PvP Guild Recruitment Policies

[Jikara]

Forgive the long title as I really couldn't think of a shorter way to title this thread. This topic is aimed at the various hardcore RP/PvP guilds for both factions on TN. What I'm basically wondering is how do you view recruiting of toons who have either a main or seious alt on the opposite faction?

Do you recruit without worry? Do you have rules that must be followed (aside from the obvious ones such as not tracking, or reporting of plans to the other faction)? Or is recruiting completely closed off for those seeking admission if they have a toon on the other faction?

Speaking for the Outriders we're very accepting of other factions members but we also aren't what I'd call "hardcore PvP" at this point. Although we're trying to become much more active, should we become a major Horde PvP force I don't see our policy changing much.

[Chikt]

With the Raven Cross I think it's more of a concern how well somebody can RP in the guild. A big part of whether or not they get in is how they handle RP mixed with PvP.

The Application process isn't long, but it's one of the longer ones. A posted application on our website, followed by an in-game interview in which people duel the applicant. Whether or not they win or lose the duels isn't the point - it's how they in-characterly deal with the fact that (in most cases) they're getting the shit beaten out of them.

So I suppose, really, our application process is much more RP than PvP.

My personal thing is that you can be MADE into a good PvPer. If you have a high arena rating, awesome PvP gear, are the most amazing PvP strategist in the world - NONE of that shit matters if you are a terrible RPer. And I'd like to think that (in future) we're going to be laying a bit more emphasis on RP and the quality of it as a guild.

[Skaadvik]

Horde main recruits undergo more close investigation and observation.

Yes Niaam, we bugged your phone.

Yes, you're fucked.

[Wobblebonk]

Horde main recruits undergo more close investigation and observation.

This. HRA vets them, including asking around Horde side if we've never heard of them.

[Zultingo]

I'm kinda surprised HRA doesn't require a picture of one's login screen for entry. Wobble probably had that idea and everybody told him it was too intense. But it's not like it hasn't been done before, in far more cutthroat games than this.

[Jikara]

Actually for a guild like HRA that takes PvP as seriously as it does thats not a bad idea really.

[Svetlaena]

If people aren't douchebags you don't have anything to fear from opposite faction mains or alts.

I do believe it's really that simple, and I say this as someone who plays both sides and manages not to cause problems with that.

[Sabachthan]

The problem, Svet, is your conditional.

[Chikt]

I'm of the opinion that it shouldn't matter. I mean, what is a person with a Horde alt joining the HRA going to do? Track them? He could do that outside the guild. Being in it might get him specifics, but asking "Oh, hey, where exactly are you guys right now?" and then 5 minutes later a raid of Horde turn up... kinda suspicious.

I don't care if people have an Alliance alt or main. If we do fights with them and they're an active participating member of the guild. If they are running to their friends on the Alliance and telling them "Hey, the Raven Cross are here right now, come kill them", then we're going to find out eventually, and that's only going to cause a shitstorm.

We had Irontoe in the Raven Cross for a good long while despite our history with him because the pros outweighed the cons. If he went to the Alliance and reported on our whereabouts, we'd figure it out and he'd be removed - we lost a few fights. Big deal. But if he happens to become a good member of the guild, then we've gained something.

Unnecessarily intimidating away members with a pretty heavy request like a screenshot of a log in screen... members that could possibly learn something or bring something to the guild; that seems like only a good way to make a bad reputation for yourself, I think.

But then I've come to realize I don't nearly take my PvP or this game in general as serious as some people.

[Draekon]

I'm of the opinion that it shouldn't matter. I mean, what is a person with a Horde alt joining the HRA going to do? Track them? He could do that outside the guild. Being in it might get him specifics, but asking "Oh, hey, where exactly are you guys right now?" and then 5 minutes later a raid of Horde turn up... kinda suspicious.

I don't care if people have an Alliance alt or main. If we do fights with them and they're an active participating member of the guild. If they are running to their friends on the Alliance and telling them "Hey, the Raven Cross are here right now, come kill them", then we're going to find out eventually, and that's only going to cause a shitstorm.

This.

Frostwolf Brotherhood follows about the same thing. We actually have people in our guild that have Alliance mains, and as long as they aren't abusing the guild in some way, we're happy to have them even if we may kill them on their other character. PvP is not personal unless you make it so by tracking, abusing the guild in some way, or just being a douche.

[Chikt]

This.

