No More Instance Wars and More

[Broxigan]

From the most recent Blue bash:


Instance Teleporting
When you use the dungeon tool to find a dungeon, you’ll get ported to the inside of the dungeon, much like the current Battleground system. When you leave the instance, you will be returned to your previous location. If you need to leave temporarily, such as for repairs or to purchase reagents, you can teleport back to the dungeon again. This feature can be used both by groups looking for other players and by premade groups of five who use the dungeon tool.

So, opinions? No more having to battle over a summoning stone anymore. And they made summoning stones practically useless...again...

Still, it is helpful if you want to get an instance done and you don't have to wait at the entrance and get jumped and turn a 5 minute summoning ordeal into a 30 minute PVP fest.

But I will miss the PVP fest. :<

Also:


Vote Kick
Players who use the system to find additional random members for their party will be afforded a couple of extra conveniences to help them perform well. The loot option is fixed to the updated Need Before Greed option (and unalterable by any member) and players can vote to remove another party member from the group. It will take four votes in order to remove someone, however, so consider this newfound power carefully.

I see this to also be a good or bad thing. So much drama will flood around this.


Lovin’ the PUG
Players who take part in groups with one or more members who have been matched with them randomly from within the dungeon system will receive extra rewards, including the coveted Perky Pug non-combat pet. The more random players you group with, the faster you could get your new pet!



Daily Random Dungeons
Players or groups can choose specific dungeons or they can instead take their chances with a random Heroic or random normal dungeon. Picking randomly conveys some additional benefits. If you defeat the final boss in a dungeon, you receive 2 Emblems of Frost for Heroic dungeons and 2 Emblems of Triumph for normal dungeons. In addition, after players have received 2 Emblems of Frost for the first Heroic dungeon they do in a day, they will earn 2 Emblems of Triumph for each additional random Heroic dungeons in that day. These random rewards replace the current daily dungeon and daily Heroic dungeon quests. The current NPCs who offer those quests will offer weekly repeatable raid quests instead. You can also earn level-appropriate rewards for running random pre-Wrath of the Lich King dungeons while you are leveling up.

This will be fun until it lands on Occulus.


Join as a Group or Solo
Much like the current Looking For Group system, players will be able to join the dungeon system and choose the role they would like to fill within groups: Healing, DPS, or Tank. In addition, once roles have been identified, they will be applied to all dungeons chosen. Players will now be able to choose multiple dungeons and will no longer be limited to three. The system has also improved group creation and matchmaking capabilities and will create more balanced groups when assessing the selected roles of players.

The LFG channel has been disconnected from the dungeon tool and can be used by anyone in a major city, much like the trade channel currently available.

Iiiiiinteresting.

Edit: Sorry Gor! I double threaded by accident!

[Gorvena]

Tenj is crying bitter tears of sad.

=P

[Lysimachus]

As far as Oculus goes: SUCK IT UP BISHES.

And the PvP around the stones... ...not really too broken up about it. I mean, I'm always in my PvE spec and gear by the time I get to the instance and it's usually just a disaster for me. CastersWhoUseSpirit in PvE gear = lulz.

[Villayna]

The reason occulus is such a pain is the fact that no one ever runs it because no one knows how to run it and it becomes a newb fest that takes longer than it should. If people actually learn how to do it, it won't be as horrible. *nods in unrealistic happiness*

[Broxigan]

I personally don't mind Occulus, but as stated, majority of the people have NO idea how to do that instance correctly. Which is what makes it painful.

[Grayslin]

We did the 20 minute achievement for oculus the other day...

When I say "we" - I mean I tanked it up until the last boss where I promptly died instantly and watched everyone else get the achievement for me.

[Grev]

I'm kind of scratching my head at the decision to actually reward players who choose to PUG more than players who actually play with their friends.

You're basically telling me that because I don't want to run a heroic with a bunch of yahoos whose competence I have absolutely no assessment of until I'm knee-deep in the dungeon I will be compensated less simply because I chose to run with my buds?

I guess that makes sense.

[Lysimachus]

Your reward is the pure, undiluted joy of playing with your friends. =]

[Boudika]

The reason occulus is such a pain is the fact that no one ever runs it because no one knows how to run it and it becomes a newb fest that takes longer than it should. If people actually learn how to do it, it won't be as horrible. *nods in unrealistic happiness*

....this.

[Grayslin]

I'm kind of scratching my head at the decision to actually reward players who choose to PUG more than players who actually play with their friends.

You're basically telling me that because I don't want to run a heroic with a bunch of yahoos whose competence I have absolutely no assessment of until I'm knee-deep in the dungeon I will be compensated less simply because I chose to run with my buds?

I guess that makes sense.
Read it again. I thought the same thing the first time I read it, but you'll note that there is an option to queue as a full group also for the emblem rewards.

The pet is the only reward for pugging it.

[Broxigan]

I'm kind of scratching my head at the decision to actually reward players who choose to PUG more than players who actually play with their friends.

You're basically telling me that because I don't want to run a heroic with a bunch of yahoos whose competence I have absolutely no assessment of until I'm knee-deep in the dungeon I will be compensated less simply because I chose to run with my buds?

I guess that makes sense.

I know, it's like rewarding raiders with 310% flying mounts...

...wait.

[Akuje]

Tenj is crying bitter tears of sad.

=P

Why? He is still going to have people to pick off all around the world. And while he's a small bit upset about the change to knock-backs, he's got videos proving he's able to kill people without dismounting them.

[Yichimet]

Why the fuck do we even have mounts or flying mounts anymore? I just got my 310 mount a few weeks ago and suddenly I'm going to have no reason to use it.

[Grev]

Read it again. I thought the same thing the first time I read it, but you'll note that there is an option to queue as a full group also for the emblem rewards.
You still receive more gold with a randomized group than pre-made.

[Grayslin]

Do you? I guess *I* need to read it again.

[Skaadvik]

This is going to cut down some awesome world PvP... but oh well. I like most of the changes.

[Swerto]

Occulas hard? I did it my first time and got my bronze void.

[Gorvena]

Why? He is still going to have people to pick off all around the world. And while he's a small bit upset about the change to knock-backs, he's got videos proving he's able to kill people without dismounting them.
Wups; forgot the SARCASM ALERT tag again... :rollseyes:

[Yatokth]

Fucking lame.

World being a lobby instead of world = bad.

[Yichimet]

That's pretty much my thought too, Yat.

[Lysimachus]

I think it's necessary. It's impossible to find a group for instances, all too often.

I'd rather actually be able to level up and play instances (and in some cases instance at level 80 without it taking half an hour to find a group) than engage in the occasional slugfest at those silly stones (which can be fun, I'll admit. SOMETIMES).

