IMPORTANT: OOC Definition of what the Nether Council is

[Brakogar]

OOC:

The Nether council is not a governing body, it is just a communications line between all the Horde RP guilds, nothing more. It works to maintain communications between all Horde RPers in TN despite their guild allignments (good or evil), style of RP or IC relations between other guilds.

You could say that the Nether council serves the same purpose as this very forums do only that it works in-game. This allows us RPers to communicate, form groups or even trade in a good, mature environment while been in character plus it also helps us spread the word of our RP events so that the people who enjoy such events can be aware of it and attend if they so wish.

The problem with the old council is that it had been largely neglected by the community in the past 3 or so weeks due to lack of overall interest and others missunderstanding the general purpose of it, but the option of using it safely remained.

However this is not to say that inter guild tensions should not exist, it would be borring if we are all "happy Horde friends". What I am saying is that if a Guild has issues with another then it should not involve the nether council at all since it is just a communications tool within the game.

Actual IC Example:

The Grim and the Frostwolf Brotherhood relations strained severely, almost to the point of open hostilities due to the attempts by one of the Brotherhood to rescue "a damsel in distress" from Grim custody.

The above shows that IC relations between The Grim and the Frostwolf brotherhood had been damaged by the actions of a brotherhood member foiling a Grim plan. This of course has IC consequences which could have been the basis for some interesting RP between both Guilds.

Unfortunately shortly after that incident, some people begun to place IC blame on the Nether council spilling the tension of those two guilds into the wider community and converting the Nether Council from an IC communicatios tool to a IC governing body bringing politics into it. As a result, it shattered, hurting the overall community in IC and OOC as the comunications line between the overall RP community was completly cut.

When the above incident happened and I saw the consequences of it spilling over to the wider community in different negative forms, I felt that I had to do something or the RP enjoyment of the Horde would forever be "tainted" with a blurring of IC and OOC wrecking the community as a whole. So when some of you saw me running around like a head less chicken trying to restablish relations between the RP Horde guilds and the Nether Council, it was not for the benefit of just my guild but the entire RP community as it is important to always have the lines of communications between all of us open, despite our IC relations with certain guilds.

So please, dont turn the Nether Council into an IC political body in your RP, simply treat it as a form of IC communication between other RP guilds.

Here is a loose comparison for better understanding

Twisting Nether Gazette is an alternative to the RP community from the official Realm forum.

The Nether council is an alternative to the Horde RP community from the the standard in-game chat channels.

So fellow RP community members please keep the nether council out of your IC politics as you may hurt the greater RP community by doing so. If you have an IC problem with another guild, then it is up to those guilds to RP it out, leave the council alone.

Perhaps our greatest failing was not to make the above clear in the first place.

Mortica or Zust, please sticky this.

[Brakogar]

I also encourage others to read the wise words of Maledictus on this link

http://tn.yzeens.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=130&start=45

[Brakogar]

((many thanks for sticking this thread Mortica or Zusteakai. It doesnt have to be stickied for ever, just long enough for people to read it. Perhaps a week or two.))

[Bini_The_Mute]

((Please don't take this the wrong way, Brakogar. I believe the aim of the council is more of an OOC thing.

If you do not want IC things to spill over into the Council, it might be best if the council was handled as a strictly OOC entity. The intent of the council is to increase communication between small and large guilds who roleplay. It is also there to facilitate hunting/instancing/raiding. Mixing evil guilds with good guilds is oil and water in a roleplaying setting, and it will likely never be friendly all the time in character so it shouldn't be expected to be that way at a Council meeting that is held "IC". Remove that aspect and you may get better results?

Perhaps there could still be a 'channel' for roleplay within the council or maybe eveyone could just use the /rp channel instead (the Rest Inn Peace roleplay channel) of the /thehorde channel for roleplay with council members (it's usually dead in there anyway).

There will always be IC friction between some people and guilds. There is simply too much history for things to be anything other than hostile with certain groups/people who are part of the Council. If you don't want the Council being dragged through the mud for the actions of people within it, remove that aspect. If not, it will likely happen again.

I don't know.. I hope that makes a little sense. I know what I am trying to say, but I may not be saying it coherently. I apologize for that.

[Malebrignon]

You said it fine, Bini. I was hoping someone else would say it.

[Brakogar]

I understand what you are trying to say Bini, but the tensions that the Nether Council experienced only begun when the forums were used to blame it.

