About the whole Night Elf/Troll debate...

[Ylisaxa]

I am working on a story for my two night elf sisters and could use a little lore help. I remember reading something once in passing that there was a debate that Night Elves where in some way related to or descended from trolls. Is there any truth to this? Can anyone point me to resources? Thanks

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I just found this on Wiki, but the source is unreferenced:

"Blizzard's history of Azeroth does not clearly state that Night Elves descended from trolls, but some evidence does suggest the possibility. It is rumored that Dark Trolls are the race that Night Elves descended from, as Blizzard does state that Night Elves descended from "a primitive tribe of nocturnal humanoids", which accurately describes Dark Trolls. It is also possible that all other races of trolls, along with night elves, descended from Dark Trolls."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurubashi_Empire

[Vilmah]

Yup yup, Blizz will not say whether or not it's true, but personally I'm going to assume that it is, and so do most of the people Horde-side.

Most NE's however, would dissagree.

[Lupen]

OOC:

All, if not most NE's and Trolls will say there is no connection, Blizzard will not confirm it, and WoWiki is going off speculation.

Me, personally? Yes, I think they're directly related. Look at history... WAAAY before the well of eternity and the opening of the dark portal, malstrom, 1000 year vigil... Etc. There were trolls all over Azeroth. Stranglethorn, Dun Morogh (sp?), Northrend, and other small pockets scattered about.

Guess what? Few thousand years later Elfs just came out of no where (High Elves, mind you. Remember, all of the "Elves" come from the single race). Again, lore does not confirm or deny it, but history could allow for a... Defective Gene, that produced such an elf.

Physical Status: Trolls and Elves look rather similar. Trolls are lanky, but tall if staning erect. Long ears, and long hair naturally. Some more muscular than others. Elfs: Tall, lanky, mostly toned, and long ears and long hair... Oh, not to mention skin... Troll (Jungle and Arctic, not Sand Trolls) and Night Elf skin tones are quite similar in colouration.

Final Judgement: Yes.

[Barke]

Personally. I believe night elves are related to trolls. They are very similar. Just stand a troll up straight, file down the tusks, and give him all the right number of fingers and toes.

Same goes for a Night elf. Hunch them over, give them tusks, tie their fingers and toes together.

Seems to me like there is a resemblance at least.

[Upae]

Yes, the relation ship is alluded to in various different places. Although Lupen I think it was the Night Elf (Kaldorei) that was the first, the High Elves came after. I remember seeing an evolutionary tree once.

The legend goes, some dark trolls fell into the Well of Eternity, thus transforming into Night Elves.

I am going with this, as it is pivotal to my storyline,, Lupa was changed into a Night Elf to hide her from the troll spirits, using the same magicks that originally transformed the Dark Trolls. Well, as close as was possible.

Bethekk and Shirvalla, two benevolent troll spirits, made contact with Elune in the same manner as was done in ancient times, with a raven messenger. A deal was struck and Remulos, Son of Cenarius and Keeper of Moonglade helped Bethekk with the transformation and ressurection.

But it was flawed. They could only approximate what the Well of Eternity was able to do. Also Lupa wasn't a Dark Troll, she was a Forest/Jungle troll mix.

True Kaldorei will notice something odd about Upae. For one she is taller than most female Night Elves, and her features are more rugged. Not ugly per se, but certainly harder edged than other NE women. Her hands and feet are also rather large, almost mannish.. (hehe she has Man hands..)


EDIT: Here is that tree..

http://www.wowwiki.com/images/thumb/f/f8/Trollstammbaum.jpg/600px-Trollstammbaum.jpg

[Fhenrir]

Here's the official word on it.

http://worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/troll/trollsandnightelves.html

I'd try not to put any "for sure" things into a story that involves this, because (although I think NE came from trolls personally) there's no solid evidence.

[Vilmah]

Dire Trolls are sexy.

[Shadowspeak]

Elves have fangs that are de-evolved tusks. Fhenrir made a post about it a while back.

[Demortius]

Elves have fangs that are de-evolved tusks. Fhenrir made a post about it a while back.

That's true. When I do a voice emote with Vhael, if you zoom in, you can see the fangs!

[Cedes]

well putting it in a LOTR perspective.....

if yoru remember, or if i remember correctly O.o

*cough* ANYWAYS!!!...

the dead remains of elves were brought back to life out of the earth as trolls right?

So maybe trolls and Elfves are or cousin race. Like gnomes and dwarves.

Maybe there were some dirty voodoo canabale eatting elves that mutated a bit and had offspring. Through time they must of became a seperate race...who knows.

[Vilmah]

Except Trolls existed waaaay before elves.

[Fhenrir]

well putting it in a LOTR perspective.....
Ah, the problem being this this isn't LOTR. For some reason that's a fairly common misconception, but the two worlds have entirely different lore. :wink:


Elves have fangs that are de-evolved tusks. Fhenrir made a post about it a while back.
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/933/elffangslo4.jpg

Interestingly enough, I've only noticed this trait on the males. Perhaps the female elves evolved out of these tusks because they were smaller to begin with and just disappeared into a line of regular teeth.

