Blood Knights Post Burning Crusade? ( WARNING: Sunwell Spoilers ) [Archive]

Leoren

10-19-2008, 07:17 AM

First I would like to open this thread say I have zero experience inside the Sunwell raid, and have not personally witnessed any of the story within that unfolds. That being said I saw this excerpt from WoW Insider's 'Ask a Lore Nerd' (http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/07/20/ask-a-lore-nerd-now-now-theres-enough-light-for-everybody/) that left me wondering:

Siona asks...

If the Blood Knights no longer have the Naaru in the basement to feed off of, what's supplying their powers now? Are they considered "true" Paladins?

Answer: The Blood Knights (http://www.wowwiki.com/Blood_knight) (at least the ones that consider Lady Liadrin their Matron) have joined A'dal and his forces. Additionally, when Kil'jaeden is defeated in the Sunwell Plateau (http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/03/18/sunwell-plateau-trailer/), Prophet Velen uses the remains of M'uru to reignite the Sunwell, but as a source of Light. We'll see if the Blood Elves remember that gesture of kindness in Wrath (http://www.wowinsider.com/category/wrath-of-the-lich-king/), eh?What does this mean for the Blood Knights of Silvermoon? Even with the whole alliance with A'dal, I assumed the ranks simply siphoned power from a more willing source as opposed to genuinely subscribing to the light's philosophies of transcendence. With the Sunwell now serving as a 'source of light', what does this mean for the typical Blood Knight? While there's something to be said for ambiguity, I'm curious if there's something more definitive to explain their current situation.

Raziel

10-19-2008, 11:09 AM

they are losing the Siphon Racial ability. Now the Sunwell's energy will invigorate them as an eternal source of magic. They will draw from it instead.

Lisbet

10-19-2008, 11:47 AM

^ Blizzard has written the end of the "Blood Elf" storyline to "The reason the Draenei have been running for thousands of years, why the orcs were corrupted, why everything else has happened, happened because Velan knew that the very day would come when his people would be needed to help the Blood Elves save themselves."

Velan and by proxy, the Na'ru, knew all along that it was going to happen, and also knew that nothing they were going to do was going to prevent any of what transpired. "Why didn't you just tell us that in the first place?!?!" Well, because if you were a blood elf, dieing from addiction and not able to see past it, would you want some upstart goatman (from space, lol)telling you that they were going to save you, that the LIGHT of all things, were going to save you?

Right, better to just let things run their course and help them once they can see beyond their arrogance. ;p

That being said, blood knights are now true paladins, thus the reason why both alliance and horde paladins share all the same seals. ;p

Leoren

10-19-2008, 12:30 PM

That being said, blood knights are now true paladins, thus the reason why both alliance and horde paladins share all the same seals. ;p

Aren't 'true paladins' defined more by their adherence to the teachings of the three virtues, thereby 'earning' the powers of the light as opposed to the Blood Knights who previously 'stole' the energy from M'uru who would eventually move on to now drawing it from this new sun well?

I mean, Alliance Paladins never needed their own sun well before any of this unless I missed something major. I just can't see it being as simple as saying there's no difference between the two now.

Yatokth

10-19-2008, 01:07 PM

Aren't 'true paladins' defined more by their adherence to the teachings of the three virtues, thereby 'earning' the powers of the light as opposed to the Blood Knights who previously 'stole' the energy from M'uru who would eventually move on to now drawing it from this new sun well?

I mean, Alliance Paladins never needed their own sun well before any of this unless I missed something major. I just can't see it being as simple as saying there's no difference between the two now.

They're still different.

Seal of Blood = Seal of the Martyr

Seal of Corruption = Seal of Vengeance

Belfadins do not follow the light's teachings, they simply are no longer addicted to energy from a Naaru, they simple gather it from the new sunwell - an everlasting source of blood knight energies, if you will.

Villayna

10-19-2008, 01:48 PM

My foggy non-lore person thought process goes something like:

There weren't any high-elf paladins before the original corruption of the sunwell, or if there were, they were taught by the humans and/or dwarves

When the sunwell was corrupted, ALL high elves were suddenly thrown into a state of withdrawal. In their scrambling around, they found syphoning from other creatures could kill the cravings temporarily.