Before all this happened, a typical Nether Council meeting would simply consist of people making announcements about their events or other happenings that they wished to share with the rest of the community. It also served to moderate the chat channels and make little adjustments such as encouraging people to keep the OOC in the ooc channel to a minimum(in my opinion, I believe that the introduction of the ooc channel killed the RP of the /thehorde channel as people begun to hog the ooc channel without proper moderation). After such matters were discussed we usualy went and raided a town (with mixt success) for fun.

People present at the meeting presented themselves in IC form to make their announcements for everyone to hear. Relations or problems with other RP guilds were never mentioned as far as I am aware. Of course some necesary OOC was said but everyone was mainly neutral in character as it was a means to share things with other RPers.

That was all, It was not a place to "debate" anything just to communicate and make announcements.

If some guilds wish to form a "political" alliance for whichever reason then they are free to do so as it would make the RP interesting as long as they dont boycott the Nether Council and dont bring their agendas into it. If there is an RP event that you do not wish to discuss with the rest of the community, then simply dont.

Another thing that I wanted to suggest was that Overall guild politics be left out of individuals joining neutral RP events been held by "opposite" guilds. If this individuals wish to attend such an event, they should be allowed as long as they are not there representing their guild and the event is of a neutral nature not hostile to any other guild in the horde(when it comes to alliance its ok). Having this allows us to have a variety of choice without much restriction.

For those who may believe that the above suggestion is only been made so that I can benefit my guild, they are wrong. The Frostwolf Brotherhood at this point in time is not "enemies" or "hostile" to any other fellow Horde guild. I just want to make the RP enjoyable and avaliable to everyone who wishes to participate. The IC community has begun to mirror real life social problems too much with "school Playground" like divisions and frankly that is zapping the fun out of it.

If someone has better alternatives, oppinions and/or simply wish to point out something, then please express them on this thread but keep in mind that this is neutral and OOC for the benefit of the entire community, not just your own guild's IC agedas.

The Nether Council will or will not continue depending on how this Saturday's meeting at 8pm goes. IF there is no turn out or most people present do not want to be a part of it (for IC or OOC reasons) then that will be the end of it and it will seize to exist in any shape or form but I am afraid that a mayor communications line between the Horde RP guilds will be severed.

[Bini_The_Mute]

((I understand what you are trying to accomplish, but I think you are failing to see that people in their characters will not 'tone down' for the sake of OOC communication and cooperation on instances/raids/etc.

The Nether Council was brought into a negative light based on the actions of people within the Council and those things were expressed in an IN CHARACTER way on the forums. Therefore, it is only logical that there would be some dissention within the Council from an IC perspective. People from the Council went against another member of the Council and expressed it so on the forums. You cannot expect both sides to simply drop it for the greater good - if so - there is no point to even roleplaying a certain way.

If you are saying that things that are said on the forums should not be taken into account in the game, I will tell you that you cannot say it is alright to "announce a meeting" but not alright to "disagree in character" on the boards. If it is done IN character, it has connotations in game - unless specifically stated otherwise.

I don't know.. this whole thing is becoming much more complicated than I think I want to get involved in.

I do wish you the best of luck with the Council, but I don't think I will make changes to who "Bini" is for a Council. ))

[Brakogar]

I understand and I believe that you are correct in much of what you say.

The purpose of the meeting is just to bring the community together once again and feel enjoyment in our RP like we used to not too long ago. Afterwards we can name the community anything we want, It will not have to be called Nether Council or have any name at all.

I just want for our community as a whole to succeed and no one to be or feel left out.

Also things that are said IC in the forum have equal wheight as things said in-game. I want to make that clear.

Perhaps it was unwise to continue calling it "The Nether Council", it may be too late now to rename it before the meeting, but the option to rename it will be on the table at the meeting. At the end of the meeting we may simply come out with an invicible RP form of communication between the Horde guilds depending on what people want and always open for RPers to use at their leasure.

[Brakogar]

I don't know.. this whole thing is becoming much more complicated than I think I want to get involved in.

Its not complicated at all. It only becomes complicated if you wish to make it so in your personal views or RP. It is just a communications line where people can make annoouncements to the community (even if it involves declaring hostilities to another guild). Tensions with other guilds are fine, even during a council meeting as long as somebody doesnt blame or boycott the council as a whole or turns it into a political body or blurs the IC and OOC.

