Blood elf and human communication

[Cabriel]

Help me with this for my current RP:

The mages of the Kirin Tor are the ones who run the tower at Amber Ridge. In game, I can speak to them. In lore, I shouldn't be able to, right?

How can I resolve this in my RP?

[Broxigan]

You are a blood elf. You were once a high elf. High elves were part of the Alliance.

Also, in-game mechanics =/= the way things work half the time. XD

[Anthek]

With the release of WotLK, Dalaran is no longer exclusive to either side. Actually, there's internal debate within the Kirin Tor about the acceptance of the blood elves, with the Sunreavers working for it, and the Silver Covenant, led by Vereesa Windrunner, against it.

[Xaraphyne]

I'm using that the neutral factions speak whatever language is your faction's common one when you speak to them. Same deal with, for example, goblins, or... any of the BC factions really.

Unless that's not why you were saying you shouldn't be able to speak to them.

[Taknar]

I think you should just be applauded for not RPing that you can speak other languages than what the game gives you.

[Sifar]

I think you should just be applauded for not RPing that you can speak other languages than what the game gives you.

Every time I run across Agnarr or Akuje, I just RP that they understood my begging yet chose to attempt to exterminate me anyway. 'Cause they would.


As for Cab's original question, I'd certainly put most of the bi-lingual ability on the NPCs unless you've picked up enough to get by, as well.

[Cabriel]

I decided it was enough that Cabriel has a working, if not perfect, knowledge of Common. After all, he's had extensive dealings with goblins.

[Rand_Shea]

Being part of the Alliance for quite a long time and only recently breaking off from it in history, along with the fact that Blood Elves live for hundreds of years as opposed to just a few decades, it would stand to reason that a lot of them knew common and it was something that was widely taught through whatever forms of public education there were.... or children learned it from hearing their parents speak it, etc.

Why you can't understand it now? Just game mechanics preventing BE's from translating things to Alliance races for the sole purpose of pissing other people off, the same way that common was taken away from the Forsaken during the alpha testing of WoW way back when.

I RP it that my hunter can speak and understand it fluently, but due to not having many Alliance contacts or friends, either ignores it or pretends he doesn't understand. Occasionally if an Alliance decides to talk at me, I'll "translate" the phrase to whatever I want them to actually be saying and have him respond to whatever it is I think up.

So... if you've ever heard him say "No, I don't know why you'd want to swing a chicken over your head while dancing naked... Freak", that's why.

My priest, on the other hand... can't understand much if any of the other faction's languages depending on which 'form' she's in at the time. Sometimes I do cross-faction translations for people, but usually only if asked and it's not actually through my character.

As for the Kirin Tor... even if they were initially a part of the Alliance, their purpose was to pursue magical research and only got involved in the wars because their own existence was threatened. They're neutral now, and many of the elven members are either the people who taught the first humans how to use magic, or were members before the breaking off of the High Elves from the Alliance. Dalaran as a separate entity isn't concerned with the conflicts going on between Alliance and Horde and is part of the leading force against the Lich King because the Lich King is a very obvious threat to their existence that they won't tolerate being left alone. To accomplish the goal of killing said threat, they need people from both sides helping them, and while there may be lingering hatreds towards many of the horde races from previous wars, the overall understanding is that either they suck it up and get along or face a fate of being invaded by and converted into the Scourge.

Also, the issue in Dalaran is not whether or not to accept Elves, it's whether or not to accept Blood Elves due to their involvement with demons in Burning Crusade, including Kael'Thas' attempt to resummon Kil'Jaedan. The Sunreavers argue that Kael'Thas mislead and tricked them and that Blood Elves do not present a current or future threat to the Kirin Tor. The Silver Covenant, lead by Vereesa, is arguing that they can't be trusted due to said involvement with demons, their breaking off of the Alliance, and their seemingly traitorous decision to join the Horde and thus become allies with the Orcs, whom had ravaged many Alliance kingdoms in the not too distant past.