And with the cross-server dynamic being enabled, this really is the only sensible way to implement it (short of requiring everyone to travel to the instance on their respective home servers. Can you imagine how long that would take, with how lazy some hellers can be? -_- )

[Yatokth]

It's not the Stone PvP, that's usually pretty terrible compared to Daily Zone PvP even, it's just the mentality that now you can go to BGs AND Instances without having to fly ANYWHERE, you can just sit your ass in Dal and do everything you need to do without traveling around the world they took so much time to create and detail.

Why?

It's cheap. I like the travel time, it makes the game seem more real.

[Lysimachus]

mmmmMMMMmmmmMmMMMMmm I guess that's just a matter of opinion, then. Having seen it all four times (well, 3.5, my hunter's only 72), I'm quite contended with seeing it in the world PvP I participate in with the Cross ^_^

[Swerto]

WTB BG entrances being BG entrances again please.



Want to do AV? Fly to Hillsbrad and ride to Aleterac.

Want to do WSG? Fly to Ashenvale and ride to the entrances.

Want to do AB? Fly to Arathi.

Want to do EoTS? You don't? Of course not, no one does.

Want to do SotA? Put a boat on the shore of Borean Tundra that will take you there (instance style)

Want to do Isle of Conquest? Same thing, just put the boat on the coast of Northrend.

[Boudika]

great...more people lollyfreakinggagging in Dal...just what my pos computer needs.

[Yatokth]

Want to do AV? Fly to Hillsbrad and ride to Aleterac.

Want to do WSG? Fly to Ashenvale and ride to the entrances.

Want to do AB? Fly to Arathi.

Want to do EoTS? You don't? Of course not, no one does.

Want to do SotA? Put a boat on the shore of Borean Tundra that will take you there (instance style)

Want to do Isle of Conquest? Same thing, just put the boat on the coast of Northrend.

Isle is actually just off the Stormwright's Shelf in Sholazar - make it flyable! I wanna get a queue thing like WG when I fly over it.

[Swerto]

The description said it was north of Icecrown, guess I read wrong.

[Okhu]

great...more people lollyfreakinggagging in Dal...just what my pos computer needs.

I'm right here with you there Boudika :C

[Boudika]

I'm right here with you there Boudika :C

STOP STALKING ME!!!!!


;)

[Abric]

I'll try not to sound like some old asshole who thinks just because he spent all that time doing it, others should (they should!).

But, did I read this right in saying that if I'm leveling and want to go do, say, Maraudon... then I can just get teleported there? I don't have to ride all the way there myself? When I am done with the instance, am I able to just walk out and then take the short ride to get the flight path to Desolace for my trouble of hanging around Undercity?

Thrall says: HORDE! Today we fight our enemies for the glory and honor of our ancestors! Now, just sit in the chair there... yeah, that's right. Now jack in - we won't be oppressed by MACHINES!

[Irontoe]

Isle is actually just off the Stormwright's Shelf in Sholazar - make it flyable! I wanna get a queue thing like WG when I fly over it.

No, it isn't. When you're next in the battleground, look off the coast in the top right hand corner of the map. There's Scarlet Harbor. Also, as Swerto said, the description of the battleground says it is north of Icecrown.

[Grayslin]

But, did I read this right in saying that if I'm leveling and want to go do, say, Maraudon... then I can just get teleported there? I don't have to ride all the way there myself? When I am done with the instance, am I able to just walk out and then take the short ride to get the flight path to Desolace for my trouble of hanging around Undercity?
Pretty much, except I think it said that leaving the instance sends you back to where you entered it from, not its location, kinda like the remote BG queuing does now. (Which is also lame - convenient, but lame.)

[Faeriel]

I'm always amazed by how people complain when Blizzard makes underused parts of the game more accessible. Oh no, we won't have to run to instances! It's more efficient, allows more people to participate in content they want to do, and just makes the hassle of getting instance groups together a lot easier. It's almost like Blizzard wants people to actually play the game instead of sitting/flying around waiting to play the game.

[Rand_Shea]

You know... Teleporting to the towns nearest to instances would work just as well. Maybe make it cost something so that people have the option of convenience for a cost, or saving money and getting there manually.

[Alphaeus]

As someone who's spent way too much time on this game, my reply to such changes?

FUCK YES.

[Lysimachus]

You know... Teleporting to the towns nearest to instances would work just as well. Maybe make it cost something so that people have the option of convenience for a cost, or saving money and getting there manually.

My only problem with that is that I know how effing long some people take to get to instances.

"Oh ummm. just one more quest. one more quest, just finishing this quest. um, just fi-... "

"...hello?"

*no response*

*still none*

"gaddamnit." *kick, rejoin queue after fifteen minutes of waiting*

NOT MY IDEA OF FUN O_O

[Sejarki]

My only problem with that is that I know how effing long some people take to get to instances.

"Oh ummm. just one more quest. one more quest, just finishing this quest. um, just fi-... "

"...hello?"

*no response*

*still none*

"gaddamnit." *kick, rejoin queue after fifteen minutes of waiting*

NOT MY IDEA OF FUN O_O

Oh this. And being Alliance side on the server means there's a greater chance I'll run into Horde at the stone and be unable to summon (especially for the daily). I've gotten into the habit of quickly figuring out who's going to refuse to fly out to the instance and kicking them early.

These changes will at least resolve my little personal version of hell.

This isn't to say I like the world to be shrunk down in these ways, in fact I'm generally an opponent of it. But WoW's already heavy on making things relatively quick and painless (for an MMO), and it's a slippery slope. That and the WoW community is pretty much 75% selfish jerks (I'm an optomist!) I'd like to avoid for the most part. Though that's a cyclical thing, the community is full of jerks because WoW makes it easy for them to succeed, and WoW then has to make it easier to succeed because it's full of jerks.

[Viirchi]

I'm kind of glad I won't have to run through a horde checkpoint every time I want to do Scarlet Monastery. Yes, World PvP great but when I have to resurrect four or five times just to get to the instance on a holiday it gets a little tedious.

The changes annoyed me at first because yes, it does seem like they're going a little crazy with the instant queue and it made me wonder if the developers had maybe hit their heads way too many times on the keyboard. In a way though, this makes sense. It is really just cutting down on travel time and summoning as it's been stated by everyone above. Also, it appears as if they created it so you do not have to hang around in Dalaran or be in Northrend to get to these instances so it might be less strain on graphics when you can just stand around in whatever city you choose(provided the guards don't object) or even out in the middle of nowhere and still be able to raid immediatly without running through the population lagfest.

[Alphaeus]

Leveling up, depending on where you are, group composition, stone access etc, running instances can actually prove detrimental to the time it takes to level up, and in many cases should be avoided as questing or even outright grinding would be faster.

