Be a <Scourge Slayer>

[Teelia]

With Teelia, I started a new guild. When the Swordwaltzers changed, I didn't feel motivated to get in the new group (I still love you all, but just felt my character needed another direction). I first thought I'd remain guildless, but after countless spam invites getting on my nerves, I started <Scourge Slayer>.

IC, this guild is a small group of people who are only grouped together to fight the scourge. Other than that, they can do as they please. They help each other advance, help other guilds quest or instance....whatever. It is a roleplay guild, and open only to people who post on these forums.

OOC, the guild is mainly for alts who want to play and not be spammed with guild invites. Casual is what this guild is about. We have no meetings, no code of conduct, and no aspirations to be end game raiders.

So if you are intersted, drop me a line in game and you're welcome to join. Taberds are free as well if you want one, but are not required. Hope to see you soon.

*hugs*

[EnheilRas]

Why didn't you just call it <Argent Dawn>?

[Teelia]

Why didn't you just call it <Argent Dawn>?

Because Argent Dawn have the right goals in mind, but are a little too picky and snooty for my tastes. I mean, you gotta kill like a thousand scourge before they even give you biscuits. Screw that. And Argent Dawn won't run alts through Deadmines or Blackfathom. I will.

*grin*

[EnheilRas]

False.

There's Argent Dawn NPC's in Blackfathom.

[Kurohane]

Will that NPC run my alt through the instance, then? I think not.

[EnheilRas]

If he hadn't been skewered by the Naga, I bet he'd help

[Verloran]

I feel I must support this new guild, seeing as how today I became a member.

Yay Scourge Slayer! :D

[Keraph]

Ooh, ooh, can -I- be a Scourge Slayer? I do love to slay Scourge, abd I'm DAMN good at it!


....course, I might not restrict my slaying from fellow members, buuuut, you gotta take a risk with that.

[Teelia]

Keraph, due to faction restrictions, I must say I'm sorry that you can't join. However, I would not be against forming Alliances with any horde group if it were for the greater good of destroying Scourge.

And Enheilras, megolamaniac orcs are not allowed, but should you be encountered while fighting scourge, I will gladly aid you in destroying them. They are the true threat.

Them, and stale cheese.

[EnheilRas]

Pffft.. Scourge..

The Horde cares not about Scourge. It's not even on the list of priorities of the Horde Agenda.

THe Absolution of Kalimdor is first. If Thrall sees fit to send High Overlord Saurfang to Silithus, then it's a sign that the Qiraji are a priority to the Warchief... Not the Scourge.

[Leyujin]

Hehehe... in all honesty, main reason I don't give a hoot about the scourge now is Blizzard's abysmal world event. In character, Leyujin now sees the Scourge as a laughingstock. They could have run that so much better =(.

[EnheilRas]

Besides, it's NER'ZHUL!

What the hell is Ner'zhul going to do against his own people?

[Fhenrir]

In character, Leyujin now sees the Scourge as a laughingstock. They could have run that so much better =(.

Ditto for Fhen. What was with them sending the level 5 undead to stand around right in front of our cities, rather than those spiffy level 60 ones to storm through the gates and cause some chaos?

And Teelia, I have to say the Argent Dawn is one of the few factions in this game I don't see as stuck-up snobs.

[Teelia]

In character, Leyujin now sees the Scourge as a laughingstock. They could have run that so much better =(.

Ditto for Fhen. What was with them sending the level 5 undead to stand around right in front of our cities, rather than those spiffy level 60 ones to storm through the gates and cause some chaos?

And Teelia, I have to say the Argent Dawn is one of the few factions in this game I don't see as stuck-up snobs.

I'll have to agree on all acounts.

The only reason I said they were stuck up is because you have to build faction with them to get their aid in helping to fight the scourge (i.e. the goodies for rep). No big deal, as all factions do that. But in Teelia's mind, warped as it is, she thinks they should be helping earlier, rather than waiting for people to prove their worth. At least thats the excuse I came up with, and am sticking to. hehe.

[Teelia]

Good lord the Scourge invasion could have been so much better.....

[EnheilRas]

yes.. The Argent Dawn should be helping..

I mean, all the work they due in holding the Bulwark with the Forsaken to Quarantine the Scourge Forces to Quel'thelas instead of just letting them spill out into Lordaeron and Northeron to invade the Wetlands is bullshit.

[Teelia]

yes.. The Argent Dawn should be helping..

I mean, all the work they due in holding the Bulwark with the Forsaken to Quarantine the Scourge Forces to Quel'thelas instead of just letting them spill out into Lordaeron and Northeron to invade the Wetlands is bullshit.