[Taknar]

Why you can't understand it now? Just game mechanics preventing BE's from translating things to Alliance races for the sole purpose of pissing other people off, the same way that common was taken away from the Forsaken during the alpha testing of WoW way back when.

The way I have always interpreted this phenomenon with Blood Elves unable to speak Common is that only the elite ever bothered to learn the language, and the others had no need to interact with humans in the first place. I also assume (since there is nothing in game to prove otherwise) that all Blood Elf characters are random soldiers/nobodies.

With the Forsaken unable to speak the language they knew before death? I got nothing.

[Swerto]

Hiding the fact you're a warlock makes it so you can be not killed by them

Understanding wise... most High Elves/Blood Elves speak common, same with Forsaken. Just in game they removed that to create a dehumanizing speech barrier that would stop factions from talking to create more malice for the other side. Also it cuts down on the trash talking.

Also I'm sure the mages of the Kirin Tor have learned to speak Orcish at least at a comprehensible level to communicate with the Horde.

[Cabriel]

Hiding the fact you're a warlock makes it so you can be not killed by them


Yeah. Cabby has gained access to the library and facilities at Amber Ledge by only sharing his research on crystal matrices and their concurrent physical, chemical, and metaphysical properties. Nevermind that it's all in attempt to create a soul shard that allows him to control his demonic transformation. lol

It's all in my journal.

[Agnarr]

The language barrier is a silly mechanic, not based in Lore whatsoever (or warcraft 1-3 would be filled with people going "what?")
That doesn't mean blood elves would know Darnassian. But they'd sure as hell know Common, just like Forsaken would.

And Sifar, I don't think I've ever actually seen you to kill you. :(

[Alphaeus]

I RP Al as having of been taught Common back before his people left the Alliance. However, it's a language that he has to stop and listen to so that he can understand it. If he's not paying attention, it goes right over his head. So, if I'm not getting translations, or RPing with them on a messenger, Al's not paying attention to what they're saying.

Otherwise, an entire race spontaneously forgot an entire language and learned another one almost overnight. That doesn't jive well with me.

There should have been a 'learning Orcish' questline in lowbie land.

[Pyrisath]

First, Low Common imo. Basically street slang, what your character might learn from listening to common being spoken in the underbelly... I think I might play this off on one of my characters. NOTE: Even by RPG rules, I believe orcs can speak low common. So it is not race-specific.

Second, game mechanics should not affect your RPing experience. In essence, Low Common is basically Gutterspeak. Gutterspeak translates out the same way common does, so you can do the same language tricks as undead as Alliance can.

Third, "IN GAME" DOES NOT EQUAL "IN LORE".

Fourth-ly. There are plently of lore reasons why you should be able to talk with them. They might have learned Thalassian or orcish, you might have known enough common to translate ideas. I do not know your full character background, but if you were around when Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas were alive and on good terms, then you could probably speak something.

Just my opinion, anyways.

[Rand_Shea]

The way I have always interpreted this phenomenon with Blood Elves unable to speak Common is that only the elite ever bothered to learn the language, and the others had no need to interact with humans in the first place. I also assume (since there is nothing in game to prove otherwise) that all Blood Elf characters are random soldiers/nobodies.

With the Forsaken unable to speak the language they knew before death? I got nothing.

Well, most of the survivors of Quel'Thalas according to lore are mostly nobility, weren't they? I thought I read that somewhere... hence why I made my hunter and his brother the sons of a very high ranking noble. That and having a parental antagonist works better if that antagonist has a shit-tonne of money and resources to use against you.

As far as game mechanics goes, to make up an RP excuse for it, I assumed it would be banned to speak it at all (within earshot of authorities, of course) due to the blood elf tendency to be extremely bitter and vengeful against those who they've been wronged by (The Alliance). What's the best way to tell someone "go fuck yourself"? Close off all communication. Pretty sure Kael'Thas would have probably made that declaration at some point. Banning Common from being spoken at all (under penalty of getting your shit pushed in by an arcane driven robot) would be a way to do that.