Frostwolf Brotherhood follows about the same thing. We actually have people in our guild that have Alliance mains, and as long as they aren't abusing the guild in some way, we're happy to have them even if we may kill them on their other character. PvP is not personal unless you make it so by tracking, abusing the guild in some way, or just being a douche.

Exactly. In essence: PvP isn't serious business.

I think however FWB and RC are both very RP oriented guilds (RP quality before PvP quality) so perhaps we're the wrong people to ask or be giving an opinion.

[Skaadvik]

I'm kinda surprised HRA doesn't require a picture of one's login screen for entry. Wobble probably had that idea and everybody told him it was too intense. But it's not like it hasn't been done before, in far more cutthroat games than this.



http://www.wta.org/volunteer/photos/youth/tents%20at%20Wallace%20Falls%20small.jpg

[Emyi]

Honestly, I do not and did not mind HRAs methods of picking apart who is and is not a Horde main. Before the ability to have both factions on one account on a PVP server, it would have been a bit much, in my opinion. But with the changes to this and the severe imbalance of Alliance to Horde RPers (and players in general), it makes things a tad bit more rough on the Alliance.

World PVP is, most of the time, one sided without leaks and threats. Which is fine. We do love a challenge! But when it is caused by someone who is in your guild or someone who is hanging out in your channel, relaying that sort of information across the line and making an already one sided fight completely tip the scale, it's under handed.

Honestly, it is rough trying to scrounge people together when you have a much smaller pool to sometimes face grind into a brick wall of red, and when the numbers even get close to being even, it is quickly fixed with more Horde showing up. No, PVP isn't srs business. WoW isn't srs business. But enjoying the game is, to me. And when someone tries to snake out attempts at a city raid and the Alliance end up outnumber 3 to 1, it ruins what fun there is.

I do not mind losing one bit so long as it is done on even grounds. Hell, I lose alot of the time on my own. I'm used to it. I will give it my all each and every time. But as I said, when someone puts that 1 ton weight on an already uneven scale, it ruins it.

So, yes, it may seem a bit anal from the red side of the fence, but from our side, it helps to weed out the rats (Illisade) and give us a slight chance.

*My personal opinions do not reflect the entirety of HRA and it's members.*

[CytianaMoonarrow]

My own personal opinions have brought HRA a lot of grief lately when it comes to recruitment policies (Sorry guys!), and they stand not on either side, but in the middle of the spectrum.

Generally, when it comes to recruitment for an RPPvP guild (I've been a recruiter for the Dusk Watch, and now HRA), I generally look for 3 things;

1) If I talk to them ICly, how they respond to me in-character. If their responses are fluid, and not full of grammatical mistakes (IE: u versus you, etc.), nor text speak ("lol"), then I feel there's something to consider.

2) I check their gear, and PvP tab. If I'm seeing one or two pieces of PvP gear, and a half-decent number of HK's (2-6k), and they prove themselves to me (IE: I've seen them in BG's, WG, or World PvP), then I know they're committed to PvP. I've got the proof, and really don't need anything else.

3) Their presentability. If they treat me respectfully OOCly, and aren't bothering me 24/7 about their app, or other things, I generally have respect for that person. If while I'm talking to them, they ask intelligent questions about the guild even better (It shows they want to know what they're getting into). If I've heard things about them from other people (Helloo gossip!), then I'll generally take that into consideration before giving them a final answer.

So basically, their IC side, PvP side, and overall OOC personality. If they're an OOC idiot, I'll think against it, and I'd talk it over with the guys before actually making a final decision.

I definitely though, agree about having requirements to an RPPvP guild. You want to promote positive imagery for your guild, and your guildmates, so why let in someone who could really make your name and image look bad? On a server where almost EVERYONE knows the next person, it's a pretty good thing to have, imo.

[Chikt]

So basically, their IC side, PvP side, and overall OOC personality. If they're an OOC idiot, I'll think against it, and I'd talk it over with the guys before actually making a final decision.

I essentially agree about all of your points - I think the IC part of the app is the most important, as otherwise you're going to end out with a guild full of douchebags that are awesome PvPers but terrible RPers.

[Urivial]

And while theres nothing wrong with a terrible RPer whos willing to learn... most of the time they aren't willing to learn.

[Draekon]

And while theres nothing wrong with a terrible RPer whos willing to learn... most of the time they aren't willing to learn.

I've run into a lot of those. There are also the good RPers who refuse to learn how to gear/play their class as well.

While I do value a good RPer in my guild, I expect them (If they outright suck in PvP) to at least try to learn on the other aspects.

