RPing style, or: a disclaimer for RPing with Fynne!

[Fynne]

A few subtle remarks have caught my eye recently and I thought I should address some of them by explaining the way that I RP. Now, I'm not the be-all end-all of how-to RP; I don't have a bulleted list of do's and don'ts and tips anywhere, and I'm certainly not in any sort of powerful, moderator, or majority position to really influence anyone else's style. That's sort of the point, too, since hopefully everyone will understand that the intent of this thread isn't to debate what is right or wrong in accepted RPing styles, but rather to explain how I RP.

One of the things that I do that I realize is occasionally controversial is to break what is otherwise a golden rule of RPing: I take OOC information and use it ICly. Now, before everyone gets up in arms about this admission, let me explain how I do this, and why I think that, in this case, it's acceptable.

I don't take OOC information that is blatantly labeled, or through common sense (that is to say: my common sense, which admittedly isn't always dead on) is considered sacredly OOC. I don't, for example, use information that Mortica's dog just died and she made a post in the OOC forum explaining that she'll be gone for a few days for some sort of ridiculous dog funeral to come up with an in-character response to Mortica, the character's, being absent for a week grieving over her dead dog to ridicule her. Journals, OOC remarks pertaining to the 'goal' of a plot, Character Bios, and so forth are equally sacred. Leoren remarking to me on vent that The Raven Cross was really coming along, and that they'd decided on a base of operations that really fit their feel of things, and if I could politely not make a warzone out of it, is a similar (and infinitely more truthful than my faux-Mortica version) example.

What I do, however, is take general attitudes of people, sometimes through OOC conversations, to improve an interaction. Improve, actually, sounds way too egotistical. Flavor, maybe, is better. For one example, I will make reference to movies, television shows, popular culture, or so forth for material for Fynne's fairy tales. For example, when learning to fight blindfolded, I had Fynne make a few in-character references to "that one part in a fairy tale where that kid from Toshley Station learned to deflect firebolts after the old wizard blinded him" which was a reference to Star Wars where Luke is practicing with the blast helmet down.

More recently, Fynne sent a letter to Skafloc mentioning that he had caught rumors of Evanthe's disappearance and offered to aid him. No one involved in that storyline had contacted me at all, and the only way I even knew it was happening was because I had OOCly read it on the TNG. This isn't to say that I jumped in and "solved the story", or even impacted it in any meaningful way, because to me, that would be breaking the "sacred" rule. The involvement is, however, strongly influenced by OOC knowledge.

First Legion is generally not a RPing environment, and the guild officers are certainly not RPers or "in character" in any meaningful fashion, but that doesn't stop me from making reference to them and their personalities in IC ways. I've made reference to Cid's militant, no-nonsense boss briefing style, or Kaldore (who rarely RPs, at least not with me) by his "forum personality" - as the boistrous braggart warrior. Similarly, if I have a good feel for a person OOCly, I will often make a few references to them in an IC manner. If I ever cross the line, or mention something that that person's character really would absolutely NOT do, and it's pointed out to me, I'm not above mulliganning the whole thing. Like beating Leoren up in a BG while his "Trial" storyline was still going. ;) Let's face it, it's just not going to happen in RP until I'm some sort of PvP god (which I'm not, and probably won't be).

One point of interest to me, which occurred to me after speaking with Abric about Grim raiding on Teamspeak was how part of the fun in raiding in-character is the challenge of taking a boss strategy and finding a way to explain what is going to happen, insofar as abilities, positions, and what to do about them, so that it that fits in-character. This seems to me to be a very high regarded talent in roleplaying, in that a person who manages it is looked upon highly as having much skill to be able to accomplish it.

The interesting part to me is that to have a full gameplan as for a boss's abilities and a strategy for defeating them gathered entirely from a website or strategy guide is acceptable, encouraged, and cheered but using OOC information ICly is usually extremely taboo.

To clarify, I'm absolutely not saying that raiding in-character in this manner is something to be vilified; I am 100% in awe of it and respect it as a remarkable way of RPing. What I'm saying is that using OOC information ICly, so long as it's used responsibly, isn't a bad idea. Or, at the very least, it's my bad idea.