This gets rid of a lot of the unessential crap involved with getting groups. Aside from horrific wipes because the tank's retarded and the healer's AFK, getting the group into the instance in the first place is one of the most painful parts of pugging.

[Vaaldis]

SO EXCITED FOR THIS.

[Swerto]

Oh this. And being Alliance side on the server means there's a greater chance I'll run into Horde at the stone and be unable to summon (especially for the daily). I've gotten into the habit of quickly figuring out who's going to refuse to fly out to the instance and kicking them early.

These changes will at least resolve my little personal version of hell.

This isn't to say I like the world to be shrunk down in these ways, in fact I'm generally an opponent of it. But WoW's already heavy on making things relatively quick and painless (for an MMO), and it's a slippery slope. That and the WoW community is pretty much 75% selfish jerks (I'm an optomist!) I'd like to avoid for the most part. Though that's a cyclical thing, the community is full of jerks because WoW makes it easy for them to succeed, and WoW then has to make it easier to succeed because it's full of jerks.

Having 80's on both sides and doing heroics regularly, I'm going to tell you it's just as common to run into alliance as it is to run into horde.

ESPECIALLY at the ulduar stone, considering most of the raid guilds are alliance side at this point.

[Sejarki]

Having 80's on both sides and doing heroics regularly, I'm going to tell you it's just as common to run into alliance as it is to run into horde.

ESPECIALLY at the ulduar stone, considering most of the raid guilds are alliance side at this point.

Well in this case I was more specifically talking about the stone for whatever the Heroic daily tends to be, maybe it's just a false perception on my part, but I figured it was just the result of population balance leaning Horde. For raids you should have a Warlock.

[Irontoe]

Yes, World PvP great but when I have to resurrect four or five times just to get to the instance on a holiday it gets a little tedious.

Heehee... I remember you.

[Boudika]

folks..its not really THAT hard to get in an instance with a few stone campers. Just be ready to die...strategize your death so you are close enough to the entrance and when the next group of poor sobs come and distract them...run in. Or...you can just have fun with it? crazy talk...i know.

[Grayslin]

I'm kind of glad I won't have to run through a horde checkpoint every time I want to do Scarlet Monastery.
Knowing blizzard, they will just assume if you're over leveled for an instance, you have no reason to do it, and won't give you the ability to queue for it.

Just like with the meeting stone and LFG tool.

[Faeriel]

Honestly, I don't think the majority of players care about trying to PuG instances that they're significantly over-leveled for.

[Grayslin]

My point didn't have anything to do with pugging - it had to do with instant teleportation to instances such as in the comment I quoted.

That said, people want to find folks to do content they're overleveled for plenty. Case in point, the headless horseman. You can't select SM or HH from the LFG tool or use the summoning stone there, because SM is a level 30-ish instance.

[Faeriel]

Eh, that's a seasonal boss in an underleveled instance. Most of the time, people aren't going to be looking for stuff like that or needing to do it. Besides, It's not like those people looking for Horseman groups are actually looking for SM Graveyard runs.

[Lisbet]

folks..its not really THAT hard to get in an instance with a few stone campers. Just be ready to die...strategize your death so you are close enough to the entrance and when the next group of poor sobs come and distract them...run in. Or...you can just have fun with it? crazy talk...i know.

You don't play a priest with <First Legion> Over her head, Either. Unless there's a warlock already there, it takes me 45 minutes to go from the stone - after running there - to the instance portal of Scarlet Monastery during Halloween.

4ourty 5ive minutes. I kid you not.


Bring on the BG Queue style instances! Maybe it'll help us recruit from other servers!

[Akuje]

Yea, people saying it isn't that hard, try wearing First Legion around a bit, makes us a HUGE target.

Hell last night we visited Org bright and early (just 2 of us) and would stealth around and disrupt. Quickly /yell opened up that we were around and some patrols of 3 went looking.

But I welcome the challenge, as I remember one point 10 of us taking out what looked like a 25 man raid and a 10 man raid.

But yea, I pug a lot, and I can't wait for this to go live.

[Yatokth]

I'm kind of glad I won't have to run through a horde checkpoint every time I want to do Scarlet Monastery. Yes, World PvP great but when I have to resurrect four or five times just to get to the instance on a holiday it gets a little tedious.


You don't play a priest with <First Legion> Over her head, Either. Unless there's a warlock already there, it takes me 45 minutes to go from the stone - after running there - to the instance portal of Scarlet Monastery during Halloween.

4ourty 5ive minutes. I kid you not.

You signed up for it, buckos. Suck it up.

Or just bring 24 friends.

[Swerto]

PEE
VEE
PEE
SERVER



You want the RP and raiding without the PEEVEEPEE? Roll on a roleplay normal ruleset server.

[Necroxis]

PEE
VEE
PEE
SERVER



You want the RP and raiding without the PEEVEEPEE? Roll on a roleplay normal ruleset server.

This.

I really can't believe that it would take you 45 minutes to get to the SM portal. Even corpse running there (Assuming your first death was IN Southshore and you were killed the entire way there) wouldn't take that long.

[Jeedup]

Here comes the pointless smack talk.

[Lysimachus]

Le sigh @ the constant OMFG DIS IS P+VPEPEPPVPPP SERVER YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO EVER SAY ANYTHING EVAAAR

Though, @ Lisbet... I always keep a full supply of invisibility, swiftness, free action, water walk, and swim speed potions in my inventory.

Useful potions are useful *sagenod*

[Yatokth]

Le sigh @ the constant OMFG DIS IS P+VPEPEPPVPPP SERVER YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO EVER SAY ANYTHING EVAAAR

If you're bitching about PvP on a PvP server that does not explicitly cross the line between PvP and GRIEFING (camping someone with a party wherever they went so they couldn't do anything would indeed constitute griefing, and with screenshots is reportable) then you are DOING IT WRONG. The server type is there for a reason, and it's there when you like it and when you don't like it, and that's why I like it.

So deal with it, or reroll where you don't have to. Your choice.


Though, @ Lisbet... I always keep a full supply of invisibility, swiftness, free action, water walk, and swim speed potions in my inventory.

Useful potions are useful *sagenod*

Smart man! Been thinking about getting some water walk potions myself for solo PvP.

[Lysimachus]

They are so wonderfully useful! Especially since you can use them in battlegrounds. IoC and AB have lots of awesome situations for them ^_^

And, yanno, always a necessity in World PvP imo.

[Abric]

It's merely a counter to "it's hard to be me" style of thought, Lysimachus.

I wouldn't take anything negative or even insulting from folks saying stuff about the difference between "easier" and "do it the old way!" style of thought with this.

All in all, it *will* make the game a lot easier to play... or more "streamlined" if you want a different word than 'easy'.

