Blood Elf Paladin? Draenei Shaman? Oh dear ...

[Vuudu]

Please tell me it is not too late to stop this train wreck of an idea from happening. Blizzard announced today that Blood Elves will be able to play Paladins, and Draenei can be Shamans.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrusade/townhall/classcombo.html

[Sinthe]

I don't know what I think of this.

I do kind of want to play a paladin though.

[Demortius]

aww crap, we posted at the same time... I'm sure my thread will get deleted since I'm not as popular as... Vuudu? Who's Vuudu? :P

Also, does this mean us Horde Warriors won't be important anymore? :cry:

[Zasu]

I figured they would do this. Awww, that's not as fun as each side having their own class, but at least it should somewhat control the X side has it easier because they have X class.

Racials, though. I suppose people will just complain more about racials.

[Demortius]

Check this out. It explains A LOT!

http://tn.yzeens.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1831

[Leyujin]

This is the only good thing Blood Elves bring to the Horde. Unfortunately I agree it's a complete cop out.

[Chavie]

i think it's a neat idea!

[Gavril]

The picture of the blood elf female in tier 2 looks awesome, though.

However, the explanation is way too farfetched; complete cop-out. Of course, now the blood elves don't have the same exact freaking class list as undead, but..

Are dreinei going to still be able to be paladins?

[Redburn]

Good question. Be interesting to find out.

[turen]

i hope to god that Blizz is messing with us...


well at least I'll get to roll a shammy on this server, finally.

[Cult_of_the_Damned]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=9165866&P=1

[Daala]

This actually works beautifully for a Sin'dorei I've been planning to create. I was going to make him a Mage, but a Paladin works so much better!

[Vilmah]

I'm sorry, but I think that this is complete and utter shite. Now the Alliance gets their filthy hands on our shamans. Great. Just. F'ing. Great. Not only do we get a "pretty" race, but awe get PALADINS! Oh! Yay! PALADINS!

I'm sorry for all of the sarcasm, but Nojinbu and I ranted about this for a very long time. We're VERY VERY angry. VERY angry. Not angry enough to leave the game, but the closest we've ever come. It just feels like Blizz wants to ruin our game play. From a non-lore perspective, why would they want both sides to be completely equal? Doesn't that make the challenge less interesting? From a lore perspective... why would Blood Elves be paladins??! I can KINDA understand the Draenai being Shamans, but Blood Elf paladins?? Come ON! If you're going to do that, switch the races. I'm already cheezed off that we get Blood Elves. They're turning my beloved Horde into a LOTR movie, where everyone can be Legolas. Great. Awesome.

Rant off.

[Shadowspeak]

Theres one motive here as to why they did this-

Blizzard cares more about balancing the factions and making the game more balanced (You know, more money) than they care about the lore.

[Sanrin]

Ultimately, this whole race/class switcheroo is quite possibly the gayest thing since gay came to gay town. And if you're offended by that you're along the same lines as I am with this whole bullship cop out that blizzard has pulled. Ignoring the fact completely that the lore is terrible (they didnt even try) their excuse for mixing up the faction only classes is even worse. From a raiding perspective the shaman can contribute nothing to the raid that a paladin cant do, better by a factor of a hundred.

They claim they want more shaman/paladin based interaction for their own endgame ideals, yet consider the fact that when both sides have access to pve ez mode, why bother inviting a semidecent class? The Shaman is the ideally balance pvp class, in my opinion, but that doesnt make it good for pve. Its totems (aside from tremor, nature resist, and maybe windfury) can all be outdone by paladin blessings. Its dps can be securely blasted away by much more stable rogues, warriors, mages, and warlocks. And its heals (while mana efficent overall) cannot equal up to that of any other healing class, including the paladin (whos heals can be potentially free the better equipment you get, and additionally cause less threat by design although a bit more mana intensive). Introducing paladins to the horde will, in my opinion, destory the use for more then maybe two shamans per raid...simply to take shaman loot before disenchanting.

Then to cover up their excuses for poor endgame decisions, they created the most lackluster storyline that could have ever been invented. Blood Elves haxxored a divine being, and omg there might be consequences. Draeni got bored, were chillin out in the woods. Now they can be shamans. And they come from space, so them being spiritual and shamanistic makes sense.

What the fuck. Their means of equalizing a playing field is beyond shitty, and they've done nothing to correct any balance issues they claim exist thisfar. They're going to take a class, possibly the best multclass in the game for pvp circumstance by design, and tear apart their usage by comparison.

