]

Did I ever say it was recent or wasn't in the game in 1.0? Heh. I'm just linking the weapon I know that uses the model. I couldn't remember the name of the ZF one.

You said there was just one tauren-themed weapon, and linked something non-Antu'Sul.

[Chikt]

There's also a Tauren-only weapon you can get for beating up the goblins in Mulgore.

Not that I can find...


You said there was just one tauren-themed weapon, and linked something non-Antu'Sul.

It's the same model.

[Kaebora]

I, too, agree that the lack of Tauren content is disturbing.

Personally, my character has grown up in Feralas, traveled with his tribe through Desolace, Stonetalon, the Barrens, and finally to Thousand Needles out of necessity (to avoid the centaur). In Thousand Needles, his tribe is taken in by Grimtotem and eventually they die off (in battles, helping defend the Grimtotem), leaving my characters left. Note that, as hard as I try, I cannot find *ANY* information about:

-> when the Tauren came to Feralas, why they are there in the first place, and how the Tauren living in the forests are different than those living on the plains (there absolutely has to be a cultural difference, otherwise it would make no sense)

-> when Darkcloud Pinnacle was founded (I don't even need a date, just a timeframe!), what its current dealings are with the scourge (and if there were any ties with the burning legion before/after that), and how groups of them mysteriously have holdings in Feralas and Stonetalon (which really doesn't make sense, 'cuz how'd they get through Desolace if its basically the centaur home base? - were they there before the centaur attacks?)

-> is it even plausible that a Tauren tribe would travel all over Kalimdor, or were they typically known to avoid certain types of landforms (some seem comfortable with trees, some without)?

-> how do their tribes even work?! can I actually go and make one up, or were there a set number of tribes at one point (like the Trolls, Dwarves, Humans, and Orcs) that branched off into other ones?

Compare/contrast this with RPing as any other race in the game:

-> IMO, Undead are probably the most versitile, since you can choose to play off of what they've become (delving into scourge/burning legion lore), or play off of what they used to be (utilizing elf/human/whatever else lore).

-> Humans and Orcs are probably next easiest since the entire WarCraft series starts with them. We know all about the history of the Orcs (there is an entire book with them on Draenor, and 2 books about Thrall and his exploits, plus 3 games detailing their movement around Azeroth [plus one book about one of the games]) and the Humans are no different (we understand their movement around Azeroth, starting with Strom, and finishing now with Stormwind, Gilneas, Kul Tiras, and Theramore [did I miss one?]).

-> After that, you have the Dwarves, who have 2 entire instances devoted to the War of the Three Hammers, plus many instances involving their ancestors the Earthen.

-> Elves are also easy - they have an entire trilogy that explains the Sundering, and they played a pivotal role in WC3. The Blood Elves are just as easy because their lore coincides with Night Elven lore up to a point, and then branches off to deal with Human and Troll lore.

-> And Trolls also have a wealth of knowledge, starting with Blizzard's explanation of the Zandalari, splitting into the Gurubashi and the Amani, and eventually - through combat with the Quiraji and Night Elves and Blood Elves (if you're Amani) - becoming rather scarce and in some cases even reverting to an uncivilized state.

-> That leaves us with the Gnomes and the Draenei. Draenei have a book about them (with the Orcs) and an entire expansion pack chock full of Draenei goodies (though, arguably not enough). And the Gnomes... I agree with Dio. They're rather under-represented too, but at least we know of their Engineering tie-ins through the Goblins and the fall of their city through the Gnomeregan instance.

What do the Tauren get? A tiny little section of the Orc Campaign in WC3, a starting area, and a city. There are a few okay quests, like the Grimtotem ones, that sort of get into Tauren lore a little bit but... C'mon, seriously. For (IMO) one of the most unique races (granted they are based off of Minotaurs) to any MMO or, practically, any fantasy RPG, they are grossly underrepresented in lore. Especially since its clear they've been around as long as, if not longer than Trolls and Night Elves and Earthen.

But, there IS a glimmer of hope with the coming introduction of Northrend. It's always been my theory that the Tauren started in Northrend, and it's time to see if my theory pans out. I hope the Tuskarr and Taunka help give us a better look at Tauren roots, and I really hope they'll be releasing a Titan-related dungeon about the origins of the Tauren - or perhaps an old Tauren/Taunka city, much like Dire Maul or something for the Night Elves.


