Mmm, delicious AV...?

[Broxigan]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2215842565&sid=1&pageNo=1

Looks promising but at the same time, it seems like there could be shorter AVs. I like the fact they are forcing more PVP and less of a "OMG RUN TO THE BOSS LAWLZ". It will be interesting, but, think about this:

The more peeps you kill, the more their reinforcements drop, right? Well, what if you have a REALLY good AV team, take all of the graveyards, then camp the front of the cave, killing them everytime they pop out? XD Graveyard camping at its finest.

I may actually have to attempt a PTR for once and check this out when it comes to play.

/discuss

[Keraph]

Interesting changes.....more on this later.

EDIT: After reading through it thoroughly a few times, I have the following to say:

Zang.

Looks to be more fun.

[Malakim]

So they are taking more NPCs out of AV and expecting that to make it more balanced? Now it's just going to be even more of a super race.

[Solenev]

Maybe I'm looking at this with the wrong attitude, but this sounds .... meh. The Lieutenants were not much of an issue because they could be dealt with and also dragged to others if you were solo. My problem was always the annoying amount of NPCs running around the Alliance base in comparison to NONE of our NPCs running around the Alliance in our base. Nothing annoyed me more than when you pulled a marshal, you'd have JoeSchmo the Blacksmith running around beating on the healers.

Also, our towers suck. There I said it. The towers by Drek'thar are dumb. There are four archers and you have to be on the right side for them to shoot you. They won't shoot you if you're capping a flag because you're behind the magic wall of papery hide that I've been one-shot by a rogue through.

Capping an Alliance tower in their awesome Dwarf bunkers? You actually have to hide around the corner because as you run in you're shot in the face by all their archers. There's only ONE spot that you won't get hit, but they won't despawn because you're still in combat because they're still attempting to kick your ass though you're hidden from their view. Five minutes of that.

Horde side for the Alliance? What archers?

[Broxigan]

Maybe I'm looking at this with the wrong attitude, but this sounds .... meh. The Lieutenants were not much of an issue because they could be dealt with and also dragged to others if you were solo. My problem was always the annoying amount of NPCs running around the Alliance base in comparison to NONE of our NPCs running around the Alliance in our base. Nothing annoyed me more than when you pulled a marshal, you'd have JoeSchmo the Blacksmith running around beating on the healers.

Also, our towers suck. There I said it. The towers by Drek'thar are dumb. There are four archers and you have to be on the right side for them to shoot you. They won't shoot you if you're capping a flag because you're behind the magic wall of papery hide that I've been one-shot by a rogue through.

Capping an Alliance tower in their awesome Dwarf bunkers? You actually have to hide around the corner because as you run in you're shot in the face by all their archers. There's only ONE spot that you won't get hit, but they won't despawn because you're still in combat because they're still attempting to kick your ass though you're hidden from their view. Five minutes of that.

Horde side for the Alliance? What archers?

Hmm, yeah. I forgot all about the archer/tower thing. I've played on both sides of AV and I must say, Alliance does have it easy on towers.

[Keraph]

We still have a tendancy to kick them in the teeth on a regular basis thought, especially post-patch, I think I've won a good 5 to 10 games for every one loss I suffered.

[Solenev]

We still have a tendancy to kick them in the teeth on a regular basis though.

I suppose. For awhile there it was more losses than wins. Then people starting taking Snowfall.

I wonder how that happened...?

[Broxigan]

-coughs.- I would never ever take Snowfall... -coughs.-

TEAM SNOWFALL FTW!

-hides.-

[Keraph]

I'm still not a fan of the Team Snowfall strategy, but to each their own, eh? Most of the victories I've been part of have not involved capturing Snowfall so much as a strong defensive line further south, keeping the Alliance attackers at bay while at the same time not forcing them to respawn on top of our own offense, which can commonly result in a turtle.

[Solenev]

It still amuses me when someone, usually from Dark Iron or Kalecgos goes, "WTF SCRUBS TAKE SF!! WTF??? WTF???"

Not taking Snowfall means you are succumbing to the idea that it is an Alliance graveyard. It is neutral. Therefore, it is OURS to pillage and burn. With the new changes, won't having graveyards be even more important?

[Broxigan]

I'm still not a fan of the Team Snowfall strategy, but to each their own, eh? Most of the victories I've been part of have not involved capturing Snowfall so much as a strong defensive line further south, keeping the Alliance attackers at bay while at the same time not forcing them to respawn on top of our own offense, which can commonly result in a turtle.

True, without Snowfall we have a better chance of winning, but think of this: if we force them up north, in one local area, can we not burn them down and deplete their reinforcements and win a victory with this new system? :D

[Solenev]

True, without Snowfall we have a better chance of winning, but think of this: if we force them up north, in one local area, can we not burn them down and deplete their reinforcements and win a victory with this new system? :D

Shhhhhh! The walls have ears... or rather the forums have eyes....

*prances away*

Adding to my posts instead of putting up new ones. That means... TURTLING = WIN!

[Nicoleta]

Silvermoon University is an avid supporter of taking Snowfall Graveyard. We started snatching it regularly a month or two ago in a fit of irritation over the "just let them win quickly" mantra and the small army of twitching degenerates in the AFKave. It was an unpopular decision, and I was called many unfortunate names as a result, but the fights became more fun, more successful, and above all, more profitable honor-wise.

Few people realize how bonus honor is calculated, but you receive extra points for every intact tower, claimed graveyard, mine controlled, and officer still standing. If you hold the line and don't give the Alliance an inch, you can easily clock 500+ points on a nonhonor weekend without sacrificing more than an additional 5 minutes. That's not counting kill-generated honor.

But heck, I just did it because I like some PvP in my battlegrounds every now and then. There's nothing more fun than holding the line against a seething tidal wave of gnomes and elves named "Legolawlz."

