Two types of gamers (Serenity-now funeral video)

[Grisch]

I don't know if anyone has seen this yet:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7667194685876573666

Basically a player died in real life and a number of people on the server got together to honor him/her with an in-game funeral. It was on a PvP server however. A guild called 'Serenity-now' pitched up and proceeded to simply kill everyone at the funeral and then make a video of it.

This is quite a hot topic for debate in some circles. Most people are outraged at this kind of behaviour. Then of course there are the usual 'Wow, you guys are so awesome!' losers who will do anything for attention.

After looking at this I've realised a few things:

1) Internet wide, in some circles, it seems to have become a mark of pride to be a griefer. We have whole guilds devoted to this, stuff we've even seen on our server numerous times.

Then there are the folks that will do everything they can to commend bad behaviour. As seen on the TN boards, guys who will go 'OMFG you are so awesome, I want to be just like you!" about anyone that manages to get an angry response out of people.

2) There are 2 types of players, those that think that the net is a place free of any sort of rules, including decency. A place where there are no consequences for your actions. A place where you can get away from the responsibility and rules of the real world.

These people are directly opposed by others, (like me) who believe that rules and order are not something confined only to the 'real world'. In fact, the digital world is the same as the offline world. Actions should have consequences. Anonimity behind a keyboard gives you even less of a right to be a jerk.

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I'm trying to view this objectively, but actually I'm just really sickened by it. I would give a month's pay, probably more to be able to find guys like that and introduce 'real world' consequences for their actions to them.

Yes, they got to me, so in essence, they win, but still, is this the way things are going to be for the remainder of the time humans have access to the net?

Should people like this be allowed the same rights everyone else enjoys?

I've always been against rules and regulations, laws, punishments and so forth. Mainly because I've believed people should and can be left to regulate themselves. They don't need to be babied and have someone with a big stick standing over them all the time to make sure they behave.

Now I'm forced to re-assess these beliefs. It's depressing and scary all at the same time.

[Alucian]

I hope Blizzard bans every single one of them. This is no different than going to a rival's funeral and gunning everyone down.

It'd be one thing if they were mourning, say, an RP death of a character. This was a real person. Have some Goddamn decency.

Sick bastards.

[Kurohane]

I dont' think I can put it any better than Alu did. It turned my stomach to say the least. People like that should be pulled out in the streets, hung by thier toes and beaten.

[Alucian]

Yeah, I read through the Illidan WoW forums after that. It turns out they're just the bully guild of the server.

Glad I'm not on Illidan. Or one of them.

[Nadea]

Wow...thats just...wrong.

[Pistos]

I watched the movie... just like all the other WoW movies I've seen.

What they did was wrong, I guess, I'm not sure I see it as all of you do... They ruined a funeral, its sad I know... but its a pvp server, and above all things they should of known something like this would happen.

It saddens me to hear someone died in RL and I think its honorable that they held something like that in-game. I'm not sure if all those alliance there were with that guild that killed all the horde... but the people honoring this player should of done it in a city like Thunder Bluff.

[Conidivh]

The reason it was held in Winterspring is because it was well known among the deceased's friends that the area was one she was fond of, and enjoyed playing in.

Now, Devil's advocate: Yeah, they probably should have seen this coming because the event was advertised (remember the Tear's Winterveil Ball, anyone?) and yeah, it's a PvP server, so there's a margin of needing to err on the side of caution.

But in this case, tha'ts propping up a strawman in terms of arguement, because every single person who used that excuse in lieu of supporting Serenity Now's action failed to argue reasonably against the defining element in a situation like this: HUMAN DECENCY.

It's easy to point out the errors the funeral holders made if you hold to the fact that "they should have expected this on a PvP server" or if you're in the camp that believes SN was within their right to pull this stunt. But you know what? Not one person has pointed out the likewise measures for SN in this scenario. I.E. Where SN failed to take other options. So they should not have had it in Winterspring? - it was an area important to the departed, and they honored that. They did the best they could within the confines of gameplay on their server. People need to stop nailing them for that RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

I can guarentee you that the funeral holders, while possibly expecting griefing on a PvP server, did not for one second believe that someone would throw absolute tact to the wind and go for the disgusting gag. But let's see about what SN could and SHOULD have understood:

1. No - they did not have to participate, but nor did they have to go out of their way as they did JUST to ruin an event that they were fully aware was a memorial service for friends who could not attend the funeral itself.

2. It's a PvP server. That is NOT a blanket excuse for griefing. Sorry, I will not debate this. It's one thing to attack a town, to corpse camp, or to hunt lowbies down for grins and quite another to trash an event for the sake thereof. I've let plenty of red names go in my time with WoW, and I'm hardly a carebear. It's not hard, people. Being on a PvP server does not automatically give you leeway to ack like a dick. Period. There HAS to be a stature of limitations here per player, and half-assed excuses such as this are just people hiding behind the safety and consequence-less nature of their online persona.

3. No one has the right to tell another paying player how to enjoy their time on WoW. True. But then again, no one has the right to tell another taxpayer how to enjoy their time outside within the limits of the law.