*** As a side note, is anyone else rather upset they can't play a Furbolg? Coolest race, hands down (with nearly comparable lore to the Tauren), and I can't play 'em. In fact, I'm horde, so I don't even get an item to shape-shift into one. Boo. =(

EDIT: I added some boldness and line-breaks in places to make this easier to read (I hope). Sorry about the HUGE post - I had no idea I'd been typing for that long. O.O

[Chikt]

I've actually always had the theory that Tauren were created by the Titans in much the same way as the Dwarves were. Hence the Tauren interest and closeness to Titan structures. Like the one in Mulgore and the one in the Barrens. Tauren interest in Uldum with the quest that doesn't follow through is odd. And I personally put my bet down that that "rising from the Earth" was a literal term in their history.

[Kaebora]

I would agree with that, but somehow I've always pegged that stuff happening in Northrend (before Sundering, obviously). Maybe its just because they're based off of North American tribes or something, but that's what I've always theorized.

[Rannoch]

I always thought the tauren were closer to the Old Gods than the titans... being that their Earth Mother largely resembles Therazane the stone mother.

[Leyujin]

"lol trolls only haf a village to live in"

Unknown to mortal WoW players, Troll enthusiasts conferred with Blizzard and reached an accord where Trolls gave up a starting city in return for oodles of Troll-based instances, armor and weapons. In the beginning it seemed as if this choice was ill-conceived, as we had to settle with Sen'jin as the only proud residence of Horde Trolls, but today we stand vindicated.

IN YOUR FACE
TROLLS RULE

[Okhu]

You damn trolls! -fistshake!-

/green with orcish envy

......OH WAIT....I have Blackrock Spire...and Hellfire Citadel....and all kinds of oodles of things... I have nothing to be jealous about. :3

[Abric]

What could be argued as being the "main" Tauren quest line surrounding the Grimtotem ends abruptly in Thousand Needles with no explanation, leading to an unexplained resurgence of them in Feralas where you simply kill their ranks to get a bounty. Their ties to the Forsaken/Scourge are never fully explained, and the questline never really feels like it's getting off the ground in telling the story of why there's this segregation in the arguably very united Tauren.


I remember in '05 that they wanted to bring this and the King of Stormwind questline up to snuff and complete it... but they never did.

They are making quite a few changes with old content, and hopefully at some point they bring a lot of this stuff to bear.

Though, you may have to wait until they run out of expansion ideas (Northrend, Emerald Dream) and they start revisiting a lot of the shit they stopped doing (Grimtotem, King of Stormwind, Gilneas, Ulman.)

Back in the day, Blizzard certainly were dick hard when it came to elves. I think that is changing, and we'll see some interest stuff in Northrend, I'm sure.

[Solenev]

Back in the day, Blizzard certainly were dick hard when it came to elves. I think that is changing, and we'll see some interest stuff in Northrend, I'm sure.

I think they know what most people will play. And most server populations will show that their highest numbers are Night Elves for Alliance and suddenly Blood Elves for Horde. People love pointy ears and pert titties.

I've noticed the same thing Dio. There is little in the way of anything for the Tauren. All their villages are barely villages, more stopping off points, and for the longest time the quests in Stonetalon were busted or bugged. Thunder Bluff is one of the best cities, but they designed the Chief to be easily killed and has been on several occasions on our server -- even Jaina Proudmoore seems more difficult.

I can see that they did intend to circle a few quest lines back to Tauren lands or give them a Tauren hook. Usually a quest line that would end in Ironforge or with a dwarf ends with a Tauren Horde side. I know the one out of *spits* Uldaman *spits* seems to tie the Tauren to the Dwarves, but really I think it's a cheap way for Blizzard to use a similar quest line for the Alliance as well as Horde.

Y'know... I read your topic as "Tauren Contest" and thought maybe you were going to be running a contest about creating Tauren Content or Stories. That might be just it. If the content isn't there... why not make the concept? Think out what the High Mesa instance would involve, which levels it would cover, what the bosses would be capable of doing, how the fighting would work. Make it more interesting than the Quillboars in RFK or RFD. Write up the possible loot table for the instance. Put in some lore.

Then submit it to Blizzard. You never know.

[Fallacy]

There's more Tauren content coming in 2.3, with the Dustwallow revamp. The Grimtotem will have a village there, now.

[EnheilRas]

Or how about the Arson Questlines in Dustwallow Marsh? The burnt inn just at the borderline with the Barrens. That just up and ends just as you are starting to figure it was all a plot by Onyxia to ruin the truce between Theramoore and the Horde by making them blame the other for it. The interesting part of the questlines are the fact that you are actually seeing the Theramore Guards rebel and schism.

