World PVP - Horde have it easier

[Hifazat]

I swear to god they do. I mean tactically Allaince towns or areas are hell.

Stone Talon - One enterance and the only exit.
Sunrock Retreat - 3 enterances.

Refuge Point is a freaking deathtrap. Don't get me started on the PVP stupidity of that place.
Hammerfall - 2 enterances. Flight path is way in the back. Free and easy to land.

Nijel's point - One enterance. Hard to get to, flight path is easy to get to.
Ghostwalker post - enough DKs around to make life miserable for anybody with ranking wanting to PVP there. Though in all honesty that is an easy place PVP wise to destory for the alliance.

Feralas - Huge. Large, not compact and enough place to walk around without aggroing hell.
Horde camp - can't remember the name. Small compact and you can't walk into it without killing something you aren't supposed to.

Need I say more?

[Malebrignon]

Two words: Onyxia Key.

[Hifazat]

errr....i am new to WoW. First time playing, first character past 50. never done end game. So --- what? :p

[Fhenrir]

His point is that the Alliance get the key for Onyxia MUCH easier than the Horde... which actually has nothing to do wtih the topic.

Honestly, it sounds to me like someone got a DHK on accident. Am I right or am I right? :wink:

[Hifazat]

lol. Actually i have more DKs than HK. I am rank 2 or maybe i am rank 1 now. Due to RP i make sure if i am in battle i take as many DKs as possible.

I am very sane warlock that wishes to commit genocide against the horde.

[Fhenrir]

If you think it'll help I can come step on your head until you don't feel anything anymore.

[Gannarak]

Alliance cities usually have a better layout, I mean, it is rare for the horde to have more than a few tents laying around. The alliance has a few good fortress, but yes, we do have Hammerfall, which is nice. I don't think the layout of the city makes a lot of difference on the world PvP, in the end, the amount of players in a city will determine if its easy to take or not. Lets take Kargath in the badlands. Its a lonely shack, but its always filled with 60s that are going into Black Rock or Molten Core.

J-

[Malebrignon]

Ah... never caught the whole "Hif is new" part. I troll forums pretty well, too, so good work covering the nub-sauce.

Basically, Alliance is easy-mode from a purely PvE stanpoint. Anything that gives you a PvP handicap makes us die-hard Hordies smile. Things like...say.... having a town that's effectively a death-trap.

[Lupa]

I have to agree with Mal on this. If there actually IS an advantage to the Horde in World PvP against Alliance towns (which I have my doubts, to me Alliance towns seem to be populated with MUCH more aggressive civilians and spawning guards), its only small compensation for the fact that we have it generally MUCH harder in quest completion etc.

Case in point. My rogue alt, Oonagi, completed her lvl 20 rogue quest last week. I did that quest as a human on Smolderthorn, in that tower in Westfall. I was able to pick the key off the guard, stealth all the way up to the tower, wait for that guy to move away from the chest and without even aggro'ing him pick the lock with ease. The poison cure follow up is all right there in Stormwind.

As Oonagi, I had to go to the tower in the Barrens near Sludge Fen, kill 2 guards, 2 more guards, 2 sentries or whatever, then kill the elite boss at the top and loot his head, then open the chest and loot the stash. Returning to Orgrimmar to turn in, I discover I need to fly to UC, then run all the way to Tarren Mill to get the poison cure! Whew!

From what I hear from others this is a common thing.. I suspect it has to do with what the devs assume is the average demographic of players on each faction; that the Alliance will be attracting most of the new and younger players.

[Thrysta]

I swear to god they do. I mean tactically Allaince towns or areas are hell.

Stone Talon - One enterance and the only exit.
Sunrock Retreat - 3 enterances.

Refuge Point is a freaking deathtrap. Don't get me started on the PVP stupidity of that place.
Hammerfall - 2 enterances. Flight path is way in the back. Free and easy to land.

Nijel's point - One enterance. Hard to get to, flight path is easy to get to.
Ghostwalker post - enough DKs around to make life miserable for anybody with ranking wanting to PVP there. Though in all honesty that is an easy place PVP wise to destory for the alliance.

Feralas - Huge. Large, not compact and enough place to walk around without aggroing hell.
Horde camp - can't remember the name. Small compact and you can't walk into it without killing something you aren't supposed to.

Need I say more?

((
Weep in greater quantities, novice.
))

[Grisch]

Since civilians are no longer susceptible to AOEs, I don't see that they should be as much of a factor in world PvP anymore. Someone has to outright attack them to get a DK. In my entire 50 levels so far on this server, I have 1 DK, and I booted the moron from the raid just too late when I saw him attacking a Civ.

From now on if there are civilians in the area, I will only have my own guildmates in the raid. The average pubbie is just too damned stupid to trust with my honor.