[Bir]

I usually just walk around Silvermoon and people tell me things IC. Then again though, I'm Bir. For some reason everyone tells me everything and expects I know everything too even though I don't always know it all. XD

You can't exactly do that and understand what they're saying due to in game mechanics. But what you're saying is fair to me, I mean a person going missing is generally a big thing even in real life, like if it's a friend of a friend you'd definitely find out about it.

[Skafloc]

To be fair, Skafloc posted missing person notices and fliers all over the place, plastered with Evanthe's picture. It would be entirely conceivable that Fynne caught wind of these or even saw one. That is why SKaf wasn't surprised Fynne knew.

Surprised he would offer to help... well thats another issue entirely. ;)

[Fynne]

Well I did stack the examples in my favor, Skafloc. I tried not to use any that were more controversial, although I've done some in the past.

I don't know if I stressed it enough, but if I do ever cross anyone's OOC/IC interaction line (in either direction: using IC information OOCly or pissing someone off OOCly for something I did ICly) please let me know. I have more freakout obsessed-with-people-not-being-mad-at-me issues than I do attachment to things Fynne's done, and I'd rather make peace and be on folks' good side than cling true to a story arc I've done.

Can you tell I'm a fan of do-overs?

[Sabachthan]

I thought this was going to read something like, "When I just stabbed your level 40 alt to death, suddenly, without any advanced warning -- well I enjoyed that RP interaction!"

I don't disagree with your premise.

[Fynne]

Mostly when I do stuff like that, I don't really even consider the alt to be a real person. I mean, they're not, are they? They're not really people until they're 70 if they're not someone's main... it's like killing a redshirt, and if I decide to make in-character reference to it, that's generally how I'd phrase it.

"So I killed two or three Grim today..." and leave them nameless.

You know, or Ghants, or Cross, or whatever. It could be argued that it's how I skirt around the issue of "not killing player characters without their express permission" - by turning them into a not-their-character.

[Qabian]

If I ever cross the line, or mention something that that person's character really would absolutely NOT do, and it's pointed out to me, I'm not above mulliganning the whole thing.

This, I think, is what makes your argument valid and valuable. You are willing to compromise, should the person you may possibly offend, well, take offense.

The more research I do into WoW lore and stuff, the more I have to try and find ways to keep knowledge obtained OOCly logical IC. That's where the crux is, I think. Technically, Q's been living in that world for decades. He should logically know a hell of a lot of stuff I don't, or don't yet. If there are IC explanations for coming across OOC information, it doesn't seem like a stretch for me to do such a thing. Logic being the key.

For raid fights, there are other soldiers making the attempts. You gather in taverns and hear from them and learn from them, as well as share your own experiences. You can build up the skills and strategies necessary IC in almost the same way you do OOC. Sharing. Although technically our characters don't have access to the internet, who knows what they're doing while we're logged out. Heh.

And it's not so different from giving Cid and Kaldore IC personas based on their OOC personalities? If Cid and Kaldore don't mind that, I can't see how it would ever be a problem.

Abric's IC personality isn't actually all that much like his OOC one, but I'm sure they influence each other. Abric IC is quieter and much more serious.

For things like the Silvermoon rumors on these boards, that is information obtained in an OOC manner which has been essentially sanctioned for IC use if you think your character listens to those kinds of marketplace whisperings, I think that is hella awesome. But technically, it's OOC gone IC? The forum becomes the source of whisperings or the bulletin boards with the posters. OOC becomes IC.

But take for example Q's journal. It is cryptic as hell mostly for my benefit and thus generally prevents such misunderstandings (and makes it very much viable for mulligans *cough*) because no one really knows what I'm talking about, but I have clearly stated that it exists as an OOC display of IC interior monologues. There's no real way anyone short of a mind reader character (and don't get me started on that) could ever access it. There's no hard copy of the journal to steal or hide in the shadows and read over his shoulder. Nothing that exists only in the journal and in no way externally should ever be used by other characters in game.

