Women playing Gay Blood Elf men...WHY?

[The_Golden_Wolf]

Not that there is anything wrong with that ( hehe Seinfeld) but, ... can someone explain to me WHY!??

Why are there sooo many? I must admit I know at least half a dozen
(if not more) women on TN that play Gay Blood Elf males...WHY!!!!!

Someone please explain this phenomena before my brain explodes.

[Evanthe]

To bring up another cliché- Probably the same reason males play lesbians?

[Cessily]

Evanthe has a point, even if I know only a few males that play lesbians.

And yes, this question puzzles me too, The_Golden_Wolf person.

[Solenev]

Could it be the popularity of Yaoi and slash fiction? I admit I like reading some m/m stuff. Writing it, not really so much. But reading it can be fun. Also male characters are often taken more seriously than female characters by PUGs and the like.

Besides, the blood elves just are asking to have male/male relationships. The men are prettier.

[opalexian]

Still the prettiest!

You came to the right place to ask that question /sage nod

[Swerto]

The_Golden_Wolf is carmensita....


anyways it's up to them, don't ask... you might not like the answer...


and NO I don't play any lesbians. Kelithiaa is straight, as is Lucreciaa. Securo is actually bi-curious >_> <_<

[Aquizit]

I'm a gay male playing a gay male blood elf, so... ... um, does RPing with all the women playing gay male blood elves make me straight?


MY WORLD IS CRUMBLING AROUND MEEEE!

[Malethia]

Evanthe has a point, even if I know only a few males that play lesbians.

IT'S YOUR FAULT!

[Zelaine Evershine]

You forget though Quizzy that male belfs are very feminie so you a playing a lesbian...and everyone loves lesbians

[Korrin]

People like to explore other personalities and other ideals when they can. The internet makes it very easy to do as such, I am pretty sure this first happened in like AOL chat rooms with guys pretending to be girls and girls pretending to be guys. People do it so they can experience a different style of life I suppose.

It also has roots in the idea that we like stories and fantasy where the lead character is someone completely different from ourselves, not living the day to day life 9 to 5 job. The easiest way to achieve this is by creating something completely different from yourself, opposite sex, opposite sexual preference, or both.

Besides all elves are gay, men only like men and girls only like girls. That's why they all have to be immortal cause there won't be anymore of them.

[Jeedup]

This subject often makes me laugh cause personally, I don't care what people roleplay their characters sexuality as, its their choice. I do find funny is sometimes the men who play lesbian women, or women who play gay men, often bicker about the other side, when really, they're both doing the same damn thing.

[Kovan]

Oh for fel's sake. Why does one of these threads spawn once every six weeks or so? Am -so- fething tempted to go digging and pull up all the prior threads on the subject.

[edit] Well I went looking for all said threads, and as far as I can tell they eventually got locked and deleted, or got dumped in the inferno section, which went away alltogether. So I suppose we can start all over and list some of the main points which I see so glaringly ommited here.

~ Male gamers. They are creepy, stalkerey, and they either try and mac all over you, or they tend to treat you like you are mentally retarded. Many if not all the women I know playing men, do so because they -don't- want the attention, positive OR negative.

~ A broader selection of personae to choose from. I actually play both genders. ( Most females playing males do you may discover. Just our male characters get the most attention as the 'anomaly' )

~ Personal preference. My tastes are homosexual by nature, and well.. to be honest, I will do just about -anything- to avoid roleplaying lesbian romance with a guy. 99.2&#37; of you just arn't good at it. The most expedient way for me to do this is to play an obnoxious male personae who hits on women, and gets involved with other men ( Whom if you want to get deep into the what/how of it, are mostly played by -le Gasp- other women. )

I do it because it's fun, enjoyable and comfortable. yes, Male belves are pretty. Hell I would So do Kovan, seriously, he's an ass but I would definitly have one of those : Slip 'em a Zanex and ride-like-you-stole-it moments.

I Do. However.. deeply resent the implication that my rp is a cheap Yaoi rippoff because I am playing a gay male. Do I go around comparing half the storylines in Silvermoon to a badly done ripoff of Daniel Steele? No.
Could I? Probably.

Irregardless it all boils down to: It's fun. you might try it sometime.

[Jeedup]

Oh for fucks sake. Why does one of these threads spawn once every six weeks or so? Am -so- fething tempted to go digging and pull up all the prior threads on the subject.

Seriously there has been? Damn, now I'm curious.

In reality, its really not that big a deal, hell it isnt one at all. Roleplaying is to play out a character or situation you wouldn't find yourself in normal life. If that includes ones gender and sexuality, then hey, why not. Go for it, its for fun anyways. Guys do it, and girls do it, straight people do it, and gay people do it, NO BIG DEAL.


I like pie.

[Irithel]

My character is not gay. That's all.

(He's omnisexual. >_> )


(Kovan already said what else I would've said, pretty much.)

[Ellsbeth]

The only person in this thread who mentioned Yaoi was me. I don't think you need to get so upset over it Kovan. Yaoi is good and I have read really excellent Yaoi. The best writer I know is a Yaoi author. I think she'd be a bit miffed that you think all Yaoi is trash. But then that's your own opinion, I just don't understand why you would consider it a direct insult to your RP.

I don't think anyone has been insulting it at all. Chill out.

The stories I like the best on the TNG are always romances.

And Danielle Steele is an over insulted author who still makes millions of dollars for what is actually pretty entertaining work. Happy endings are wonderful. I can list dozens of Fantasy and Sci-Fi authors who are worse, make tons of money, but have a better reputation simply because they are not writing about bodices and thrusting members... wait a minute... yeah they are.

[Kovan]

The only person in this thread who mentioned Yaoi was me. I don't think you need to get so upset over it Kovan. Yaoi is good and I have read really excellent Yaoi. Also, romance novels are excellent and I have read really excellent romance novels.

I don't think anyone has been insulting it at all. Chill out.

Blarg sorry, I didnt mean to come off all Nazi fembitch. You -really- have no idea how much that gets thrown in ones teeth if they find out you are a woman playing a gay-guy.

" Omfg not another yaoi fangurl! < eyeroll> "

It gets a kneejerk growl and hiss from me, everytime the label gets slapped on .

[edit some more] I actually own Several Steele books. I enjoy them. It doesnt mean I enjoy occasionally seeing her works copied nearly by rote into rp ( yep seen it done ). I grabbed her name as a recognizable writer of heterosexual romance, not out of any venoum for the author.

[Ellsbeth]

Ehh it's all good. I love writing erotica and in real life I'm pretty prudish. There's a stereotype about erotica writers too. It's not exactly something you can bring up at dinner conversation unless you're with the right group of people.

I kinda agree about the guys playing bad lesbians thing and how it turns one off. I've run into that.

[Skafloc]

I really don't have an opinion on this, nor do I want one. Not really something I bother to think about.

But I WILL suggest this one tidbit, directed mostly to any male players that may have had or are having women relationship problems:

Study these gay male belfs played by women very closely, their mannerisms, how they talk to each other, what little gestures they do for each other.

Therein may lie some hidden gems of insight. ;)

[Ellsbeth]

Skafloc always gives some hidden gems of insight. ;)

Fixed.

[Jeedup]

Blarg sorry, I didnt mean to come off all Nazi fembitch. You -really- have no idea how much that gets thrown in ones teeth if they find out you are a woman playing a gay-guy.

" Omfg not another yaoi fangurl! < eyeroll> "

It gets a kneejerk growl and hiss from me, everytime the label gets slapped on .

Serious question, would the same reaction be vaild from guys playing girls? Dont even know if theres a "yaoi" type word for that or anything.

[Ellsbeth]

Dont even know if theres a "yaoi" type word for that or anything.