[CytianaMoonarrow]

That is completely true. I've gotten whispers while recruiting asking me if what I'm recruiting for is a heavy RP guild. My general response is that no, we're not heavy RP, but you will be required to RP at some point in time, as some of our events will be in-character. I then tell them that not everyone in our guild is a true-RP'er, so there's really nothing to worry about, as long as you're cool with what you do.


I essentially agree about all of your points - I think the IC part of the app is the most important, as otherwise you're going to end out with a guild full of douchebags that are awesome PvPers but terrible RPers.

Yes. I've noticed this lately with a couple of things, and it really strangles the RP out of people. We had something lately with a straight up PvP'er who came to something, and the RP was really hurt by it, so I heard from the people I attended with. Not hard, but you could feel something different from it.

So even if they're not RP'ers, you have to be really careful when bringing them to an RP event. Their respect, and politeness has to be in line with the others, otherwise the shit hits the fan.

[Chikt]

Yes. I've noticed this lately with a couple of things, and it really strangles the RP out of people. We had something lately with a straight up PvP'er who came to something, and the RP was really hurt by it, so I heard from the people I attended with. Not hard, but you could feel something different from it.

So even if they're not RP'ers, you have to be really careful when bringing them to an RP event. Their respect, and politeness has to be in line with the others, otherwise the shit hits the fan.

There has to be a guild-wide respect and understanding that when RP happens that everybody is going to either be A) expected to be involved or B) expected to be respectful of it.

We didn't really get our application process down pat until a few months back, which is in actual fact more IC a process than OOC. We've made a lot of our RPers into respectable PvPers (myself included) and honestly, I think the Raven Cross is definitely leaning a lot more towards being an RP-PvP guild in Cataclysm, rather than an RP-PvP guild.

If that makes any sense.

One person I spoke to about the Cross made a very good point. When they looked at the Raven Cross as a guild, they saw PvPers. But when they looked at the particular members in the guild, they saw RPers. That's not the image we want for the guild - or at least, not what I want for the guild. I'd much rather the Raven Cross be recognized as RPers with members that PvP rather than PvPers with members that RP.

I guess the point I am trying to make is about getting a clear image in your head as to how you want your guild to be portrayed to others through the recruitment process. It sounds like HRA has already decided to be the latter, which is a good thing - it'll make it a LOT easier in future getting that application and recruitment process down pat. It doesn't make sense for the RC to put such an emphasis on RP and then only really PvP together and only RP at guild meetings. But if HRA is a guild that PvP's with RP on the side, it definitely seems like a better idea to emphasize PvP quality over RP quality.

[CytianaMoonarrow]

I did notice this a couple weeks back, when I actually started looking at the Cross, Dio. I notice now, versus when I was in the Dusk Watch some months ago, you guys focus more on your RP and the quality of it. That's not to say that you've let your PvP go- you've still got that down in it's entirety (I wince thinking at the complete ownage). I think it's a good idea to take a break from one, to focus on another, really.

The person who looked at you and saw PvP'ers shares a similar opinion with myself. I used to look at you guys and think not the entirety of Raven Cross, but Unulu, Yatokth, Yusegarr, Szodrin, Serenity and Cyrandra. The top PvP. Now however, I see a wider range of you. I can see who your most prominent RP'ers are (Hey Lysi!) and where your most prominent PvP'ers are (Hey Cyr!), and all them in the middle. The fact that you're putting more work to expand each of your RP plates will probably be a good thing for the Raven Cross. It'll bring you all back! I was surprised to hop into Ravenooc on an alt the other night and see THAT many of you in game! Looks like you guys are making the comeback?

HRA is as far as I know, trying to become both. Most of our members do RP, and on a frequent basis. There are very few who really do not. Our application process, which has been implemented really recently asks new applicants if they RP, and to give a short history on their characters. However though, many of our members (Rohan and Emyi being fine examples) do RP. Rohan and Emyi just stick out to me, because I see them around constantly - one of them even followed me to Darnassus just yesterday to pawn off a pug!

We are however, predominantly PVPRP, and will probably remain that way, simply because our PvP takes priority over our RP. Our PvP is our RP, as you've seen from a few threads posted by some of our members already. A lot of us are proud to call it our RP, and content at the same time by it. Sure, we all get together every so often to have a good round or two in the Stormwind Tavern, but, PvP RP is a lot more interesting than the tavern RP at times.