Some could have the excuse of unlearning it if they wanted, but it's kinda hard to forget something that was hammered into your brain for decades while growing up.

As for the Forsaken... if Gutterspeak wasn't a language prior to their forming (It was the "Underground" language of smugglers, thieves, and other people living in the underlying bowels of Lordaeron), I'd say that the rot brought on by simple decomposing or effects of the plague warped the mind to where they could only understand a new mutated version of common and speak it in lieu of actual common. Other than that... maybe Sylvanas in her bitterness towards Arthas and possibly the Alliance for all the crap they pulled just banned it for the Undercity too.

[Swerto]

Low Common and Gutterspeak are actually close languages, they are a mixture of Dwarvish and Common.

The language was that used by outcasts and thieves in the underground which is why the Forsaken saw fit to adopt it as their main language to give it that much more symbolism.

If I ever Rped a human rogue I'd RP him knowing Gutterspeak.


How do I handle my characters not always knowing it?

Swerto (forsaken) knows common, just he refuses to speak it having adopted Gutterspeak as his main language to move himself even further from humanity. He also usually refuses to speak Orcish.

Securo? He knows common, he just refuses to speak the "lesser" language and prefers the elegance of Thalasian.

[Keraph]

The language barrier is a silly mechanic, not based in Lore whatsoever (or warcraft 1-3 would be filled with people going "what?")

I'd so re-write War3 with the language barrier in mind

Medivh: "THRALL, you must take your people to the ancient lands of Kalimdor to prevent the demonic Burning Legion from invading Azeroth!!!!!!!!!oneone!11111!11"

Thrall: "wtfalliancenoob? kek, I'm going back to bed."

[Naheal]

The way I have always interpreted this phenomenon with Blood Elves unable to speak Common is that only the elite ever bothered to learn the language, and the others had no need to interact with humans in the first place. I also assume (since there is nothing in game to prove otherwise) that all Blood Elf characters are random soldiers/nobodies.

With the Forsaken unable to speak the language they knew before death? I got nothing.


I have an easy explaination for both: Lorderon Common =! Stormwind Common. They're similar, but the differences are enough where you'd have a difficult (read near impossible) time understanding it.

[Taknar]

Except that after Warcraft 1, all the humans lived in the same areas. I'd have a hard time believing that the exiled Stormwind humans couldn't communicate with the Lorderon folk. Not to mention if you want to seperate Lorderon and Stormwind languages, you'd have to be fair and seperate Gilneas, Arathi, etc.

What's so taboo about saying "There exists something that the majority of elves don't know?" I mean, you suggested that two peoples that co-existed in the same area for 20 someodd years don't know each others languages. What is so farfetched about a xenophobic race that never co-existed (as in, it's farmers had joined lands) with humans not knowing Common?

[Aphraelle]

I'm with Taknar, I don't think that Common dialects would have diverged to the point of being mutually unintelligible languages in the time frame as I understand it. That takes a minimum of about five hundred years in the cases that I know of (the divergence of modern Irish and Gaelic, the development of the modern dialects of Nahuatl after conquest, etc., and even in those cases there is some degree of inter-intelligibility).

Elves in general don't think that much of humans, so I have no difficulty believing that most of them wouldn't bother picking up their language - I'd find it more likely that the ones who do know Common, or Orcish for that matter, only picked it up grudgingly and only learned it well so as to sound good. If I have to acquire this ugly jargon, I'm not having the natives laugh at me, that sort of thing.

[Qabian]

Trying to play as one of the nobodies from the blood elf campaign that took place in Dalaran, and assuming Dalaran may have been majority human but not entirely, considering the elves' involvement with the Kirin Tor generally and the proliferation of elves available to that campaign, makes not knowing Common awkward. I generally go with the idea that Qabian hates it. Hated the language when he had to know it. Hates it now. Avoids it like the plague most of the time. Whether or not he just completely ignores or actually doesn't understand people who do use it I figure comes out to the same result at least where he's concerned. It's not like someone could insult his mother and get a reaction from him.