Example: I could just as easy attend a stranger's funeral dressed in a clownsuit complete with balloons and so long as I did not physically assault anyone, there would not be a damn thing anyone could say or do. I could do just that, if I wanted to be a real prick.

SN did this for the sake of being jerks. Don't believe me? Check their forum sometime - they literally REVEL in this kind of behaviour, and do so because they can't reciprocate to, nor act like that in real life and because there are no consequences to them in game. For every griefer that claims RP reasoning, for every PvP-er that says they are "just playing the game" when they pull heinous nonsense, I'm calling bullshit on it.

You know the mentality when you see it, and the only true reason for them doing what they do is because they CAN for kicks. End of arguement. You don't even have to be a psychologist to understand that concept.

The forum troll, the chat spammer, the script kiddie, the PvP griefer. All the same M.O. on different platforms, all protected in their way by the annonymity the internet provides.

SN was wrong for pulling this stunt; not because they broke rules, not because they griefed in PvP, but because they had a choice of conscience on the matter and decided to be ambulatory correctional facility cockholsters and fucking wastes of carbon matter because it was fun at the expense of others without threat of punishment.

[Grisch]

Very, very good post Conidivh. I think you put into words everything I've been trying to say for ages.

Finally though, someone that actually states that a PvP server is not an excuse to be a jerk.

[Jeedup]

I fully agree with Conidivh in the issues he (or she) brought forth. This game is a realise for us, and we can choose to do what we want with it, be that becoming a bloodthirsty wanker, or a noble hearted player, its their choice.

HOWEVER, some manner of respect MUST be shown on certain occasions, and I do not side with SN in any respect, and grieve with those from Illidan as I was on that server for awhile and the departed had treated me with respect and dignity, I even planned on restarting a character just to attend the funeral, but I was, alas, out of town.

This does sicken me, especially since they decided to use The Beatles to almost mock their loss.

I refuse to wish ill will on the guilty themselves, but rather hope their characters are now cursed with bad luck. I do hope those attacked rise in level and rank, and that the Horde, AND Alliance players on the server give them nothing but thickest shit possible, or, Blizzard bans them (which I unfortunatly doubt will happen).

I also was contemplating the faction/race side of this game wise. For some reason I couldnt help but wonder if this would be something cheeky Alliance would really pull...

[Kurohane]

As a person that plays almost nothing yet Alliance, yet has many friends who play nothing but horde, Jee, I assure you that such asshats can be found on both sides of the line. It has nothing to do with alliance or horde - it has to do with immature idiots getting a murder-boner on.

PS - Conidivh is a guy, and my hubby. ^_~

[Jeedup]

(gotcha, cant tell genders sometimes ;) )

Oh I fully agree with asshats are completely abundant, having group with several, and have quite a few on my ignore list, and several allies on my shit list (Fathernature being one *grumble* ganking bastard) but I'm always curious on the fictional and psychological aspects of this game I enjoy so much, and wonder when it starts to mingle.

[Alucian]

Let's put this in the context of "another game", shall we?

Counterstrike. Do you EVER say "it's just like those damn counter-terrorists to pull something like this"?

No. WoW in a pvp sense is no different. Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm not really a night elf. You're not whatever race your character is, either. We're all human. And whether we use WoW as a reality escape or not, you cannot escape the basic tenets of human decency.

There is no justifying this. None. Period.

[Jeedup]

Agreed

[Abric]

Nice gesture by the people wanting to give a little get together to a decreased player. Goes to show the kindness of some, and hopefully THAT wasn't lost in this situation to those that might of appreciated it (Family, Friends, etc.)

Though, I believe the people who get a little angry of this shouldn't waste the stress and forehead wrinkles.

It happened, but only because it was over the internet, and through some circumstance group A didn't like group B so they decided to mix it up in an inapproiate, though legimate way. Do I agree with it? Nope... but I don't fault them for doing the thing that they did.

They will get the consquences of their actions in-game, and through karma. Getting mad and fueling their popularity does nothing but waste *your* time.

So, don't waste your time. Learn from it, and know that - with very few exception, that this wouldn't of happened on our server. You can say a lot about RPers (Drama emo bastards that we are), but generally we all have a bit higher standards than the "norm."

AbricOOC

[Xeran]

I am a Masters student in Information Technology. Much of what is being discussed here relates to a paper I wrote a while back about anonymity on the Internet and Plato's tale of the Ring of Gyges.

The Ring of Gyges would render its wearer invisible. They could commit crimes and no one would be able to catch them. So, the question is: what's to keep the person from committing crimes? They cannot be caught, why not rob a bank? Or steal from people's homes? Or murder?

The same construct exists over the Internet. You don't know who I really am. As someone from the military so eloquently put it: there's no punch-you-the-f___-out patch. You don't key cars in a parking lot because someone will punch-you-the-f___-out. If you tell someone they're ugly or stupid or if you try to take their money, someone will punch-you-the-f___-out. This inability to get caught is exactly what tards like Serenity Now rely on to act like asshats.

However, there is catch. Much like the argument Plato made regarding the Ring of Gyges there is a check in this system: when people behave by the rules even though they don't have to it's better for everyone. And when they don't, it's worse for everyone, including the offenders.

