[Event] Invictus Sanctum Social

[Aiyan]

Invictus Sanctum meets up for social events in Stormwind City at the end of the working week as a way to kick back and relax a bit. This is a great chance to get involved with some RPers and to make some network connections. We usually meet up around 7, and are somewhere around SW.

Please note: This isn't an invitation for Horde rogues to pay us a visit. Trying to promote RP more effectively. If you're after a fight, though, you'll certainly get one :P

[Irontoe]

I and others would be happy to guard said event from Horde rogues.

[Aleria Fadeleaf]

Trust me, if you post it, they will come. I've learned this the hard way over the past five weeks.

[Ackley]

I don't foresee a problem... There will be quite a few talented pvp'ers in attendance I believe

[Vyn]

Toesies will be guarding it. It will be safe.

And besides... most of them will be in their PvP gear, I'll bet.

[Aiyan]

This is why there's no social RP :P It becomes a PvP event

[Ackley]

This is why there's no social RP :P It becomes a PvP event

Kinda your fault for putting it out here in the open for all horde to see =P

[Irontoe]

This is why there's no social RP :P It becomes a PvP event

I am afraid there is very little anyone can do about that short of holding the event in a remote location, RPing in a Sanctuary zone, announcing the event in an Alliance-only forum, avoiding explicitly calling out Horde rogues within the actual announcement post...

Oh wait.

[Kyrion]

Hide your lowbies.

[Vyn]

Yep, well, since I flag on principal, I won't be attending. Periettel killing me repeatedly in SW doesn't sound like good times.

Or I could MAN THE FUCK UP and hit 80 on a character...

[Aiyan]

*giggles* I offer Illisade a smorgasbord of 80s, and he sees fit to target the lowbies... Why am I not surprised in the slightest?

[Irontoe]

But Vyn! If you're not there, who will bait Periettel and Illisade out of stealth?

[CytianaMoonarrow]

Seems interesting. I just may be interested. -shifty gaze-

[Raynell]

If I show up in RP gear, will you promise not to hurt me? >.>

[Vyn]

But Vyn! If you're not there, who will bait Periettel and Illisade out of stealth?

You can make an alt and quickly jump in and out of the two characters. Unless your computer is slow. In which case, you're screwed.

[Irontoe]

If I show up in RP gear, will you promise not to hurt me? >.>

Can't hurt to try, right?

[Rand_Shea]

The event being in Stormwind should deter at least half the people who would crash it just to get a pvp fight going. There is also (whether you like it/agree with it or not as a mechanic/tactic/whatever) the option of deflagging as to not get destroyed by a visiting horde rogue.

It's a shame that social events now have to be so cloistered. Restraint and balance are virtues in short supply lately.

[Aiyan]

Pfft, if anything, I think it's the visiting Horde rogue who'd get destroyed by a dozen RPers with PvP gear.

[Irontoe]

It's a shame that social events now have to be so cloistered. Restraint and balance are virtues in short supply lately.

Oh please. Guarded isn't the same as cloistered. If you treat all the successful Horde incursions into our capitals as things that actually happened in character (minus, say, Varian being corpse humped by forty pugs a dozen different times), then I would fully expect every establishment in Stormwind to hire extra protection. "A Forsaken man called Petunia Petal murdered three merchants last week! Time to factor armed guards into the budget." Restraint my ass. The Horde have given you a wonderful opportunity to include real, player-generated events in your RP instead of metagaming gibberish and stale tavern banter.

If you want a impenetrable bubble of serenity to surround your every peaceful encounter with another player, transfer to Moon Guard. Hope you don't mind the blood elves cybering in the Blue Recluse.

[Aiyan]

Woot, Horde are attacking. Yaaaay... That's... new...? I love it how there's so much variety on this server when it comes to 'acceptable RP' in Irontoe's eyes. You clearly have to be involved in some sort of PvP scheme for him to so much as glance at you.

