[A] Wintergrasp Premades

[Wobblebonk]

http://hra.wowstead.com/files/hra_wintergrasp_crop2_rs.png (http://hra.wowstead.com/)

To all Alliance players who want to fix the Wintergrasp imbalance:

This weekend, look for Horde Resettlement Agency officers online 30 minutes before the start of Wintergrasp games to join a raid group with a single objective: winning the battle.

For the time being, we are running premades mainly for offense games to work out a variety of strategies for large raid groups to tip the balance of the battle. Our smaller raids (15 people or less) have failed thus far because their tiny size restricted us to driving vehicles only. We need at least double that number so that our pilots receive adequate protection against RP-GGs, tower cannons, and enemy players.

You must have Ventrilo installed and be able to follow instructions given on Vent. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Do not expect immediate positive results. Much of our success will depend on the cooperation of players around us and their ability to react quickly to a changing battlefield. As our officers become more experienced and successful leading offensive raids, we will begin to branch out into defense.

Whiners, complainers, people who do not follow instructions, and "backseat drivers" who repeatedly contradict instructions given by raid leaders will be blacklisted and not invited to future raids. Our goal now is to gain experience and find out what works; some tactics may turn out to be ineffective in retrospect, and we will invite constructive criticism AFTER each game in order that the next one may go better. Suggestions and evolving strategies will be recorded on a private forum inaccessible to the Horde.

If you have any questions about the Wintergrasp premades or the Alliance superiority guild leading these premades, visit:

hra.wowstead.com (http://hra.wowstead.com/)

[Skaadvik]

BIG RED LETTER MEAN SERIOUS BUSINESS

For real guys, let's start kicking some ass.

[Swerto]

Wintergrasp


more like LOSTERGRASP

[Agnarr]

Can you run premades in Wintergrasp? Last I knew it was a random selection if you get to go, and people in a raid/group wouldn't wind up in the "actual" raid(s).

[Wobblebonk]

Can you run premades in Wintergrasp? Last I knew it was a random selection if you get to go, and people in a raid/group wouldn't wind up in the "actual" raid(s).

It's not random selection Alliance side because (except for maybe two games on Tuesdays) there are never 120 Alliance in the zone. HRA has also developed a tried-and-true workaround solution for the randomness of which raid you're placed in.

[Imirak]

HRA has also developed a tried-and-true workaround solution for the randomness of which raid you're placed in.

You're so mysterious! :D

[Wobblebonk]

You're so mysterious! :D

I'm not going into major Spy vs. Spy mode, it's just that there's absolutely no point in revealing anything about our strategy except to people who join the premade.

[Imirak]

I'm not going into major Spy vs. Spy mode, it's just that there's absolutely no point in revealing anything about our strategy except to people who join the premade.

But that's not even a strategy! It's a workaround for getting placed in different raids. Horde-side, we use /1 General to accomplish that. :P

Anyway, please don't take my ribbing as anything but good-natured. I am actually very impressed that you guys are organizing against difficult odds and HRA deserves a lot of credit for that.

[Skaadvik]

I'm not going into major Spy vs. Spy mode, it's just that there's absolutely no point in revealing anything about our strategy except that IT RULES SO HARD YOU WILL SHIT YOUR PANTS.

fixed

[Wobblebonk]

The premades are off to a good start; all seven vehicles that breached the first wall and made it to the last door were piloted by members of the premade, and the ground support (again, 90% of them people from the premade) stifled all RPG attacks long enough for the majority of them to reach the titan relic intact.

Until the moment we won, there were people in the zone saying that HRA had "ruined the game," "premades don't work in Wintergrasp," and that it was pointless to try to win when we were outnumbered heavily (even though we had 0 tenacity and were therefore not outnumbered at all).

Good job to those who joined the premade and followed instructions.

[Wobblebonk]

Our defensive premade lost with 6 seconds left on the clock and ten second lag between casts. Damn you, server lag!

[Sadi]

I was going to say.. i think you need to work more on defense tactics than offense... But you were doing pretty good on that last one and might have won if not for the lag.

lag always seems to help the attacking force more than the defending.

ps.. i was fully expecting(hoping) you to open up on me(cthacu) after that sap... oh well..

[Wobblebonk]

I was going to say.. i think you need to work more on defense tactics than offense... But you were doing pretty good on that last one and might have won if not for the lag.

Sadi, you haven't played much Wintergrasp, have you? Alliance went Friday-Sunday last week only winning two games. We concentrate mainly on offense because that's the best starting point at this time.

Edit: And by that I mean that offensive games are simpler to organize than defensive ones, and we still lose 90% of the time, so it's easy to demonstrate improvement.

[Sadi]

I only meant that alliance does occasionally win an attack.. but rarely do they manage a defend. I can see your point though about it being easier to organize and a winning attack has more of a victory feeling to it.

on a personal note.. you dont really have to start every reply with a jab at someone... unless you do, in which case i'm sorry for whatever unfortunate event has led to that condition. To answer what was most probably a rhetorical question... I do participate in WG quite often and I'm very aware of the imbalance.

[Wobblebonk]

11:00 game -- won again.

[Trigin]

Alliance FUCK YEAH!

[Urivial]

Alliance FUCK YEAH!

FUCK YEAH

[Skaadvik]

Two minutes into the battle amidst whining at our terrible strat:
1. [General] [Random pug]: Pro tip: premades are supposed to win.

30 seconds after the battle:
1. [General] [Skaadvik]: Pro tip: premades are supposed to win.

[Ryoku]

Premades definately help in Wintergrasp. A good group of 10+ decent, organized people with a good strat can make all the difference.

Glad to see you guys are doing well.

[Maithanet]

I'm all for competition within Wintergrasp, please don't let this thread turn into an e-peen flex contest though for -either- side.

Congrats on the wins this morning.

[Dahnek]

Well I certainly think the Alliance can do with a lil Epeen flexing. They are the David to Goliath. I too took pride slaying the Horde as Alliance, perhaps even moreso then I did on my monsterous DK namesake.

Keep it up folks. Through unity, strength.

[Maithanet]

Well I certainly think the Alliance can do with a lil Epeen flexing. They are the David to Goliath. I too took pride slaying the Horde as Alliance, perhaps even moreso then I did on my monsterous DK namesake.

Keep it up folks. Through unity, strength.

I certainly don't mind Wobble saying if he's having success / failing, but as I said, the moment it turns into a contest someone will have to shut it down, and then this'll be why we can't have nice things.

[Wobblebonk]

I certainly don't mind Wobble saying if he's having success / failing, but as I said, the moment it turns into a contest someone will have to shut it down, and then this'll be why we can't have nice things.

God forbid a PvP thread turn into some sort of... competition.

[Maithanet]

God forbid a PvP thread turn into some sort of... competition.

If it turns into an E-peen competition it turns into a flame war. I didn't really think I needed to type out the entirety of my first post. Just for you Wobblebonk, next time I shall!

[Rand_Shea]

I don't think this turning into a contest is a bad thing. The type of contest, though, is what would be the deciding factor in it getting a lock.

If people gloat about their victories... then so what? So long as it's not an overt "HAW HAW THIS SIDE AND THESE SPECIFIC PEOPLE SUCK ASS" claim, then leave it be and let the butthurt masses figure out how to ignore stuff that pisses them off. Delete THEIR comments on grounds of drama-mongering if you have to.