[Solenev]

Few people realize how bonus honor is calculated, but you receive extra points for every intact tower, claimed graveyard, mine controlled, and officer still standing.

My RL brother plays on Kalecgos and there is an AV pre-made group that forms up on AV weekends of the elite players on different servers. He's in it. Bastard. But what they do is take EVERYTHING. You can come out with something like 800 honour so a BG. In one weekend he got all his High Warlord gear. Bastard.

[Malakim]

The thing with taking snowfall is I know it causes a turtle, but I have also played back in the day when AV used to take forever, I liked it like that. The problem is unlike a turtle in WSG there are easy (Freaking easy) ways around an AV turtle.

So all the alliance are at a single graveyard defending it, good that means they will all be in one spot when wolf riders, wing commanders, Lok, and reavers (How many of you even know how to get them to spawn?) come piling up there.

AV was designed knowing people would be able to hold things if they wanted to so they also put in these nifty ways to get around it, when I first did AV when it first came out I was level 51, you know what I did? I freaking rounded up wolves for wolf riders then ran into the mine to get supplies. Then I was one of the 10 people that helped summon lok and that's when we won. Imagine using things to your advantage knowing there is more in AV then just trying to smash your head into a rock.

Taking Snowfall does help mess with the alliance and throw them back further where your offense is, which is a good thing! It allows less people to be super focused on standing at a graveyard and help round up supplies to actually have a fun and epic game. Because you can pretend to argue with me by saying ya I have more fun just getting a bunch of honor as quick as possible, but once you have that epic AV where you get to say oh man I didn't know which way it was gonna go then we had the wolf riders open the wall and Lok picked off a few stragglers and the wing commanders had our back. You never want to be in a race game again.


Also... bring back the big troll.

[Broxigan]

The thing with taking snowfall is I know it causes a turtle, but I have also played back in the day when AV used to take forever, I liked it like that. The problem is unlike a turtle in WSG there are easy (Freaking easy) ways around an AV turtle.

So all the alliance are at a single graveyard defending it, good that means they will all be in one spot when wolf riders, wing commanders, Lok, and reavers (How many of you even know how to get them to spawn?) come piling up there.

AV was designed knowing people would be able to hold things if they wanted to so they also put in these nifty ways to get around it, when I first did AV when it first came out I was level 51, you know what I did? I freaking rounded up wolves for wolf riders then ran into the mine to get supplies. Then I was one of the 10 people that helped summon lok and that's when we won. Imagine using things to your advantage knowing there is more in AV then just trying to smash your head into a rock.

Taking Snowfall does help mess with the alliance and throw them back further where your offense is, which is a good thing! It allows less people to be super focused on standing at a graveyard and help round up supplies to actually have a fun and epic game. Because you can pretend to argue with me by saying ya I have more fun just getting a bunch of honor as quick as possible, but once you have that epic AV where you get to say oh man I didn't know which way it was gonna go then we had the wolf riders open the wall and Lok picked off a few stragglers and the wing commanders had our back. You never want to be in a race game again.


Also... bring back the big troll.

You get a massive <3

[Kaliera]

The issue with taking snowfall is the obvious zerg that hampers the horde offense. When the horde's res point is at Stonehearth and the Alliance is literally five seconds from the Stormpike flag, even 40 horde will have a difficult time taking it away from 40 alliance.

The real benefit of leaving snowfall to them is the ability to strategically split the horde forces between offense and defense, with MORE people on offense than defense (I can't stress that enough). When the alliance reses at Snowfall, they're forced to go through a chokepoint that many horde players overlook, the path between Iceblood tower and Iceblood graveyard, and even tower point to an extent. Ten horde can easily defend against 20+ alliance offenders. With 10 horde playing defense, and 20+ alliance on offense, that leaves 30 horde versus less than 20 alliance up at stormpike, a MUCH easier number to manage when it comes to taking a graveyard so easily protected.

Some people enjoy the long games (myself included at times), but strategically speaking, leaving Snowfall for the alliance tends to be a better winning strategy. Plus, it opens up the possibility of taking an organized 5-man squad to the base of snowfall to keep their offense entirely trapped at the graveyard. Endless massacres + strategic lockdowns = fun!

[Malakim]

I still factor in the hold em at SP until you turn in all the fun toys. I like seeing wyverns bombing the hell outta people.

[Xiphus]

I still factor in the hold em at SP until you turn in all the fun toys. I like seeing wyverns bombing the hell outta people.

Long gone were the days when 40 people were cornered in the aid station getting pulverized by the wind riders, Lokthalar and the wolf riders. That used to be very fun, seeing them being humiliated right then and there.

[Nicoleta]

Agreed. I don't care if the game takes an extra half hour or whatnot as long as I get to see gnomes smashed and humiliated by a giant icicle.

[Abric]

I may enjoy Alterac Valley with its purpose in tact. I hate hate hate the rush game... it isn't PvP... especially when people run past you while you are fighting Alliance. Mostly druids - in which I blame Kaliera and her resto spec.

[Kaliera]

I may enjoy Alterac Valley with its purpose in tact. I hate hate hate the rush game... it isn't PvP... especially when people run past you while you are fighting Alliance. Mostly druids - in which I blame Kaliera and her resto spec.

Oddly enough, I picked a restoration spec this time around that allows me to kill most classes (warlocks and shadow priests aside) one on one with ease. I'm the one rooting alliance in the field of strife and slowly taking them apart over and over again. Running away from pvp is completely useless when you can revive in 30 seconds or less (the time it takes to eat and drink) with full mana and health.

Now, rogues on the other hand? "Lol i cloaks, den i sprints, den i go vanish". I blame Abric. :]