Yuri.

It doesn't seem to have the same kind of Western following I think because the media is so full of girl love over here that it's saturated.

[Jeedup]

Yuri.

It doesn't seem to have the same kind of Western following I think because the media is so full of girl love over here that it's saturated.

Yah, I hear that.

[Alphaeus]

No, this isn't a flame. If you read it as such, you're placing the wrong tone on the text. It's a venting of frustration, and an attempt to explain.

Personally, all of my characters, male or female, are bi-sexual, like I am. I have more female characters than I do male characters. I avoid playing the females, and get really bored of them -fast- because of the manner in which people treat me and my character. Yes, the people Al cares for most deeply in his life happen to be males who are also RPed by women. This doesn't mean he's not interested in women, but I've very rarely found a woman who suits his tastes, and he is not the kind of man to come out and directly flirt with a girl if he likes her.

It seems that, automatically, upon attaining a vagina and tits, my IQ is assumed to of dropped to less than half. People feel the need to explain to me how to loot corpses, how to keyboard/mouse turn, how to open my spell book, how to change my camera view, where the 'Royal Exchange' is located, what Thunder Bluff is... I can go on and on and on with the huge, massive, stupid LIST of shit people have tried to 'help' me with once they realized I was a girl, and obviously a lesser human being and not at all capable of playing this game without a big, strong, handsome, witty, funny man (such as themselves) to gently guide my giddy, thoughtless self through every little step. People discount my thoughts on specs, gear and tactic when I'm on my female characters, where as the SAME PEOPLE when pugging in with them AGAIN on a MALE character listened to the SAME advice and THANKED me for it. True, fucking, story.

Do I consider being female in this environment a disadvantage? Yes. Do people treat me like a second class (or lower) citizen, and frequently challenge or make active attempts to disprove my word? Yes. Is this alleviated by playing a male character and not bothering to mention to random strangers that I'm a woman IRL? Yes.

I've had to suffer the 'yaoi fangirl' label for years because of my character choice. Yes, there is enjoyable yaoi out there. Yes, I enjoy many of the art styles, and some of the specific series. However, the label of 'yaoi fangirl' denotes a pre-teen who worships, lives for, breathes, and talks about yaoi series non-stop. The kind of person who knows the birth date, favorite color, height, weight, and 'length' of every major character in their particular series's fandom, both canon and fanon forms, and can give a complete synopsis of every episode or volume. As such, claiming females who RP homo-or-bi-sexual males to be 'yaoi' or 'yaoi fangirls' is both highly demeaning and offensive, feeling as if it's cheapening our characters and RPs, likening them to the fan fiction based brainchildren of horny teenagers.

Oddly, the lesbians RP'd by males are more widely accepted and less brow-quirked at. Not many people even question it anymore. Yet people feel the need to ask why when it's flipped the other way around. It's not strange. It's not abnormal.

In the past, on another Rp community's forum, such a question came up. Someone was wondering about the large amount of males RP'd by females, most of which were bi-sexual or gay. Always, on that forum, it boiled down to the women revealing their reasoning for questioning it: they wanted the men for themselves. It wasn't 'fair' that they were 'all gay'.

[Jeedup]

In the past, on another Rp community's forum, such a question came up. Someone was wondering about the large amount of males RP'd by females, most of which were bi-sexual or gay. Always, on that forum, it boiled down to the women revealing their reasoning for questioning it: they wanted the men for themselves. It wasn't 'fair' that they were 'all gay'.

Wow, thats a very interesting way of looking at it, and puts a new light on things I guess.

kudos points for Al!


Oddly, the lesbians RP'd by males are more widely accepted and less brow-quirked at. Not many people even question it anymore. Yet people feel the need to ask why when it's flipped the other way around. It's not strange. It's not abnormal.

Honestly, I've seen alot of "negative" critism of them, just as much as the opposite group, though, not to the extent of the what I'm sure you, or Kovan, or others have had to endure. And frankly, its pretty hypocritical, both groups are doing the same things for some of the basic reasons. There may be other reasons people choose to roleplay in that manner, like you yourself just expressed, and well put too, I again have to add. But in reality, its really just the same thing, and there SHOULDNT be anything wrong with it.

For fudges sake, I play a 7 foot tall, purple skinned, big eared, three fingered troll, WHAT A FREAK I AM! *cries in the corner*

[Alphaeus]

The males RP'd by females are often more likely to appeal to the women who created them, and the women they RP with. As such, other women are likely to enjoy the character, and thus, questioning the character's homo-or-bi-sexuality in public places is a way to act out against the 'unfairness' that so many of the appealing men end up in relationships with other male characters who are also appealing. Often, at the Tether, it seemed like they were trying to brow-beat the characters into heterosexuality.

But then, a few smart straight men did what Skafloc advised... they made male characters who would have fit right in with the males the females were RPing. And thus, the complaining women rejoiced.

[Ellsbeth]

I can understand now why the anger at being connected with the word Yaoi. There are crazy fangirls for everything. I think the OP's question was just curious. Yaoi was only brought up in response by me. Again, not by anyone else so I know you're just venting, but nobody else is pointing a finger.

I suppose this is a bit of a sidestep, but I've been researching into erotica markets for publication and I notice something interesting. That there is no interest in f/f stories and fem/dom stories. Yet m/m stories are not only asked for, but are begged for! In all submission guidelines I have looked to see why that is, but then I suppose if you read erotica/romantica it makes sense. The market is, for the most part, women. This does not mean the crazy fangirl market, but paying adults.

I have attempted to get my characters involved with other female characters. My personal sexual preference aside, it becomes difficult as I find that there is a blurring line between IC and OOC especially if the player of that female is male. I don't really understand that as I'm very little like any of my characters except for one I barely play. But this has been touched on before.

Vicariously I see the male relationships play out between many of our gay males (and a few are played by males too!) and envy that. There seems to be little blurring of OOC and IC in those relationships as the players know it's just the characters involved. Kinda makes me want to reroll my paladin.

[Jeedup]

I've found this discussion to be rather interesting, and has made me think on a few things.

Being straight and playing a male character, I know I don't come from a valid standpoint on pointing out issues that either guy/girl players with guy/girl characters doing what in whos butt or whatever, might seem hypocritical, against the common grain of things, or whatever bullshit. I honestly don't care. I have friends that do both, but have always been curious of their choices.

Some are very obvious and upfront about it, others are alittle more quiet in there reasonings.

This discussion has been incredibly interesting and informative, and I hope it goes on as such.

[Naheal]

As a guy who's rped both a male and a female character (convinsingly), I think I ought to toss in a bit of insight.

For one, on the OT's subject: How many men do you see who are comfortable with roleplaying a gay character? I, for one, wouldn't know where to start, so I don't RP one. There's more to it than that, though.

To the guys who RP a female character: Want her to be convinsing? Watch a woman. See how she reacts to various things. Not just one, either. Watch multiple. Pull your character out of each person's personality and create a character based on that before you say you can do it well.

I would also say that this applies to the opposite as well. Not all women to play guys can get it quite right. Something's wrong or missing in it.

[Swerto]

How many men do you see who are comfortable with roleplaying a gay character?

I'm straight
I RP

-Straight undead male - so no sex >_>
-Bicurious Quel'dorei male
-Straight BElf Female
-Straight Orc
-Straight Undead male - no sex again
-Straight Undead Fem - once again no sex

I really just try to avoid the whole "sex" part of romance in RP... it's not that I'm uncomfortable... it's that I really just don't find it as important to the development of my characters as say... taking someone to the edge of ghostlands and putting them through a ritual that will change their lives.