*sigh*

I think you're missing my point.

Yes, they do good work. The Argent Dawn rocks. Yadda Yadda. I'm just saying that my little group has the same goals, yet is different than the argent dawn. And yes, I will run a character through the Deadmines, whereas an Argent Dawn NPC will not. Please don't make any more of this than it actually is.

This is an alt guild, pure and simple. I don't pressure anyone to join, don't expect anything out of anyone, and whatever. I'm not saying we're better than the AD. Or worse....Or anything.

Carry on.

[Leyujin]

Just as a lore point for consideration? I think there's another group besides the Scarlet Crusade and Argent Dawn now fighting the Scourge, essentially an aggressive branch-off of the Argent Dawn... forgot the name. You could probably associate yourselves with them somehow.

[Danyxandra]

*proudly pins on her Scourge Slayer badge*

[Teelia]

Just as a lore point for consideration? I think there's another group besides the Scarlet Crusade and Argent Dawn now fighting the Scourge, essentially an aggressive branch-off of the Argent Dawn... forgot the name. You could probably associate yourselves with them somehow.

I assume we are associated with them all. We aren't a large group. We are individuals who wish to openly fight the scourge. That is the RP basis of the guild. Nothing really more. Members of this guild aid other guilds, and other organizations against the scourge.

[EnheilRas]

Just as a lore point for consideration? I think there's another group besides the Scarlet Crusade and Argent Dawn now fighting the Scourge, essentially an aggressive branch-off of the Argent Dawn... forgot the name. You could probably associate yourselves with them somehow.

woulda been recently added..

Didn't whats-his-name start rebuilding the Order of the Silver-Hand or something? Eitrigg's buddy?

[Cyrass]

Good lord the Scourge invasion could have been so much better.....
Serriously. I was exspecting something huge, like the AQ opening of sorts. Undead bursting from the seems of the Plagueland, assulting out in all directions. Occasionally seeing an army of AD or Crusaders trying to hold them off.

[Teelia]

Good lord the Scourge invasion could have been so much better.....
Serriously. I was exspecting something huge, like the AQ opening of sorts. Undead bursting from the seems of the Plagueland, assulting out in all directions. Occasionally seeing an army of AD or Crusaders trying to hold them off.

That would have been so cool.....

[Rajjah]

Was this "scourge invasion" something i missed, i only recently started playing again. Was away for 6 months.

[Daala]

My impression of the Scourge Invasion was that it was a red herring for Kel'thuzad to locate the scattered splinters of Atiesh, which had been disseminated throughout the world.

But yes. It sucked most profusely. I mean, an invasion in Azshara? Who gives a shit about Azshara? Not the Horde. They've got one flight path and it can't even be considered a respectable settlement. No better for the Alliance.

I forsee the Northrend expansion being alot more up to snuff.

[Teelia]

Was this "scourge invasion" something i missed, i only recently started playing again. Was away for 6 months.

No, you missed nothing. Just some level 5 undead outside Stormwind, and a bunch of elites out in random far out of the way locations. The only cool thing I got out of it, other than some good Undead Slaying stuff for Lovely, was an Argent Dawn Taberd.

And the taberd says "I fought the scourge and all I got was this lousy taberd."

hehe.

[EnheilRas]

I was gone as well from the event, though I don't remember the precise circumstances as I remember being around after it..

I think it was the fact that I was working 12-16 hours a day with transit and was still in top 10 for honor standings...

[Keraph]

Yes, I definately agree with Daala. It's obvious that Kel'Thuzad had more important matters to attend to, and he was only distracting us so his business would not be interrupted. I figured he was just using the Scourge attack as a distraction while he set up his stronghold in Naxxrammas, but Daala brings up another strong possibility.

[Alucian]

If the Argent Dawn is not snobbish, they're at least pretty stuck in their superior ways. Sitting around in Light's Hope Chapel to listen to them bitch back and forth with the Scarlet Crusade people is proof enough that they feel they are the only true force against the Scourge. Not saying they haven't been doing a good job.

And the guy that set himself to rebuild the Silver Hand is Tirion Fordring.

And I agree with Daala as well. Quite a nice cover-up, especially considering the constant psychological warfare that occurred in the capital cities...not only with strong monsters rampaging through streets, but the constant taunts that were yelled through the cities.

[Danyxandra]

Kinda weird that a new guild announcement is becoming a *cough* discussion on lore. >.>

[Teelia]

Lore is sexy.