However, if he references an event that it was possible could have been witnessed by others, then using that OOC information becomes possible to explain with IC logic. Possible. Not necessarily a good idea, but possible.

And that's when Fynne would send me a PM and say, "I see you mentioned in your journal about pushing Nym off a cliff. Was that what happened when I found Q in Redridge and ripped his spine out through his chest? If so, I'd like to work it into this story I'm writing." And Q would respond with, "WTF, I hate you so much, you jackass. Sure, go ahead." Information obtained OOCly, but not necessarily bad.

[LorFedorovic]

Well... one thing I have been doing lately is using the gossip thread a bit... though I'm not truly influential enough to (nor would I really want to) tamper with other peoples stories. Basically this is because one of my characters is a gossip collector. (Love to whoever created that thread btw. >_>) I really don't use much else other than what would be common knowledge (like a position someone once held or prices on people heads and such)... but that can get very iffy as well. *shrugs*

Basically, while people try to keep OOC and IC knowledge separate it can be a fuzzy line sometimes. It's good that if someone feels you're doing an injustice to their characters persona that you're willing to nix things a bit (that makes any RPing so much more fun)... but all you can really do is hope they don't get too mad about it and freak out over the slightly unavoidable "metagaming." Hell, I'm sure I'm guilty. XD

I think it makes for good story creation sometimes myself though, as long as you're willing to take a step or two back if you start nickin' people's toes.

The killing players though... I never understood the problem with that really. I mean, granted it's a bit rude if they're trying to RP, but PVP is what the game AND the story are all about. There's a war going on. *shrugs* I just figure if killin' the other side is what you feel your character would do, then go ahead and do it (or attempt to do so XD). Yes, that goes for if any of my characters are seen as well. Yeah, I'll probably get a little peeved if you camp my arse (as it goes a bit beyond RPing things out if you camp for too long) but that's the game. I guess people have different ideas about how it works, and I hope I never make anyone too pissed by PVP (keep in mind I have no 70 yet due to laziness and stupidly trying to level them all at the same pace for some reason) but if my character would kill you (or attempt to kill you and probably get killed in the process because I'm not'a too god wit da PVP truthfully)... I'm going to feel obligated to do so. No offense. >_>;;; Really.

I'm so a red shirt. XD

[Xiphus]

I include pop culture references into my rp every once in a while. I mean, WoW is full of it. Does not hurt to subtlely add more.

[Tillna]

As a rogue, Knowing things ICLY is easy.

"How....how did you know all..all that about me?"

"The shadows swirl and protect me from the eyes in the bucket untop of the shoulders. I was listening for sources of amusement."

I love being invisable

[Xiphus]

As a rogue, Knowing things ICLY is easy.

"How....how did you know all..all that about me?"

"The shadows swirl and protect me from the eyes in the bucket untop of the shoulders. I was listening for sources of amusement."

I love being invisable

Well, espionage is part of being a rogue, so that kind of thing should make sense for us.

[Fynne]

Not all rogues are ninjas (subtlety) - some of us are pirates (combat). ;)

[Xiphus]

Well, in my mind:

Subtlety: Scout/Spy/Outrunner/Thief/Ninja (maybe)/Conmen
Combat: Brawlers/Swashbucklers/Raiders/Bandits/Highwaymen/Footpad
Assassination: Assassins/Murderers/Serial Killers/Hitmen

[Swerto]

I include pop culture references into my rp every once in a while. I mean, WoW is full of it. Does not hurt to subtlely add more.


I made a star wars reference with Securo....


I pulled out the expansion name with Swerto....


"Are you ready for the Wrath of the Lich King?"

[Irithel]

*ninja-pirate, yo*

[Skafloc]

Not all rogues are ninjas (subtlety) - some of us are pirates (combat). ;)

What ever happened to the common street thug? (assasination?)

[Malethia]

Meh. A rogue is a rogue is a rogue. I either see them coming a mile away and watch them die from hitting me (Saphiara), or they stab me like twice and I die (Malethia).

I will freely admit to using OOC knowledge IC. I mostly do it with Malethia, because she's supposed to have insight into the heart and relationships; that's what I take from the boards. Malethia also has knowledge of things Saphiara knows, but not the other way around.