Kael'thas went and snagged M'uru. Now, as long as they had their own source of light, might as well manipulate and shape it as true paladins did => blood knights.

Kael'thas shows his true colors, Belfs everywhere turn their heads and hearts to A'dal (*cough* gag me with a spoon *cough*), blood knights start pulling from the same source as their alliance counterparts.

Sunwell gets reignited. The non-blood knights in Quel'thalas have their sunwell back and no longer need to syphon critters and can go back to main-lining like they were before the original corruption. There is no change to blood knights with the re-ignition of the sunwell as their powers come from the naaru.

Fynne

10-19-2008, 02:01 PM

Because you nasty Horde are little better than animals anyway, I'll use an analogy you can understand. ;)

It's like food guarding. Just because all you filthy dogs don't have to fight each other off for a scarce amount of food (energy) anymore doesn't mean that having it plentiful in front of you is going to suddenly make you stop acting all nuts and craven and antisocial about it.

Aquizit

10-19-2008, 02:10 PM

As a warlock, having my font of energy become a big ole Bacon of Light makes me sad.

And I love bacon! DAMN YOU BLIZZARD! Teasing me like this!!

Malethia

10-19-2008, 02:48 PM

There weren't any high-elf paladins before the original corruption of the sunwell, or if there were, they were taught by the humans and/or dwarves.

There are still high elf paladins. They're rarer, but they've been around before the blood elves came into being. Dwarves are actually the newest race introduced to paladinhood.

As for the original question, Malethia has always held to a certain theory. Correct or not, this is what she believes:

The capture of M'uru was a ploy the entire time. As a race, the blood elves were starting to slip towards darkness, led by their Prince towards serving the Legion.

Just as fel energy corrupts the soul of those who use, so too can holy energy purify it. Because the blood elves were too proud and angry to accept the Light and avoid damnation, they had to be tricked into it. M'uru sacrificed himself to help the blood elves back away from the path they were walking.

Alliance paladins use the Virtues to access the Light. There was no time or ability to change blood elf culture to consider them, so M'uru let his power be used to access holy power directly.

Obviously, only a small number of blood elves are blood knights, and an even smaller number of them have realized what's really happening around them and embraced theri paladinhood. However, those select few can make a huge difference (Liadrin, for example) and from there you have a seed that can bring the blood elves back from the brink.

RavenReverend

10-19-2008, 05:16 PM

I still say the spacegoats should've quarantined the damn demon gods and died like a good batch of canon fodder for the best of the three worlds they've ruined. : P That's just my humble opinion.

As for the Bloodelves, most of them I think, that have survived and avoided becoming Wretched would need to be guided out of the parasitic way of thinking. Then again, I can imagine some Warlocks playing that they still suffer from the mana addiction, psychological or no. It'll be interesting to see the stance some take.

Tirralys

10-19-2008, 05:42 PM

Here's an idea -

Would a blood elf (blood knight for example) be able to find a powerful enough source of energy, or powerful enough will, to become independent from the parasitic ways of Naaru/Sunwell? In theory, could a Blood Knight be so separatist and hateful of his own kind and his own addictions, that he could find a different way to have energy from within?

((edit - though I hate to use the example, like how Vegeta got power from becoming Majin, but had such will he no longer needed him around? And didn't have to follow him to get the power? Get my drift?))

Taknar

10-19-2008, 05:59 PM

Food for thought:

If the Sunwell is reactive, why are all the buildings in Silvermoon still being powered by demons in large green gems. Those gems are still there in the beta, and I don't think they're going anywhere. Is the Sunwell just a source of power for Paladins then?

Islefr

10-19-2008, 07:01 PM

I think the gems are partly an insurance policy. I mean, if you knew that the big sparkly fountain of energy that you use could explode on you whenever you shove a corpse in there, you'd want to have a back up, right?

I'm curious as to whether or not they'll still be giving out the "Thirst Unending" quest.