[Daala]

Well, here's how I figured it. Kel'thuzad is extremely loyal to Arthus on a genuine level. This is evidenced in the Frozen Throne when he saves him from death at Sylvanas' hands. Arthas left Kel'thuzad with one standing order: to preserve Arthas' kingdom. To this end, Kel'thuzad has lost Tirisfal to the Scourge. If the Lich's going to seriously try and capture any territory, it's going to be Tirisfal to restore Arthas' holdings to the condition they were in when he was present. But...that's not what happened. At all. There was as much Scourge presence at frigging Thunder Bluff.

Most people of Azeroth remember the initial Scourge warpath. The Night Elves witnessed it when they were tracking Illidan, and the Tauren surely heard about it from the Orcs. For the Orcs, it was a real, "holy crap, just missed it." Imagine missing your flight and learning that it crashes, and you would've surely died. That's a story you'd be telling alot. Alot alot.

So, there's a real psychological edge to a bunch of Scourge suddenly popping up all over the place, seemingly at random. I think the randomness could either be attributed to mind games, or to Atiesh. For the splinters to have gone on undiscovered implies that they have been located in remote areas. Azshara and Silithus are good examples.

We know that Kel'thuzad wants the staff because an Argent Dawn Archmage tells us this. She also tells us of the worldwide splinter dissemination. Now, all these splinters may be found in Naxxramas, along with, I believe, almost all of the components of Atiesh. Kel'thuzad didn't have all these pieces before the invasion, according to the Archmage. I think that either the invasion force wasn't an invasion force at all, ala the Warcraft II expansion, or they were decoys for more clandestine units scouring the countryside.

I think I remember reading in the Burning Crusade Lore preview that more light would be shed on the invasion, though I'm really not sure. Could be imagining it.

A fifth of Stratholme's standing forces would've kicked the crap out any of the major cities, not necessarily destroying them, but really doing some damage.

It's entirely possible that there is no ulterior, and Blizzard just pussed out on the event. But there's enough ambiguity for me to believe the red herring. I think it just works better.

[Teelia]

Daala, you rock....

[Daala]

Daala, you rock....Hehe, thanks!

[EnheilRas]

Only Kel'thuzad isn't loyal to Arthas at all. Kel'thuzad sees Arthas as just another Pawn.

Kel'thuzad is loyal to Ner'zhul.

[Fallacy]

Only Kel'thuzad isn't loyal to Arthas at all. Kel'thuzad sees Arthas as just another Pawn.

Kel'thuzad is loyal to Ner'zhul.

Not that it matters. When Arthas took Frostmourne, he lost his soul, completely losing his will to the Lich King. Arthas was, at that point, Kel'Thuzad's superior, especially since he had to bring him back as a lich after killing him.

[Keraph]

Only Kel'thuzad isn't loyal to Arthas at all. Kel'thuzad sees Arthas as just another Pawn.

Kel'thuzad is loyal to Ner'zhul.

I know I'm not the only one who sees something wrong with this...

[EnheilRas]

It's Ner'zhul's sentient intelligence which *is* the Scourge.

Not Arthas. Whether or not Arthas still has any ability of free will is yet to be certain at all. Ner'zhul could have just removed him mentally from his body completely. Nothing's really certain in the specifics of their symbiosis.

What is Certain is that Ner'zhul is, and always will, be the one voice to follow. As explained, his intelligence seeps through every single scourge minion under his control. It's a level of being that is difficult to comprehend mortally.

[Daala]

Only Kel'thuzad isn't loyal to Arthas at all. Kel'thuzad sees Arthas as just another Pawn.

Kel'thuzad is loyal to Ner'zhul.Until you provide ANY cited support, I'm considering this purely speculative. There is cause given in Frozen Throne to assume that Kel'thuzad is loyal to Arthas without any suggestion given that it's a deception.

[Keraph]

There are also of course pointers to the idea that at this point in time, Ner'zhul and Arthas are one and the same, and might be considered as such.

And I disagree with the idea that anything that can be written cannot be comprehended. If it was completely incomprehensible, there is no possible way one would be able to put it in words. A complete tangent, yes, but it's part of a discussion I once had, and you reminded me of it.

[Daala]

I was under the impression that Ner'zhul didn't have a use for Arthas when he started grabbing Lordaeron holdings, at least, no use better than what Arthas was doing on his own accord. When he became aware of his threatened state (I wonder whether the Illidan's strike force was the initial concern, or if the structural flaw from the excisement of Froustmourne was what inspired him to summon Arthas in the first place.), Arthas was immediately tapped.