It is just unfortunate some of the elements of being ON a PvP server and interacting with people other than your own faction is going to be taken away. This will just be another stone in the bucket that separates us as factions, so the only time we see each other is in Dalaran, or the 1/100 shot of being in a battleground together.

... or questing in the same daily zone for the latest and greatest reputation to gain. Woooo, exciting... predetermined positions which if you do anything to the other you get branded as an asshat, just because the other guy is "trying to do some questing done" or "doesn't have time to fight you".

[Lysimachus]

I'm not gonna worry about it.

Tol Barad is going to be teh roxxorz. I remember fighting on that island in Warcraft 2 xD

[Yatokth]

... or questing in the same daily zone for the latest and greatest reputation to gain. Woooo, exciting... predetermined positions which if you do anything to the other you get branded as an asshat, just because the other guy is "trying to do some questing done" or "doesn't have time to fight you".

PvP server.

They pretty much have no counter to that. Or they could just man up and kill you.

That's pretty rare though.

[Lysimachus]

Let's kick every non RPer off the server while we're at it! ALL OF THEM!

Lots of people play on the server cuz they play with their friends or spouses or what not, who DO like the RP ANDOR pvp.

[Yatokth]

Let's kick every non RPer off the server while we're at it! ALL OF THEM!

Lots of people play on the server cuz they play with their friends or spouses or what not, who DO like the RP ANDOR pvp.

Nothing would make me happier.

[Lysimachus]

http://robdamanii.com/macros/curses.jpg

[Swerto]

I don't midn if you don't RP so much, as long as you're willing to respect the roleplayers.

I -DO- mind when people bitch about PvP on a PVP SERVER.

If you don't like it, ROLL ELSEWHERE.

I say the same thing to people who bitch about roleplayers, this server is flagged as both, you don't HAVE to do either (you can fly around like a wuss on you flying mount and avoid PvP all together, QQ blizzard, give us air combat so those wusses get raped), and you can just sit around and not roleplay. I don't like that blizzard is taking away the aspect of the PvP on the PvP server though, I realy do like the spontaneous fights that start up because people are fighting over stuff for dailies, or fighting for control of a summoning stone.

And the best part about it? You can always bring more friends and FIGHT BACK. It's not like that griefer when you're roleplaying who won't shut up, and you have to add him to ignore but he's STILL THERE... You can actually fight back in PvP.

[Akuje]

Im not really sure where someone started bitching. I know Lisbet said she has a target over her head, and it can be frustrating, but I dont think she QQed anywhere...

There are too many helmet kids who feel the need the moment someone who is an avid pve'er makes a comment about Sausage fighting, to scream "Sausage fighting SEVER!!".

[Yatokth]

Im not really sure where someone started bitching. I know Lisbet said she has a target over her head, and it can be frustrating, but I dont think she QQed anywhere...

There are too many helmet kids who feel the need the moment someone who is an avid pve'er makes a comment about Sausage fighting, to scream "Sausage fighting SEVER!!".


You don't play a priest with <First Legion> Over her head, Either. Unless there's a warlock already there, it takes me 45 minutes to go from the stone - after running there - to the instance portal of Scarlet Monastery during Halloween.

4ourty 5ive minutes. I kid you not.


I'm kind of glad I won't have to run through a horde checkpoint every time I want to do Scarlet Monastery. Yes, World PvP great but when I have to resurrect four or five times just to get to the instance on a holiday it gets a little tedious.

Bitching, complaining, or discussing, or whatever you want to call it, the message was the same "I like this change cause it means I don't have to run into this PvP in Scarlet Monastery."

They signed up for it. It's their own fault.

I have nothing against PvE'ers, I have something against people who knowingly sign the contract and then complain when exactly what they signed up for happens. Don't get me wrong, I've been a bit peeved by some PvP that's happened at inconvenient times, but in the long run, I love the environment, because you're never safe. You are FORCED (or should be) to get better at PvP, or bring more people (the usual recourse) to do whatever you were doing.

"I was just questing, why are you such a dick?"

"PvP server, your name is red, I killed you. Suck it up."

Complaining about something you willingly walked into is illogical, and contrary to what the environment of a PvP server used to be, should be, and is unfortunately increasingly moving away from.

[Swerto]

WTB PVP ON PVP SERVER


I'm serious, Aerial combat would fix ALL of our problems with flying mounts.

[Okhu]

We had a discussion about this already Swerto.


<That way.

Stop being dumb.

[Chikt]

Matters like like this, there's an old English proverb that I like to refer to.

<<< PVE Server That Way <<<

Sorry about the tough love, guys, but it's really that simple. You roll on a PvP server and should expect PvP in the world and expect it's NOT going to be fair. If you really don't like the way the system works, server transfers are available.

HOWEVER. I don't honestly see this effecting world PvP all that much. The only time I do world PvP around summoning stones is when it's for a world event (Brewfest, Hallows Eve). Otherwise, most of the world PvP comes from city/town offense/defense.

[Akuje]

Bitching, complaining, or discussing, or whatever you want to call it, the message was the same "I like this change cause it means I don't have to run into this PvP in Scarlet Monastery."



How? A level 80 can not que for a lvl 30 dungeon, meaning they get to run the gauntlet.

[Necroxis]

Bitching, complaining, or discussing, or whatever you want to call it, the message was the same "I like this change cause it means I don't have to run into this PvP in Scarlet Monastery."

They signed up for it. It's their own fault.

I have nothing against PvE'ers, I have something against people who knowingly sign the contract and then complain when exactly what they signed up for happens. Don't get me wrong, I've been a bit peeved by some PvP that's happened at inconvenient times, but in the long run, I love the environment, because you're never safe. You are FORCED (or should be) to get better at PvP, or bring more people (the usual recourse) to do whatever you were doing.

"I was just questing, why are you such a dick?"

"PvP server, your name is red, I killed you. Suck it up."

Complaining about something you willingly walked into is illogical, and contrary to what the environment of a PvP server used to be, should be, and is unfortunately increasingly moving away from.

Oh Christ, we're agreeing again, Yat. I think the Armageddon might be December 2009 instead of 2012...especially if this keeps up.

---------------------

I find it ironic because if you put all the people who are QQing about this into the other corner, you won't hear the complaints. I know I am guilty of yelling out when I get ganked or killed or attacked or something or other when I'm not expecting it.

It sucks, you died, get over it. Bring friends and fight back, or corpse jump/run to get away.

Don't turn that into "Oh well I should be able to never have to face PvP on a PvP server because 'Lawlstabu' killed me one day when I was summoning people for Heroic DTK."

That being said, I think people on both sides of the fence are freaking out about this too much. I SERIOUSLY doubt Blizzard's intention for this was "Oh let's ruin fights on the summoning stone" or whatnot.

