Yatokth
10-16-2008, 11:32 AM
From a long post I made on the live forums (since i'm not in beta) about Warrior PvP as it stands:
No, I'm not here to talk about Retadins.
I'm here to talk about Arms Warrior PvP and what I think are its current issues.
Fact is, our burst is good. In fact, it's lethal. However, it is entirely RNG based – Both Taste for Blood and Sudden Death, the bulk of battle stance damage, are procs. This basically leaves Arms Warriors at the mercy of the RNG in the sky – a design philosophy which was to be avoided as I recall.
Some proc-based damage is great- it's fun, reactive, and not imbalanced. But most of it? Nyeh.
For this reason, we come to my suggestions:
1 - RNG Problem
Make Taste for Blood more reliable. There's a few ways you can do this.
"Taste for Blood – Gives the initial application and every third tick of your Rend ability a 33/66/100% chance to allow the use of your Overpower ability for 5 seconds."
This could be hard to program, I don't know what that's like. Note when I say initial application, I mean applying it when they don't have it on already, so no rend > overpower > rend > overpower etc… But if this is difficult to implement, use this less elegant solution:
"Taste for Blood – Every time your Rend ability deals damage, it has a 33/66/100% chance to allow the use of your Overpower ability for 5 seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 9 seconds."
"But Yat!" you ask, "Why not make Overpower it's own attack wth a 9 second cooldown?" – Well. For one that's a larger change in functionality, as opposed to the way my suggestions work, and for two, I think Blizz was trying to make Rend give you Overpowers as a mechanic. My solution does a few things:
1- Rend is still important
2- Overpower is now reliable and usable in every fight – guaranteed.
3- It keeps the "proc"-ish feel, since there's still a limit of 5 second window, a "use it or lose it" kind of thing. I feel this is fair since Overpower has a +50% crit chance. This also makes sense from a warrior perspective, when you get in a position to strike a powerful blow, you only have a small window in which to do it.
I think this could be a really fun, yet reliable mechanic, that doesn't change the original design too much to be considered too much change.
2 – Armor Piercing
RNG isn't our only issue. Our class has no way to get rid of the opponent's armor short of wasting 5 GCDs on sunders – in a long arena game, that isn't so bad – and I tend to throw out sunders on pallies/warriors in duels with excess rage, but it just isn't that effective, and even full stacked it's not THAT much damage.
I instead propose implementing one of the following two ways to alleviate this issue:
1 – Wrecking Crew. Change it from 10% damage to 25% armor ignore (5% per rank) this would reasonably increase the damage against high armor targets from ALL our abilities. However, a few concerns pop up. Enrage? Just make it not stack with Enrage anyway. Stacking with Mace spec becoming overpowered? Arguable. Stacking with Mace Spec and full sunders being overpowered? Probable. This fix, while cool (Enraging for armor ignore? Even the name makes sense!) is a tough problem to deal with.
2 – An equally cool solution. Have Imp MS make MS ignore 33/66/100% of armor. Now all that armor piercing is concentrated into one staple burst ability – but I propose ditching the 10% damage and -1 sec CD, so I don't think it'd be –too- bad. If it turns out that 100% piercing is overpowered, put it at, say, 20/40/60. This solution doesn't cause stacking problems, and I have to admit, I'd love to see some epicly phat MS crits.
I don't suggest both of these solutions at once, just one or the other – depending on which one Blizz thinks might work out better.
3 – Warriors problems I don't think are that bad
I'd like to take a minute to discuss some often brought up Warrior issues which I don't think are as pressing or as big an issue as the two above:
Pummel in Battle Stance
Bladestorm sucks
Our old way of Zerker PvP is better
Pummel in Battle Stance- Valid point. I'd love Pummel in Battle Stance – BUT I don't –need- it. I can stance dance for an interrupt pretty easily, and with TM and Endless Rage, it isn't that bad. However, the latency issue does crop up, don't wanna get stance lag and lose a clutch pummel. Pummel in Battle Stance would be dandy, but if it's not there, I'll live.
Bladestorm sucks – To but it bluntly… WRONG. Bladestorm isn't an IWIN button, but it's a great ability. Massive burst damage that truly shines when you have a partner rooting/stunning your target. However, if you are using it by yourself, keep in mind these things and you'll come to love Bladestorm:
1. Hamstring your target first. Always. Always always always. This way they don't LOLRUNAWAY- unless they're a druid, rogue, or a mage who hasn't popped blink. (None of which you should be using it on, except to scare them away)
2. Don't pop it WHILE snared or rooted. I know, it's supposed to break these (when's that getting in btw blizz?) but it doesn't as of yet so be smart about it.
3. Multiple targets? Sweeping Strikes. Add Recklessness if you have a healer and like lots of numbers.
4. ???
5. Profit.
Our old way of Zerker PvP is better – I disagree. I find Battle Stance, while currently not quite as reliable, to have as good or better burst, does NOT have a 10% damage taken debuff, and is more fun. Especially if the RNG is toned down, I think battle stance PvP will be the way to go. Until then, it's an arguable point.
In conclusion, feel free to add your comments and reasonable suggestions! I know, I know, Wall o' Text, but I'm not in beta and I wanted to let out my feedback in hopes that someone blue might read it. –shrug-
Thanks for reading!
TL;DR- NERF RET. TO THE GROUND BABY. jk.
Now, in light of recent Ret hotfixes, I realize my Armor Piercing suggestions may be a bit OP (I expected them to buff us, not nerf Ret) - but as long as it's like 20/40/60% or perhaps 15/30/45% I think it's still valid, as Paladins still have judgements and such.