I admit abusing it on occasion and just go with him having a terrible accent. Figure he's probably more literate in it than fluent. I can read/write some languages that I couldn't speak to save my life, so I give him the same kind of understanding.

Orcish is a language of convenience that doesn't have anywhere near as many reasons for him to hate it, so he uses it.

That being said, it makes perfect sense for a majority of surviving elves not to know Common because of the xenophobia, yes. As for resolving the problem with the Kirin Tor, I'd also go with the idea that they can speak in whatever language suits you best, rather than you trying to accommodate them. After all, they're neutral faction NPCs now. I'm sure they've taken the appropriate 'dealing with adventurers' training courses.

*shrug*

[Swerto]

I have an easy explaination for both: Lorderon Common =! Stormwind Common. They're similar, but the differences are enough where you'd have a difficult (read near impossible) time understanding it.

Nooo...

Because Wrynn and Arthas were childhood friends. Meaning they spoke with eachother in the same language at all times with no trouble understanding one another.

Humans can understand All other humans.

By this logic Dalaran Common |= Lorderaan/Stormwind or any other Common.

Not to mention the time thing... it takes over a thousand years for a language to diverge to the point it's no longer understandable.



Common = Common

[Taknar]

Not to mention the time thing... it takes over a thousand years for a language to diverge to the point it's no longer understandable.



Common = Common

Welcome to 7 hours ago Swerto! (tip: read all the responses)

[Swerto]

Welcome to 7 hours ago Swerto! (tip: read all the responses)
I did, I just had to throw in my two cents and agree with past responses at the same time. Sheesh.

[Taknar]

I did, I just had to throw in my two cents and agree with past responses at the same time. Sheesh.

Yeah, I know. I'm just in a cranky mood today. Sorry about that.

[Naheal]

What's so taboo about saying "There exists something that the majority of elves don't know?" I mean, you suggested that two peoples that co-existed in the same area for 20 someodd years don't know each others languages. What is so farfetched about a xenophobic race that never co-existed (as in, it's farmers had joined lands) with humans not knowing Common?

The problem with that is the simple fact that speaking common would be like speaking a typical trade language. True, not all elves would speak common, but a fair amount would out of necessity.

[Pyrisath]

Oi. Language differences by area/race usage are like cultural usage differences, imo. A gamer speaks a different form of english than a 'gangster', an intellectual(mage) speaks different from a countrymen/cityfolk(SW, etc). So, the only difference is the slang. The language is basically the same, but words have different meanings for other people. We all still speak english, but due to area differences, it is sometimes hard to converse a very specific idea.

TL;DR(Cause most of you seem to have ignored what I said), SLANG IS DIFFERENT. CONNOTATION CHANGES.

Common = Common, as it was said before. But that is extremely general. Bay area english = east coast english, but my slang would be different from a east coaster.

Only Elves who traded with Lordaeron regularly, or nobles, would really have to learn common. Even then, that is limited.

Qabian, I share somewhat the same view as you. Iricillian never really had to learn common before the events in Dalaran, the only time he had to visit anywhere outside of Quel'Thalas was his induction to the Silver Hand, and the occasional paladin counsel. After those events, he was surrounded by blood elves who spoke common language, and never conversed with naga. He never had any contact for years, so I play him off as very talkative. He likes having things and people to speak to. But, because these events that took him from his silence only recently happened, he doesn't 'know' orcish, either(I plan on having him finish learning it eventually, I swear). And now... He has a couple of words from common from his assault on New Avalon, and a couple from being in Dalaran.


On topic, IMO it is best to consider character history if you are an elf. Do you have reason to learn it? Do you have a teacher to have taught it, and the time to learn it? What type of common would have learned, high class common, low (class) common? I used this when deciding for Iricillian. It works.