[Vilmah]

I've never played a dude character for more than ten minutes. I'm most definitely a chick. I like being a chick, I like playing a chick, and I probably will forever.

For you chicks who play dudes, have your fun. Hell if I care. For crap's sake, it's an f'ing game. This is the same as asking why so many people play orphans. It's just a character choice. With a penis.

[Kaliera]

I've read a couple of different posts talking about how male gamers treat female characters differently. I think I have the solution:


Roll a female Tauren.


Seriously. I have yet to have a single person approach me from the "lolz want 2 b bf + gf??" angle, as those types tend to hit on avatars that resemble girls in real life. I've yet to be treated like a (paraphrased) lesser human being due to my tauren being female either.

Though this does raise the question: do people actually find blood elf female avatars attractive? I've always seen them as anorexic looking preying mantii. Creepy.

/ramble

[e] Also, Fhen is totally a girl playing a gay tauren.

[Lisbet]

Now see, things in this thread are getting to me. I can understand playing how you like, and all that jaz..


But don't use "because I get treated unfairly" as your excuse. I play all female characters. Why? Because I am not male, I am not a tomboy, and I don't enjoy trying to pretend I am male, straight, gay or otherwise.

Do I have problems with stupid 15 year old boys hitting on me? Occasionaly. Do I tell them I am old enough to be their mother, and what would SHE think if they were flirting with a girl over the internet, and for all they knew I could be a 70 year old boy touching man..? Absoultely.

We had a conversation in guild chat one day, about how female gamers fail and we are handed everything we've gotten and its all because we have a vagina instead of a penis. Did I sit idly by and let these fat headed, testosterone driven college age boys continue having the conversation? You bet your ass I didn't. I told them that our female gamers were some of the best players in the guild, and while their lazy dps doing asses get to hit two buttons and watch porn, our Lady gamers do things like raid heal, tank, and ever so sweetly call out curses, poisons, debuffs, fight transitions, etc etc in their beautiful female tones, which are intense and ridiculously difficult jobs.


The very idea that we women feel the need to hide behind the male gender, PIXILATED STYLE, to not be bothered, is sad and wrong. I don't get harrassed, and If by chance I do, I tell them where to stick it, put them on ignore, and move on. I don't take that kind of crap out in the world, and by gods I am not going to be forced to play a boy just so I don't have to in a computer game.


So again, if you're playing a gay male, play it because its fun, don't use it as an excuse not to "woman up".

[Vilmah]

I've read a couple of different posts talking about how male gamers treat female characters differently. I think I have the solution:


Roll a female Tauren.


Seriously. I have yet to have a single person approach me from the "lolz want 2 b bf + gf??" angle,

I have. But, I'm also Vilmah, and I don't think it matters what I play. Someone out there will have a fetish for it.

[Kaliera]

I have. But, I'm also Vilmah, and I don't think it matters what I play. Someone out there will have a fetish for it.

But that doesn't seem to bug you, and if it does, there's nothing in game forcing you to reveal that you're "Vlimah" either.

[Vilmah]

But that doesn't seem to bug you, and if it does, there's nothing in game forcing you to reveal that you're "Vlimah" either.

No no, it doesn't bug me. It USED to, for a few split seconds, which was when I went ingogneto for a while.. but now I don't care. Yeah, I'm Vilmah. Yeah I play a thousand different chicks. As long as I don't hurt anyone with my antics, it shouldn't matter.

[Shadowspeak]

Bir SO started it.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

No, this isn't a flame. If you read it as such, you're placing the wrong tone on the text. It's a venting of frustration, and an attempt to explain.

Personally, all of my characters, male or female, are bi-sexual, like I am. I have more female characters than I do male characters. I avoid playing the females, and get really bored of them -fast- because of the manner in which people treat me and my character. Yes, the people Al cares for most deeply in his life happen to be males who are also RPed by women. This doesn't mean he's not interested in women, but I've very rarely found a woman who suits his tastes, and he is not the kind of man to come out and directly flirt with a girl if he likes her.

It seems that, automatically, upon attaining a vagina and tits, my IQ is assumed to of dropped to less than half. People feel the need to explain to me how to loot corpses, how to keyboard/mouse turn, how to open my spell book, how to change my camera view, where the 'Royal Exchange' is located, what Thunder Bluff is... I can go on and on and on with the huge, massive, stupid LIST of shit people have tried to 'help' me with once they realized I was a girl, and obviously a lesser human being and not at all capable of playing this game without a big, strong, handsome, witty, funny man (such as themselves) to gently guide my giddy, thoughtless self through every little step. People discount my thoughts on specs, gear and tactic when I'm on my female characters, where as the SAME PEOPLE when pugging in with them AGAIN on a MALE character listened to the SAME advice and THANKED me for it. True, fucking, story.

Do I consider being female in this environment a disadvantage? Yes. Do people treat me like a second class (or lower) citizen, and frequently challenge or make active attempts to disprove my word? Yes. Is this alleviated by playing a male character and not bothering to mention to random strangers that I'm a woman IRL? Yes.

I've had to suffer the 'yaoi fangirl' label for years because of my character choice. Yes, there is enjoyable yaoi out there. Yes, I enjoy many of the art styles, and some of the specific series. However, the label of 'yaoi fangirl' denotes a pre-teen who worships, lives for, breathes, and talks about yaoi series non-stop. The kind of person who knows the birth date, favorite color, height, weight, and 'length' of every major character in their particular series's fandom, both canon and fanon forms, and can give a complete synopsis of every episode or volume. As such, claiming females who RP homo-or-bi-sexual males to be 'yaoi' or 'yaoi fangirls' is both highly demeaning and offensive, feeling as if it's cheapening our characters and RPs, likening them to the fan fiction based brainchildren of horny teenagers.

Oddly, the lesbians RP'd by males are more widely accepted and less brow-quirked at. Not many people even question it anymore. Yet people feel the need to ask why when it's flipped the other way around. It's not strange. It's not abnormal.

In the past, on another Rp community's forum, such a question came up. Someone was wondering about the large amount of males RP'd by females, most of which were bi-sexual or gay. Always, on that forum, it boiled down to the women revealing their reasoning for questioning it: they wanted the men for themselves. It wasn't 'fair' that they were 'all gay'.

Can I quote this whole thing? Thanks...

I just wanted to say, you articulated much of what I do feel as a female gamer. My original post wasn't meant to be insulting, it was more one of shock/surprise, then wondering if there was something I was "missing out on",and desperately wanting to know the answer. I honestly have no angst about it, obviously; since my character is semi-involved with Arte. I can see how playing a female could get annoying, and even worse: strained ...as you have mentioned the peculiar risk of being stalked, as I am currently dealing with this on Carmensita ( and I never use the term stalk loosely). This has been the greatest problem I have dealt with. However I just want to say there are many actual males I pve, pvp , and rp with that are absolutely awesome.

As far as males playing lesbians, no offense...but many do so poorly. I don't really have many alts, as my main characters story is so
complex and involved with so many other people, trying to level her to be of better use to my guild, plus having an officer's position, I am rather busy with her. I have toyed with making my priest a lesbian, despite the fact that I am not one. I also think it would be fun to play a straight male, although that might piss off some of the women who would play some of his future love-interests.

On another note, I just found out what Yaoi was today, I have never heard the term until just recently. I honestly have no idea if this is common practice , hence my surprise. Until now I seriously thought, they were just all gay males irl. So it was a bit of a shocker. I wouldn't go as far as to say all the belf characters are gay. On it's surface there appears to be a select group; which now that I know that they are women,(and I have known for quite a while) it makes complete sense. Yes, belf men are pretty but several of the female makes I have seen (imo) are much more attractive ( I am Bi irl ). This of course makes it difficult for me to play my extremely sexually naive, and completely heterosexual character.

