No more DK's?

[Fallacy]

It's possible...

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9369947&p=1&tmp=1#post9369947

[Karkarov]

Hmm I would rather they just made them invulnerable or untargetable personally. Cheesy yes but it solves the issue without making npc/questgiver griefing possible. Either way they said they would test it, not implement it. I am curious to hear what these other pvp changes are in the burning crusade update that are hinted at in the post.

[Thurgo]

Ah...DKs are fun...

[Cedes]

Ah...DKs are fun...


my question is what is gunna be done about end game raids currently and PVP items?

will the pvp gear/ gm weapons have updated verions.? (kind like the wsg weapons/ rings...have a lvl 58 ring and a lvl68 ring, etc?) Im thinking of something liek wsg rewards. Have our current rank 10 lvl 58 gear and have a rank 10 lvl 68 gear. Then have a rank 13-14 lvl 60 gear be upgraded to a lvl 70 rank 13-14 gear. Then have lvl 70 Gm weapons......but thats just my idea.


the current raiding dungeons will kinda be stupid come expansion. I mean, unless you want some epics to help for when you go raiding at lvl 70 id do them. But it'd be no different than going to BRD/UBRS/DM/scholo/strat is right now. Plus what new raid dungeons will there be?



PS- Naxx would be so easy at 70 i bet in lvl 70 epics. A walk in the park lol.

[Karkarov]

It is nothing like what you describe. They have already said getting 60-70 WILL take as long as getting 1-60. You will not be able to just grind to 70 have a bunch of greens and go raid a 70 dungeon. You will need real gear and experiance in a raid environment and the more complex strategies they represent to stand a chance in raid 70 dungeons.

Also if you look at the patch... other than Medivh's tower (which I "think" they said is like a 10 or 20 man instance) they havent mentioned any new instances in burning crusade so I wouldnt be expecting a bunch of new 5 man instances with gear better than tier 1-3 that will let you just "skip" mc or bwl. The amount of fallout they will see from long time raid guilds if they make say AQ 40 obsolete will make PVP only players complaints look meaningless by comparison. They will lose thousands of accounts if they do it, so I dont see it happening.

Also if you have never been in a real level 60 raid (not just Cedes here but anyone) then you wouldnt know but... Every boss, even the most jobberfied of Ragnaros's minions is a ? to a level 60. Which means they are all at least 69 elites, most of them likely higher than that. And thats MC, god knows what Nax will look like when you can actually see the levels of the guys you are fighting. But even the mobs get to 64-65 elites so I expect alot of your leveling from 60-70 will be taking place in those afforementioned "60" raid instances.

PS: PVP gear is already overpowered and too easy to get. In the amount of time it takes to get 40 men READY to raid Naxxramas, much less accomplish anything in it, you could grind high warlord easily. So if they create new gear for PVP, then they need to create new even harder ranks or new factions and new BG's that are much harder to get rep with. Or just make the raiding gear flat better no comparison, which it is now actually so likely that is what will happen.

[Sinthe]

Kark, bosses are level 300 or 500.

[Fhenrir]

PS: PVP gear is already overpowered and too easy to get. In the amount of time it takes to get 40 men READY to raid Naxxramas, much less accomplish anything in it, you could grind high warlord easily. So if they create new gear for PVP, then they need to create new even harder ranks or new factions and new BG's that are much harder to get rep with. Or just make the raiding gear flat better no comparison, which it is now actually so likely that is what will happen.

Yes, because we're all just so easily able to sell our soul to the game to grind to HWL all day every day for over a month, AFTER taking the time to make Warlord.

It's already at the point where raiding gear can far outscale PvP gear as well, so I don't really see where you're coming from. Aren't you a prot warrior anyway?

[Daala]

Where was it stated that 60-70 will take as much time as 1-60?

[Nadea]

Hmm...no DK's...I could get used to that!

as for your PVP comment, Kark... its easier to Raid MC than it is getting the full PVP set X.x

[Cedes]

you like said what i was just asking about lol


changing the pvp stuff or raidng stuff is a big issue. I mean running MC, bwl, etc at 60 is nice. but what about after that? What about lvl 70 epics? what about lvl 70 pvp epics?.

Ive been to plenbty of raids i know what lvl bosses are and whats the deal with them. Im just saying that if their is a new raid instance at lvl 70 with liek a tier 4 then at 70 with tier 4 gear will make like the old end game raids much easier.


With 10 more lvls and a new world to explore, theres gunna be new weapons and new gear so to think that there cant be a lvl 70 armor set (tier4 ?) is crazy. Sadly we will never know till then.

You still got to think tho, blues have a +5 lvl difference to greens and purples have a +10 lvl difference (as in a lvl 60 green is kinda equivlent to a 55 blue and is equivlent to a 50 purple). So whats gunna happen when your a warrior liek me in lvl 58 rank 10 gear going up against someone in lvl 65+ gear..and maybe he wil have an epic lvl 65 2hander? what then?

[Cedes]

PS: PVP gear is already overpowered and too easy to get. In the amount of time it takes to get 40 men READY to raid Naxxramas, much less accomplish anything in it, you could grind high warlord easily. So if they create new gear for PVP, then they need to create new even harder ranks or new factions and new BG's that are much harder to get rep with. Or just make the raiding gear flat better no comparison, which it is now actually so likely that is what will happen.