It must just be me, but I've never had massive wars over a summoning stone. The only semi-large event that I've experienced was the first night of Hallow's Eve this year when the Horde camped out near SM GY's portal and fought.

...2 corpse jumps later, I was in the instance. Took 10 mins, tops.

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1lfSzgcAw)

EDIT: This entire argument reminds me (For some strange reason) when WotLK was being shipped and the Zombie event occurred. It's like people are going "Everything should be given to me without work or without me doing something I don't want to. Cater the game to me or I'll complain endlessly!"

/agree with Dio's last sentence.

These "epic" instance summoning stone battles sounds, to me, as if they only happened when both sides decided they wanted it to. I know for me, if I'm killed on either char outside of an instance at the stone, I either rez and kill them, proceed with my party-summons, and then join the instance; or I wait for them to get into the instance. If they decide they wanted to "defend" the stone and repeatedly kill us, well then it sucks for the rest of my party members, because they have to run. That's pretty much it.

[Yatokth]

Oh Christ, we're agreeing again, Yat. I think the Armageddon might be December 2009 instead of 2012...especially if this keeps up.

---------------------

I find it ironic because if you put all the people who are QQing about this into the other corner, you won't hear the complaints. I know I am guilty of yelling out when I get ganked or killed or attacked or something or other when I'm not expecting it.

It sucks, you died, get over it. Bring friends and fight back, or corpse jump/run to get away.

Don't turn that into "Oh well I should be able to never have to face PvP on a PvP server because 'Lawlstabu' killed me one day when I was summoning people for Heroic DTK."

That being said, I think people on both sides of the fence are freaking out about this too much. I SERIOUSLY doubt Blizzard's intention for this was "Oh let's ruin fights on the summoning stone" or whatnot.

It must just be me, but I've never had massive wars over a summoning stone. The only semi-large event that I've experienced was the first night of Hallow's Eve this year when the Horde camped out near SM GY's portal and fought.

...2 corpse jumps later, I was in the instance. Took 10 mins, tops.

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1lfSzgcAw)

EDIT: This entire argument reminds me (For some strange reason) when WotLK was being shipped and the Zombie event occurred. It's like people are going "Everything should be given to me without work or without me doing something I don't want to. Cater the game to me or I'll complain endlessly!"

/agree with Dio's last sentence.

These "epic" instance summoning stone battles sounds, to me, as if they only happened when both sides decided they wanted it to. I know for me, if I'm killed on either char outside of an instance at the stone, I either rez and kill them, proceed with my party-summons, and then join the instance; or I wait for them to get into the instance. If they decide they wanted to "defend" the stone and repeatedly kill us, well then it sucks for the rest of my party members, because they have to run. That's pretty much it.

Nor have I had good fights at Summoning Stones.

Summoning Stone PvP sucks.

Holiday PvP? Usually pretty good. What I have a problem with is the mentality that people can just separate everything into little compartments in their lobby.

No.

PvP server should affect the whole world, and when you put your neck out there to go get something done, you are PUTTING YOUR NECK OUT THERE. That's what a PvP server should be, the danger, the constant warfare.

Unfortunately, the -mentality- of this is slowly being washed away, which is what I have a problem with, not the occasional throwdown at the Ulduar summoning stone. That's miniscule.

So basically, it's the principle I have a problem with. Quite simply, if you're gonna complain about the PvP, well, you're gonna get me telling you that you signed up for it. Because you did.

And Akuje, I actually hadn't thought of that (silly me) but it doesn't change the tone of their posts, and the reason why I responded as I did.

[Jeedup]

I'll bitch about pvp if I want to, and will.

And I find it funny that another fix that Blizzard is implimenting is again, THE DEATH OF PvP AS WE KNOW IT! *dramatic music*

Wait...

Weren't flying mounts supposed to ruin pvp?

Resilience fixes, wasn't that prophesied to be the end of PvP?

Even arenas way back when were said to be HORRIBLE AND DISGUSTING for PvP!!! *gasp*

I just find all this very funny.

[Swerto]

Resilience is the best thing to ever happen to PvP.

Force people to PvP to get PvP armor so they can PvP better? Yes please.

[Necroxis]

I'll bitch about pvp if I want to, and will.

And I find it funny that another fix that Blizzard is implimenting is again, THE DEATH OF PvP AS WE KNOW IT! *dramatic music*

Wait...

Weren't flying mounts supposed to ruin pvp?

Resilience fixes, wasn't that prophesied to be the end of PvP?

Even arenas way back when were said to be HORRIBLE AND DISGUSTING for PvP!!! *gasp*

I just find all this very funny.

Haven't you heard? Flying mounts in Azeroth is now going to ruin PvP, for srs this time.

[Qabian]

I'll bitch about pvp if I want to, and will.

And I find it funny that another fix that Blizzard is implimenting is again, THE DEATH OF PvP AS WE KNOW IT! *dramatic music*

Wait...

Weren't flying mounts supposed to ruin pvp?

Resilience fixes, wasn't that prophesied to be the end of PvP?

Even arenas way back when were said to be HORRIBLE AND DISGUSTING for PvP!!! *gasp*

I just find all this very funny.

I don't know. I think all those things were detrimental to the spirit of PvP, but I liked Classic. And I signed up for being terrorized. Heck, I miss the needing to run to instances and getting killed on the way. Now people can just summon up to pretty little rocks and run away from the huge fights that erupt? How am I gonna ambush people running into Blackrock now?

Of course, I don't miss needing to wait on lazy pugs who didn't bother to run out there. And I will be very, very happy for the ability to pug from a much larger pool of people, especially at off hours, so I'm perfectly content to trade off the summoning stone wars for being able to do fun things at 6am server when the universe is asleep.

[Vyn]

...

I miss Vanilla. Fucking NOWHERE was safe after Westfall/Barrens. Back when a gold for a level 5 character was like 'HOLY SHITFUCK?!? IS THAT GOLD?!? YOU'RE FUCKING RIGHT IT IS!!!'

But as for the instance fighting thing... from what I'm hearing, most of the complaining (?) is about holiday weekends (?). Scarlet Monastery is in HORDE territory. If you're Alliance, you would get attacked/autoflagged just for walking in there, even on a normal server.

I DID have some epic battles outside of AN back in the day. A couple 80s trying to gank a couple 72s, then the rest of the group arrived and we camped them. Oh yeah, that was AWESOME and my epeen felt huge.

[Yatokth]

I'll bitch about pvp if I want to, and will.

And I find it funny that another fix that Blizzard is implimenting is again, THE DEATH OF PvP AS WE KNOW IT! *dramatic music*

Wait...

Weren't flying mounts supposed to ruin pvp?

Resilience fixes, wasn't that prophesied to be the end of PvP?