Lastly, it shouldn't matter. However, during a moment of incredible curiosity I had to ask! The challenge now being, not to let this OOC knowlege affect my gameplay or RPing, which I think I have done a fairly good job of.

A big <smooch> for everyone who took the time to explain and help me understand. Ciao!

[Broxigan]

I play a semi-gay male!

-cough.- That means nothing! NOTHING I TELLS YOU!

[Xiphus]

People play gay because they find it fun. Girls play gay males because it is fun and it plays to their fantasies or something. No special meaning behind it.

Me, I play a male. Don't ask questions about his sexuality, because he is damned undead!

[Niethan]

I play a semi-gay male!

-cough.- That means nothing! NOTHING I TELLS YOU!

!!!


Niethan's radar just pinged off the fucking chart.

[Broxigan]

!!!


Niethan's radar just pinged off the fucking chart.

Well, he was supposed to be gay, but someone changed that. I have this other idea for this other toon who I will be starting up. Who will be gay. Because it is fun.

Not to mention the gay gone straight character is a complete nutcase.

This guy will be normal!

[Niethan]

Well, he was supposed to be gay, but someone changed that.

Like that'll stop Niethan.

[Syreena]

It seems that, automatically, upon attaining a vagina and tits, my IQ is assumed to of dropped to less than half. People feel the need to explain to me how to loot corpses, how to keyboard/mouse turn, how to open my spell book, how to change my camera view, where the 'Royal Exchange' is located, what Thunder Bluff is... I can go on and on and on with the huge, massive, stupid LIST of shit people have tried to 'help' me with once they realized I was a girl, and obviously a lesser human being and not at all capable of playing this game without a big, strong, handsome, witty, funny man (such as themselves) to gently guide my giddy, thoughtless self through every little step. People discount my thoughts on specs, gear and tactic when I'm on my female characters, where as the SAME PEOPLE when pugging in with them AGAIN on a MALE character listened to the SAME advice and THANKED me for it. True, fucking, story.

Do I consider being female in this environment a disadvantage? Yes. Do people treat me like a second class (or lower) citizen, and frequently challenge or make active attempts to disprove my word? Yes. Is this alleviated by playing a male character and not bothering to mention to random strangers that I'm a woman IRL? Yes.

I must be doing something wrong...or right! I've never experienced any of that, either with guild groups or PuG's, on any of my characters and they're all female. The only time I've ever been talked to like I was dumb was when I was doing something dumb. The people that treated me that way, I've seen and heard talk to other people--male and female alike--the same way when they were doing something dumb. I've never had the impression I was being treated that way simply because of gender.

[Chikt]

Like that'll stop Niethan.

Niethan better be behaving. If Uncle Dio comes back to a bunch of antics having taken place, he's gonna smackabitch!

[Everindela]

Hmm... Interesting.

Maybe I should roll a male character for once.

[Ellsbeth]

I've never had the impression I was being treated that way simply because of gender.

This. Unless I'm in a PUG and start getting the A/S/L thing. But then it's usually with my blood elf and never with any of the other races. iiiinteresting.

[Anaie]

I just tend to let whatever happens happen with my characters....

Anaie has a life at sea past and is a notorious flirt... married to a male orc (who is a male player)... but flirts with anyone she thinks will be flustered by it. I have her do it more to get people to loosen up.

Kiaransalius took on a life of her own as her story went along. I had her unknown to any type of caring at all, so she just becomes protective and attached to people that show her love. I never really considered what sex it came from, she is a messed up person (much better now of course) and was happy to be cared about. I actually had her interested in male characters but no one was responsive really, I suppose she shouldn't have been such a bitch in the beginning IC. :P

Beloren, straight as an arrow. As is Thar and my Troll Hunter. My female Tauren druid is as well, and my orc warlock is purely about power. My Undead banker warlock doesn't even consider any type of relationship, he just doesn't want to be flogged for screwing up his job as quartermaster.

Relationships with my characters just tend to flow with the characters around them, I never "intend" to do anything, I just RP things out how the character would.

I have no idea how well I play the female characters I play (as far as convincing) but I do my best :P

Oh and the reason I even rolled females for the "main characters" I play was two-fold.

1) on my first server I noticed that if I needed help with a quest or a kill or something and my character was male, I got hardly any. If it was female all the annoying little bastards who said "oh female" helped like crazy. Sure when it was done i was like, "thanks, oh no I don't do that, besides there are no women on the internets. learn it, and love it, now leave me alone or run me through Scarlet Monestary without saying a word." Granted this does not really apply anymore, but my first server was me and about 2 friends when I first started. Needed help alot :P

2) The way the avatars look/move.

I hate the way Blood Elf males run/jump. It drives me nuts. I want to walk everywhere with Beloren, because he doesn't look like he has a lead pipe up his ass when he walks at least. Unfortunately, if I walked everywhere I would be 100 years old before I hit level 40. Plus he is an elf... not a damn bodybuilder. Same with Night Elves.. I think the males look kind of stupid unless they have a perfect combo of gear/looks.

I think the Forsaken female models look cooler overall (even though I have one of each sex) and like the creation aspects available to them.

For my other characters...
Orcs I think both look cool, but I prefer males, mainly because I have no idea how I would rp a female orc... they scare me (as they should!).

Tauren... female, because I like to see things on my screen. Not just half of it taken up by shoulders and back.

Trolls, I think both are cool and have good options and would play either really.

eh.. im ranting now...

[Vilmah]

Orcs I think both look cool, but I prefer males, mainly because I have no idea how I would rp a female orc... they scare me (as they should!).

Vilmah is a tiny bundle of fear.

[Anaie]

Too hit on what Syreena said as well... I will only treat someone like they are dumb is when they are being dumb (to me at least). I don't care if you are male or female or even human when it comes to screw ups, I will treat you the same way.

Granted we all make mistakes, so the first few are free. (*waves hand and tells everyone to forget the times I have walked into pulls thinking I was stealthed and wasn't. "why isn't sap working... and why are they all hitting me!"*)

[Niethan]

Niethan better be behaving. If Uncle Dio comes back to a bunch of antics having taken place, he's gonna smackabitch!

Bitchslapping threats mean nothing to Niethan! He sent flowers to Nojinbu, of all people. If he hadn't cut them off, his balls would be made of iron.

[Anaie]

Vilmah is a tiny bundle of fear.

I play my male orc as a bad ass, but knowing that the orc women have control (wont admit it!). He is like a green Hagar the Horrible.

[Vilmah]

I play my male orc as a bad ass, but knowing that the orc women have control (wont admit it!). He is like a green Hagar the Horrible.

XD!!! I must meet him! Unless I already have, and he made Vilmah cry?

[Anaie]

I hardly play him, as I find warrior to be horribly boring (he was my first character here and has been passed by two so far and been near the 60 area since before I made Anaie)... but I did respec him dps to attempt to get him to 70 one day. I just need time/desire...

[Alana]

Sometimes Zelaine is brilliant.

[Cessily]

It seems that, automatically, upon attaining a vagina and tits, my IQ is assumed to of dropped to less than half. People feel the need to explain to me how to loot corpses, how to keyboard/mouse turn, how to open my spell book, how to change my camera view, where the 'Royal Exchange' is located, what Thunder Bluff is... I can go on and on and on with the huge, massive, stupid LIST of shit people have tried to 'help' me with once they realized I was a girl, and obviously a lesser human being and not at all capable of playing this game without a big, strong, handsome, witty, funny man (such as themselves) to gently guide my giddy, thoughtless self through every little step. People discount my thoughts on specs, gear and tactic when I'm on my female characters, where as the SAME PEOPLE when pugging in with them AGAIN on a MALE character listened to the SAME advice and THANKED me for it. True, fucking, story.