If people turn it into a shit-slinging contest, then that's different. By all means nuke everything if that happens.

Games, and particularly pvp, have and always will be about people competing against each other. If it's going to devolve into a bruised ass angstfest, then keep in mind it is half the fault of the people getting offended as much as it's half the fault of the people (in this case, Wobblebonk and the rest of the Alliance participants) saying and doing things to further incite them into raging about being offended.

Referees don't make people stop playing sports games just because one side loses... keep that in mind.

[Maithanet]

Referees don't make people stop playing sports games just because one side loses... keep that in mind.

And no one intends to, you were probably typing at the same time I was clarifying but one last time, if this turns into a shitstorm, someone will start nuking, otherwise I don't really think anyone will complain about a healthy contest. From what I know, most of the Horde welcomes it.

That said. Wintergrasp is in thirty six. ;)

[Wobblebonk]

Lost the 4:30 game. After 35 minutes straight advertising, we only got 15 people in vent. GG

[Wobblebonk]

Got 22 people, including 11 guildies (the most ever), in the 7:00 premade, had plenty of people on the ground protecting sieges, and steamrolled straight through to the relic door.

I sense a correlation developing...

[Dahnek]

A tangent: Gods, I really wish WG ended up being the Vigridr they advertised and attempted to first design. This was doubly true after the Ilse of Conquest was introduced and implemented some great ideas, including some discarded WG ones. My heart still goes pitter-patter at the mental image of Paladins halo jumping behind enemy lines, ambush teams lurking at objectives waiting for the enemy, and all kinds of goodness. /SIGH

[Imirak]

Got 22 people, including 11 guildies (the most ever), in the 7:00 premade, had plenty of people on the ground protecting sieges, and steamrolled straight through to the relic door.

I sense a correlation developing...

Horde was way late to defend on that push. I wouldn't be taking that strat to the bank just yet.

[Wobblebonk]

Horde was way late to defend on that push. I wouldn't be taking that strat to the bank just yet.

It's a good strat for a small number of people (i.e. less than 40); if it doesn't work, well... you didn't have enough people for anything else. If it does work, you win about 1 minute after hitting the outer wall.

[Skaadvik]

Shit's going good for now. Keep not learning how to own us, Horde. please?


I love you guys.

[Imirak]

It's a good strat for a small number of people (i.e. less than 40); if it doesn't work, well... you didn't have enough people for anything else. If it does work, you win about 1 minute after hitting the outer wall.

Right. You have to hope that you guess correctly on which side to zerg because you're probably not going to get two shots at it.

In that battle, we had practically NO ONE on the west side, which is really unusual. That's all I'm saying.

[Wobblebonk]

In that battle, we had practically NO ONE on the west side, which is really unusual. That's all I'm saying.

It's more common than you think; besides, there were lots of Horde defending outside the wall on the west side, so we lost nearly half our zerg before we breached the first wall.

[Zultingo]

Alliance? In my WG keep?
It's more common than you think.

[Wobblebonk]

Welp, we've stopped premades for the night because we have too few guildies online. See you tomorrow!

[Tylorvias]

Keep it up and I might have a reason to do WG again.

You know...for fun.

[Wobblebonk]

4:00 -- the relic door fell less than 6 minutes after the start of the game, and 44 seconds after the first wall was damaged.

[opalexian]

Great, Googe has LAG on his side. At least its only in WG (I hope...)

Also WHO MADE CELLY A MOD?!?!? FFFFFFFFFFFFF >_>

[Wobblebonk]

Great, Googe has LAG on his side. At least its only in WG (I hope...)

Heh. There was no lag whatsoever in the last game. In fact, the only time we've lagged noticeably was the defensive battle on Friday.

[Imirak]

There was definitely lag at the end, but it was kind of a foregone conclusion at that point.

[Chikt]

Heh. There was no lag whatsoever in the last game. In fact, the only time we've lagged noticeably was the defensive battle on Friday.

I personally lag at least twice as much on defense than I do on offense. A lot of Horde complain about lag when we're on the defensive.

[Urivial]

Since the title says nothing about the HRA itself I assume its ok to post this here.


"Today the Highland Marauders led a successful WG premade, with over 25 people coming along. No vent was used and we won in under 3-4 minutes." Good game everyone. I will be happy to do a WG offensive premade whenever Wobble is... unavailable to.

[Wobblebonk]

Since the title says nothing about the HRA itself I assume its ok to post this here.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7008/hrawintergraspcrop3rs.png

But you're right, this thread is about all blue team WG premades; I just didn't anticipate anyone except HRA running them since we're the first Alliance players to have organized them after faction transfers.

[Dahnek]

Infernos always start with a spark. The key is not for HRA to be the end-all of Alli pvp i'm sure, but what starts the movement. Sounds like you guys are doing just that. :)

[Wobblebonk]

We won again. 4 minutes 30 seconds. Some troll with an RPG took out most of our zerg from behind a wall where we couldn't hit him, but we still gave the Horde on defense a hot dicking.

[Skaadvik]

we gave the Horde on defense a hot dicking.

lucky bastards.

[Imirak]

Some troll with an RPG took out most of our zerg from behind a wall where we couldn't hit him

oh, the irony.

[Omy]

Been joining Wobble and the HRA for these whenever I can. It's been a blast, honestly, even when we loose I feel like we're giving it a solid shot....a lot better for my stomach than a buncha nothing running around spending more time arguing over general than actually fighting...

[Skaadvik]

Been joining Wobble.. giving it a solid shot....for my stomach...

MONEY SHOT

[Omy]

/facepalm

[Imirak]

Been joining Wobble and the HRA for these whenever I can. It's been a blast, honestly, even when we loose I feel like we're giving it a solid shot....a lot better for my stomach than a buncha nothing running around spending more time arguing over general than actually fighting...

Ya, I think he's doing a great job. He might be overselling his success a little, but if that's what it takes to fire up the Alliance, then go for it.

The bottom line, though, is that WG is not complicated and the more he brags about his victories (although Horde is 6-3 in the games I've played in since Sat), the more Horde players he is going to get to start paying attention rather than farming kills.

[Emyi]

Twisting Nether 09/05 CST RP-PVP EN 5,063 (35%) 9,529 (65%) 1:1.8 14,592

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?serverid=559

A to H Ratio: 1 : 1.9
Activity Ratio: 1 : 1.8
16 : 28*

* Number of entries in last 30 days

Yes, WG is a very simple concept. But these numbers right here show where the problem lies. Nearly 24/7, we are outnumbered almost 2 to 1 in favor of the Horde. The same USUALLY goes for WG times. I remember on my Horde alts that if I did not queue for WG before it started and queued after, I had to wait or miss out all together, where as on the Alliance, I can join a game at just about any point in time.

We almost always have at least 1 to 2 stacks of Tenacity. That is another implication of just how imbalanced it is. We do, on occasion, have none, and the games are usually even, without coordination. But Without these premades happening, we usually get swamped. And quick.

But for the Alliance to win during peak hours, I see that as something to brag about.

And no, HRA does not do premades EVERY WG. As far as I know, we do two or three mostly during peak hours. We nearly had a defend win if it were not for lag.

So yes, Horde will always have more wins in their book, but with the current state of the imbalance and the pessimism that runs wild through WG general and the extreme string of losses we had over the past month before we, HRA, started premades, you can take your horde superiority and shove it. We take what we can get. What we work for. Go piss on someone else's parade.