If you have half a brain combined with everyone in your raid (bear in mind that some people actually could drop this average to a negative factor), you shouldn't have much of a problem with DKs.

[Aquizit]

Unfortunately.. Multi-Shot still hits civvies..

[Garbhan]

Who gives a rats ass. As far as I'm concerned, BG'ers should stay to their BG's. They made their choice. If you're not really into it, then your rank isn't that important to you and DK's shouldn't matter. Not something to shoot for, but if you do enough world pvp, your HK's will dwarf your DK's.

Also, Alliance at a disadvantage? Good. Makes Dwarves like me need to work harder. I don't like it easy. *Harrumph*

[Rudrah]

Also, Alliance at a disadvantage? Good. Makes Dwarves like me need to work harder. I don't like it easy. *Harrumph*

Shortie got the attitude! I approve!

Us taurens are at "disadvantage" when confronted with any mouse hole you humans call "doors". Here you go.

[Sammuel]

((hahahahahaha.... worried about DK's on an RP server. hold on, let me catch my breath.


real world PVP is a where none are safe... civilians or soldiers, they are alliance scum. ))

[Xeran]

Meh ... while our outlying towns are deathtraps, our major cities are better constructed.

The Crossroads has several gaping holes in their defenses along the perimeter. Horde-side I've seen a level 20 Nightelf standing in one of the holes with nary a guard in sight.

Orgrimmar: you can follow the bridge path straight to Thrall's chamber. In Stormwind, you'd have to corpse hop your way to the Keep with any force not made up entirely of rogues and druids. Not to mention, unless you're played Alliance, SW is a death maze.

Thunderbluff: Isn't there an elevator right outside Cairne's tent? On the same level, anyway?

And /signed about the observations on Kargath. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard it suggested to raid that place. MC, BRD, UBRS, LBRS, BWL: all use Kargath as a staging area for the Horde. At one time on Bloodscalp we had THREE full 40-man, epicced-out raids in Kargath headed to MC or BWL. That's not including the UBRS and other groups that were there. Do not approach Kargath if you are Alliance.

I think the biggest issue the Alliance have in world PVP is the Alliance themselves. The Horde has its share of self-obsessed asshats but in the Alliance it seems to be par for the course. We need to work better in teams and we need to stop thinking we're all "the One" and accept the idea of sacrificing ourselves once in a while. Coordination and tactics will win out over gear, racials and building design any day. Give me a team in crappy greens and we'll mop the floor with a group of epicced out individuals.

End rant

[EnheilRas]

Stormwind:

1 Entrance, guarded by a "Mini-Boss" almost as powerful as a factional leader. To get through, you need to pass through a bridge, which is highly populated and heavily guarded. It requires running through 60% of the city to reach the factional boss.

Ironforge:

1 Entrance, right by the Bank/AuctionHouse/Inn, where there are literally a hundred people waiting to kill anything in a veritable wall of load lag. It is, as such, very heavily guarded, and makes for a near impossible assault on the factional boss, which pulls a second one when hit.

Darnassus:

1 Entrance, making you have to go through two Alliance towns and an Alliance Boat to get there. As such, it is impossible to reach without being attacked numberous times, and even then, you need to be incredibly careful about going to one of the two main NPC's. Staghelm resides in a high tower, making reaching him an extremely difficult event due to the tightly pacted area and the pension for AoEs.

Orgrimmar:

2 Entrances, with Talon Gate's Pass being almost completely ignored by a majority of Horde travelers. It is also very lightly guarded and very near the factional Boss.

Thunder Bluff:

2 Entrances, with the Back Lift being almost completely ignored by a majority of Horde travelers (Most are probably ignorant it exists).
It is also very lightly guarded and very near the factional boss.

Undercity:

2 Entrances, with the Sewers being almost completely ignored by a majority of Horde travelers. It is also very lightly guarded and very near the factional boss.

[Xorek]

DKs matter not at all in world pvp, or shouldn't matter.

I only have 2 right now, sometimes I think I need more.

And good points about Undercity, wow. Talk about the fast path to the city leaders. You coudl get in spitting distnace before a single player realizes you are there, and then you are in a nice easily defended hallway.

[Hifazat]

Aie. Another one for the inferno i bet. I will try to respond after work today.

As for DKs, I don't care. But everytime i try to suggest to the alliance that we burn a town to the ground and kill civs, i get lynched.

[Sammuel]

((that's because the Alliance are weak spineless fools (ok so I'm a little bit IC even when i'm OOC). heh.

I currently have 48 or so DKs and plan to get hundreds more....

Hifazat, it makes me happy to know there are alliance willing to fight.))

[Thrysta]

Aie. Another one for the inferno i bet. I will try to respond after work today.

As for DKs, I don't care. But everytime i try to suggest to the alliance that we burn a town to the ground and kill civs, i get lynched.