I don't know about this. Cessily is my first character, so I didn't know the game at all up until I made her. Heck, I saw Mulgore for the first time last week. However, I didn't find myself so downgraded for being a female playing a female character. Okay, some men make it way easier for you. But others (and most in The Grim, at least), like Abric, couldn't care less if your a woman or not. I had to work hard like everybody else to get my stuff together and become a respectable PvE Rogue. It was fun and I did it by myself, with little-to-nothing "Lol, you are a girl! Lemme help you to kill these boars".

Maybe you just had some bad experiences.

Haqin tells me all the time that 'Girls can't PvP'. =P But he is a irl friend and a pig, so no worries. Oh, and Las calls me Little Noob all the time.

[Alana]

i thought chicks played guys to be left alone by guys and guys played chicks to have lesbian cyber.

some things aren't really that complicated.

[Xenorin]

I love this thread. There are alot of good points in it. Alot of it clears up a few little questions I had. And truthfully, I see nothing wrong with anyone playing what they like.

But I will say this; I have gone so far as to RP a female just so I can have "romantic" straight style RP for the simple fact women seem to judge the guys before they ever get a chance to RP. Most women, yes I am stereotyping at the moment, seem to think all guys who RP just end up wanting cyber. Not always true.

As I said, I have rolled up females to have actual straight relationships since it NEVER seems to work the other way around. But a problem arises from this. When the guys happen to find out a guy is playing behind the girl, most of the time, my RP dies. It gets too "weird".

It is hard as hell as a guy in an RP world to work relationships out for the simple fact we are judged before we ever get into the game. not all of us are sex crazed, stalking, lawlcybers, can I sniff your panties sort of freaks.

I like romance, I like drama (to an extent), I like "love". I wish I could come across it more with my characters/stories. But it just doesn't happen often.

-crawls back into his corner.- Also, I tend to repeat myself, so just ignore it if it happen. -rolls.-

[Fynne]

Just to clarify, I'm not condescending to anyone (this is where Thunder Bluff is... this is how you loot a corpse... etc.) because they're a girl - I'm really just condescending to everyone.

Uh, I meant helpful. Yeah. I'm helpful to everyone. Especially people who don't ask and obviously need it.

;)

[Agnarr]

I'd be more interested in an answer to "why is there so much sex in your WoW?"

[Bir]

I have been playing a gay human (Errigal (http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Maelstrom&n=Errigal))longer than I have been playing a gay blood elf. (Bir (http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting+Nether&n=Bir) Romine (http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting+Nether&n=Romine))

I play a gay undead too. (Errigal (http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting+Nether&n=Errigal))

Women get no respect and I can't get one to 70 no matter how hard I try. However, I do love elegant dresses and most of my lady characters have one/are logged out wearing it. XD
(Quinlyn (http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Maelstrom&n=Quinlyn)
Kathrine (http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Maelstrom&n=Kathrine)
Raeda (http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Maelstrom&n=Raeda)
Aemilia (http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Maelstrom&n=Aemilia)
Qyu (http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting+Nether&n=Qyu)
Elaine (http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting+Nether&n=Elaine))

;_; SEE HOW HARD I TRIED TO PLAY MY OWN GENDER? SEE?

..Elaine was actually my first character, her name was Amber back on ye olde pee vee pee server, Gul'dan. I am NOT SHITTING YOU AT ALL, some guy paid for two epic ground mounts for me when they were 500g each. EACH. They also bought JERN'S epic ground mount because I was sad I was too ahead of him. You see, I have playing a woman all figured out but it's just sad when men are that stupid. I was hardly even friends with that guy-- and my boyfriend told his stupid guild it was my birthday once so I had like four BoE epics in my mailbox, some of which weren't even good for a warlock at all-- and this random guild leader of a raiding guild brought me to MC/BWL when I didn't even know what a dmg rotation was, luckily for me those guys were really cool and they taught me all I needed to know....... Two warlocks later I'm much more happy not getting the free stalker loot.

And yes, I do regret coming out of the "I'm a woman" closet. I remember when everyone on tng said nothing would change but, ho-boy a LOT changed. xD S'ok though, s'ok, rly. I can stand being poked fun at. (I'M LOOKING AT YOU SZORDRIN.)

[Thrysta]

((
Fynne at times has helped me to find the nearest Graveyard.
Helpful.

Anyways, it's called roleplaying.

A straight girl roleplaying a gay elf? Cool.
A gay dude roleplaying a straight elf? Cool.
A straight guy roleplaying a lesbian troll? Cool.
A straight, devilishly handsome testosterone-laden male roleplaying a
female loony-bin-undead-homicidal-sociopathic murder machine mother
with a wound fetish?

Well, no one does that.
))

[Cabriel]

I'd be more interested in an answer to "why is there so much sex in your WoW?"



THIS!

[Vilmah]

THIS!

..I just loled. In the middle of a class. You handsome bastard.

[Alana]

where you working Vilmah? i need to call them and let them know their students education is being diminished.


there's been a lot of male bashing in this thread, as someone who has a lot of female characters, 90&#37; of the time, i'm treated normal. I think anything else is an exception to the rule. there are certainly a lot very skillful women in the Grim that have my respect. they can play WoW pretty well too.

[Bir]

HEY HEY HEY HEY NOW CHILDREN, on my male bashing it was PVP SERVER MALES.

They are a different breed of man, I'm serious.

[Vilmah]

I'm sitting in a class, not teaching it.

And you know I don't bash men. I love them too much.

[Bir]

I only bash stupid men...... <.<

And I did say I was thankful for pvp server men teaching me how2notnewb..

[Yichimet]

THIS!

What he said. I cannot for the life of me figure out why, when given the chance to roleplay in a world where DEMONS play major roles, giant cow-men can talk to the dead, and big green-skinned muscly dudes put the whomp on the pink-skins for a few good years, people are STILL. OBSESSED. WITH ROMANCE. AND SEX.

WHY?!

[opalexian]

I'd be more interested in an answer to "why is there so much sex in your WoW?"

I was about to ask this and am very curious to hear what people have to say about this as well. I come from the D&D mindset, so I'm usually thinking 'why do you have so much time to screw when there is so much shit to be killed?' >_>

As for my choices, I usually play females because I tend to identify with them a bit more. I'm a tomboy, so I'm not very femmey even playing female characters. I guess this kinda leads to me not particularly caring about playing male characters that much-they are already pretty damn masculine (moreso than I am IRL-they're all rugged adventurer.) I'm in Lisbet's boat and can't keep my mouth shut when some guys start their blah blah blah women blah blah. I don't have the handy 'I'm as old as your mom and have kids' thing, but I usually then mock them with the 'there are no girls on the internet' thing and link them that essay too if I can (yay vent comments!) I like most of the horde male models tho and am very happy my current main is a male tauren-now I can get revenge for those years of raiding and having everything blocked out by a sea of cowmen! ^_^

I will say however that I am the queen of stupid, so I often get taken to task for teh stupid, but it's not because I'm female (even tho I'm sure some guys assume it is.) I'm just a lazy space case and bored and screwups can be pure comedy gold. (Like running across Vael's room after he's been triggered >_>)

[Cabriel]

I'm going to clear this all up.

It's because everyone is jealous of the one thing gay men get that straight men and lesbians do not.




















Hot, delicious gay sex**.

[Taknar]

I find this entire conversation to be interesting considering that every time I've RPed a character, male or female, sexual preference has not entered my mind.