[Chikt]

The games I've been in as of late have gone something like this:

0:00 - Fighting outside Sunken Ring.
0:45 - Alliance build 14 Siege Engines.
1:00 - Horde take all the workshops, Alliance siege vehicle cap is 4.
2:00 - Outer wall is demolished.
3:00 - Inner wall is demolished.
4:00 - Main room is opened.
4:15 - Unulu gets a high enough rank to build a Siege Engine.
4:30 - Alliance take Wintergrasp.

I don't know if you guys instantly get rank because of the win/loss ratio on the server like I've heard rumored. I don't think I've ever seen the Horde steamroll the Alliance quite that quickly. During our offensive games we're still fighting down by the towers to trying and defend them. The only way to defeat a stack of 14 siege vehicles is by repositioning at least 40 people in Wintergrasp to intercept - and that's pretty much like herding cats when you're in there with a bunch of randoms.

I'd wanted the premades to make it feel like the fight was bought back to Wintergrasp, but it doesn't. Games in Wintergrasp have always been a set of extremes - either the Horde was demolishing the Alliance over a massive number of games, or the Alliance is demolishing the Horde in less than 5 minues. And it's dumb (both extremes, that is). It doesn't feel like "The Battle for Wintergrasp" as "Stack Siege. Win game."

I'm not attempting to belittle your victories. It's great to see the Alliance actually owning Wintergrasp and I think that's something to be proud of. We know that there's a lack of Alliance (god damn Paladins with 4 stacks of tenacity) and we know that probably the BIGGEST issue the Alliance has in PvP is pessimism. Just don't let the victories go to your heads TOO much.

[Urivial]

-Is a retadin with 4 stacks of tenacity- Goddamn its fun one shotting people in furious regardless of their resil xD


EDIT: During your offensive games a Huge CHUNK of Horde hangs out right in front of the keep waiting for siege to appear. Then when they take down one wall they're waiting right INSIDE the front section WAITING for siege to appear, then the second wall goes down and they spill into the main section destroying ANY Alliance presence and again, WAIT for siege to appear. It makes me sad that you guys win this way because I wish those 50 Horde were forced to do something besides wait =/

[Chikt]

-Is a retadin with 4 stacks of tenacity- Goddamn its fun one shotting people in furious regardless of their resil xD

So much hate.

[Urivial]

Hehehe

[Yatokth]

-Is a retadin with 4 stacks of tenacity- Goddamn its fun one shotting people in furious regardless of their resil xD


EDIT: During your offensive games a Huge CHUNK of Horde hangs out right in front of the keep waiting for siege to appear. Then when they take down one wall they're waiting right INSIDE the front section WAITING for siege to appear, then the second wall goes down and they spill into the main section destroying ANY Alliance presence and again, WAIT for siege to appear. It makes me sad that you guys win this way because I wish those 50 Horde were forced to do something besides wait =/

But waiting is most effective because it keeps you from ranking up and allows them to bottleneck you into the laggy courtyard.

lol wintergrasp.

It's just a horrible PvP system, and I hope Tol Barad is done completely differently, cause I've never seen a good WG battle that was actually decent, fun, nail-biting PvP. Too much vehicle involvement, too much lag, too much bullshit.

[Urivial]

I've had good WGs, where I felt like I was contributing... but only on Horde side. On Defense... Before Premades. When Alliance attacked 3 walls in one section instead of hitting one wall... Seriously. They did that yesterday the battle before I decided we needed a premade even if Wobble wasn't around. They had 14 vehicles and they attacked 3 DIFFERENT walls in the west section. 2 on the south side and one on the wall facing west. They took down all 3. If you do it right and go straight to the keep door... it takes 3 walls to win... but no. We had to take down 3 walls in the same outer courtyard... -sigh- Thats my rant of the day, <3 Wobblebonk's Premades. Not to be confused with Wobblebonk himself.

[Yatokth]

Zerg the middle. Win every time.

That's the Horde way.

^why WG sucks

Also, if the only 'good' WG you have is against a bunch of baddies, I'm not sure that's good.

[Emyi]

The mechanics of WG and Tenacity are still very murky. I am not sure if it is the Tenacity that allows us, as Alliance while on offensive, to gain max rank off of one kill. As you said, it may very well be related to the hidden mechanics and with win/loss/defended ratio. But when Alliance is on Defense, no matter the Tenacity, it takes the full amount of kills to gain rank.



The only way to defeat a stack of 14 siege vehicles is by repositioning at least 40 people in Wintergrasp to intercept - and that's pretty much like herding cats when you're in there with a bunch of randoms.


This has been the major problem with WG, in general. There are multiple ways to win and usually, there is only one captains hat and too many people trying to wear it. It happened alot on Alliance, where our forces would be split terribly to the point that we are overrun from every angle. It happened to one of the first premades HRA did, where people cried premades do not win and decided to run off and do their own thing.

WG lost all meaning a long time ago. Hell, it lost meaning before it came out. Making it the access point for a very casual raid to whoever owns the damn place is what makes it so popular. And when you have a server imbalance, it causes one side of the spectrum to rarely get the chance FOR VoA. Example: A couple of weeks ago, I can remember for an entire week, losing WG due to being outnumbered and the lack of organization. This was, of course, during peak hours. That's an entire week of only half the server being able to do the content in VoA.

So, with this, WG lost it's meaning. It isn't a PVP game anymore. Just like AV. It is a race to, unfortunately, rush to the end before things get out of hand and all the workshops are snatched out from under us. The WG system is broke. Everyone knows this. And I really wouldn't see it being as huge of a problem if the winner didn't hold VoA and the vendors.

I have seen some Horde games where they won in a VERY short amount of time just as HRA has done. Hell, usually the weekend mornings are the worst for the Alliance. Even with 5 stacks of tenacity at 7 in the morning, it is a loss.

I know where you are coming from Dio. Everyone knows the system is broken. We just do what we can so A) we can do VoA, B) we can access the vendors and C) give a little bit of a morale boost to the Alliance.

[Trigin]

I've never seen a good WG battle that was actually decent, fun, nail-biting PvP.

One time on defense Alliance lost at exactly 6 seconds I got a charlie horse it was so intense

[Chikt]

I know where you are coming from Dio. Everyone knows the system is broken. We just do what we can so A) we can do VoA, B) we can access the vendors and C) give a little bit of a morale boost to the Alliance.

The sad thing is that I think the only way that Wintergrasp is going to be held by both sides for a near even amount of time is WITH this premade and controlling a wave of Siege Vehicles from one specific location. That's the really stupid part.

I hope and pray that Tol Barad isn't vehicle dependent. THAT will suck.

[Skaadvik]

I dislike vehicle battles as well. I dislike Wintergrasp in general. The only reason I can play it now is because of my roommate's superior computer. It's the principle of the thing for me. Alliance winning.

[Agnarr]

I actually love(d) the vehicle aspect of it. It always made me sad in the pants when we lost and I couldn't even build a fucking catapult because the allies always went full siege within the first minute and stormed the place.

[Emyi]

It always made me sad in the pants when we lost and I couldn't even build a fucking catapult because the allies always went full siege within the first minute and stormed the place.

That's okay. You will hold WG the other 150 hours in the week. Give us our 17.

[Agnarr]

That's okay. You will hold WG the other 150 hours in the week. Give us our 17.