Disappointing Blizzard, but then again...somehow expected.

[Sinthe]

We can all bitch about it as much as we want, and say how much we hate Blizz, or whatnot.

But when it comes down to it, are any of us going to quit over this?

...No.

[Teelia]

I'm honestly glad this is happening.

Most of the people I've heard bitch about this have been horde, for various reasons.

What it boils down to is this.

Endgame paladins are not as good at PVP as endgame shamans. Endgame shamans are not as good at PVE as endgame paladins.

Alot of horde are complaining, and most of the complaints I've heard have been about PVP balance.

I just think its finally about time the horde are on the receiving end of shamans. I, for one, also cannot wait to fight another paladin with mine, when so far it has only been possible in duels or in the arena.

As far as the lore goes....Well, sure things are messed up a bit, but I'm not going to quit the game over something like that. I'm going to deal with what blizzard throws at me from the perspective of my character, and have some fun with it.

Plus, I'm going to play a Blood Elf Pally on one of the other servers, just to see how that goes.

[Kaliera]

Endgame paladins are not as good at PVP as endgame shamans. Endgame shamans are not as good at PVE as endgame paladins.


Eh, personally, I'd rather have a well-played paladin on my PvP teams as well. Yes, shamans can DPS, but rogues, hunters, mages, etc. can do it better. If I wanted a DPS juggernaut, I'd pick up one of those classes. Paladins are pretty much irreplaceable. A 6k+ armored healer that can make himself immune to everything every few minutes, and can also bless others with physical immunity or snare immunity? Full "oh shit" heal every 40 minutes (with talents)? I'll take that over a windfury totem any day of the week.

Perhaps in a "group" where there is absolutely no communication a shaman would be better (who in their right mind has ever feared a DPSadin?), but I can't see many other situations where added DPS outdoes an insanely hard to take down healer. I, for one, can't wait for this expansion to come. More blessing of freedom/wisdom/kings, plzkthx.

[Leyujin]

Actually, I've barely seen any Horde complaining about this as far as PvP balance. Paladins are better than Shamans in group PvP and raiding. Nearly all Horde realize this. The majority of the complaints seem to be from people who like a unique flavor to each side, or are upset that the Holy Light has been polluted by being given to the Horde. Many of us Horde see the death of the Shaman on the horizon because of this change, but are ecstatic we are getting the best support class in the game. It's an awkward toss up, so I'm not sure overall whether I'm happy or not.

[Alucian]

Frankly, I'm tired of all of this. Every time Blizzard releases something new or something that's not exactly what people expected or might actually change the perception of the game, people freak out.

Fact of the matter was already addressed here. Even Vilmah touched on it. People are really angry. People say that they're going to omg quit, but I can guarantee a good 95% of those people will be in line at their local Best Buy come October with a shiny Burning Crusade box in their hands.

In the long run, this isn't a "crumbling" of lore. This is a change. Humanity inherently does not accept change well.

Here's the long and short of it. Horde are upset that Alliance get shaman, but are happy they get the blessing/healing powerhouses that the paladin can be. Alliance are happy that they get shaman but (some) are upset about the supposed "perversion" of lore. Horde are upset that they get saddled with a pretty race, but are upset about population imbalance. (On the latter, take heart in that all the Legolas names are already night elves.)

So we can sit and say that we're outraged by this travesty all we want to...but these changes are going to happen. Blizzard's already put the time and manpower into making this change, so they're not going to waste time and resources by undoing it so the small section of the population that is vocally against it can be happy...until the next change comes.

This topic was discussed on my PvE guild's board as well. One of the members said he was excited about what changes the shaman will probably undergo in the future...because since a lot of the shaman's abilities were based on making it a mirror for paladins, now that the mirror is no longer needed, they may go in and completely redo the shaman class. (I don't say that the paladins will get a rework cause...well...I just don't see it. o_o )

Now, I'm not trying to start a fight or anything. I just don't think it's very healthy or forward-thinking to sit and stew over changes that we likely will not have a significant impact for or against. Instead, I think it'd be more interesting and exciting to think ahead to the future and what these changes hold in store...the possibilities that they might open. C'mon, guys...now everyone gets to complain about bubblehearths and shockshockshockshockshockshocks! :D

[Vuudu]

I for one will NOT be standing at Best Buy with a Burning Crusade box in my hands.

I'll be leaving work early to swing by my UPS Store mailbox to get my pre-ordered copy!

Damn addiction ...