I'm not sure if it is because I naturally don't care about it, or if I just assume that I'm straight therefore all my characters should be, but seeing the amount of thought that people put into this aspect of their characters actually makes me feel alienated a bit.

[Xenorin]

Hot, delicious gay sex.

You sir, win.

[Cabriel]

Hot, delicious gay sex.

**for an exploration of some of the finer aspects of said "hot, delicious gay sex", please click here. (http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?p=178637#post178637)

[Vilmah]

**for an exploration of some of the finer aspects of said "hot, delicious gay sex", please click here. (http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?p=178637#post178637)

I have never been prouder to be your guild leader. You actually just brought a tear to my eye.

[Xenorin]

**for an exploration of some of the finer aspects of said "hot, delicious gay sex", please click here. (http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?p=178637#post178637)

SHAMELESS PLUG GOOOO!

[Xorek]

why?
.
.
.
.
.
why not.

*shrug* It makes not a shred of difference.

[Xaraphyne]

The "obvious" reason why women play gay men: yaoi fangirls think men going at it with each other is hot. The "obvious" reason men play lesbian women: all men think women going at it with each other is hot. Speaking of which, I can think of more than a few men playing lesbians on this server, I'm surprised it was more or less dismissed earlier in this thread. But yeah, I won't deny that's more or less why I assume both are fairly prevalent.

That said, it's not necessarily fetishism that makes up someone's motivation to play either. I hear the "I play a man because women are treated like crap" line from female players of gay men more than any others, so it may have been a run of bad experiences that made them feel more comfortable in that role. There may also be any other number of experiences or simple personal preference not linked to "it's hot". Essentially, everyone is different and has their own reasons. Intuitive I know.

You wanna know what confuses the hell out of me? Men playing straight female women. Explicitly. That confuses the hell out of me. Someone explain it.

But taking a step back to getting harrassed as a woman:


The very idea that we women feel the need to hide behind the male gender, PIXILATED STYLE, to not be bothered, is sad and wrong. I don't get harrassed, and If by chance I do, I tell them where to stick it, put them on ignore, and move on. I don't take that kind of crap out in the world, and by gods I am not going to be forced to play a boy just so I don't have to in a computer game.

QFTMFT. I'm proud to be a woman. Anyone who talks down to me isn't going to bother me because I know they're a fucking idiot. <shrug> I'll laugh at their ignorance, spank their sorry ass on the DPS charts, and sashay off leaving them confused, intimidated, and aroused.

And I haven't had it happen that often either... I honestly don't know where other women have these experiences. Then again, I don't go out and particularly advertise I'm a woman when I'm around strangers, it could be that most of the time I'm assumed to be male. Then again again, even if I did somehow let everyone I came into contact with while gaming know I was a female and I did see more negative reactions -- I'd still know they were fucking idiots, and although it might be more tiresome, I'd never let that affect my desire to be the beautiful woman I am.

[Zelaine Evershine]

Sometimes Zelaine is brilliant.

Sometimes! Bah! Im always brilliant its just a matter of when the rest of you are smart enough to recognize it

[Kovan]

I must be doing something wrong...or right! I've never experienced any of that, either with guild groups or PuG's, on any of my characters and they're all female. The only time I've ever been talked to like I was dumb was when I was doing something dumb. The people that treated me that way, I've seen and heard talk to other people--male and female alike--the same way when they were doing something dumb. I've never had the impression I was being treated that way simply because of gender.

My only response to that 2 questions. A.) Have you ever played a a non-undead female.
B.) Have you ever played a male incognito? ( Ie, do you have any comparison to base your observations on?)

I get treated alot differently even now than before I came out that I was a woman behind the pixels.. I'm sorry I let some lame drama pull me out into the open.

Now :




The very idea that we women feel the need to hide behind the male gender, PIXILATED STYLE, to not be bothered, is sad and wrong. I don't get harrassed, and If by chance I do, I tell them where to stick it, put them on ignore, and move on. I don't take that kind of crap out in the world, and by gods I am not going to be forced to play a boy just so I don't have to in a computer game.


So again, if you're playing a gay male, play it because its fun, don't use it as an excuse not to "woman up".

While your sentiment is both proud and moving? I play this game, You know, To relax.
I am.. a hermit In my real life. I live waaaay out in the woods on a dead end road. Mostly because I am avoiding dealing with humanity in my face as a whole.
It has nothing to do with not being proud of being a woman, but after a naval enlistment and getting 6 kids potty trained? I'm sick of stomping cocks and wiping arse in my free time.
I don't want to have to prove I can do it better, It's why I am currently specced healing instead of tanking. I'm sick of getting faulted for not being able to do things my male counterparts couldn't do either.

I don't want a hassle, thats not why I play.
I'll leave it to you kickass outgoing women who have great guys to back em up .

[Vilmah]

I played WoW before Noj ever did. It's funny but, playing Vilmah and leveling her, guys always thought I was a dude. I think the introduction of BElfs Hordeside brought allong the idea that girls actually play this game, because I can't recall ever being discriminated against.

I do remember being called "guy" and "bro" before mentioning that I'm actually a chick, though.

[Evanthe]

Where is all this free stuff and why am I not getting any?! :(

Seriously, I've never had anyone ever give me shit for being a girl, or talk down to me in a PuG or BG. In fact, 90% of the time (at least) they just assume I'm a guy. "Hey man, thanks for the healthstones!" Of course, I also don't get these free epics people talk about. Le sigh. ;)

I play all girl characters mainly because I don't think I could play a man properly. *shrug* Plus, I like girls. So THERE!

[Syreena]

My only response to that 2 questions. A.) Have you ever played a a non-undead female.
B.) Have you ever played a male incognito? ( Ie, do you have any comparison to base your observations on?)


Non undead females:

70 Tauren
70 Blood Elf
50 Blood Elf
52 Night Elf (old server)
And the rest are level 30 or below.

No, I've never played a male character. (Short of one RP session with someone who knew I was a female and we decided he'd play a female and I'd play a male, but we kinda dropped that idea after that just because of lack of time.) I've never felt the need to, based on how people treat me. Like I said, when people talk to me like I'm dumb, it's because I just did something dumb: forgot to stealth before sapping, picking an herb too close to a mob group, standing in fire/poison/charred earth/lava.

On my old PVE server, I got flirted with sometimes as a female night elf, by little kids, but nobody treated me like I was an airhead just for being female. Not saying it never happens to anyone, but it's never happened to me. Jokes about girls can't play video games don't count, because they're just jokes.

[Vilmah]

I demand freebies with Evanthe!!

I don't think I've gotten free stuff for being a girl, before. Now, for being an orc, sure! We are scary,a fter all.

[Naheal]

The "obvious" reason why women play gay men: yaoi fangirls think men going at it with each other is hot. The "obvious" reason men play lesbian women: all men think women going at it with each other is hot. Speaking of which, I can think of more than a few men playing lesbians on this server, I'm surprised it was more or less dismissed earlier in this thread. But yeah, I won't deny that's more or less why I assume both are fairly prevalent.


Not all of us rp characters like that, though, Xara. Remember my ranger, Kirasa? In fact, I find it unfair that men who play women are tossed in this same boat.



That said, it's not necessarily fetishism that makes up someone's motivation to play either. I hear the "I play a man because women are treated like crap" line from female players of gay men more than any others, so it may have been a run of bad experiences that made them feel more comfortable in that role. There may also be any other number of experiences or simple personal preference not linked to "it's hot". Essentially, everyone is different and has their own reasons. Intuitive I know.

...kay. Play a straight male character and never let on that you're a woman irl. If you're a good rper, this should be easy. You will be treated differently.



You wanna know what confuses the hell out of me? Men playing straight female women. Explicitly. That confuses the hell out of me. Someone explain it.