Imagine been able to declare IC hostilities between each other "live" whithin the game while been friendly in ooc about how we can carry out such hostilities in an RP event instead of just a forum post that hardly involves any ingame action.

The fun and the possibilities would be endless in our RP if we are always in contact with each other and not simply isolated into our own "groups"

If for some IC/OOC reason you dont personaly like a guild then dont join them in raids/dungeons/etc. The new council will not be there to enforce anything (with the exception of some common sense courtesy rules). All I ask that you express your disatisfaction with such guilds without involving the nether council as a political force in your RP.

If you do not wish to get involved because you feel that it goes against the ways of your RP or IC character, then you dont have to. However even if you dont wish to get involved the doors will always be open for you as this "new council" is not intended for the benefit of a select few but the entire RP community.

[Longcat]

Just a little comment, but it just sounds pretty odd that some people can be considered enemies IC but still are friendly in OoC when some people stay in character the moment they log in.

So is a bit of OoC required in party and raid grouping?

[Brakogar]

Nether Council communications channel:

http://tn.yzeens.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=1236#1236

[Brakogar]

Just a little comment, but it just sounds pretty odd that some people can be considered enemies IC but still are friendly in OoC when some people stay in character the moment they log in.

So is a bit of OoC required in party and raid grouping?

Enemies IC, firendly or neutral ooc is of course something that is for the idividual RPer to sort out by themselves. Whatever their views on it, they still have a communications channel avaliable if they so wish to use it.

When it comes to the ooc. In just about every RP event planning some ooc is necesary behind the scenes.

However for dungeons and groups you can ask for help IC in the RP channel. That way you can grab other RPers into your group and you can have an RP/IC dungeon run or quest group. You also have the choice of who you wish to group with depending on your IC inclinations or RP seriousness.

[Nadea]

I look at it this way...

OOC, its important for all of the horde guilds to have contact with each other.

IC its important to know where each guild is, whether or not they get along.
Besides, in the real world, do we not work with people we dislike sometimes? Its kind of inevitable sometimes, to work with those that we can't stand. Therefore, I think its important that all of the horde knows whats going on with each other- whether or not a guild likes another or not. Hell, IC, Nadea can't stand anyone who isn't forsaken....but is willing to at least put up with them in order to further her education.

Its late at night, so Im not sure if Im making any sense...but to sum it up, I say the Nether Council is a good checkpoint for all members of the Horde. whether or not the guilds attending get along IC. It takes a lot of planning to do some of the things this server does, and being able to check in with everyone else somehow is a great idea.

Do I make sense? :3

[Zonar]

I had always thought of the Nether Council not as a governing body, but neither as a mere method of communication. It's purpose seems best served as a mediator between guilds, a neutral party that allows us to remember that our own guilds agendas aren't the only agendas to be followed.

However, if the Nether Council DID become a governing body, with each guild leader within it having a seat on the council, I think it would be the most amazing thing. Guilds could still do their own thing, because it wouldn't be treason to not agree with the rest of the council. It would give the RP community more exclusivity (with more and more non-RPers on the server getting to higher levels, the council would be a clear symbol of where other RPers can be found) compared to the rest of the server. It would allow non-RP guilds to get a taste of RP by having their guild leader go, and report back. If they liked it, then they would get more into it.

Basically, I'm saying that the Nether Council as IC communication alone is a good idea. We can do far more however, and I believe that it would be rewarding to do so.

[Malebrignon]

I had always thought of the Nether Council not as a governing body, but neither as a mere method of communication. It's purpose seems best served as a mediator between guilds, a neutral party that allows us to remember that our own guilds agendas aren't the only agendas to be followed.

However, if the Nether Council DID become a governing body, with each guild leader within it having a seat on the council, I think it would be the most amazing thing. Guilds could still do their own thing, because it wouldn't be treason to not agree with the rest of the council. It would give the RP community more exclusivity (with more and more non-RPers on the server getting to higher levels, the council would be a clear symbol of where other RPers can be found) compared to the rest of the server. It would allow non-RP guilds to get a taste of RP by having their guild leader go, and report back. If they liked it, then they would get more into it.

Basically, I'm saying that the Nether Council as IC communication alone is a good idea. We can do far more however, and I believe that it would be rewarding to do so.

I tried this. More than once. Nobody wanted to play. I got told I wasn't Rp'ing the right way. Hmpf.