While it's true that Ner'zhul is capable of asserting his control over the sentient, free-willed lieutenants of the Scourge, that doesn't mean he did it perpetually. Understand what I mean by free-willed. A lich or Death Knight is a slave to the Lich King. But if they're always going to be manipulated, as the lesser ghouls, etc., then what's the point of preserving their sentience? They have to possess autonomy either to an extent or situationally. My personal interpretation is that Ner'zhul's direct control over his sentients is conditional, when the situation calls for it, and hardly the naturally assumed situation.

[Shadowspeak]

I remember one thing Kel'thizad said once. Something along the lines of "ner'zhul chose you, Arthas. he chose you even before you were born."

[Daala]

I remember one thing Kel'thizad said once. Something along the lines of "ner'zhul chose you, Arthas. he chose you even before you were born."I believe I remember the same. Now, my timeline's a bit fuzzy, but I'm under the impression that Ner'zhul was reformed as the Lich King after Arthas was born. Honestly? I just think that Kel'thuzad was trying to wow a naive and impressionable young man.

[Teelia]

I remember one thing Kel'thizad said once. Something along the lines of "ner'zhul chose you, Arthas. he chose you even before you were born."

I think Cliff said that same line to Theo on a Cosby Show episode once. When they brought Arthas in, the show really jumped the shark.

[Daala]

Hehe, is that a reference to the South Park Fonzy?

[Tarlithion]

No, it's a reference to the real Fonzie, in that the decline of Happy Days began after the Fonz jumped over a shark on waterskis. But that has nothing to do with lore.

[EnheilRas]

I remember one thing Kel'thizad said once. Something along the lines of "ner'zhul chose you, Arthas. he chose you even before you were born."

Quite odd as Arthas was born at the same year that Thrall was, meaning he was alive during the second war.

Ner'zhul's "Death" didn't arrive until 13 years or so?

[Shadowspeak]

I remember one thing Kel'thizad said once. Something along the lines of "ner'zhul chose you, Arthas. he chose you even before you were born."

Quite odd as Arthas was born at the same year that Thrall was, meaning he was alive during the second war.

Ner'zhul's "Death" didn't arrive until 13 years or so?

...

I'm not a lore master manus, I just remember Kel'Thuzad saying something like that in one of the cutscenes in the game.

Don't expect everyone to know everything about the game.

[Fallacy]

Ner'zhul had been planning to use Arthas for quite a bit of time. How long, I'm not sure, but not long after he destroyed Azjol'Nerub.

[EnheilRas]

I'm sure Ner'zhul was more in love with poetic irony rather than anything else.

[Alucian]

As far as the relationship between Kel'Thuzad and Arthas:

Arthas, called by the Lich King, was forced to leave the Scourge in the hands of his lieutenant, Kel'Thuzad, as the war escalated throughout the Plaguelands. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/chapter5.html#39

Currently Arthas, the new and immortal Lich King, resides in Northrend; he is rumored to be rebuilding the citadel of Icecrown. His trusted lieutenant, Kel'Thuzad, commands the Scourge in the Plaguelands. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/chapter5.html#40

As far as the relationship between Ner'zhul and Arthas:

Arthas' fear and resolve proved to be his ultimate undoing. He tracked the plague's source to Northrend, intending to end its threat forever. Instead, Prince Arthas eventually fell prey to the Lich King's tremendous power. Believing that it would save his people, Arthas took up the cursed runeblade, Frostmourne. Though the sword did grant him unfathomable power, it also stole his soul and transformed him into the greatest of the Lich King's death knights. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/chapter5.html#33

Of course. He (the Lich King) chose you to be his champion long before the Scourge even began. --Kel'Thuzad to Arthas, Warcraft 3: RoC, Undead campaign, Chapter 6

In summary, Kel'Thuzad is lower on the totem pole than Arthas, was even before he became one with the Lich King, and Kel'Thuzad knew his lot in life even before he became a lich, so he is loyal to Arthas and thusly loyal to Ner'zhul. Ner'zhul is not loyal to Arthas in the way that would make Arthas Ner'zhul's superior, but he is loyal in the way that a ruler is to his champion. So, when the Lich King began to lose his power, he summoned his champion to his side, though it's completely feasible that if he took a "living" champion, the end result of their symbiosis was always the Lich King's intent.

Now, can we get back to the original topic of this post? ;)

[Shadowspeak]

Of course. He (the Lich King) chose you to be his champion long before the Scourge even began. --Kel'Thuzad to Arthas, Warcraft 3: RoC, Undead campaign, Chapter 6

THATS what I was talking about.. thank you.