Yay, the Horde are slicing into people in Stormwind. Let's make an RP of it involving as many RP guilds and RPers as possible, let it run for the course of a year, and see if people enjoy it and stay interested in a few dead NPCs that resurrect anyway. Once again, great to see how all 'successful' RP seems to have to orbit around PvP. Excuse a man for wanting a change after seeing enough RP guilds that want to kill the other faction. Surely 'cliche' and 'overdone' are on the list of your 'bad RP schemes'?

Now, a society that's striving for a truce between factions on the brink of war to accomplish a greater goal... That to me sounds far more refreshing than "Yay, let's do some more PvP kkgo!". Plus, thanks to the wonders of Faction Change, the majority of RPers would get their asses handed to them by the higher population of RP PvPers Horde side at the slightest WHIFF of PvP action.

Go for what's juicy, and what's most interesting in a scene - don't beat a dead Fordragon Imports, I mean, horse.

[Irontoe]

Woot, Horde are attacking. Yaaaay... That's... new...?

That is the game, though, isn't it? That's a huge chunk of the lore and the basis of every Warcraft game. To revert to my Texan roots, "If you don't like mah lore, then git out!"


I love it how there's so much variety on this server when it comes to 'acceptable RP' in Irontoe's eyes. You clearly have to be involved in some sort of PvP scheme for him to so much as glance at you.

That is quite a leap of logic from what I actually said.


Yay, the Horde are slicing into people in Stormwind. Let's make an RP of it involving as many RP guilds and RPers as possible, let it run for the course of a year, and see if people enjoy it and stay interested in a few dead NPCs that resurrect anyway.

Like Nefarian?


Once again, great to see how all 'successful' RP seems to have to orbit around PvP.

I love how you put the word "successful" in quotes as if it isn't true. No guild had gotten as many new RPers as Fordragon Imports (or Dusk Watch, as far as I know) in a long time. It was a fairly straightforward RP-PvP premise with a devious but relatively simple twist. Your Lotus venture, on the other hand, requires pages of reading to catch up to the present, and then you find out that you actually had to participate in it for the last few months to get a true picture of what happened (otherwise you might be led to believe that it was god-moded metagamey crap).


Excuse a man for wanting a change after seeing enough RP guilds that want to kill the other faction. Surely 'cliche' and 'overdone' are on the list of your 'bad RP schemes'?

God, I know, right? And talk about those raiding guilds. Always killing bosses and getting loot drops. Geez, don't you think that PvE gameplay is a little cliché and overdone?

[Aleria Fadeleaf]

Oh please. Guarded isn't the same as cloistered. If you treat all the successful Horde incursions into our capitals as things that actually happened in character (minus, say, Varian being corpse humped by forty pugs a dozen different times), then I would fully expect every establishment in Stormwind to hire extra protection. "A Forsaken man called Petunia Petal murdered three merchants last week! Time to factor armed guards into the budget." Restraint my ass. The Horde have given you a wonderful opportunity to include real, player-generated events in your RP instead of metagaming gibberish and stale tavern banter.

If you want a impenetrable bubble of serenity to surround your every peaceful encounter with another player, transfer to Moon Guard. Hope you don't mind the blood elves cybering in the Blue Recluse.

To an extent, Irontoe, I agree with you in saying that we should expect PVP. On a PVP server, it's the beloved child that we all want to nurture and take care of. We want to see the child grow, but at the same time, I recognize that there also has to be some accountability. If you're having a wedding, and this child runs around and knocks over the man serving champaigne, starts hitting people for no reason, and eats the entire wedding cake before anyone can even get to it, I will interpret the excuse that "we must love and nurture the child, and therefore be tolerant" as "I'm a bad parent, I don't want to take responsibility."

The problem with many of these attacks is that they are hardly done in the spirit of RP. Just Got Honor, for example, was once notorious for targetted raids against the Golden Tree, hosted by House Blackstone. What I learned recently is that their actions were against the ToS.

http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=20458&parentCategoryId&pageNumber=1&categoryId=2415

(Read under Verbal/Physical Harassment targetting Role-Players.)