Discuss, since you guys are smarter than most of the tards on live forums. I posted it there on the off chance a blue might read it.
No, I'm not here to talk about Retadins.
I'm here to talk about Arms Warrior PvP and what I think are its current issues.
Fact is, our burst is good. In fact, it's lethal. However, it is entirely RNG based – Both Taste for Blood and Sudden Death, the bulk of battle stance damage, are procs. This basically leaves Arms Warriors at the mercy of the RNG in the sky – a design philosophy which was to be avoided as I recall.
Some proc-based damage is great- it's fun, reactive, and not imbalanced. But most of it? Nyeh.
For this reason, we come to my suggestions:
1 - RNG Problem
Make Taste for Blood more reliable. There's a few ways you can do this.
"Taste for Blood – Gives the initial application and every third tick of your Rend ability a 33/66/100% chance to allow the use of your Overpower ability for 5 seconds."
This could be hard to program, I don't know what that's like. Note when I say initial application, I mean applying it when they don't have it on already, so no rend > overpower > rend > overpower etc… But if this is difficult to implement, use this less elegant solution:
"Taste for Blood – Every time your Rend ability deals damage, it has a 33/66/100% chance to allow the use of your Overpower ability for 5 seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 9 seconds."
"But Yat!" you ask, "Why not make Overpower it's own attack wth a 9 second cooldown?" – Well. For one that's a larger change in functionality, as opposed to the way my suggestions work, and for two, I think Blizz was trying to make Rend give you Overpowers as a mechanic. My solution does a few things:
1- Rend is still important
2- Overpower is now reliable and usable in every fight – guaranteed.
3- It keeps the "proc"-ish feel, since there's still a limit of 5 second window, a "use it or lose it" kind of thing. I feel this is fair since Overpower has a +50% crit chance. This also makes sense from a warrior perspective, when you get in a position to strike a powerful blow, you only have a small window in which to do it.
I think this could be a really fun, yet reliable mechanic, that doesn't change the original design too much to be considered too much change.
2 – Armor Piercing
RNG isn't our only issue. Our class has no way to get rid of the opponent's armor short of wasting 5 GCDs on sunders – in a long arena game, that isn't so bad – and I tend to throw out sunders on pallies/warriors in duels with excess rage, but it just isn't that effective, and even full stacked it's not THAT much damage.
I instead propose implementing one of the following two ways to alleviate this issue:
1 – Wrecking Crew. Change it from 10% damage to 25% armor ignore (5% per rank) this would reasonably increase the damage against high armor targets from ALL our abilities. However, a few concerns pop up. Enrage? Just make it not stack with Enrage anyway. Stacking with Mace spec becoming overpowered? Arguable. Stacking with Mace Spec and full sunders being overpowered? Probable. This fix, while cool (Enraging for armor ignore? Even the name makes sense!) is a tough problem to deal with.
2 – An equally cool solution. Have Imp MS make MS ignore 33/66/100% of armor. Now all that armor piercing is concentrated into one staple burst ability – but I propose ditching the 10% damage and -1 sec CD, so I don't think it'd be –too- bad. If it turns out that 100% piercing is overpowered, put it at, say, 20/40/60. This solution doesn't cause stacking problems, and I have to admit, I'd love to see some epicly phat MS crits.
I don't suggest both of these solutions at once, just one or the other – depending on which one Blizz thinks might work out better.
3 – Warriors problems I don't think are that bad
I'd like to take a minute to discuss some often brought up Warrior issues which I don't think are as pressing or as big an issue as the two above:
Pummel in Battle Stance
Bladestorm sucks
Our old way of Zerker PvP is better
Pummel in Battle Stance- Valid point. I'd love Pummel in Battle Stance – BUT I don't –need- it. I can stance dance for an interrupt pretty easily, and with TM and Endless Rage, it isn't that bad. However, the latency issue does crop up, don't wanna get stance lag and lose a clutch pummel. Pummel in Battle Stance would be dandy, but if it's not there, I'll live.
Bladestorm sucks – To but it bluntly… WRONG. Bladestorm isn't an IWIN button, but it's a great ability. Massive burst damage that truly shines when you have a partner rooting/stunning your target. However, if you are using it by yourself, keep in mind these things and you'll come to love Bladestorm:
1. Hamstring your target first. Always. Always always always. This way they don't LOLRUNAWAY- unless they're a druid, rogue, or a mage who hasn't popped blink. (None of which you should be using it on, except to scare them away)
2. Don't pop it WHILE snared or rooted. I know, it's supposed to break these (when's that getting in btw blizz?) but it doesn't as of yet so be smart about it.
3. Multiple targets? Sweeping Strikes. Add Recklessness if you have a healer and like lots of numbers.
4. ???
5. Profit.
Our old way of Zerker PvP is better – I disagree. I find Battle Stance, while currently not quite as reliable, to have as good or better burst, does NOT have a 10% damage taken debuff, and is more fun. Especially if the RNG is toned down, I think battle stance PvP will be the way to go. Until then, it's an arguable point.
In conclusion, feel free to add your comments and reasonable suggestions! I know, I know, Wall o' Text, but I'm not in beta and I wanted to let out my feedback in hopes that someone blue might read it. –shrug-
Thanks for reading!
TL;DR- NERF RET. TO THE GROUND BABY. jk.
Now, in light of recent Ret hotfixes, I realize my Armor Piercing suggestions may be a bit OP (I expected them to buff us, not nerf Ret) - but as long as it's like 20/40/60% or perhaps 15/30/45% I think it's still valid, as Paladins still have judgements and such.
Discuss, since you guys are smarter than most of the tards on live forums. I posted it there on the off chance a blue might read it.