Roleplaying? My first character was a straight woman, so you could arguably say that I did that for a while.

Why did I do that? I RP men when I'm playing D&D. I wanted a break. And, anyways, I'm a straight man irl. What's the challenge in playing a convinsing straight man when I am one?

[Muatah]

i thought chicks played guys to be left alone by guys and guys played chicks to have lesbian cyber.

some things aren't really that complicated.


My Paladin is female because male Blood Elves look stupid as !^@#% and their animations are even worse. *shrug*

[Xenorin]

You wanna know what confuses the hell out of me? Men playing straight female women. Explicitly. That confuses the hell out of me. Someone explain it.

I mentioned it earlier in the thread. I RP females to get the RP I cannot ever seem to get on a male because I am judged before RP ever sets down because it is a guy character.

As for the explicit part, if the RP comes to it, then it comes to it. Just as if I am reading or writing a book. It will happen if it happens. Why feel awkward about it? My actual IRL feelings are not in it beyond the "Ooooh, I wonder what happens next," feeling.

My RPs to me are like books/movies; do you turn away when you are watching a movie when a sex scene comes up? Do you flip pages when something gets spicy in a book?

[Ellsbeth]

... people are STILL. OBSESSED. WITH ROMANCE. AND SEX.

WHY?!

Now I'm gonna write some Yichi porns. Shaman totems go.

And I can say I have gotten free stuff. Whether it's from being a girl or my characters being sweet I don't know. I also began to list the people who have given me things in this game and I realised it was more because I was their friend than because I was a girl. Just like when I find something really awesome that will suit my friends I get all excited to give it to them. Though Malakim swears nobody ever gives him anything so it's because I'm a girl. I don't know about that. If I was complete bitch of a girl nobody would give me anything anyway. I'm only part bitch.

[Xenorin]

Now I'm gonna write some Yichi porns. Shaman totems go.

Awww, not in his pooper.

[Kovan]

As for the explicit part, if the RP comes to it, then it comes to it. Just as if I am reading or writing a book. It will happen if it happens. Why feel awkward about it? My actual IRL feelings are not in it beyond the "Ooooh, I wonder what happens next," feeling.

My RPs to me are like books/movies; do you turn away when you are watching a movie when a sex scene comes up? Do you flip pages when something gets spicy in a book?

Beautifully said. I think that captures it exactly.

It's far FAR from all that happens in my rp. It's just usually deliciously scandalous enough to be the only bits that get noticed. -.-

[Xaraphyne]

I'll leave it to you kickass outgoing women who have great guys to back em up .

What?...


Not all of us rp characters like that, though, Xara. Remember my ranger, Kirasa? In fact, I find it unfair that men who play women are tossed in this same boat.

Hence "obvious" in the quotes. And why I went on the explain that many people are different from the stereotype.


...kay. Play a straight male character and never let on that you're a woman irl. If you're a good rper, this should be easy. You will be treated differently.

And I'll be treated... better? I'm not sure what you're arguing for here.


Roleplaying? My first character was a straight woman, so you could arguably say that I did that for a while.

Why did I do that? I RP men when I'm playing D&D. I wanted a break. And, anyways, I'm a straight man irl. What's the challenge in playing a convinsing straight man when I am one?

My phrasing was put for effect, but I really only meant I didn't get the explicit part. Which brings me to...


As for the explicit part, if the RP comes to it, then it comes to it. Just as if I am reading or writing a book. It will happen if it happens. Why feel awkward about it? My actual IRL feelings are not in it beyond the "Ooooh, I wonder what happens next," feeling.

Well let me ask this, then. How would you feel if your mom was playing the other character? Just sayin'.

[Xenorin]

Well let me ask this, then. How would you feel if your mom was playing the other character? Just sayin'.

Wouldn't really bother me. XD Infact, I would think it is pretty hilarious. My parents and myself are pretty awesomely open, but not in the red neck, you have a pretty mouth sort of way.

But, what works for me doesn't work for everyone.

Besides, as I said, it doesn't matter to me who is on the other side. A story is a story; a book is a book; a movie is a movie regardless of who made it; man, woman, gay, straight, bi, shemale.

[Cabriel]

What?...



Hence "obvious" in the quotes. And why I went on the explain that many people are different from the stereotype.



And I'll be treated... better? I'm not sure what you're arguing for here.



My phrasing was put for effect, but I really only meant I didn't get the explicit part. Which brings me to...



Well let me ask this, then. How would you feel if your mom was playing the other character? Just sayin'.

"Mommy? Are you and mommy getting a divorce? Is it 'cause of me...?"

[Alphaeus]

Just to clarify, I'm not condescending to anyone (this is where Thunder Bluff is... this is how you loot a corpse... etc.) because they're a girl - I'm really just condescending to everyone.

Uh, I meant helpful. Yeah. I'm helpful to everyone. Especially people who don't ask and obviously need it.

;)

Last time you tried to help me, you told me the reagent vendor was in that little alley where there were no guards.

[Kiaransalius]

What he said. I cannot for the life of me figure out why, when given the chance to roleplay in a world where DEMONS play major roles, giant cow-men can talk to the dead, and big green-skinned muscly dudes put the whomp on the pink-skins for a few good years, people are STILL. OBSESSED. WITH ROMANCE. AND SEX.

WHY?!

I just RP the character as realistically as I can... even in a world full of all those things, there will still be connections between people. I do not RP an relationship for the "cyborz" I do it because it is the character and the growth of it.

Like with Anaie/Syreena sisterhood... it was completely random. We didn't even meet in game until we were both 60s. From there I worked with Syreena on the story idea and it took off. No ulterior motives or anything, just an idea that popped into my head when I saw we were identical characters and she had a pretty open character background. It let Anaie grow alot as a character concept. (Yeah I know they are not lovers, but it is still an in-game relationship) But Anaie does have a romantic relationship with Grogkor, purely out of character development (and to make funny emotes in raids). No we do not "cyborz" with them, but it doesnt mean they characters dont get busy (and Yichi peeks in the windows then says he was looking to see if Syreena was over for dinner... suuuuuure....).

With Kiara, relationships (on any level) allow for the character to grow beyond a "im a blood elf female that tanks". She has a more "real" personality now.

[Alana]

I do remember being called "guy" and "bro" before mentioning that I'm actually a chick, though.

i assume everyone is a guy.

[Bir]

This thread is hilarious, continue.

[Cabriel]

I can't do cyber. It's not safe. Pixel penises have too many sharp edges, and let's face it: the resolution in this game isn't that high.

[Bir]

I haven't done cyber in a long long long long time, I usually just do the fade out thing and leave the other person I'm RPing with terribly disappointed. I just don't have the time for internet sex.

[Thalevia]

I must be doing something wrong...or right! I've never experienced any of that, either with guild groups or PuG's, on any of my characters and they're all female. The only time I've ever been talked to like I was dumb was when I was doing something dumb. The people that treated me that way, I've seen and heard talk to other people--male and female alike--the same way when they were doing something dumb. I've never had the impression I was being treated that way simply because of gender.

Ditto. And I have played various races across my several years in Wow. All female avatars.

Tauren hunter (first 60, my guild thought I was a guy until I spoke in Vent and even then nothing changed)
Tauren druid (69)
Two troll priests (both hit mid 40's)
Troll mage (70)
Orc shaman (70)
Undead warlock(twice) and rogue (49, my first character ever actually)
Night Elf druid (admittedly I got to level 20 and deleted her)
Gnome mage (level 12 deleted)
Dwarf paladin (level 12 deleted)
Couple of belfs since the xpac (nothing past level 22)

And never have I been treated differently cause I am a girl or playing a pretty character.