Does this mean I think we all should start running around reporting people? No, because occasional PVP does add some flavor to the game, sometimes you want to introduce the child to wedding guests, and that's fine, but the excuse that all PVP on an RP-PVP server is acceptable does have its limits.

[Aiyan]

PvP might be a huge chunk of the game, and indeed our server, and given the fact the majority of RP guilds I know actively engage in PvP, I think our RP dynamics reflect this. However, it is hardly the be all and end all of Warcraft lore, and anyone who believes that RP should be as monotonic as possible is asking for an RP guild to offer nothing different than what the Dusk Watch, or the RC or the SWRC already do. Going for something different to the norm and gaining interest in it is a testament to this.


Quote:
I love it how there's so much variety on this server when it comes to 'acceptable RP' in Irontoe's eyes. You clearly have to be involved in some sort of PvP scheme for him to so much as glance at you.

That is quite a leap of logic from what I actually said.

A leap of logic from what you actually said? I'm sorry, Irontoe, I thought that was your area of expertise, no? : }

I put 'successful' RP in quotation marks because 'successful' really is a matter of opinion. In this circumstance, the 'success' was that measured by you, and considering your definition of successful RP might differ from another's, I saw the need to use inverted commas.

The pages of reading supposedly required to get involved in the Lotus RP is actually a lot shorter, comprising of about three or four posts. If a character's involvement is to be dictated by what the player reads on a forum, then I really wonder what'll become of RP... The summary's there to alert people as to what's happening, but how a character gets updated or informed of what's going on is very different in game. And believe it or not, there's no substitute for experience, no matter how much reading you do, so of COURSE I agree with you when you say: " you actually had to participate in it for the last few months to get a true picture of what happened". I'm glad you came to realise this :) Maybe next time you'll keep that in mind before starting a blog.


God, I know, right? And talk about those raiding guilds. Always killing bosses and getting loot drops. Geez, don't you think that PvE gameplay is a little cliché and overdone?

Personally I don't, no. PvE gameplay constantly changes with expansions and patches, offering fresh, new and exciting storylines and villains that just about anybody can sink their teeth into. I find that much more active than 'the steady march towards the inevitable war between the factions', which pretty much goes on anyway with current PvP activity. Adding something different to the mixture gives it more flavour, instead of simply adding more of the same to keep it bland. PvP related RP already exists and thrives, I see a much more beneficial route by exploring as many RP avenues as possible.

Anyways, didn't mean for this thread to get derailed, but an obvious jab like- Oh, what's this? You edited your post, sir? No matter. No further derailment necessary.

So as I said, Invictus Sanctum Social on Friday evenings for RP in Stormwind City. Horde, if you honestly have nothing better to do on your Friday evening, then I guess we'll kill you to at least give you something to do. Toodles!

[Ackley]

Go for what's juicy, and what's most interesting in a scene - don't beat a dead Fordragon Imports, I mean, horse.

Woah woah woah. That is so uncalled for. Fordragon Imports the ONLY guild who could repeatedly down any horde boss they wanted to, defend a city easily and still have time for RP. Think before hatin'

also these ( ' ) are not quotation marks >.> that my friend is an apostrophe. this ( " ) is a quotation mark.

nuff said.

[Irontoe]

The problem with many of these attacks is that they are hardly done in the spirit of RP. Just Got Honor, for example, was once notorious for targetted raids against the Golden Tree, hosted by House Blackstone. What I learned recently is that their actions were against the ToS.

http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=20458&parentCategoryId&pageNumber=1&categoryId=2415

(Read under Verbal/Physical Harassment targetting Role-Players.)

Does this mean I think we all should start running around reporting people? No, because occasional PVP does add some flavor to the game, sometimes you want to introduce the child to wedding guests, and that's fine, but the excuse that all PVP on an RP-PVP server is acceptable does have its limits.

It's quite a stretch to assume that Blizzard equates PvP with spamming emotes, cursing, and actually punching out RPers in real life. As far as I know, the word "physical" does not encompass virtual interactions between video game players (in fact it means quite the opposite), nor does the host of any competitive game charge winners with harassment just because they won. As long as we're (mis)quoting Blizzard, you should have read the first sentence on that page: "In-character actions should yield in-character consequences."