[Raziel]

So wait.

We'l have Grimtotem, Ogres, Goblins, and Humans, with the Black Dragonflight AND Nat Pagle?!

[Darkblade]

People love pointy ears
I don't!

and pert titties.
Okay, I do. T.T

[Chikt]

People love pointy ears and pert titties.

Hah! I like neither! So I am an alien!

[Jeedup]

Tauren content in Warctaft 3 seemed more lively and vivid than whats present in WoW in my opinion. They were strong, even though they were spread thin, and they were noble, not going: "ZOMG greenskinz! KILL EM!", when Thrall and Grom came on them, and togther smacked around some stinky centaur to run home to their horsey mommas. I loved having Tauren units in my armies, and they seemed more shamanistic than even the Orcs, and I still think that. They have such an obvious resemblence to Native Americans, from various tribes, and their is so much that they could do with yet.

Yet they dont, and that makes me a sand panda....





I still like pie though....

[Sanrin]

Reason why taurens dont have lore based instances? They're boring.

Sorry Dio, I love Mulgore, and I think that peronally those cow people have more heart and emotion designed into them then most other plotlines in this game. However what the hell would they fight against? They have their home, their pride, no one aside from the dwarves is spitting on their dignity...and even that would make only a mildly interesting battleground. Imagine fighting through a maze of outdoor and indoor 'sites' as part of a team based territories map. At the end either the Tauren Elite Cowz get the site and reclaim it for the earth or the Dwarf Digger Mofos win and we get to dig more.

Aside from that, can you imagine creating instanced content for them? It'd be like Uldaman, and we all know how fun that is to run. First few times? Fun, and engaging. After that? Horrible. Too long, too spread out and after the final bombshell was dropped there was little to revisit there. Other instances equally large such as Strath, Scholo kept you going back for more with various factions, quests, etc etc. Now you need to consider that Blizzard is taking the 'lez make instances shorter' route...look at the Terrokar instances and how they're designed, much shorter, more focused.

Sorry dio, but until Blizz adds a whole new race of Tauren (just like they are right now) I cant see your race becoming interesting enough to get more active instanced based lore. Even Cenarion Circle is done for now that AQ is over. We can only hope the Argent Dawn gets their rocks off at making us kill a trillion more undead while continuing their war!

[Maegannon]

Oh I can forsee a ugly head rearing of CC rep bars for the emerald nightmare instance/world(?)

"You didn't run AQ? HA.. I feel sorry for you then, go kill some bugs for 23894727346827364 years and maybe, MAYBE you'll be able to enter the nightmare!" - Blizzard in the future.

[Thalevia]

Oh I can forsee a ugly head rearing of CC rep bars for the emerald nightmare instance/world(?)

"You didn't run AQ? HA.. I feel sorry for you then, go kill some bugs for 23894727346827364 years and maybe, MAYBE you'll be able to enter the nightmare!" - Blizzard in the future.

Nah they will do something like Cenarion Expedition only you'll start hated and have to work your way to friendly to prove to the "Sleeping Cenarions" you want to help. The NPC's will be the corrupted spirits of sleeping druids that just kind of hang out near the entrance to the dream.

And you'll need a special item with a low drop rate to even see the spirits!

[Raziel]

Oooh you make it hurt so good Sanrin.

Next time though, you gotta put some stank on it.

[Amoola]

OK, I'm coming into this pretty late from the looks of things but here it goes.

From playing a Tauren as my main and trying to RP one here is what I've seen. Please pardon as I go through the many rambling that have been floating around my brain...

You don't have to have an instance to get a lot of information about the history. Hell, I'd just settle for better history on the main website. Worst case scenario just give us the info we need to RP with. Giving better information in game would be nice for those (not me) who don't go scouring around for world history.
I get the feeling (and maybe one of these days we'll find out if I'm right or not) that when it comes to the tribes that the tribes have a hierarchy that is worked out with in the tribe, then the race has it's hierarchy that is worked out via the hierarchies of the tribes.
What I would *love* to get my hands on is what is up with the whole you're a Grim totem or your not a Grimtotem deal is. Are the Grimtotems the nasty bastards and skeletons hiding in the Tauren closet? I mean from what little I've gathered about the current head of the Grimtotems, she is one hell of an old battle ax. Did she off her mate to take power over the tribe? What is her thing with the forsaken? Did the forsaken offer to teach the Grimtotem's dark magic or something? I'm willing to bet there is one hell of a story there, but, what is it...