Even arenas way back when were said to be HORRIBLE AND DISGUSTING for PvP!!! *gasp*

I just find all this very funny.

I hardly think this will ruin PvP, I just dislike the whole 'lobby' mindset going on.

The only reason I brought up PvP is cause some people complained about it happening.

[Malorii]

I WANT THE NEW NON COMABT PET!

They could nerf all my classes to the bitter edges of outer darkness nerf hell, give me a non-combat pet for it and I won't care.


It has to twinkle some how though..

Edit: Vyn my epeen was huge back on vanilla days D: .. fond fond memories. Now I'm like that old player in a forgotten geriatric ward, sure I might have had a hooge cock and 15 gold and an epic mount. Now however, I have trouble gumming oatmeal and holding my bladder in.

[Vyn]

Edit: Vyn my epeen was huge back on vanilla days D: .. fond fond memories. Now I'm like that old player in a forgotten geriatric ward, sure I might have had a hooge cock and 15 gold and an epic mount. Now however, I have trouble gumming oatmeal and holding my bladder in.

I know what you mean. /sigh

Vanilla... this is what all true blizzards strive for.

[Lisbet]

wow guys, I made one comment on how being in first legion basicly puts a big "FREE KILL" over my head ;p

I wasn't complaining about being on a pvp server. If you wanna see me complain, come sit in vent with me while I'm trying to do dailies ;p

[Yatokth]

wow guys, I made one comment on how being in first legion basicly puts a big "FREE KILL" over my head ;p

Doesn't really make sense.

Your guild is actually renowned for having a large amount of people in top of the line PvE gear, as one of the (the best?) foremost raiding guilds on the server, and thus kill one person, get 7 dudes in T9 come and rip off your face.

How's that a bad thing?

EDIT: Note that before anyone tries to drama it up, I'm not trying to insult First Legion, anyone who has those kinds of numbers brings them when they need help, period. RC does the same thing. We just have PvP gear instead.

[Necroxis]

EDIT: Note that before anyone tries to drama it up, I'm not trying to insult First Legion, anyone who has those kinds of numbers brings them when they need help, period. RC does the same thing. We just have PvP gear instead.

Yup us too.

[Boudika]

I leveled my priest holy and guildless from 1-80 when BC came out. Getting your face stomped regularly is just part of the deal...or you adapt. *shrug*

[Tillna]

Oh no. I can que up from some place, do an instance, then be back where I started from. This is going to kil the game play cause no less groups have to wait for people to get to the stone. Just full group, repair/restock, instance, done.

Yeah, this is going to kill shit.

A lot of shit.

With hammers

[Lysimachus]

The people that don't world PvP anyway aren't going to world PvP any more or any less, I should think, as a result of this change!

The people who enjoy it will still do it, nyeees.

[Rand_Shea]

The people that don't world PvP anyway aren't going to world PvP any more or any less, I should think, as a result of this change!

The people who enjoy it will still do it, nyeees.

That's how it's always been and how it always will be. Any change to the game is always TEH DISASTAAAARRRR and the TEH END OF TEH PEEEEVEEEEPEEEEZ... Portals to cities. Flying mounts. Sanctuaries. Non-mandatory flagging in faction controlled territories. Location-free queuing and transport. EVERYTHING IS THE END OF PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER INTERACTION BAAAAAWWW

Nevermind that it never IS and people always find a way to find MOAR PEEVEEPEE and keep having fun doing MOAR PEEVEEPEE regardless of whatever changes Blizzard does to their game. And nevermind that summoning stone battles and other forms of pvp that are made more easily avoidable for those who don't WANT to participate in it, suck ass anyway.

Raiders, RPers, and toon levelers aren't the only ones who QQ about changes... Hardcore PvPers QQ just as much if not more.

[Boudika]

Im not sure if anyone really said it was going to necessarily KILL anything especially pvp....only at the stone of course.

No one can deny the fact that this upcoming change will indeed make things EASIER. Its the same response when anything in wow is changed to make things a lil more convenient. All I see it doing is just removing an annoyance (and some might consider it a waste of time) for players.

[Rand_Shea]

Yes, but people are, obviously, still bitching over it because they have one less chance to kill people... some of them being people on this forum, who in some way will just make up threads or posts complaining about how they were targeted and "ZOMG I'm not good at pvp stop killing me :( :( :( :(", which they will in turn bitch "ZOMG PVP SERVER PUT UP WITH IT OR GTFO BAAWWW".

Oh, and once more, apparently fighting and killing people who aren't prepared or are just going to stand there so they can corpse walk to wherever they're going apparently isn't "fun pvp" to begin with...

So, other than being a reason to perpetuate a cycle of bitching and whining, there's really no reason for anyone to object to any of these new changes. The "whiny bluewalling bitches" who don't want to/can't pvp don't have to deal with being put into pvp situations they want nothing to do with, and the pvpers who want that challenge and thrill of a good fight are going to be the only ones NOT using the system to avoid pvp situations.

In the end, doesn't it actually work in their favor? I think it does... and in the end, the GMs can tend to ACTUAL problems rather than "QQ THIS ONE ASSHOLE GUILD/PLAYER IS CAMPING A DUNGEON ENTRANCE SO NO ONE CAN GET IN".

[Kaliera]

God forbid people would rather have -more- options for PvP on a PvP server instead of getting more and more options stripped away with every goddamn patch.

Anyone who thinks world PvP is even a shadow of it's former self in Vanilla is delusional. Back then, you could spark up PvP wars at stones and quest hubs that would last for hours on end. In Wrath, you're lucky if a skirmish lasts for 30 seconds to five minutes. When the dust settles, there is no fighting back. There is no regrouping to retake the area with superior numbers or tactics, there's just hoppin' on the good ol' flying mounts and fleeing with tails tucked between the legs. When the stone change goes live, all that will be left will be daily hubs, where there is little-to-no hope at finding a coordinated group to spark something up with. Joy of joys.

Comparing Wrath PvP to Vanilla is like comparing a pack of bottle rockets to a full-on fireworks display. I can't say I'm surprised, given that this entire expansion has been the pacifier given to the vocal tear-stained majority.

[Edit] The entire reason attacking people who are unprepared/uninterested isn't fun is because flying mounts / summons removed the need for anyone to call for help. If that garbage didn't exist, picking a fight with one, regardless of his/her interest or skill, would most often get you a group to fight against that likely WOULD be interested in kicking your ass. It was fun.

[Yatokth]

Yes, but people are, obviously, still bitching over it because they have one less chance to kill people... some of them being people on this forum, who in some way will just make up threads or posts complaining about how they were targeted and "ZOMG I'm not good at pvp stop killing me :( :( :( :(", which they will in turn bitch "ZOMG PVP SERVER PUT UP WITH IT OR GTFO BAAWWW".