Of course, this was back when I was playing, a few months ago. I'm not sure how the alliance got so bad since then.

[Emyi]

Of course, this was back when I was playing, a few months ago. I'm not sure how the alliance got so bad since then.

I would venture to say 'end of the expansion woes'. 3.3.3 ain't really got shit to offer besides a revamp to the PVP system with Tokens and the Random Battleground thing. I honestly do not know what is going to keep me going until 4.0. Sure, we have the Ruby Sanctum raid in 3.3.5, but that is still a good 5-6 months out. -.-

[Chikt]

Sure, we have the Ruby Sanctum raid in 3.3.5, but that is still a good 5-6 months out. -.-

No, it's not I don't think so. Once 3.3.3 hits servers, it's quite likely that it will only be a few weeks (a month tops, I'd wager) for 3.3.5 to hit the PTR's and start getting tested. All the content is already there, they just need to start testing really.

Ruby Sanctum won't be where all the work comes from. It'll be all the world events that they've got happening in 3.3.5 that will likely take the most work, and leave the patch up on the server for a good long time.

[Emyi]

I hope you are right.

3.3.0 came out December 8.
3.3.2 came out February 2.
3.3.3 will more than likely be next Tuesday, according to MMO, March 23.

Depending on if there is a 3.3.4 or not, that would put the schedule of events for the next 'minor' patch sometime at the beginning of May. Take on another month and a half to two months for 3.3.5 brings us up to about Julyish.

Just noticing there was no 3.3.1. o.O

If there is no 3.3.4 [wtf number scheming] then I suspect early to mid May for 3.3.5.

[Chikt]

If there is no 3.3.4 [wtf number scheming] then I suspect early to mid May for 3.3.5.

Don't be surprised if it's sooner. So much content has gone into 3.3.5 already, it's weird for us to know so much about a patch that's technically two patches away (3.3.3 and then 3.3.5 itself). Early may is probably a fairly solid bet, but mid to late April is also a massive possibility. After all, 3.3.3 isn't a major content patch - it's a tweak patch. 3.3.5 is the content patch. And 4.0 seems likely it about two months later in June/July.

[Emyi]

And 4.0 seems likely it about two months later in June/July.

This would surprise me. Seeing as how we do not even have Beta going yet, and USUALLY the X.0 patches come out before the expansion and have been tested and tinkered with thoroughly through beta...

Damnit, I want Beta to come so I can dive into some leaks. :<

So, how about dem WG's? *Tries to shove the train back on track.*

[Imirak]

But for the Alliance to win during peak hours, I see that as something to brag about.


First of all, I have been a consistent horde proponent for the alliance getting their pvp strengthened. But just because I'm not a rah-rah cheerleader doesn't mean I want you guys to fail, or that I am denigrating your accomplishments.

The way I see it, Wobble has accomplished a lot but has still made 3 mistakes:

1) Publicly taking credit for WG victories
2) Describing his tactics openly
3) Rolling a gnome

You need to understand that, because of the numbers you posted, alliance will always be at a disadvantage until hopefully Cat rebalances the factions. If you want to talk smack and rile up the general horde playerbase, that's fine, but realize that they will organize in kind and return to flattening you 80% of the time in WG instead of the current 65%. It's just human nature.

This is not meant to detract from anything that Wobble has accomplished!

Before, when horde would lose WG, players would blame each other for "being bad", etc (typical). Backbiting among horde players benefits the alliance more than us actually preparing against an organized premade.

[Emyi]

1) Publicly taking credit for WG victories

He and HRA should take credit for the wins we grab, when we lead. We pull people together from all around Northrend, Dalaran, other guilds and start preparing well before it begins. We use HRA's vent. WG isn't srs bsns, but every little bit helps. And he has made it so MOST of his 'pre-mades' end up winning, during the usual hours we lose with no leadership.


2) Describing his tactics openly

The tactic we use isn't really meant to be a secret. Hell, it's the way you win in this broken BG style open world PVP. The tactics aren't really hard to figure out.



3) Rolling a gnome

GNOMES RULE YOU SHUT UP.


You need to understand that, because of the numbers you posted, alliance will always be at a disadvantage until hopefully Cat rebalances the factions. If you want to talk smack and rile up the general horde playerbase, that's fine, but realize that they will organize in kind and return to flattening you 80% of the time in WG instead of the current 65%. It's just human nature.

You mean we will have pvp in WG?! : O

We are all for people trying to throw a wrench in our gears. Maybe it will make WG a little more interesting instead of "A Steamrolls B" then two hours later "B steamrolls A".

In any case, Mr. Bonk's leadership in WG has brought our numbers up. It seems every time we do this, one or two more people ask about HRA. Not only does it give Alliance for VoA, but it is a WONDERFUL recruitment method when the outcome is nearly always good. [Attacking OR defending].

The best and most fun games I have had with HRA in WG is the defending ones.

[Yatokth]

We are all for people trying to throw a wrench in our gears. Maybe it will make WG a little more interesting instead of "A Steamrolls B" then two hours later "B steamrolls A".


Due to the nature of WG not much beyond this will really happen.

[Imirak]

WG isn't srs bsns

I respectfully disagree. If forming premades to win a massive pvp battle for honor isn't serious business in this game, then nothing is.

As soon as we take it seriously, it becomes srs bsns by definition.

[Yatokth]

I respectfully disagree. If forming premades to win a massive pvp battle for honor isn't serious business in this game, then nothing is.

As soon as we take it seriously, it becomes srs bsns by definition.

Imirak is srs bsns.

[Urivial]

I see no problem with HRA saying they made a premade and it was effective and they should get credit. They need more members, so of course they are going to advertise ALL World PvP they are successful in. HLM led one successful premade and got 4 new members out of it.

[Trigin]

I respectfully disagree. If forming premades to win a massive pvp battle for honor isn't serious business in this game, then nothing is.

As soon as we take it seriously, it becomes srs bsns by definition.

WoW is srs bsns guyz!

[Urivial]

I... I shake if I don't get my WoW fix everyday... -hand begins to shake- GODDAMNIT HAND.

[Imirak]

WoW is srs bsns guyz!

I'm just not going to be one of those guys who has a blast playing this game for hours, and then acts smugly as if I don't care whether I win or lose.



Imirak is srs bsns.

As evidenced by my avatars and insanely competitive RP stories! :P

[Skaadvik]

I'm smug enough for both of us.

[Ackley]

I don't know if you guys instantly get rank because of the win/loss ratio on the server like I've heard rumored.


I'm actually pretty sure we do. I've joined late, ran into a fight and instantly was high enough rank for a siege engine.

That's happened like 5 times for me.

[Lailinarel]

Zomg I say Imirak for the first time ever in pvp... and couldn't really fight him cause of lag, Dio either. Was teh suck. You guys held those south shops well though.

[Yatokth]

Zomg I say Imirak for the first time ever in pvp... and couldn't really fight him cause of lag, Dio either. Was teh suck. You guys held those south shops well though.

Saw you there, was like HOSHIT TIME FOR WARRIOR BATTLE.

And then lag happened.

[Imirak]

Zomg I say Imirak for the first time ever in pvp... and couldn't really fight him cause of lag, Dio either. Was teh suck. You guys held those south shops well though.

Ya, we held off a big assault on Westpark and then suddenly AMG LAG I CAN'T HIT ANYTHING.