PvP gear is so cheap due to teh fact that we have to earn it. Also bliz understands that PvP grinders are poor-ass-folk. Ive hovered around 7g-15g ever since i hit exaulted in AV when i once was rich. Raids dont require ass busting, just attendance lol. So you really dont understand till u try it. Thank god blizzard finally did something to the PvP armor. Now it is worth having. before it was useless, the bonuses were a joke. now a fully decked out rank 14 warrior with teh rank 14 shield can duke it out with a full wrath armor warrior with that elementium shield and still have more armor hahaha.

[Fhenrir]

Actually... PvP warrior armor is still completely worthless for tanking. What are you smoking, dwarf? O.o

[Tarlithion]

PvP Gear nets you more Agility, Crit% and Hit%. Wrath gives you Stamina, Strength and Defense. That's it. I'd like to see a Dual-weilding Fury Warrior tank Vaelstrasz :P

[Abric]

I think Cedes has something bottled up... and it is called a hijack! *Follows the lead, moo'ing all the way*


Also if you look at the patch... other than Medivh's tower (which I "think" they said is like a 10 or 20 man instance) they havent mentioned any new instances in burning crusade so I wouldnt be expecting a bunch of new 5 man instances with gear better than tier 1-3 that will let you just "skip" mc or bwl.

Crazy talk! They have Hellfire Citadel already lined up on the website. You will also have instances for at least Lady Vasha, Kael, and Illidan. Also, was per what Blizzard has said... Medivh's Tower will be a 10-man. Also concerning instances, they are going to have them winged. So that way you can partion it up - for those that don't have four to six hours to raid at one sitting.


Kark, bosses are level 300 or 500.

That's what mods tell you, Skyze. Bosses are level 63. They are elite mind you.. but level 63. I wish I could find the post, but I'm sure it's long gone - it was a blue response... so I take that over some mod trying to calculate level by hit points and damage and all that hoopla. I can one shot a level one... a level 300 (or god forbid, a 500) could fart and one-shot Orgrimmar.

...

Now, to the instances currently - I'm sure they will be as they are. If you noticed, they have been 'nerfing' them, at least by perspective. Things are a lot easier, gear is more plentiful... and we keep getting twinked for specific situations. Stratholme and Scholomance will be the new Sunken Temple and Blackrock Depths.... and those instances will be the new Uldaman and Maraudon - you go to farm stuff, and that's about it.

To the PvP/PvE thing... that's an arguement ever since they implemented PvP gear. Know what? The gear you get from PvP helps you out in PvP, and the gear you get from PvE helps you out in PvE. If you want PvP gear to do instances... then get gear *in* the instances, as it is intended. While it may not be *easier* to get PvP gear... you don't need 19-39 other people to help you get PvP rank. It helps, but you don't need it - as we've seen with most people who get High Warlord.

To the time? Well... that's a metric butt ton of time for High Warlord. But so is getting a full set of gear with an epic weapon while competing with 2-6 other people of your class off a boss that you can kill once a week, *if* you can beat him.

Oh yeah, I hope they get rid of DK's, because I do kind of like the ladder idea of PvP.

Then again... DK shows you who truly is HARDCORE! Nothing like seeing a big ass Tauren <Muatah> shy away from a peasant who can't even defend themselves.

... I laugh on the inside.

Abric
~Dropped a dime

[Muatah]

Abric, I'm too busy killing the 20 guards that the Civs generate out of nowhere, and otherwise covering everyones ass, to "shy away" from anything. 8)

[Cedes]

Actually... PvP warrior armor is still completely worthless for tanking. What are you smoking, dwarf? O.o

oh, i was just syaing in armor value. A rank 14 could beat a full epic prot warrior any day anyways lol



oh yeah....GO ABRIC! :D that post cleared up what i wanted to know.



so about this "no DK, latter" idea....would that mean the ranking would be a progression and not a fight to see who can out do who? That used to be my thought till i hit rank 6-7 back in March. I used to think that killing so many horde and getting so many wins (along with gaining etc amount of honor) gave you the next rank. Thats when i soon learned that it was all based on a system that everyone had to out due the next person to achieve a rank or goal before the next.


PvP Gear nets you more Agility, Crit% and Hit%. Wrath gives you Stamina, Strength and Defense. That's it. I'd like to see a Dual-weilding Fury Warrior tank Vaelstrasz :P

lemme switch my spec and ill down him myself.....even tho he is one big ass dragon :?

[Karkarov]

Of course a epic'd prot warrior would lose, not because of the gear though, but because his spec is crap for PVP. I can put on gear just as good if not better than my old gear I had when I was arms and equip the same weapon I used then, and my crits are still tons less often and about 700-1k less in damage on average. Thats all spec there, gear has no bearing.

Case in point.... My highest crit pre prot spec when I was arms was 3600 something. My highest since the change is about 1400.

[Abric]

Depending on how the revamp the entire honor system... who knows.

Though I hope however they do it - dishonorable kills aren't as... bleah. While I like the *idea* behind a dishonorable kill; I *do not* like the positioning and vast amount of DKs there are in the world.

My very first DK came from the elf in Razorfen Kraul... because some low level guild member decided to kill it, because it wasn't a DK to him. Which... I didn't much mind - but I was hoping my first DK would of been something better.

*cries* It wasn't how I pictured my first time...

[Seveir]

I don't just hope, I pray DKs go away.

Haven't started grinding PvP rank yet but I will close to 60. Don't want DKs crampin my style.

HWL rogue gear = teh sex.