And Bevros, Aiyan corrected me on the quotation mark thing.

[Irontoe]

Anyways, didn't mean for this thread to get derailed, but an obvious jab like- Oh, what's this? You edited your post, sir? No matter. No further derailment necessary.

Look at the timestamps before making yourself look like a jackass. I edited the post at 7:07, seven minutes after I originally posted and over an hour before you did.

[CytianaMoonarrow]

If I show up in RP gear, will you promise not to hurt me? >.>

. . I seem to remember this one time in Ironforge. .

[Aleria Fadeleaf]

It's quite a stretch to assume that Blizzard equates PvP with spamming emotes, cursing, and actually punching out RPers in real life. As far as I know, the word "physical" does not encompass virtual interactions between video game players (in fact it means quite the opposite), nor does the host of any competitive game charge winners with harassment just because they won. As long as we're (mis)quoting Blizzard, you should have read the first sentence on that page: "In-character actions should yield in-character consequences."

And Bevros, Aiyan corrected me on the quotation mark thing.

In this, it is important to understand what Blizzard means by physical. For this, I consult the PVP server policy:

http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=20456

The secion on "ongoing harassment" indicates that Blizzard will not intervene if a "physical" solution is possible, except in cases where the harassment is considered "extreme" or "excessive". Physical in this case does not mean that you get up from your computer, track down the other player, and invade their home. Instead, this policy makes it very clear that physical is meant in the game sense, that you are using your character to incapacitate theirs. Note also that the PVP server policy also says that GMs will not intervene in the event that a PVPer tricks unflagged players into flagging. Situations like these are rampant on PVE servers, which makes this policy relevant there as well. Blizzard will not intervene if a flagged player on a PVE server tricks non-flagged players into flagging.

Therefore, because on a normal RP server, the same excuse could be used, either harassing RP events is considered to be an "extreme" or "excessive" circumstance or, Blizzard threw the word "physical" into the "Verbal/Physical Harassment targeting Role Players" for fun, but didn't really intend for it to mean anything. Given that Blizzard is expected to enforce these policies, however, I tend to doubt that the latter case is true.

[Aiyan]

After reading a post the first time, I hardly expected someone like you to retract an obvious jab ;P If I have to re read everything you write 7 minutes afterwards from now on, then so be it.

[Irontoe]

After reading a post the first time, I hardly expected someone like you to retract an obvious jab ;P If I have to re read everything you write 7 minutes afterwards from now on, then so be it.

Oh, I see. I was mistaken -- I thought you were pointing out that I had edited the post as a jab against me. I don't remember what change I made originally.

[Aiyan]

And Bevros, I'm certainly not criticising Fordragon Imports or their successes. Merely pointing out the idea's already been done, and done well, and as such I see no reason for myself to keep trying it, y'know?

[Aiyan]

*BUMP* Reminder, this event is on today from 7pm server in Stormwind. Come along for some social RP.

[CytianaMoonarrow]

Coming! =D (If I'm not busy!)

[Rand_Shea]

Huh, I'd forgotten about this thread.

Wow, Irontoe, if you really have that much of an issue over things I say, perhaps you should address them to me personally in a PM?

I was simply commenting on the fact that RP events have to be so secretive because other people don't want to take responsibility for how they act as PvPers. Short of talking in code inside invite-only social groups or in the safety of guildchats, there's no way to have an event, have people know about it, and not have it raided.

And then if there's even a slight display of annoyance that an event was raided, you're really quick to jump up and down screaming "Well you shouldn't have announced it in public!" or "Well you should have expected pvp on a pvp server!". And maybe those are true, but there's a limit to what is acceptable even with that. If you're going to demand that people face the fact that there will be pvp on pvp servers, then it should be equally demanded from you that you acknowledge that using pvp as an excuse for shrugging off responsibility for your own actions is arrogant at it's very best.

[Kirana]

Nice Aiyan...I like the way you think! Kill horde, okay....I'll do that in a heartbeat.