Currently the story that I have partially decided to go with, that partially evolved from a talk another Tauren player and I had about whether to go Grimtotem or not. All the Grimtotems look a hell of a lot alike, it's like Nazi germany with the blonde hair and blue eyes! I don;t think that I've really seen that anywhere else. And, please correct me if I'm wrong on that!
But, I digress...
With my character I've taken the track that she is basically a bastard from (basically) and affair between a Grimtotem and a non Grimtotem. She is kind of stuck in that gray area. she isn't a Grimtotem but she isn't really another tribe either. She's been been raised as that unwanted foster child.
But, my problem with it is, is that how the two sides really feel? Are the Grimtotem's really as elitist as they come off? And are the usually warm and welcoming Taurens in general really that pissed off with the Grimtotems? And if there is bad blood between the two sides what the hell caused it. At least the Tauren players should know.

I completely agree that the Grimtotem quests need some serious ironing out. They could be so informative and just awesome for Tauren player's in why we are going around killing our own kind. It just doesn't feel right with out a good reason. With trolls there is the feel of kill of be killed. Come on they have all that in fighting between groups. That one is pretty easy to rationalize. But, with the Tauren it is not that simple and it should just be marked down to that.

Some cool ass kicking Tauren armor and weapons would be cool but I doubt that they would make or break the game.

One thing that has me thinking about these things as of late is a talk that happened in guild chat over the weekend. One person was talking about how the Tauren had to be a very young civilization since they obviously didn't have a rogue mentality. A couple of us argued that the only reason that the Tauren were nomadic was because of the centaurs. The histories are very unclear as ti if the Tauren were settled before that or not. But, it made sense that they would become nomadic in order to try and stay alive instead until the time came that they could settle back down.

Have to deal with other things. I'll see if I can form up the rest of my thoughts on this later.

[Sanrin]

Hahaha raz, i seem to be the one who shits on the coats of the pve vs lore party. Taurens need lore as much gnomes do. Cept I guess even Gnomes got one instance, maybe to make up for it Taurens got their own zone? Either way, I dont think theres really too much to dive into in their world. They're old, yes, and they're wise...yes. But aside from what couple twists and turns that are already in the game, how far could that develop it? There arent enough Tauren to make up a new evil faction (that wouldnt be shitkickable by more three people at lv 40) and in the end their ways are pretty clean cut. Maybe thats why they added the Arctic Cow in the next chapter of WoW, because there really is no way as the Taurens currently are right now for them to go further in storyline. Humans, Orcs, Forsaken, Dwarves and even the Trolls are poised for a new chapter in their lives...Blood Elves and Draeni really just got here so what the fuck arent they ready for? The Burning Crusade is 100% their history. They got enough.

What about gnomes? Im pretty sure they did more then make helicopters in the first couple Warcraft games. They have a city two feet from Ironforge after all, doesnt that mean they were there before/around the same time as the Dwarves (since Dwarves enjoy property control).

[EnheilRas]

I know everything about the Grimtotem Tribe, Magatha, the Earthen Council, and their links to the Apothecary Society of Lordearon.

yupyup.

[Amoola]

If you truly know and aren't just yanking my tail, then please enlighten those of us who are guessing at it all. :P

[EnheilRas]

Afraid now is not the time.

However, I do have two words for you:

Azshara Tablets.

[Amoola]

I must admit that I have spent very little time there with my Tauren. Had friend pulling me in other directions to catch up. I think I will be hitting there soon with one of my alts.

[Aiyan]

Hey, just thought I'd interject here. When in doubt, wiki it out:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Tauren

Compared to the night elf lore section, there is NOT a great deal, but look at it this way; it offers you a LOT more flexibility. It allows you to invent a more personalised background for your character, so long as it doesn't contradict other sources. WoW Wikipedia isn't exactly the most RELIABLE of sources, but it's a great overview of the knowledge presented both in game and out of game. Be careful not to fall for the lies, though :P

Tauren may not have a lot of content, but not many people know that they fought beside the night elves against the Burning Legion in the War of the Ancients (most of you guys probably do though). If you squeeze out whatever lore you can, you are able to get a decent racial background, and the rest is up to you really. It may look like a bad thing to some people, but in many ways, it's in fact a benefit.

[EnheilRas]

One thing is background, and that's fine and dandy. The problem she is having is currently present in-game content.

Besides Camp Feralas, Camp Taurahe, the Crossroads, Ghostwalker Point, the 1000 Needles, and Mulgore, there's not a lot of Tauren places.