Lag like that is freaking brutal for all melee. I try to run about 5 yards in front of the person I'm attacking and pray that they are running in the straight line :P

[Wobblebonk]

They need more members, so of course they are going to advertise ALL World PvP they are successful in.

Not quite, only the more unique or easily metricized events (that are usually scheduled), like Wintergrasp weekend, Operation: Ruminant Roofie, and premades.

[Chikt]

Lag like that is freaking brutal for all melee. I try to run about 5 yards in front of the person I'm attacking and pray that they are running in the straight line :P

It's brutal for everybody.

I'm like "Cast Lava Burst!" ... ... ... ... ... 30 seconds later "Oh they're already dead as your Lava Burst went off!"

Or "Cast Thunder Storm!" ... ... ... ... ... 30 seconds later "Oh, you're already dead before your Thunder Storm went off!"

[Lailinarel]

I was like, I'mma reflect this lava burst! 30 seconds later a frostbolt would bounce off my face.

[Yatokth]

I was like, I'mma reflect this lava burst! 30 seconds later a frostbolt would bounce off my face.

"Oh sweet I'm out of kidney shot, TIME TO MORTAL STRIKE JORINGIL'S FACE"

Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.

http://wow-tng.org/image.php?u=1854&dateline=1268765671

[Chikt]

Yeah, there's simply no defending with that lag. Even if you do get people organized and responsive. Took out the first wave of siege engines, a few got through on the east because of lag out there. Everybody moved into the keep - we just couldn't stop the siege vehicles. We couldn't kill other players or attack anything. I was casting Lava Burst for a full 30 seconds and then bam, The Alliance has captured Wintergrasp.

The funny part was when I punched Rocket Boots and they stayed active for a good 2 minutes, I ran all the way out of the fortress and half-way through Wintergrasp before they deactivated. Go go lag.

[Yatokth]

Yeah, there's simply no defending with that lag. Even if you do get people organized and responsive. Took out the first wave of siege engines, a few got through on the east because of lag out there. Everybody moved into the keep - we just couldn't stop the siege vehicles. We couldn't kill other players or attack anything. I was casting Lava Burst for a full 30 seconds and then bam, The Alliance has captured Wintergrasp.

The funny part was when I punched Rocket Boots and they stayed active for a good 2 minutes, I ran all the way out of the fortress and half-way through Wintergrasp before they deactivated. Go go lag.

I once bladestormed for 2 minutes in WG.

That was just my skill though.

[Imirak]

Yeah, there's simply no defending with that lag. Even if you do get people organized and responsive. Took out the first wave of siege engines, a few got through on the east because of lag out there. Everybody moved into the keep - we just couldn't stop the siege vehicles. We couldn't kill other players or attack anything. I was casting Lava Burst for a full 30 seconds and then bam, The Alliance has captured Wintergrasp.

The funny part was when I punched Rocket Boots and they stayed active for a good 2 minutes, I ran all the way out of the fortress and half-way through Wintergrasp before they deactivated. Go go lag.

In the next game I got booted out because it was full (pfft), so I flew around to the Wintergrasp Keep from the north. I would drop down, go to cat form and muck around with the Alliance for 3-4 seconds before getting ported out.

Pro tip: if you attack them rezzing at the Keep g/y, they are "immune" to your attacks. If you swoop down to the slope that goes to the eastern part of the keep, you *can* attack them. But you only get 4-5 seconds before you get ported back out :P

[Lailinarel]

"Oh sweet I'm out of kidney shot, TIME TO MORTAL STRIKE JORINGIL'S FACE"

Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.
Cannot do that while stunned.

http://wow-tng.org/image.php?u=1854&dateline=1268765671

I couldn't even see you, you were so stunned. Your princess was probably in another castle by then.

[Wobblebonk]

We won our first defensive premade today! 4 Tenacity at the beginning of the game, 2 at the end. NO HIDDEN BUFFS since we were on defense!

[Emyi]

Awesome!

I wish I had more time during the week to play. : /

[Imirak]

We won our first defensive premade today! 4 Tenacity at the beginning of the game, 2 at the end. NO HIDDEN BUFFS since we were on defense!

Does this clear your buffs for the next time you're on offense?

[Wobblebonk]

Does this clear your buffs for the next time you're on offense?

It bumps us down a notch. Next time we're on offense, we will only get instant Corporal, not 1st Lieutenant.

[Chikt]

It bumps us down a notch. Next time we're on offense, we will only get instant Corporal, not 1st Lieutenant.

So you only need 2 kills to hit 1st Lieutenant instead?

[Emyi]

So you only need 2 kills to hit 1st Lieutenant instead?

I think it is 1 kill for Corp then 10 kills to 1st Lieutenant.

[Chikt]

I think it is 1 kill for Corp then 10 kills to 1st Lieutenant.

That makes a bit more sense.

It at least prevents INSTANT SIEGE VEHICLE ZERG, which I can be happy with. But defending Wintergrasp is nigh impossible against a premade and with that ungodly lag. You guys should still have your victories, they just won't take place in the span of 5 minutes.

And it'll probably be before the end of the week you gain back your instant Lieutenant.

[Imirak]

It bumps us down a notch. Next time we're on offense, we will only get instant Corporal, not 1st Lieutenant.

Well, that's a good start towards returning to some kind of factional parity.

Kudos, and great work!

[Wobblebonk]

The <HRA> premade won a second defense game in a row. Which puts us at how many games total won in a row? One, two... too high to count! Wow!

[Yatokth]

Good work. My god, Horde just refused to D south that game.

[Wobblebonk]

Bawww. We lost defense to what I assume was a counter-raid in the south. They were already formed and just sitting on the *Spark workshops, and we couldn't make much headway till late in the game.

[Moknim]

I just hope that the premades show the allies that they can win. And then premades (on either side) won't be required.

[Yatokth]

Bawww. We lost defense to what I assume was a counter-raid in the south. They were already formed and just sitting on the *Spark workshops, and we couldn't make much headway till late in the game.

Not sure what it was, if you're talking about the game right after that, it seemed like there was just less allies moving that way, but there was definitely more horde there.

[Imirak]

Bawww. We lost defense to what I assume was a counter-raid in the south. They were already formed and just sitting on the *Spark workshops, and we couldn't make much headway till late in the game.

Hey Wobble, thanks for carrying the torch for Alliance pvp. I know a lot of people were skeptical given the history of WG, but you have proven that alliance can win against superior numbers with organization.

WG is really the only battleground that TN has where we can develop real factional rivalries, so it's important to keep it relevant.

[Wobblebonk]

While our defense premades are clearly strong, our successful defenses have necessitated a change in offense strategy -- 4 minute zergs are impossible without the hidden buffs given to the Alliance, and people outside the premade tend to fuck up whatever set plan we have by charging the wall with a single vehicle and drawing Horde attention.

This will require some thought.

[Yatokth]

Seriously, just tell everyone to zerg the middle on Offense.

[Wobblebonk]

Seriously, just tell everyone to zerg the middle on Offense.

Because that worked so well for the Horde the two games before that, right?

[Yatokth]

Because that worked so well for the Horde the two games before that, right?

By everyone I mean everyone who can only follow one thing. You take the smart people and go D south, and let the single-minded people just zerg middle. That's how we won the game after those two, and how we roflstomped the place for so long. Allies used to always flank and switch sides (before they could insta-siege rush), and Horde would go straight up the middle, and always win.