Abric

10-19-2008, 08:43 PM

Keep in mind, on Twisting Nether none of this has transpired. We're all still leeches!

Malethia

10-19-2008, 09:02 PM

I'm curious as to whether or not they'll still be giving out the "Thirst Unending" quest.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Quest:Thirst_Unending

Blood elves no longer have the Mana Tap ability, so they were going to have to change the quest anyways.

Naheal

10-20-2008, 12:45 AM

They're still different.

Seal of Blood = Seal of the Martyr

Seal of Corruption = Seal of Vengeance

Belfadins do not follow the light's teachings, they simply are no longer addicted to energy from a Naaru, they simple gather it from the new sunwell - an everlasting source of blood knight energies, if you will.

There are exceptions to this. Such as the Belves who turned to the Aldor to "relearn" the light. We've, however, had discussions before on whether or not a vindicator is the same as a paladin.

Keraph

10-20-2008, 09:20 AM

Right. There's nothing physically or racially stopping a blood elf paladin from going "Hey, this crazy naaru sucking biz isn't/wasn't for me. I'm gonna open up my light-equivalent bible and get my worship on."

NotMaithanet

10-21-2008, 01:40 PM

Also if you read the instruction booklet all Blood Kngihts are now Paladins. They've embraced the Light. So all of this is null and void! No more manipulation, peace and love for all!

*See thread by Sanrin for ways to read the Wrath book*

Taknar

10-21-2008, 02:09 PM

Peace and love for all, but we still get to beat up the other side, right?

Keraph

10-21-2008, 02:27 PM

Necroxis

10-21-2008, 02:39 PM

Yatokth

10-21-2008, 02:42 PM

"They waged a fierce and desperate battle, and ultimately killed the Betrayer, wresting Outland from his iron grip."

No way, Illidan will be back. People get too big of a boner from him for Blizzard to let him be killed by some no-named "heroes," even if they were aided by Maiev.

When Warcraft 4 comes out, I'll be saying "wb Illidan"

P.S. If you couldn't tell, I'm not a huge fan of Illidan. Kel'Thuzad ftw!

If they ever do WC4, it'll probably just be noted as Maiev killing him.

And yeah Kel'Thuzad ftw.

Arthas is the coolest though. :P

Except maybe for Grom Hellscream. He one shot Mannoroth. Badass.

Taknar

10-21-2008, 02:52 PM

http://wotlkwiki.info/up2/pages/news/102008/page4.jpg

Last paragraph

C:\Program Files\World of Warcraft\Data\enUS\Documentation\Manual_WTK.pdf

You can check out the whole thing, it's already on your computer!

Necroxis

10-21-2008, 02:55 PM

If they ever do WC4, it'll probably just be noted as Maiev killing him.

And yeah Kel'Thuzad ftw.

Arthas is the coolest though. :P

Except maybe for Grom Hellscream. He one shot Mannoroth. Badass.

Arthas is pretty cool, I really hated the Lich King pre-WotLK information. Meaning that, before WotLK, The Lich King was thought of as "all powerful, unbeatable, unstoppable." But now with WotLK, they showed that he isn't all powerful (With the end Death Knight quest, and being wtfpwned by Putress at the wrathgate), I like the Lich King more now as a character.

Grom was a badass too

But I'm also particular to Lady Vashj, I like the whole "I'm a badass on my own, but I'll team up with you Kael so we can own everything". Frozen Throne Kael was pretty cool, but BC Kael is a douche.

Still...no one can beat the big KT

"Hello again children, I am KEL'THUZAD!"
"Your curiosity will be the death of you"

Plus he basically compares the Cult of the Damned to Scientology (lawlreligion!)

...amazing

Yatokth

10-21-2008, 03:30 PM

Arthas is pretty cool, I really hated the Lich King pre-WotLK information. Meaning that, before WotLK, The Lich King was thought of as "all powerful, unbeatable, unstoppable." But now with WotLK, they showed that he isn't all powerful (With the end Death Knight quest, and being wtfpwned by Putress at the wrathgate), I like the Lich King more now as a character.