Oh, and once more, apparently fighting and killing people who aren't prepared or are just going to stand there so they can corpse walk to wherever they're going apparently isn't "fun pvp" to begin with...

So, other than being a reason to perpetuate a cycle of bitching and whining, there's really no reason for anyone to object to any of these new changes. The "whiny bluewalling bitches" who don't want to/can't pvp don't have to deal with being put into pvp situations they want nothing to do with, and the pvpers who want that challenge and thrill of a good fight are going to be the only ones NOT using the system to avoid pvp situations.

In the end, doesn't it actually work in their favor? I think it does... and in the end, the GMs can tend to ACTUAL problems rather than "QQ THIS ONE ASSHOLE GUILD/PLAYER IS CAMPING A DUNGEON ENTRANCE SO NO ONE CAN GET IN".

You're ENTIRELY missing the point.

It's about an authentic environment, sure, stomping Baddie McBubbledin over there doesn't necessarily provide a challenge, but if I want a challenge, I'll go do Arenas.

Yes, I enjoy challenging World PvP (And the lack of it makes me sad when said lack occurs), but a PvP server is, by its nature, unfair and imbalanced when PvP occurs in the world, and the authenticity occurs when EVERYONE is FORCED to PvP - it keeps everyone on the same wavelength, it feels more meaningful, the world is more alive.

The more convenience and lobby-ism you put in the game, the more the game moves away from such an environment, which is disappointing to those of us who have enjoyed such an environment, because that's what a PvP server could be.

[Szordrin]

Yeah. What Yat said.

WoW has become a breeding ground for Yuppies.

Let's get our khaki's on and go ride around our gated community with golf carts.

[Ryoku]

Yeah. What Yat said.

WoW has become a breeding ground for Yuppies.

Let's get our khaki's on and go ride around our gated community with golf carts.

Great shot, Perrington!

[Rand_Shea]

You're ENTIRELY missing the point.

It's about an authentic environment, sure, stomping Baddie McBubbledin over there doesn't necessarily provide a challenge, but if I want a challenge, I'll go do Arenas.

Yes, I enjoy challenging World PvP (And the lack of it makes me sad when said lack occurs), but a PvP server is, by its nature, unfair and imbalanced when PvP occurs in the world, and the authenticity occurs when EVERYONE is FORCED to PvP - it keeps everyone on the same wavelength, it feels more meaningful, the world is more alive.

The more convenience and lobby-ism you put in the game, the more the game moves away from such an environment, which is disappointing to those of us who have enjoyed such an environment, because that's what a PvP server could be.

Yet still... fighting over stones and instance portals supposedly isn't fun, and in your own words "sucks ass" because people don't fight back.

So you're either complaining that people can't deal with pvp servers, or complaining that people who don't want to pvp won't pvp and have the option of more effective avoiding you.

Yet, again... pvp against THOSE kinds of people isn't fun...

The logic is circular and once again seems like it's complaining for the sake of complaining that not everyone wants to play the game like you do.

Maybe there needs to be a stricter ruleset on pvp servers where if you just stand there and flop over like a limp dick everytime someone hits you, it puts you on a points system where X number of times that happens means you're automatically transferred off the server to a normal server not of your choosing. Maybe on pvp servers flying mounts should disappear entirely anytime someone of the opposite faction is within 50 meters of your character or be disabled entirely with teleport points provided for getting to flight only instances/raids or questing areas. Maybe pvp should be enabled on all characters at all times regardless of where they are, no matter what level or if they're in a city. Maybe sanctuaries should be disabled entirely as well.

I don't see a lot of people existing on pvp servers if that happened, which is maybe what you and some others here want. If so, take your suggestions to Blizzard's forum and maybe you'll get lucky and have a developer agree with you.

In the meantime, that's not how it is, and for all intents and purposes, not how Blizzard intended or ever intends for it to be. PvP on PvP servers, like the RP element for TN, for as much as you can avoid it CAN still be avoided. It is an optional element of the game for those who don't want to participate in it for whatever reason.

Again, I don't see this killing pvp. I see this, at most, keeping the whiners and crybabies who are too stubborn and stupid to roll on a proper server happy and keeping the number of "QQ DAT MEEN WHORED/ALLIUNS KILLED MEH!" tickets to a minimum and maybe cutting down on the time it takes for a GM to respond to legitimate complaints and issues without it taking hours or days.


God forbid people would rather have -more- options for PvP on a PvP server instead of getting more and more options stripped away with every goddamn patch.

God forbid not everyone plays the way you do, even if it is utterly idiotic that people who don't want to pvp would roll on this server. How dare they be different at all, huh?

[Tovann]

Anyone who thinks world PvP is even a shadow of it's former self in Vanilla is delusional. Back then, you could spark up PvP wars at stones and quest hubs that would last for hours on end. In Wrath, you're lucky if a skirmish lasts for 30 seconds to five minutes. When the dust settles, there is no fighting back. There is no regrouping to retake the area with superior numbers or tactics, there's just hoppin' on the good ol' flying mounts and fleeing with tails tucked between the legs.


I hope you remember the ol' wars in Hillsbrad. When buddies would bring their buddies, who happened to know a whole lot of 60's bored while waiting for molten core, and then REAL world pvp occurred. Not these little four vs four, but Alterac Valley sized armies.

Edit: Good times.

[Ansha]

Orrrrrrrrrrr.....

We can leave things as they are, and those of us who don't care to pvp all the time don't have to.

[Ryoku]

Suddenly a Ryoku whisps into the room with his powers of logic and sensibility.

If Blizzard enforced some nasty PvP rules into the PvP server. Some balls out nasty war-torn holy shit you better be ready to get your ass whooped all day every day PvP dickfest, then the appropriate response to people on PvP servers who don't like it should be:


BLIZZARD[/COLOR]]If you don't like it then pay us money to transfer to a server that better fits your preferences

It shouldn't be:


We're going to make it easier because there just aren't people on a PvP server who really want to PvP. Those people need to be taken into account because we'll lose money

You want to know why? Because no person playing this game. THIS GAME. Ever quits. Blizzard gives people the option to throw down 25 bucks to move their character to a PvE server (and now even the option to move back) and you can bet that people would use that option before canceling their subscription.

Also, to remain on the original topic, I don't like this new queuing system because back in my day we didn't have these fancy flying mounts to get to our summoning stones. We had to have two people take a flight path, and ride as far as the latitude of the burning steppes by land uphill both ways in the snow during a hailstorm while wearing greens and with a dragon on their backs just go get to the damn stone! And then! Then you had to summon all 40 people BY HAND one by one with all sorts of other people trying to get to the SAME PORTAL.

And sometimes those riders still had their 60% mounts!