Or maybe it has something to do with all the other stuff they needed to make room for in their mouths... *ponders*

[Vilmah]

Or maybe it has something to do with all the other stuff they needed to make room for in their mouths... *ponders*

HAHAHAH!!!! BUUURN!

[EnheilRas]

I'll get right on this later tomorrow..

[Ylisaxa]

Maybe the female of the species is more evoled than the male =O

[Noury]

Maybe the female of the species is more evoled than the male =O

The proof is in the dance. Its there for all to see.. unfortunately.. :roll:

[Lelenia]

Female night elves show no fangs because...well...while the males were in hibernation for a few hundred years, the females became quite adept at orthadontics.

Males, waking from their slumber, saw the new practice as heracy (sp), and promptly got rid of all evidence.

[EnheilRas]

http://web.mit.edu/kayla/Public/Backgrounds/Warcraft%20III%20-%20Night%20Elf%20Box%20Cover.JPG

Those look like fangs to me.. bwuahahaha

To think Elves can ever look as cool as trolls is preposterous:

http://pe.elmstreet-online.com/shop1/catalog/images/WOW1tr.jpg

[Fallacy]

It's hard to say, seeing as normal teeth in that position are pointy anyway.

[EnheilRas]

Fangs or Bicuspids?

I actually had a good post here, but this damn PC decided to shut down.

Wait until liberty tomorrow eh?

[Shadowspeak]

yes, but her teeth are slightly curved, and sharp. fangs.

[EnheilRas]

How much gauge do you think that troll priest's earring is eh?

18? 20?

[EnheilRas]

Okay.

What we know is that the general history goes that the Kaldorei civilization rose around 15,000 years ago. Before that, there were only three species known to habitat civilized areas. You had the Two Troll Empires (Amani and Gurubashi) and the Troll Kingdom of Gundrak, the Shu'Halo, and the Aqir. At This time, all of Azeroth was in a single Pangaea-like continent, called Kalimdor, shaped like a large doughnut. That doughnut hole was the Well of Eternity, the big baking oven of the Titans that spawned the Azi Aqir.

For Millenia, the Two Troll Empires had fought the Aqir for dominance of the Planet. They had, for all intents and purposes, beaten the insectisoids, who had been on a crusade to wipe out all humanoid life on a planet, and destroyed their Empire, pushing the last remnents of the Aqir to two far-off points, Ahn'Qiraj and Ahn'Nerub; The Amani watched and guarded Ahn'Qiraj while the Drakkari stood vigil over Ahn'Nerub.

In this, the world enjoyed relative peace. Though not too friendly with each other, the Twin Empires co-existed without any corruption. However, what is known is that one of two things occured: A never-before-seen band of humanoid creatures spawned from the energies of the Well of Eternity, or a Band of Trolls (Most likely from the Gurubashi, as they inhabited those regions) inhabited the shores around the well, and it's chaotic energies infused them with arcane energy and mutated them. Whatever the case, the Night Elf people rose to build a new civilization.

Whatever the cause, the Kaldorei's immediate action was to topple the two Empires and reign over the world. This bid for supremacy was aided by their connection to the arcane chaos wielded unto them by the Well of Eternity, fused with the Twisted Nether. As such, the Elves used this magic carelessly and foolishly, which drew attention from the Burning Legion on their crusade to consume all the magic in the Nether.

Without any kind of defense against the Magic (It bypassed their hyper-regenerative powers that History told of the Legendary Trolls had, countless times stronger than the type they have now; The Aqir knew no magic, and thus their physical attacks were countered by the trolls' innate regeneration), the Trolls quickly lost wars against the rising Kaldorei force. The Trolls fell back into the collapse of their own civilization.

The Trolls know that the Kaldorei are their kin. Besides the books of history (Or the fact that the Naga are snake people and the most ancient of Troll Loa are symbolized by the Snakes; it's an odd connection), seem to point that there is more than a single shared heritage. The Kaldorei religion seems to point towards the worship of giant creatures that stalked the wilderness, rather than the Mystic Spirit World that the Troll people have a connection to.

This connection of the Troll and Kaldorei have the Night Elves up in flame. Arch-Druid Staghelm has made an official crusade to genocidally wipe out all troll races in order to prove the final supremacy over their civilization and culture to prove that the Night Elves not only have any connection to them, but are just that much better. The Troll Jins have taken this very personally, and many have declared a counter-crusade, in order to "discipline their children"


Bethekk and Shirvalla, two benevolent troll spirits, made contact with Elune in the same manner as was done in ancient times, with a raven messenger.

This Raven has a name: Aviana (http://www.wowwiki.com/Aviana), The Queen of Harpies and Matron of the Druids of the Talon.