If I ever take something from OOC that you don't want me using, all you have to do is tell me and I'll go all DC retcon on it.

[RavenReverend]

Dude >.> If I'm feeling totally not Feralmoon or if I -really -really -really- want to say something I usually emote /is totally ooc. then do it :D Like teabagging Vyndette the other day by the fountain in Silvermoon. Feral's not about to walk up to some random bloodelf, grab her by the hair and force her to choke on an invisible epeen. Nor is she about to walk over and sit on someones lap :D That's generally me being an asshat. Along with making really mean comments about trampy huss muffins IC.

I try not to metagame. -.o Repeat the word -try-. Sometimes it's actually very difficult, like with your whole dilemma of getting the RPness stroked by using the info about Evanthe missing. I think that's totally explainable and cool. When worse comes to worse, I sometimes just pick something random and stupid to pick up RP. Someone comes to help my orc hunter? She's all like "...You took my kill. Ass."

What's the real border here?

[Abric]

I've never been a fan of the term "RP style." It's always been used to explain things wrong, or give credit to strange things ... or honestly, be the excuse for inexperience. Me using {{ }} for my OOC instead of the standard (()) is a style. Using :: :: to denote action or writing as a novella ... all different styles. Though, this isn't much full scale practice than my own personal opinion, and what better place to put your opinion than on *another* persons thread? I am what I hate, what can I say.

To your (Fynne) super metagaming piracy? I see no problem with it, and I'm not sure I see where people may have a problem with it. Maybe there is a certain situation that spurred this post, and if thats the case... no real reason to list it, since that makes the playing field more personal.

It's near impossible to keep truly in character. Very few people have the 'experience' to do it, to fully immerse themselves so much into the world of their role that they breath it. Most that do, don't last long ... because they are labeled as elitist, assholes, or unapproachable. Why? Well, a lot of reasons; but one of the biggest is, it isn't always conducive to an enjoyable MMO environment. The 'hardcore' roleplayer doesn't care if your kids have to be put to bed, or that you are sick and not in the mood.

... I had a point somewhere in my text.

Oh, yeah. Since we aren't on 24/7, keeping every.single.thing in character, we have to drive the story as players. We do this by forums, journals, posts, and just basic directing. While we do have to keep in mind we are in a game of conflict (against other players,) some basic rules being followed usually keep things acceptable.

And, if people get offended and/or not fly with you using the information they are able to gather - then, well, sometimes you have to give a little to get a little. Nobody comes out on top all the time.

Unless you are me. It pays to be bald and beautiful.

[Xiphus]

What ever happened to the common street thug? (assasination?)

Ain't that more like combat with a dash of assassination?

And speaking of which, my character has ways of knowing things, so don't be surprised if he mentioned details you thought you had kept secrets. I mean, come on, he is a bloody Deathstalker. Deathstalkers are like the Forsaken's version of CIA.

But he doesn't know everything. I mean, Intelligence Agencies don't send their agents to snoop into people's private life.

[Tillna]

In soviet Russia....

Any way, yeah, some mystics, priests, ETC may be allowed privvy information due to class abilities...but for the most part my characters do not know anything that they have not heard.

But they do know where you are, more or less

[Ofanim]

You would be surprised what you would know if you stop and listen to the trees and stones. Then again most people choose not to.

Bears are OP at RP

[opalexian]

You would be surprised what you would know if you stop and listen to the trees and stones. Then again most people choose not to.

Bears are OP at RP

OMG *rubs little avatar bear belly* :O


Woo, I'm done with school so I can work on RPing this summer and stop being such a troll! >_> *takes notes*

[Ofanim]

OMG *rubs little avatar bear belly* :O


does http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NatmfUQwqo&feature=related in some kind of emote form

[Rand_Shea]

If you use OOC information ICly... I'd really hope you would have my permission beforehand, because it's something I would kind of perceive as rude unless I put out a lot of information about it that would make sense that your character happened to find out.