[Wobblebonk]

Allies used to always flank and switch sides (before they could insta-siege rush), and Horde would go straight up the middle, and always win.

All that proves is that the Alliance are even worse at defense than the Horde are at offense. The single-minded people should be camping the south workshops, not dictating offensive strategy.

[Raziel]

This is pretty much the same story of Alliance needing a pre-made to fight a horde mash-up of randoms.

But whatever. I realize what you're doing with all this reporting on a psychological level, so we'll see how long it takes for the inevitable result.

[Dahnek]

If only the majority of the horde cared as much as some of the posters here. Unfortunately apathy is the enemy of great PvP. It makes the Alliance for the most part sadly timid and the Horde for the most part comfortable with mindless zerging.

[Skaadvik]

This is pretty much the same story of Alliance needing a pre-made to fight a horde mash-up of randoms.

But whatever. I realize what you're doing with all this reporting on a psychological level, so we'll see how long it takes for the inevitable result.

The same story from what? Outlandergrasp? Kalimdorgrasp?

[Raziel]

You'll see

[Skaadvik]

I'll see the "same story?" The one that hasn't happened yet? Do you realize that doesn't make any sense?

[Wobblebonk]

Raziel means that he will go back to his glory days of leading Alterac Valley games against the Alliance, only this time it will be in Wintergrasp. The "inevitable result" is a coordinated backlash from the Horde who currently outnumber us 2:1. HRA has anticipated this, we've weighed the benefits of publicizing versus keeping a low profile, and we decided that it would be better for the Alliance to be proud of their faction and be inspired to put up a real fight -- even if we do begin losing again when the great pendulum of initiative swings back to red team.

[Skaadvik]

Ah, now I understand the obscure vanilla reference, and am purged of my ignorance. Kudos to you, Raz, for being a better player than I can ever hope to be by virtue of your startup date. I'm sorry I questioned your legitness.

[Dahnek]

Raziel means that he will go back to his glory days of leading Alterac Valley games against the Alliance, only this time it will be in Wintergrasp. The "inevitable result" is a coordinated backlash from the Horde who currently outnumber us 2:1. HRA has anticipated this, we've weighed the benefits of publicizing versus keeping a low profile, and we decided that it would be better for the Alliance to be proud of their faction and be inspired to put up a real fight -- even if we do begin losing again when the great pendulum of initiative swings back to red team.

Kudos to this.

I would be interested in seeing how a Horde premade would do, especially one built on the apathy of the majority and the stirred emotions of others. The Horde has and will always suffer from "too many chiefs, not enough indians". Any attempt I've seen to organize a group is usually met with derision and trolling. As we all know, more typing means less pew pew.

[Imirak]

Ah, now I understand the obscure vanilla reference, and am purged of my ignorance. Kudos to you, Raz, for being a better player than I can ever hope to be by virtue of your startup date. I'm sorry I questioned your legitness.

Don't let it happen again.

[Yatokth]

If only the majority of the horde cared as much as some of the posters here. Unfortunately apathy is the enemy of great PvP. It makes the Alliance for the most part sadly timid and the Horde for the most part comfortable with mindless zerging.

When zerging stops working, let me know.

Against good players:

Zerging doesn't work in Arathi Basin. Zerging doesn't work in Alterac Valley. Zerging doesn't work in Eye of the Storm.

Why?

They are well designed and well balanced PvP content.

WG isn't.

[Dahnek]

When zerging stops working, let me know.

Seems like recent WG fights are proving it doesn't work all the time. That mentality of "hey it works" leads to sloppy ends, infighting and finger pointing. A good smart group can beat a zerg. I've seen it happen. Often in fact.

[Skaadvik]

1 Bunker, 2 Firebats, 2 Marines=dead zerglings

[Zultingo]

You can fit five guys in a bunker bro.

[Skaadvik]

Obviously the fifth one is me. I'm a healer, dude.

[Urivial]

Whats the one unit that repairs shit? Drone? SVC- or somethin? Thats Skaad -sagenod-

[Lailinarel]

You can fit five guys in a bunker bro.

Not in the first SC or BW. Not unless they changed it in the last four months since I played.

Take your lackluster trolling elsewhere sir!

That said and on topic, I'm glad to see that you guys have been fairly successful, I don't participate in every WG, but I can't count the number of times we've lost and the entire battle I sat there wondering how our side was so bad. Mostly glad to see some level of coordination, it makes pvp less stressful.

[Urivial]

In the 11:30 battle it seemed like we outnumbered you guys at one point in the keep... with 3 stacks of tenacity... was that true? >.>

[Maithanet]

In the next minor content patch, we will be making some minor alterations to the way in which the internal balance system for Wintergrasp works in an attempt to better support realms with greater variations in the level of participation between the Alliance and Horde. Since we have never gone into much detail about how this hidden system currently works, we’d like to explain exactly how it will work in the next patch. Keep in mind that, although this information may feel very new to you, the actual changes being made in the patch to the current system are relatively minor.

Here are the key systems in place behind the hidden Wintergrasp advantages and how they will function in the upcoming patch:

* There is an internal tug-of-war scale not visible by players which will shift under specific conditions.
* The scale starts at 0 (neutral) and can move up to 700 points in either direction favoring the Alliance at one end, and Horde at the other.
* This scale is persistent and does not reset to 0 whenever control of Wintergrasp shifts.
* If an attacking force captures Wintergrasp Fortress while under the effects of any of the advantages listed below (400-700 points in their favor), the scale tips 100 points in favor of the opposing faction.
* If a defending force successfully defends Wintergrasp Fortress two battles in a row, the scale tips 100 points in favor of the opposing faction.
* Each consecutive successful defense after a faction’s first two consecutive defenses will further tip the scale 100 points in favor of the opposing faction.

o As a quick example, if the scale is at 0 and the Alliance capture Wintergrasp fortress while attacking, the scale will not move. If the Alliance defend Wintergrasp twice in a row after this, the scale will move 100 points in favor of the Horde. Each consecutive defense by the Alliance after this will move the scale 100 points further in favor of the Horde each time, bringing the Horde to 400 points in their favor after one unsuccessful defense and five unsuccessful attacks, a total of six Horde losses in a row.

o As another example, if the scale is at 400 in favor of the Horde and they capture Wintergrasp fortress while attacking, the scale will move 100 points in favor of the Alliance. If the Horde defend Wintergrasp twice in a row after this, the scale will move 100 points in favor of the Alliance. Each consecutive defense by the Horde after this will move the scale 100 points further in favor of the Alliance each time, bringing the Alliance to 100 points in their favor after one unsuccessful defense and five unsuccessful attacks, a total of six Alliance losses in a row.

* The following advantages are provided at the beginning of the battle for Wintergrasp whenever these corresponding ranges on the scale have been reached:

o 0-300: No advantages granted.
o 400: Faction starts with the Sunken Ring Factory under their control.
o 500: Faction starts with the Sunken Ring and Broken Temple Factories under their control.
o 600: Faction starts with the Sunken Ring and Broken Temple Factories under their control and gains access to Catapults after earning 1 kill in battle.
o 700: Faction starts with the Sunken Ring and Broken Temple Factories under their control and gains access to Catapults, Siege Engines, and Demolishers after earning 1 kill in battle.

For clarification.