But like I said. There's an Orc woman in Valormar in Azshara that works for the Shattered Hand. She has a quest involving Tablets. Go do that and make some connections between the Elder Crone and her true allies.

[Evanthe]

Hey, Tauren and troll-lovers rejoice!

Here's a quote from Jefferey Kaplan:

Jeffrey Kaplan: Northrend has some great story development in it. Humans, dwarves, tauren, and trolls will all have their storylines developed further. Of course, all of the other races will share the spotlight as well, but those four have an especially strong presence throughout the icy continent.From this article. (http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/2640-World-of-Warcraft-Interview-with-Lead-Designer-Jeffrey-Kaplan)

(bolding mine)

[Sanrin]

YEA MORE HUMAN CONTENT! FUK YEA!

[Qabian]

Haha, Sanrin! :D

Trolls get so much love. Dang. I suppose that's because they're awesome.

[Sanrin]

Ill say this...

For as awesome as troll and tauren content will be, whenever they decide to make another gnome instance your pants will be rocked right into oblivion.

[Celuna]

Some of the new quests in Dustwallow involve the Grimtotem. And the killing of an RAS envoy ^^

[Amoola]

I'm going to have to check out dustwallow again. When I went in there right after the patch nothing was showing up for me. I'm really curious.

[Rannoch]

The new Grimtotem camp is pretty cool. Not a lot there though... still fun to see. Wish it was a little bigger...

*is still wondering when he gets to use a totem...*

[Yichimet]

Hey, tauren lovers everywhere: can anyone vet/cite this information for me? Specifically regarding Grimtotem being clan-less until recently?

http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/03/13/know-your-lore-the-grimtotems/

No idea where it came from, in game or out, and if true kind of fucks with everything I've been writing for three or so years, heh.

[Ignas]

Hey, tauren lovers everywhere: can anyone vet/cite this information for me? Specifically regarding Grimtotem being clan-less until recently?

http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/03/13/know-your-lore-the-grimtotems/

No idea where it came from, in game or out, and if true kind of fucks with everything I've been writing for three or so years, heh.

The Grimtotem name has been around for a long time. However, it was only until recently that they actually banded together to form the Grimtotem Clan. That article seems accurate to me.

[Yichimet]

Do you have any citations for that, though? I've been looking for this information for a long time and never found any in any of the game lore or RPG books.

edit: Possibly from the WoW comics that I didn't buy because I thought the art was bad and I get SO. FUCKING. TIRED. of reading about amnesiac heroes?

[Ignas]

Do you have any citations for that, though? I've been looking for this information for a long time and never found any in any of the game lore or RPG books.

I was going by what I read some time ago. Can't remember where I got it. I think it was a post on the RP forums.

I went to WoWWiki (Wiki = All-knowing ;)) to see what I could find.


While the Grimtotem name is generations old, the clan as an organization has existed only for a few years.

Grimtotem Clan on WoWWiki (http://www.wowwiki.com/Grimtotem_Clan) First paragraph, seventh sentence.

That's all that it says. The entire paragraph is marked as cited from the Horde Player's Guide RPG reference book. I don't have a copy, and I can't find a copy online to see if that statement is correct.

[Yichimet]

Ok. I never trust anything I read at WoWWiki, but I don't have the Horde PG, so that gives me a starting point. Thanks dude! If this is true I (and Yemana!) may be in for some revisionist history lessons.

[Fhenrir]

Hrm... I may have to do a little tidying up of Fhen's history if this is true as well...

[Yichimet]

I'll let you know when I get a hold of the Horde Player's Guide--avast ye, raise the mast! and all that.

Although truly, it doesn't have to change TOO too much for me--Yichimet can still come from a Grimtotem group in the Thousand Needles, they'd just have been associated with another tribe until Thunder Bluff's founding and etc. etc. It shouldn't take too much toying with. I've been breaking lore with him the whole time anyway, what with his associating with orcs and trolls and all that.

[Netharius]

A bit of a thread necro, but none-the-less:
I had higher expectations of the Tauren content in Duskwallow. It continues the Grimtotem questline, but it still feels to me as if it drops off too quickly and explains little.

Does anyone share this opinion?

[RavenReverend]

I honestly think Neth, that they're trying to set up for the next expansion, which I'm pretty convinced will be the Emerald Dream/Nightmare. They've been dropping little hints all along about what this rebel group of Tauren are up to, so I'm sure we'll see what exactly is rotting in Thunderbluff.