In understandable terms: I think it's lazy because flying on your 280% (310%?) mount, going to a stone, summoning, or if the stone is PvP'd, just having everyone else get on their 280% (310%?) flying mount and ride themselves is hard.

[Jeedup]

Don't forget Warlock summons.

I can't remember an instance so far this week I was summoned by a Stone.

THEM WARLOCKS ARE KILLING DAH PVP GUYZ.

[Ryoku]

Don't forget Warlock summons.

I can't remember an instance so far this week I was summoned by a Stone.

THEM WARLOCKS ARE KILLING DAH PVP GUYZ.

WARLOCK SUMMONS.

Back in my day Warlocks couldn't summon a big ol' stone that summoned people, they had to summon people one by one OUTSIDE the instance, and it cost a SOUL SHARD for EVERY ONE.

[Rand_Shea]

Because no person playing this game. THIS GAME. Ever quits.

I beg to differ. :P I've said I'll come back, and I will once I have something that'll let me see all the graphics I PAID to see to begin with, but quitting was very easy.

WoW's not going to last forever, and Blizzard has kept the numbers it has in it by pandering to the highest common denominator. This isn't the days of Vanilla WoW where you had either this game, EverQuest, or some incarnation of a typical Korean MMO. The choices are many, and more are on the way.

The competition may still fall short of expectations and fail at being the "WoWkiller", but it's still competition. Something is bound to give, and expansions aren't cheap to make, so at the very least they're going to keep pandering to the whiners, the pussies, and the people who want it "easymode" to get as much as they can for all the work they're putting into things like IceCrown and ultimately Cataclysm.

But the last thing I want is this to turn into an economics debate, so...

Once more I'll reiterate that as unfortunate as it is, the majority of the people on ANY server, pvp or not, are not interested in being killed or killing other players for every single moment they're logged on. Nothing is going to change that, either.

And when it comes to the whiners, pussies, and non-pvpers on pvp servers, how is not having to listen to them gripe a bad thing again? Especially when the way they do it now is to roll a level 1 alt on YOUR faction that you can't kill anyway for revenge and you have to wait until whenever they get back on the other-faction character to do anything about it?

Once again, I don't see the problem, other than that people want a reason to panic and declare doom, gloom, and that the sky is falling.

[Kaliera]

God forbid not everyone plays the way you do, even if it is utterly idiotic that people who don't want to pvp would roll on this server. How dare they be different at all, huh?

There are many more beneficial ways to be a beautiful and unique snowflake than to roll on a PvP server with zero interest in PvPing. Going against the grain just for the sake of doing so and then complaining about the repercussions of said decision borders pants-on-head retarded.

The bulk of what's irritating about these design decisions is that there have been options since release for those who want nothing to do with PvP. Want to slay internet dragons all day? That's awesome, there are PvE servers just for that! Are you more interested in adding a touch of story to the slaying of internet dragons? Even better, check out the RP tagged servers! Since vanilla, these options have been available, yet the ability to actually PvP on PvP servers have been cut down in a nickel-and-dimed fashion for years. After so many changes veering PvP servers closer and closer to PvE, it's no wonder people are rubbed the wrong way about yet another being tossed out. If they wanted PvE rulesets, they'd have rolled there years ago.

[Swerto]

I love the idea that there is zero PvP on PvE servers, in fact there is a ton of PvP, just people aren't FORCED to PvP

I hate that they are turning PvP servers into that sense of not being forced. Yes you should be forced to PvP on a PvP server, it's the fucking point.

[Ryoku]

There are many more beneficial ways to be a beautiful and unique snowflake than to roll on a PvP server with zero interest in PvPing. Going against the grain just for the sake of doing so and then complaining about the repercussions of said decision borders pants-on-head retarded.

The bulk of what's irritating about these design decisions is that there have been options since release for those who want nothing to do with PvP. Want to slay internet dragons all day? That's awesome, there are PvE servers just for that! Are you more interested in adding a touch of story to the slaying of internet dragons? Even better, check out the RP tagged servers! Since vanilla, these options have been available, yet the ability to actually PvP on PvP servers have been cut down in a nickle-and-dimed fashion for years. After so many changes veering PvP servers closer and closer to PvE, it's no wonder people are rubbed the wrong way about yet another being tossed out. If they wanted PvE rulesets, they'd have rolled there years ago.

Said it better than I did.

Hell, I remember the days when stealing/killing someone over a mining node could end up prompting an entire guild war that'd last a half hour easy. Don't see that much anymore with that whole "fly away to another node half a zone away" thing. It's all "gank n' fly" now.

[Necroxis]

Said it better than I did.

Hell, I remember the days when stealing/killing someone over a mining node could end up prompting an entire guild war that'd last a half hour easy. Don't see that much anymore with that whole "fly away to another node half a zone away" thing. It's all "gank n' fly" now.

Back in the day...I walked fifteen hundred miles, uphill, in the snow, barefooted.

I call shenanigans. I've been on this stupid game since about a month to month 1/2 before AQ was launched and even in Pre-BC, people had better things to do than send their entire guilds to fight over a node.

Now back in the Southshore vs Tarren Mill days...too bad that was kille--

Wait a minute...

It still happens now.

My sentiment was pretty much expressed already: "Everything apparently destroys pvp. Oh wait, no it doesn't."

People will always find ways to kill each other.

Hell, I think the past few months I've spent defending SS and attacking TM more than I have in the rest of my 4 years on WoW.

[Vaaldis]

WARLOCK SUMMONS.

Back in my day Warlocks couldn't summon a big ol' stone that summoned people, they had to summon people one by one OUTSIDE the instance, and it cost a SOUL SHARD for EVERY ONE.

Don't you EVER, EVER bring that up ever a-fucking-gain. Got it?

[Ryoku]

Dude are you serious? It'd always happen like this:

Random Horde (or Alliance, it doesn't matter this is just an example) is out mining Thorium (or whatever), Random Alliance comes about, ganks random Horde, and strips the node. Random Horde gets pissed and sets out for vengeance, finding Random Alliance, ganking him and camping him. Random Alliance apparently gets tired and calls in some friends to help. Random Horde calls in his friends. Random Alliance calls in more friends, Random Horde types in guild chat "Hey we're fighting some guys from <Asshole guild> can we get some help" gm says "I fucking hate that guild, let's rollout" and bam, big ol' PvP fest in the middle of buttfuck nowhere. Didn't happen everyday (or even every week) but I assure you it sure as hell happened.

Also, flying mounts haven't been implemented in Azeroth yet. Wait for that to come and I can almost guarantee those battles will diminish with unpreventable escape.

[Villayna]

I swear everytime the letters P,V, and P are typed out on TNG, an amoeba loses its brain cell.