[Chikt]

In the 11:30 battle it seemed like we outnumbered you guys at one point in the keep... with 3 stacks of tenacity... was that true? >.>

There was a LOT of Alliance in the keep, and from the looks of it quite a few down defending the towers. I was surprised that the Alliance had 3 stacks of Tenacity, put it that way.

[Dahnek]

It shouldn't be. Honestly most of the bloodthirsty players are Horde. Most players Alliance-side either never cared about PvP or have been railed so bad by Horde trains they start to walk crooked even thinking about PvP.

Generalization? You bet. But it was formed by my experiences on three different servers though. Tbh TN has the biggest chunk of Alliance still kicking and scratching, and it seems that number is growing. A good thing indeed.

[Yatokth]

Seems like recent WG fights are proving it doesn't work all the time. That mentality of "hey it works" leads to sloppy ends, infighting and finger pointing. A good smart group can beat a zerg. I've seen it happen. Often in fact.

Yes, but a good smart group is so rare in WG, mostly due to its size, that this is almost moot.

[Dahnek]

That kind of thinking however leads to Alliance sitting in cities not participating and Horde relying on stale main-assist macros. It does not promote growth or competition.

Look at it from this perspective - how boring would you find this game as a PvPer if you found TN suddenly a PvE server? If the closest thing you had to that rush was repetitive duels and battlegrounds against afkers and people you did not know?

If the worm turns and is packing an uzi, be happy. Hunting half-hearted prey is no joy.

[Wobblebonk]

Hunting half-hearted prey is no joy.

<------ why I transferred to Alliance

[Sejarki]

You heard 'em boys, if we just lie down maybe they'll get bored and go away!

[Ackley]

It seems that in response to the pre-made attempts, the horde has ramped up their efforts as well.

It takes an extreme amount of coordination to put together 3 siege zergs on the southern towers as well as maintaining a fairly good fortress presence. Either that you assholes are just lucky. We didn't have tenacity, so it wasn't like we were outnumbered.

[Imirak]

Either that you assholes are just lucky. We didn't have tenacity, so it wasn't like we were outnumbered.


No one is organizing on Vent, horde-side.

Outplayed, imo.

[Ackley]

No one is organizing on Vent, horde-side.

Outplayed, imo.

So it seems all claims that there are too many chiefs not enough indians hordeside is total bs?

Lol.

[Imirak]

So it seems all claims that there are too many chiefs not enough indians hordeside is total bs?

Lol.


You observed about the Horde:

It takes an extreme amount of coordination to.... as well as maintaining a fairly good fortress presence.

As well as:
it wasn't like we were outnumbered.

There has not been any organization of WG battles on horde-side in any of the matches I've played.

Conclusion: Outplayed. :D

[Ackley]

Conclusion: Outplayed. :D

Well my definition of outplayed is extreme coordination.

Soooooo, I don't see your point :D

[Chikt]

A bunch of randoms coordinating?

Yeah, right.

One of the most frustrating things ABOUT WG is that you make calls as to which direction an attack is going to come from minutes before it happens, and 90% of people are still shocked when it happens.

There is no coordination.

[Yatokth]

So it seems all claims that there are too many chiefs not enough indians hordeside is total bs?

Lol.

Having played Horde alot, here is my guess as to why what happened in your particular WG happened:

- There was a group of players who said "Hey, WG's coming up, let's go!" and decided to go hit those south towers with their 5-7 people, and about 5-7 more went to help them out because of randomness.

- There was a group of players who said "I'm gonna fucking win this shit" and got their rank up really quickly before smashing a side of a wall.

- There were two other groups of players who did the same thing, despite the fact that it would have been more effective to go for either one, or maybe two, defense depending, walls.

- The Alliance (as a majority) stood there with their thumb up their ass most of the game. This isn't a knock, I've just seen it happen, on both sides.

[Skaadvik]

thumb>ass symdrome is unique. It's unique to every faction on every server on every battlegroup, and every other multiplayer video game in the world.

[Raynell]

When it comes to the drive of victory, luck is hardly a factor.

Although...I suppose during one of the evening games, I was extremely lucky to have my siege engine live through enough punishment to crush the last tower with, like, 10 minutes on the clock.

It's definitely a lot more interesting to do WG now. There's a new sense of excitement, and a bit more competition than in pre-premade WGs.

[Chikt]

When it comes to the drive of victory, luck is hardly a factor.

Luck of the lag.

Lag wins Wintergrasp games. Because you can keep moving and attacking in a Siege Engine, but you can't keep moving and attacking a siege engine when you're lagging.

I can't even count the times I've stood in the central courtyard of Wintergrasp, ramping up a Lava Burst at a siege engine coming through a break in the wall, only to stand there casting for 20 seconds to see the siege engine jump to the fortress door and a "you are too far away" message to pop up on my screen.

[Raynell]

Luck of the lag.

*/cast Avenger's Shield at Siege Engine!*

You must be facing your target.
You must be facing your target.
You must be facing your target.
You must be facing your target.
You must be facing your target.
You must be facing your target.
You must be facing your target.

Yeah, that does play a big role in victories/losses. With that in mind, though, the battles that don't have a lag factor of over9000 boil down to a couple things. 1 - Numbers, and 2 - Drive. Alliance, at one point, lacked both. They're still suffering a little bit from the number crunch aspect of things, but with the premade in place, one could say that the drive has grown in leaps and bounds. If yesterday's evening games have shown anything, though, is that the Alliance trend of losses may continue with Horde "waking up" to the sudden rushes. I like to imagine the big string of successful premade offenses can be accredited to the Horde being a bit lethargic in their WG approach, as if "Oh, we'll just do what we've been doing for the past zillion or so WGs and stomp Alliance." When the Horde WGers realized that the Alliance wasn't going to take their ass-kickings without a decent fight, they adjusted accordingly, and regardless of who wants it badder than the other, effort combined with numbers and a significant gear gap will result in WG going back to being as lopsided as it was in the past.

Given that there are several other servers suffering from wild lopsidedness, it's a given that, no matter what you throw at the problem, the fix will eventually wear out and then you're forced to resorting to other solutions or, to the dismay of the underdogs on this and other servers, Alliance and Horde alike, just give up. Wintergrasp is horribly broken as is.

[Urivial]

Easy solution to all of this. Half of you become Alliance. Because its better then the horde.

[Trigin]

Easy solution to all of this. Half of you become Alliance. Because its better then the horde.

Pretty much this

[Yatokth]

Pretty much this

Thought you didn't like blood traitors. |:3

[Urivial]

hehehe

[Skaadvik]

|:3

what is this shit? testicle smiley? I knew all of you were scrotefaces.

[Chikt]

what is this shit? testicle smiley? I knew all of you were scrotefaces.

Have you seen Yat's beard? It pretty much is pubic hair.

B|

[Yatokth]

what is this shit? testicle smiley? I knew all of you were scrotefaces.

Sly cat is sly.


B|

Elvis is unamused.

>:}

RAPE FACE.

[Trigin]

Thought you didn't like blood traitors. |:3

Depends which side you choose

[Zultingo]

Easy solution to all of this. Half of you become Alliance. Because its better then the horde.


you don't have trolls.

[Trigin]

We have something better, DWARFS!!!!!

[Urivial]

you don't have trolls.

That's why i said half. Trolls = only reason to be horde.

[Chikt]

That's why i said half. Trolls = only reason to be horde.

Then...