Examples: Skafloc's fliers of Evanthe with Fynne having seen them, versus, the villain in my story assembling a meeting of a bunch of Kael'Thas' former inner circle and discussing what to do about their Prince's sudden bout of "terminal mental health"

If you put up a flier, it's for everyone to see... hence why people do it, to get attention. Fynne using that to propose a way for his character to get involved in a cross faction RP storyline fits in fine, as Skafloc had the choice to respond with a "You do? Let us get together and discuss this." (AKA: Sure, you can be a part of it) or "I don't believe you could have, but thank you for your concern" (AKA: No, your involvement wouldn't fit, sorry). Then either Skaf and Fynne brainstorm about what to do, or they don't.

With my scenario... Fynne having information about my villain and his plans because he somehow managed to 1) Find where the meeting was, 2) Sneak past dozens of fully armored "TK trash mob" skilled guards, and 3) Listen in on a bunch of "add elites and raid boss NPCs" that quite a few would have stealth detection... that would make no sense whatsoever. As such, he really couldn't, and saying he could or did would be ridiculously unrealistic. I dare say... metagaming. If for some reason Fynne wanted to be involved, he'd have to talk to myself or Rethsil, to figure out how so it could work, or if it even could.

It's a little bit of an issue for me because I don't like the possibility of people disrespecting my ideas and just doing whatever the hell they want to with them, but also if it's someone else's plot I'm involved in, I don't like risking doing the same to them. I've been involved with enough "free for all" RPs to know that they don't work and usually end up with people being resentful for some reason or another.

[Fynne]

Duly noted, Rand; I'll do my best to steer clear of interacting with you unless it's strictly brought about by in-character, in-game means.

[Rand_Shea]

Duly noted, Rand; I'll do my best to steer clear of interacting with you unless it's strictly brought about by in-character, in-game means.

Might just be misinterpreting 'tone' through text, but that seemed kind of rude and I don't think I deserved it.

But, whatever.

[Xiphus]

If you use OOC information ICly... I'd really hope you would have my permission beforehand, because it's something I would kind of perceive as rude unless I put out a lot of information about it that would make sense that your character happened to find out.

Examples: Skafloc's fliers of Evanthe with Fynne having seen them, versus, the villain in my story assembling a meeting of a bunch of Kael'Thas' former inner circle and discussing what to do about their Prince's sudden bout of "terminal mental health"

If you put up a flier, it's for everyone to see... hence why people do it, to get attention. Fynne using that to propose a way for his character to get involved in a cross faction RP storyline fits in fine, as Skafloc had the choice to respond with a "You do? Let us get together and discuss this." (AKA: Sure, you can be a part of it) or "I don't believe you could have, but thank you for your concern" (AKA: No, your involvement wouldn't fit, sorry). Then either Skaf and Fynne brainstorm about what to do, or they don't.

With my scenario... Fynne having information about my villain and his plans because he somehow managed to 1) Find where the meeting was, 2) Sneak past dozens of fully armored "TK trash mob" skilled guards, and 3) Listen in on a bunch of "add elites and raid boss NPCs" that quite a few would have stealth detection... that would make no sense whatsoever. As such, he really couldn't, and saying he could or did would be ridiculously unrealistic. I dare say... metagaming. If for some reason Fynne wanted to be involved, he'd have to talk to myself or Rethsil, to figure out how so it could work, or if it even could.

It's a little bit of an issue for me because I don't like the possibility of people disrespecting my ideas and just doing whatever the hell they want to with them, but also if it's someone else's plot I'm involved in, I don't like risking doing the same to them. I've been involved with enough "free for all" RPs to know that they don't work and usually end up with people being resentful for some reason or another.

How about this, someone places a bunch of spies disguised as the elites in there to eavesdrop. All information gather is passed to the employer who placed the spies. The information is then sent to his agents who are to proceed with the next phase of the operation.

IF one of the agents/spies/the employer who got the information is the RPer, he will definitely know what is going on. But an agent will usually not say what he knows, because, really, the more he keeps others other than himself and his colleagues ignorant, the higher the likelihood of him succeeding.

However, if the employer is never investigating those villains, there will be no spies, therefore, no information, and thus, no RPer except the plotter would know.