[Alucian]

I'll be heading to Gamestop to pick up my five copies.

Sad thing is...none of em are for eBay...they'll all be used. >_>

[Shadowspeak]

October Third....

I'm the first on the reservation list at gamestop.

I plan on being the first 70 on the server, too.

good luck with that...

[Gavril]

uhm. Where are you people getting your dates? Last I heard, pre-order date was set to ship "September" (being pushed back from October).

A second point; Blizzard doesn't have a good track record as far as releasing things ON TIME goes.

[Abric]

...

Stupid. When you have to make an excuse for something you do - it is what it is:

An excuse.

I'll keep playing Warcraft, but it is not because of it's compelling storyline or driven company dedication. I play it because there isn't anything else better to play at this moment - and I enjoy the people I play with.

I will say this - they need to *stop* lying to us. Just fucking say it:

"We did this because we want to, and we think it will bring in more people to play this game. Fuck originality and creative drive - we killed that ideal when we cancelled Starcraft: Ghost. If you want something different; look elsewhere. We are now tools, and you are our feed bag."

[Keraph]

While I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the reasoning behind these changes, I think what is more rediculous is the people getting so offended over it. Maybe it's because as of late I've been a bit less interested in WoW, due to other things in my life, so it doesn't seem as big a deal to me, but still, I've always been a huge lore addict, and just because this new lore is vastly different than what I expected, I'll still embrace it with all the fervor of the rest....once I figure some of it out ^^;;

The main problem here, is with all of the people who are getting defensive because they think that Blizzard is changing the lore to work with their marketability. To an extent: Duh. Blizzard is a corporate establishment that has a key focus on making money. They shouldn't have to admit that, because it's just obvious, and the fact that some people are expecting them to be something they are not, and do not claim to be, is what is causing the problem.

Now, that said, I do not think they have completely scrapped the lore. People like Metzen, who create these huge, detailed worlds (and any of you D&D DMs should feel for me on this one) they don't just trash what they created. Likely, Metzen doesn't feel like he's taking the lore in a bad direction for the sake of game balance, it's just that he's taking it in a different direction than we expected, and that bothers us, because we had an idea of what we thought was "The Warcraft Universe", and he is breaking from that idea, and going in directions we did not expect. It's their lore, not ours, and where they go with it is their decision, not ours.

I'm sure there's more to this anti-rant, but I'm kinda tired, and bored with it ^^ ADD ftw. So that's all for now ^^

[Danyxandra]

People just don't like change, still, it's a silly thing to threaten quitting with and giveing yourself coronary's over. Threatening to quit because they wouldn't fix the lag and disconnects, playability, that I agree with. Quitting over lore changes is pretty whiney.

[Grisch]

People just don't like change, still, it's a silly thing to threaten quitting with and giveing yourself coronary's over. Threatening to quit because they wouldn't fix the lag and disconnects, playability, that I agree with. Quitting over lore changes is pretty whiney.

There are much better reasons to quit the game.

I'll keep playing untill another top tier MMORPG is released that has what I enjoy. I hold no loyalty to Bliz after this.

My biggest issue is that this is just another thing that takes the game down the highway to cheap and kitch.

[Gavril]

...another point that must be considered:

I think by now Blizzard has PAST corporate greed. For god's sakes, how many current players are there? Five million? Six million? We could populate a country. ...granted, it probably wouldn't run very well, but still!

And they get 13-15 dollars, per person, each month. That is, a LOT of money, even for a large corporation, which Blizzard ISN'T. Yes they have costs, but I'm pretty damn sure that they aren't hurting for money.

We pay them in hopes that they are going to IMPROVE the game, and make it truly more enjoyable, and fresh, so that we stay. Of course, you can't please EVERYONE, but good GOD, I think a line has been crossed.

That being said, I really don't know where I stand on the issue... Dreinei shaman is just dumb, overall, but I hate the concept of dreinei in the first place. Blood elves "stealing the Light" is also dumb, as it sounds like it should just be an entirely different class altogether. Where the hell do Blood Elf priests obtain their powers of Light if the paladins had to STEAL it?

[Vilmah]

There are much better reasons to quit the game.

I'll keep playing untill another top tier MMORPG is released that has what I enjoy. I hold no loyalty to Bliz after this.

My biggest issue is that this is just another thing that takes the game down the highway to cheap and kitch.

Grisch, honestly, when Noj and I found out we wanted to call you. We know it would have been expensive, but we wanted to call you. Nojinbu prepared lines.