And the stuff you guys don't see from us; Major (Commendant? Whatever he is now) Wobblebonk shitfaced, Geofforan stuffing crackers into his comm, the threats tossed back and forth between our members ICly joking-- that's the kind of RP we really keep to ourselves, not because we want to hoard it, but that we're all busy with other things (PvP, raids, life), I'm assuming.

[Urivial]

I did notice this a couple weeks back, when I actually started looking at the Cross, Dio. I notice now, versus when I was in the Dusk Watch some months ago, you guys focus more on your RP and the quality of it. That's not to say that you've let your PvP go- you've still got that down in it's entirety (I wince thinking at the complete ownage). I think it's a good idea to take a break from one, to focus on another, really.

The person who looked at you and saw PvP'ers shares a similar opinion with myself. I used to look at you guys and think not the entirety of Raven Cross, but Unulu, Yatokth, Yusegarr, Szodrin, Serenity and Cyrandra. The top PvP. Now however, I see a wider range of you. I can see who your most prominent RP'ers are (Hey Lysi!) and where your most prominent PvP'ers are (Hey Cyr!), and all them in the middle. The fact that you're putting more work to expand each of your RP plates will probably be a good thing for the Raven Cross. It'll bring you all back! I was surprised to hop into Ravenooc on an alt the other night and see THAT many of you in game! Looks like you guys are making the comeback?

HRA is as far as I know, trying to become both. Most of our members do RP, and on a frequent basis. There are very few who really do not. Our application process, which has been implemented really recently asks new applicants if they RP, and to give a short history on their characters. However though, many of our members (Rohan and Emyi being fine examples) do RP. Rohan and Emyi just stick out to me, because I see them around constantly - one of them even followed me to Darnassus just yesterday to pawn off a pug!

We are however, predominantly PVPRP, and will probably remain that way, simply because our PvP takes priority over our RP. Our PvP is our RP, as you've seen from a few threads posted by some of our members already. A lot of us are proud to call it our RP, and content at the same time by it. Sure, we all get together every so often to have a good round or two in the Stormwind Tavern, but, PvP RP is a lot more interesting than the tavern RP at times.

And the stuff you guys don't see from us; Major (Commendant? Whatever he is now) Wobblebonk shitfaced, Geofforan stuffing crackers into his comm, the threats tossed back and forth between our members ICly joking-- that's the kind of RP we really keep to ourselves, not because we want to hoard it, but that we're all busy with other things (PvP, raids, life), I'm assuming.

:O, :|, :D


EDIT: And yes, we've been more active for a while now.

[Chikt]

I replied to you in a blog (http://wow-tng.org/blog.php?b=4847), Cytiana, since I didn't want to make this thread all about HRA/RC and leave the discussion topic on track.

Basically Jikara, I think the tl;dr version of the conversation I was having with Cytiana was that you should have a good idea of what you want your guild to be before you decide on a recruitment policy. If you're leaning towards more PvP than RP, cater to improving PvP, and vice versa.

[Imirak]

Exactly. In essence: PvP isn't serious business.


It's not.. It's fun.

Personally, I wish faction transfers were cheap so I could occasionally switch Imirak back and forth to enjoy both sides (I don't have time to play two 80s).

I don't consider anyone on the alliance side to be an "enemy" that I wouldn't play alongside if I were a nelf druid.

[Skaadvik]

I consider every Horde player to be an enemy worthy of nothing more than a boot to the head.


That said, I find some of your company rather enjoyable.

[Necroxis]

The Dusk Watch really doesn't have any strict policies regarding recruitment. We have people with Horde main and we've yet to have any major incidents (One so far that we're investigating but that's it).

While not as, and I use this term very loosely, "hardcore" as RC or HRA or whomever it might be, basically our pvp requirement is that people just participate occasionally (But then there are people who ALWAYS respond to like every ping such as Catilyn).

As it currently stands, despite what some of our membership may think or say, we're more of an RP guild than PvP, at least in my mind. And that isn't to say that I dislike PvP or anything, it just is quite apparent that we're not as crazy with it as other guilds. Its more about an RP community with us with pvp infused all along in it.

So yeah...that's our "policy:"

a.) Level 60 and above flag at all times (We do realize some people don't do this on occasion -- and it's being worked on.)

b.) Engage in some pvp type of events on a fairly regular basis. This can be either PvP RP events (Such as attacks on faction cities), BG nights, or city defense.

For me, as an officer, when I interview people, I look more for whether or not they mesh with the guild and have at least some semblance of RP skills rather than if they're good at pvp. As I've said in our OOC multiple times, I'd rather lose pvp fights with people I enjoy playing with than win with those I don't.