((
Well first off, The Alliance are...well, The Alliance. They are bright, shiny and pretty. Most RP'ers join the Alliance to RP as noble, honorable, and to fight for what is "right". (Of course there are always exceptions.)

In The Grim, we handle the "DK" situation in the following way.

We have two member designations...one that is ambivalent toward (or even enthusiastic about) DKs and the other that wants nothing to do with getting a DK. When we raid, we form two groups, one for each type, that share a common communication channel.

We formulate a plan around our two (or more) groups and go from there.

Everyone leaves happy.
))

[Tarlithion]

Stormwind: Bolvar Fordragon, protected by a handful of standard 60 guards that hit about as hard as you'd expect a 60 to.

Ironforge: Magni Bronzebeard, guarded by a few of those pansy little Dwarf guards, very few of them 60.

Darnassus: Tyrande Whisperwind, guarded by a few Priest trainers and a small number of Sentinels. She spawns more, but they're all 55, and pretty weak.

Orgrimmar: Warchief Thrall, guarded by 6-8 Shaman, all nasty healer types.

Thunder Bluff: Carine Bloodhoof, guarded by a few Bluffwatcher Elite, nothing really to worry about here.

Undercity: Sylvanas Windrunner, definitely the most difficult faction boss out there. Her hallway is filled with 60 Elite Deathguard, as is her throne room. The room also contains the three 60 Elite Battlemasters, the Horde mark of honor turn-in guy, more Deathguards, and Varimathras, another ?? Elite Demon.

[Xeran]

Good idea about the two groups, Thy. You Grim: always thinkin'. :)

I'm not obsessed with my PvP rank like some are, but I do want a crack as those shiney weapons and armor. I have no delusions of hitting High Warlord, but Knight-Captain should be sufficient to get some decent PvP gear. That's basically the only reason I care about it at all.

[Karkarov]

I will agree that sylvanas is definately the toughest. But as far as basic security. I have played both factions. Getting into an alliance boss is hard. I could get to any of the horde bosses with little to no trouble, I would be able to sleep through it as a rogue.

Also allies if you are really afraid for bolvar just trigger than onyxia event and run :P.

[Chavie]

spooooooky

[Aquizit]

Being of IFR.. my charge is obviously Magni..

The guy is insane.. he doesn't NEED elite guards.. he'll pwn a raid by himself!

Plate, duel-wielding... he's the hardest hitting faction boss out there, and he's got the huuuuuge knock-away attack that he does too.

Not only that, but you either have to go through the Tram.. (ample warning from SW) or the front gates (...do I even need to say anything?)

You'd need Novus, Echelon, The Grim, and FL to even think about getting through.. let alone take him down.


AND.. if it's true that he calls Mekkatorque when he's attacked.. forget it.. that little gnome hits HARD.


Edit: I noticed no-one mentioned the Archbishop or High Tinker Mekkatorque.. you guys don't like them? ;)

[Soraxis]

You'd need Novus, Echelon, The Grim, and FL to even think about getting through.. let alone take him down.

Fates Hand doesnt get a mention? Im gonna go cry now.../sniffle

[Xeran]

You'd need Novus, Echelon, The Grim, and FL to even think about getting through.. let alone take him down.

Fates Hand doesnt get a mention? Im gonna go cry now.../sniffle

Well, I think it's pretty much just assumed that you'd be there kind of like we're assuming you'd use weapons during the attack.

:)

[Rudrah]

Does the High Tinker Mekkatorque go PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW!!!! during the fight? I'd certainly love to see a raid being wiped by his gnomish engineering mastery!

*thinks of a flock of battle chickens each holding a Gnomish Death Ray* :twisted:

[Soraxis]

ITS THE GUINEA PIGS GODDAMNIT

[Ayashe]

Us taurens are at "disadvantage" when confronted with any mouse hole you humans call "doors". Here you go.

That inn in Booty Bay comes to mind. I have to sort of jump through that doorway and don't get me started on those lanterns hanging from the ceiling. Owww. *rubs her head and winces* Stupid goblins. I can't imagine what it's like for you males.

[Grainger]

(( If the damn Civvies didn't go calling for all the guards, it would be a lot easier to leave them alone, but if you don't kill them and kill them quick you've got the annoying guard zerg swarming all over you.

Using our two raid system, we can take out the civvies, deal with the guards and have some good, old fashioned world PvP.

Sadly this doesn't seem to exist anymore. We took over Refuge Point and Aerie Peak (now appropriately named Grim Point and Grim Peak) for close to an hour each time and not even a peep from an alliance coming to take it back from us. Just a couple unforunates who landed while we were there.

))

[Aquizit]

[ Bah.. I'm never online when you guys attack something.. ;_; ]