"Hey there. Are you sitting down? No? Sit down. No, I don't care what you're cooking. Sit down. Is your wife around? No? Good. Are there any electronics near you? No no, keep them away. Now. Take a deep breath.

...

The Alliance is getting shamans; we're getting Paladins--, GRISCH NO!!

NO! PLEASE, WHATEVER YOU DO, PUT IT DOWN!! PUT IT DOWN FOR GOD'S SAKE!!"

[Alucian]

Though, if anyone has a problem with draenei warlocks or shaman (myself included, tee hee), do one thing for me.

Don't go to the Swamp of Sorrows. Ever. :)

[Shadowspeak]

I find the main problem that Blizzard goes "oh hey, they evolve into this smart, non-ugly form" I wanted the normal Dreanai! The new ones seem to much like protoss is culture, appearance, and history.

[Gavril]

I find the main problem that Blizzard goes "oh hey, they evolve into this smart, non-ugly form" I wanted the normal Dreanai! The new ones seem to much like protoss is culture, appearance, and history.

See, if they had the original draenei, I would have no problem with this. Shamanism would fit perfectly fine, and there would need to be no sort of "space" creature. Then Blizzard would kind of be forced balance-wise to give Blood Elves paladins, and everything would be understandable and fine.

But NOOOO.

[Demortius]

I'll keep playing untill another top tier MMORPG is released that has what I enjoy. I hold no loyalty to Bliz after this.

"Yes, my hobitses! Leave Azeroth and comeses with me to Middles Earths..."

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f34/AlloyNES/onering.jpg (http://lotro.turbine.com/)

[Gavril]

Good thing about that is that if the developers screw with the Lore, chances are, they're going to be killed in their sleep.

[Belblue]

There's always Warhammer: Age of Reckoning (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/home/index.php) in the future.

[Grisch]

I'll keep playing untill another top tier MMORPG is released that has what I enjoy. I hold no loyalty to Bliz after this.

"Yes, my hobitses! Leave Azeroth and comeses with me to Middles Earths..."

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f34/AlloyNES/onering.jpg (http://lotro.turbine.com/)

Wow... I checked that out and damn...

1) They resisted the urge to make the iconic classes associated with every MMO.

2) Appears they at least respect the lore. They're really working with it and not going into cool shit factor. The nice thing, as someone else said, is that if they screw up on the lore they'll likely be killed in their beds.

Also it seems to attract a more mature player with a hangkering for roleplaying and deep meaningfull lore...

Hmm, time to dust off the olde Tolkien library.

[Aquizit]

I gotta brush up too actually, but that didn't stop me from applying for beta..

[Vilmah]

Races:

MAN, ELF, HOBBIT, DWARF

Oh! So it's like HALF of WoW! The half that I don't play!

No thanks.

[Tarlithion]

I liked Middle Earth Online when it was called "World of Warcraft."

Next.

[Abric]

Abric the Moderator:

Remember folks, try to keep a bit on topic in WoW Discussion. Also, be wary of the borderline "switch to this game," unless it is in the non-WoW Discussion.

And woe to you if you try to recruit outside of this game or realm. I will be on you like a fat kid on cake... or Kaliera on a steaming pile of Abric lovin'.

Abric the Gamer:

Somebody make a post about this. Man, I had a GREAT joke... but now I can't put it. Stupid oppressive moderator

AbricOOC
~Fights with himself; but then plays with himself afterwards. Bwhahaha!

[Tarlithion]

Pssst, hey, Abric:

Wanna come play, "Cover yourself in garbage and try to cross the freeway"?

It's all the rage in Singapore.

[Karkarov]

Uh oh warhammer online sounds like it might let me play a chaos warrior it is on now!

So far the race choices suck though. Where are wood elves? Bretonians? Ogres? Beastmen? Lizardmen? Skaven? DEMONS?!?!?!

[Demortius]

Abric the Moderator:

Remember folks, try to keep a bit on topic in WoW Discussion. Also, be wary of the borderline "switch to this game," unless it is in the non-WoW Discussion.

And woe to you if you try to recruit outside of this game or realm. I will be on you like a fat kid on cake... or Kaliera on a steaming pile of Abric lovin'.

Abric the Gamer:

Somebody make a post about this. Man, I had a GREAT joke... but now I can't put it. Stupid oppressive moderator

AbricOOC
~Fights with himself; but then plays with himself afterwards. Bwhahaha!

Dude, take a chill pill... 8O