Why were you a Blood Elf? The worst Horde race?

[Urivial]

Because I was a paladin first xD

[Chikt]

Because I was a paladin first xD

Which is TWICE as bad as just being a Blood Elf.

[Urivial]

Your opinion, not mine ;)

[Skaadvik]

Alliance are more awesome than Horde, and Paladins are more awesome than everyone. We are fueled by your tears.

[Chikt]

Alliance are more awesome than Horde, and Paladins are more awesome than everyone. We are fueled by your tears.

Shaman do have plenty of tears. T_T

[Zultingo]

That's why i said half. Trolls = only reason to be horde.

I dig orcs, and and infinite supply of cheeseburgers are an excellent choice.
But Mr. Australia brings up a good point.
Why, in all the worlds that Odin rules over, would you choose to be a blood elf?

The only thing that makes Alliance more rad than horde, is that they have paladins who don't eat a dick the size of the universe every morning for breakfast to fuel their persistent existence.

But that doesn't make dwarves more awesome than trolls.


Because nothing is more awesome than trolls.

And the only motherfucking tears shaman are fueled on are our own........goddammit.

[Skaadvik]

Yes, but your tears fuel the powers of others as well.

Where do you think Holy Lights come from?

[Zultingo]

STOP HARVESTING MY TEARS!
I should have had to sign a waiver for that or something.

[Fhenrir]

Just a reminder that debating factions doesn't really have anything to do with Wintergrasp Premades. I've been pretty lax on that, but this is getting to the point of being a pretty solid derail.

[Jeedup]

Just a reminder that debating factions doesn't really have anything to do with Wintergrasp Premades. I've been pretty lax on that, but this is getting to the point of being a pretty solid derail.

I heard you like Mudkips.

Confirm/Deny please.

[Fhenrir]

Confirm. Really though, WG premade and the like!

[Skaadvik]

I think we're kind of going back to WG discussion every time one happens.

[Fhenrir]

Logic. I'll just do something about the off topic swings if anybody starts caring then.

[Skaadvik]

On topic, I think that if our server's WG situation improves as a whole we might be able to use it as a model for other servers in similar (or even worse) situations to help themselves out as well.

I'm speaking from the Alliance perspective, but even for the side it's in favor of, it can't be fun to win all the time with no competition. It's a pretty unhealthy environment for PvP on both sides of such an imbalance.

[Zultingo]

I did a WG the other night where the mofuckas had 20 stacks of tenacity
Most boring WG ever, all I did was kill npcs till I ranked up and went and catapaulted the towers for fucking hours so that we wouldn't be stuck in the damn place for more hours.

[Raynell]

So I heard the Alliance defended WG. Twice.

Good shit. /props

[Imirak]

So I heard the Alliance defended WG. Twice.

Good shit. /props

last Wednesday afternoon.

[Emyi]

I did a WG the other night where the mofuckas had 20 stacks of tenacity
Most boring WG ever, all I did was kill npcs till I ranked up and went and catapaulted the towers for fucking hours so that we wouldn't be stuck in the damn place for more hours.

That WG was FUN on my side! Nothing like have 200k health and dropping down in a group of 10 people trying to take Broken Temple and Bladestorming them to death. I think in the first three swings, I killed about 4-5 people.

[Imirak]

That WG was FUN on my side! Nothing like have 200k health and dropping down in a group of 10 people trying to take Broken Temple and Bladestorming them to death. I think in the first three swings, I killed about 4-5 people.

Awww, you should have fraps'd that!

[Emyi]

Awww, you should have fraps'd that!

I know. >.< I need to get that program.

But people would make fun of my clicking. :<

[Urivial]

S'ok Clickers will someday rule the world ^.^

[Skaadvik]

Solution: stop clicking!

[Imirak]

I know. >.< I need to get that program.

But people would make fun of my clicking. :<

So don't care? :P

[Raziel]

Raziel means that he will go back to his glory days of leading Alterac Valley games against the Alliance, only this time it will be in Wintergrasp. The "inevitable result" is a coordinated backlash from the Horde who currently outnumber us 2:1. HRA has anticipated this, we've weighed the benefits of publicizing versus keeping a low profile, and we decided that it would be better for the Alliance to be proud of their faction and be inspired to put up a real fight -- even if we do begin losing again when the great pendulum of initiative swings back to red team.

No, not quite.

I'm a bit more long-term in my vision than that Irontoe.

[-Teleara-]

Sounds like I may actually play WG again.

[Dahnek]

Bumping for a good idea. This still going on? What is the record looking like now?

[Raynell]

I think the results are becoming a bit more mixed. Some days the Premades just roll, on others, they come up lacking. That being said, I'm still on my toes in every WG, so I'll say that the strategy is still effective.

[Urivial]

It makes the games more interesting. But its actually been a while since Wobble did one I think. He's looking for people in HRA to step up and do them so he can find potential Officers.

[The Bjarnistone]

I've quite enjoyed these so far.

[Dahnek]

It makes the games more interesting. But its actually been a while since Wobble did one I think. He's looking for people in HRA to step up and do them so he can find potential Officers.


Worrisome. Hopefully HRA won't go the way of FDI. takes more then one man to make a monster.

[Emyi]

It makes the games more interesting. But its actually been a while since Wobble did one I think. He's looking for people in HRA to step up and do them so he can find potential Officers.

Actually, he has led one the past two days.

[Urivial]

Mk, I stand corrected then. But I do think he's looking for more people to step up to the plate.

[Emyi]

He is. I have attempted to lead a few that I got to late due to various reasons. BUt those games were usually VERY one sided from the beginning.

[Skaadvik]

Doesn't help that 1/3 of the leadership is inactive pending internet in my new place and a new comp. Sounds like the fort is being held down though.

[Emyi]

OH HEY SKAADVIK I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW YOU WERE GONE. [kidding]

[Raziel]

Doesn't help that 1/3 of the leadership is inactive pending internet in my new place and a new comp. Sounds like the fort is being held down though.

It's being held down all right, by the Horde.

[The Bjarnistone]

Just led my first successful premade 5 minutes ago.

Thanks Cytiana for helping PuG, thanks for Irontoe for the strategy, and thanks for all who came!

[Urivial]

Gratz Bjarn


I also just won a WG waround 2 minutes ago. Didn't need to make a premade, and didnt need vent. Instructions and RL is all it took. Not a single of our 16 sieges was destroyed.

[Raynell]

Gratz Bjarn


I also just won a WG waround 2 minutes ago. Didn't need to make a premade, and didnt need vent. Instructions and RL is all it took. Not a single of our 16 sieges was destroyed.

The title of the thread is WINTERGRASP PREMADES.

You're obviously defeating the purpose of the thread, and trying to derail it.

That being said, any improvements on the Defensive aspect of the Premades?

[Urivial]

Nope, not really... it really just comes down the sheer numbers on D... while we have enough on Alli to make most offensive games equal if the people care i.e. Tuesdays. No one wants to try D except for about 50 people.

[Raynell]

Nope, not really... it really just comes down the sheer numbers on D... while we have enough on Alli to make most offensive games equal if the people care i.e. Tuesdays. No one wants to try D except for about 50 people.

Ah, understandable. Seems a bit discouraging, only having half the problem solved, though I definitely commend the offensive effort. Couldn't you scare up some of the more under-the-radar PvP guilds on that side? Where be the Flawless Victors?