Serenity Now now has a reputation for being idiots on that server. Yes, they successfully griefed a bunch of people. Even if you liked what they did, having seen the video, would you actually trust them? Would you loan them gold? They don't care about other players, which also means they probably don't care about you. I suspect the new SN fanboi's will be changing their tunes when they themselves get burned by SN members. The immediate consequence is a bad reputation. On the Internet, a reputation is all you really have.

There is another, more ephemeral consequence as well, as more along the lines of what I think Plato was driving at. Being "good" results in a happier, more stable, more enjoyable environment for everyone. I will put this in WOW terms: a group of the opposite faction is raiding a town. You slaughter all of them. Do you a) back off so they can rez and fight again or b) corpse camp them? This situation has presented itself several times to me in WOW and I always say the same thing: back off and let them rez so we can fight again. I usually get the same responses also: "STFU - we're camping them!" My question is why? I play this game for some diversion and some action, not so I can stand over someone's animated toon corpse for twenty minutes like an ass. Too often, the group I'm in camps them ... and I usually start wondering what's on TV in the process. A couple of times we let them rez ... and we fought again. And again. Those are the best times - lots of action, many HKs, no downtime. By acting "good" we all have fun; by acting "bad" we all end up bored.

So I guess the point of this long-assed post is this: Serenity Now feels happy that they did something stupid. Let them be happy about it. What they did to themselves will last a lot longer than that video.

[Danyxandra]

It's all about control. People who feel they are whimpified in real live and have no control in their life go into the internet and ruin other people's events and routinely camp people's corpses to feel they are controlling someone else's situation. Makes them feel big in the internet world because in real life they are very small people, and I don't mean short. Same thing with wife beaters. Boss puts him thumb on little man and makes him feel small. Man goes home and beats wife to make her feel lower than he feels so he can feel like a big man again.

People that are fanboi's of guilds like Serenity-Now and fanbois of people that play the control game have control issues themselves as well. They see it as strength when they control someone else's game, when in reality they are really weak people inside.

[Xeran]

Well, the sad thing is these people are the very ones that allow themselves to become small in the first place. They perpetuate their own suffering. Man feels small because of something the boss said -> man beats wife to feel like a big man again -> man ends up in jail for beating his wife thus not only losing power but freedom as well. He feels big temporarily for doing something stupid, but it does nothing to fix the problem with his boss and ends up getting him in a worse situation than he was in before.

[Xorek]

asshats, yes?

Should they be banned, no.

This is in part why I don;t play a raw pvp server. As much a bunch of bastards as they are...this is something you are allowed to do (on this server too...I am hoping it would be less likely though).

[Xeran]

asshats, yes?

Should they be banned, no.

This is in part why I don;t play a raw pvp server. As much a bunch of bastards as they are...this is something you are allowed to do (on this server too...I am hoping it would be less likely though).

Agreed. As well-meaning as the event was and as bad as it was to disturb it, what can they really be faulted for: it's a PVP server and they PVP'd. The guild's reputation will take a hit and they are definately a bunch of jerks but I don't think appealing to Blizz will accomplish anything.

As Xeran, I was involved with the Tears Winter Ball. Some people disrupted the event with PVP even though they were asked not to. Some of the organizers reported the offenders to Blizz and the GM response was pretty much the same: it's a PVP server. Yes, its an RP-PVP server, but the mechanic of PVP is there and players are free to take advantage of it if they choose to.

[Ellsbeth]

In a case like this though...

I laughed when I watched it because laughter is a response that isn't always evoked by something funny. Sometimes people laugh when they're so uncomfortable they don't know what to do.

This made me very uncomfortable.

And disappointed.

They didn't have to show up at all.

But it doesn't surprise me that someone would do this.

(edited cause I didn't want to kill this thread! *smiles sheepishly*)

[Necrosis]

((Yeah that sucks, well if you haven’t noticed must people in this world are jerks (regardless if they are on the internet or not). If someone isn’t part of your “group” (whatever that may be) they don’t concern you much. A few folks are decent enough to leave something as sensitive as this alone, most others (like Danlilly pointed out) hurt others to make themselves feel better/bigger.))

[Kazthul]

The thread is a bit old hat now, but after watching the video and pondering everything, I must admit, I love it. While that might not be a popular view, each person is different and ultimately everything in subjective.

If I was the one who had deceased and a funeral of sorts was held for me in the game, to honor my memory I'd want a big messy battle. The whole scenario would be the perfect homage to a modern day warrior born to the wrong century.

Am I trying to justify their actions? No. The event was put together to let the friends of the departed have one last good-bye and a video for her family was being put together. So yeah, thats some awful stuff, the absolute most vile level griefing possible, short of taking to the real world. Did I love every last minute of the video, sure, not because I'm a sick bastard like they are that gets off on ruining something special, but because I'd want something crazy like that to go down in my memmory.

A part of me acknowledges that what transpired is morally very wrong, but the primal side of me is elated.

[Sinthe]

Internet + anonymimity = total fuckstick

Gotta love Penny-Arcade for that one.