Grom was a badass too

But I'm also particular to Lady Vashj, I like the whole "I'm a badass on my own, but I'll team up with you Kael so we can own everything". Frozen Throne Kael was pretty cool, but BC Kael is a douche.

Still...no one can beat the big KT

"Hello again children, I am KEL'THUZAD!"
"Your curiosity will be the death of you"

Plus he basically compares the Cult of the Damned to Scientology (lawlreligion!)

...amazing

Was never a fan of Vashj really, but TFT Kael was a badass.

I really like the Lich King storyline so far - he has flaws, but what I REALLY want to see is more information on Ner'zhul, not just Arthas - after all, the Lich King is a fusion of two people.

I liked Anu'barak too.

MY MIGHT CANNOT BE MATCHED.

Taknar

10-21-2008, 03:47 PM

I really like the Lich King storyline so far - he has flaws, but what I REALLY want to see is more information on Ner'zhul, not just Arthas - after all, the Lich King is a fusion of two people.

This is my prediction: We all kill Lich King in Arthas' body, and Ner'zhul's spirit escapes and goes into the salvaged body of Saurfang the Younger to fight another day.

Naheal

10-22-2008, 01:04 AM

Was never a fan of Vashj really, but TFT Kael was a badass.

TFT Kael is the reason why I love belfs so much.

Yatokth

10-22-2008, 01:07 AM

TFT Kael is the reason why I love belfs so much.

BECAUSE BELVES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE POWERFUL, VINDICTIVE, VENGEFUL BASTARDLY BADASSES.

NOT THESE HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY SEX FREAKS. GRRRRRRRRRRR.

/belfrantoff

Rai

10-30-2008, 12:18 PM

With the Sunwell now serving as a 'source of light', what does this mean for the typical Blood Knight? While there's something to be said for ambiguity, I'm curious if there's something more definitive to explain their current situation.I wouldn't assume like the author of that page that the source itself is holy. It does seem to fit minimally with Lady Liadrin’s experience after Velen’s actions towards the sunwell, but isn’t a given as meaning anything more then her feeling M'uru during her connection (his feelings/thoughts for example, the naaru live on through death as we know while they regenerate). The source of magic being holy simply doesn’t fit with the rest of the (unchanged) blood elf society, at least in my eyes. The arcane (and even fel) is still too deeply imbedded in their culture. Also are the comments made by Leoren and Taknar.

I still say the spacegoats should've quarantined the damn demon gods and died like a good batch of canon fodder for the best of the three worlds they've ruined. : P That's just my humble opinion. lol wut?

Keep in mind, on Twisting Nether none of this has transpired. We're all still leeches!I bet that gets confusing/fun. I would just RP that it did by release day personally (or I go with lore as it is revealed no matter the server).

Leoren

11-03-2008, 02:48 AM

An interesting read on the topic. (http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/11/02/all-the-worlds-a-stage-so-you-still-want-to-be-a-blood-elf/)

Taknar

11-03-2008, 04:39 AM

Lisbet

11-03-2008, 08:17 AM

Not so interesting a read as a good summery of what this thread has been talking about. Sadly, the author of the article is just as short of answers as we are.

The video was cool though. Didn't think Velen sounded like that. Also, M'uru is Jesus.

That fight is epic.. and the ending just as emotional as the video makes it out to be.

Blood Elves from our server have Hellscream's Marauders to thank for their salvation.. The Horde free'd their own, in our little universe, and they did it with the tag of the orc's greatest hero. Its epic beyond words, and a damn shame First Legion didn't get there first! *wink*

That being said, Velen says quite plainly that it'll take some time for the effect of M'uru's spark to be felt for all blood elves. Liadrain's reaction was because she was standing on top of the well when it happened.

That means eventually your characters will be cured of their lust for mana, but you don't have to do it RIGHT NOW. In fact, your blood elf can go all through wrath with a smirk on your face because 'you don't use no dirty used naru light'. When you decide your blood elf has felt the touch of the rebirthed sunwell, you can do so with a smirk on your face because people of your race, and people you now call ally and friend were the ones who did it.

Bastards ;p