[Kovan]

Ditto. And I have played various races across my several years in Wow. All female avatars.

And never have I been treated differently cause I am a girl or playing a pretty character.

What's your basis of comparison. IF you have never played a male. Do you know what different feels like?

[edit] On a related note but not just for Thal.

What I want to know. Is why when someone asks -why- those of use play male characters do, do. And we respond, those who do NOT, Feel the need to jump in and attempt to invalidate our reasoning?
Why are women who have not and do not, threatened/ offended/ derisive?

[Bir]

Women are always threatened by other women, like cats.

Think: Highschool


Edits: But when women think you're a man they rub all over you.. And if you're like me, and you don't mind women rubbing on you.. Well then. That explains itself doesn't it. Like tee-hee gurlz in instances thinking I'm so hawt. Ehehe. They also think if they kiss up to me I might give them things, I won't, of course, but who doesn't like a good ass kissing?

[Alana]

you had a good point Kovan until the the threatened/offended/derisive part. can someone who never played a male character be qualified to discuss teh difference? hmm. good point indeed.

but Thal's post was very neutral and just stating a fact that she has never been mistreated for being a woman.

BEGIN!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IjlRFiO5_yc&feature=related

[Kovan]

you had a good point Kovan until the the threatened/offended/derisive part. can someone who never played a male character be qualified to discuss teh difference? hmm. good point indeed.

but Thal's post was very neutral and just stating a fact that she has never been mistreated for being a woman.

BEGIN!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IjlRFiO5_yc&feature=related

Mnnn truth. The last was directed al -all- those whom have felt the need to chime in. I didn't mean to come off like I was jumping her in particular.
I do appreciate those (EVERYONE ok Jeedup? ) who have been neutral about this.

[Jeedup]

Mnnn truth. The last was directed al -all- those whom have felt the need to chime in. I didn't mean to come off like I was jumping her in particular.
I do appreciate those women who have been neutral about this.

What about the guys that have been neutral? I dont think it really should be a big deal, but its interesting to see some of the reasons why, or why not, but it doesnt effect my opinion of those people in the least.

[Aquizit]

Ahh the old ERP debate shows up... honestly, it really depends how immersed you want to be. If you -really- want to do EVERYTHING that would be involved in a relationship, sex comes up... so... well, whatever.

Personal choice.

[Aphraelle]

As another gay man who (occasionally) plays gay male characters, I often try to play Spot the Woman :D when my gay male character (on this server, baby paladin Talorios) encounters another. In my own experience - as always, your mileage may vary - I find that women are more successful at playing gay men than men are at playing lesbians; although I have to admit that most (not all, but most) of the gay male characters I've met that are played by women tend to be flaming queens. Butch it up, ladies. ;)

My own female characters are by and large not very sexual, and I've never done any serious ERP on any of them, simply because I'm pretty sure I'd be godawful flamin' lousy at it. :D No experience as a woman and precious little with one.

On the funny (or disturbing, take your pick) side, I remember playing one female character on another server - Andualah on Thorium Brotherhood - when this guy would not leave me alone. I finally whispered him to tell him I was a guy, and a gay guy at that, and next thing I knew he wanted poor Andu to be his transsexual dominatrix and started telling me way more than I needed or wanted to know about his tranny fetish. :eek: I didn't log on to Andu for a good three weeks after that...

[Yichimet]

Now I'm gonna write some Yichi porns. Shaman totems go.

Last I heard, Thrysta has first dibs on this. STRANGLETHORN HO!

"Your totem of the wild...it's so...so..."

[Sulajin]

"Totemic"

[Lythas]

Girls play gay males because it is fun and it plays to their fantasies or something. No special meaning behind it.

*HIGH-FIVES*

... hey, what can I say? I'm not a very complicated person.

Then again, I've played just about every gender and sexuality in the book. I guess you can say my imagination's a bit... .... .... active.

[Naheal]

And I'll be treated... better? I'm not sure what you're arguing for here.

Since when does different = better?

I'd wager a guess that half the time someone sees someone treat them differently than another, they think that they're treating the other person better.

This is almost never the case. Do I treat women differently than men? Here, let me rephrase this so that it's something that's more true...

Do I treat each person I run into differently? Yes. How do I know how to treat someone? Comes out as I get to know them. Do I treat any one better than any other? Generally not. The only time I treat someone poorly is if someone does something to lose my respect.

[Bir]

Don't lie Swerto, we all know the truth.

[Shadowspeak]

Bir, I keep thinking that elf on your avatar is holding a joint...

[Thrysta]

Last I heard, Thrysta has first dibs on this. STRANGLETHORN HO!

"Your totem of the wild...it's so...so..."

((
I remember writing something along those lines to shame you for some forgotten reason...
...and the thread got like 2,000 hits.

/shudder
)))

[Thalevia]

What's your basis of comparison. IF you have never played a male. Do you know what different feels like?

[edit] On a related note but not just for Thal.

What I want to know. Is why when someone asks -why- those of use play male characters do, do. And we respond, those who do NOT, Feel the need to jump in and attempt to invalidate our reasoning?
Why are women who have not and do not, threatened/ offended/ derisive?

Mainly based on the fact for the first 6 or 8 months I played, my guild thought I was a guy. When they found out different, their interactions with me never changed. I was still that tauren female hunter who fucked up kiting in UBRS, screwed around in MC with the other hunters doing some of the stupidest crap when we got bored, like spending all 5 hours talking about porn in the hunter channel instead of how to do pulls and making it our mission to kill our elemental shaman at every opportunity.

Maybe its because for the most part I don't play typically attractive avatars. Tauren and undead. My trolls came much later, as did the orc and the alliance never survived because the people in the beginning zones sucked much donkey ass. I can't even remember ever getting the "A/S/L pls" except on AOL when I was 12.

I honestly don't know why it is I have never seen any difference myself. Only thing, I just can't RP a male successfully so I stick with female avatars. Same problem I had in drama, I couldn't play a convincing male.

Might eventually end up with a lowbie belf male though, I love their hair.

[Bir]

Bir, I keep thinking that elf on your avatar is holding a joint...

He might roll a joint with his bandages, after all it's Bir we're talking about. /offtopiclolz?

[Syreena]

What I want to know. Is why when someone asks -why- those of use play male characters do, do. And we respond, those who do NOT, Feel the need to jump in and attempt to invalidate our reasoning?
Why are women who have not and do not, threatened/ offended/ derisive?

Why did I feel the need to jump in? Some posts here made it sound like all female players are treated horribly by every male player out there, and that's simply not true for everyone. It's a discussion. I was simply saying that I don't experience that. Just to give a different viewpoint, not to invalidate anyone's reasoning for playing a particular character. But yes, to invalidate the idea that all female players get treated like that.

Just a thought...maybe certain females get treated like they're helpless because of the way they act? I'm sure people respond differently to someone who is calm and focused, compared to someone who is giggly, flirty, and acting a lot more girly-girlish. Not saying anyone here acts like that exactly, but everyone is different. It only makes sense that everyone reacts differently to different personalities and behaviors.

Edit: Didn't mean that offensive at all! And Kovan doesn't come off as a giggly girly-girl type. So I can't imagine why some girls get treated like that and some don't. Maybe they're playing with dummies who don't know that girls can play video games? :D

[Bir]

I almost dug myself a grave, Syreena.

I'll let one of the more giggly girlish women do that though since I'm really not too offended at all.

Just remember it's one thing to say it and another thing to do it.

[Xaraphyne]

Since when does different = better?

I'd wager a guess that half the time someone sees someone treat them differently than another, they think that they're treating the other person better.

This is almost never the case. Do I treat women differently than men? Here, let me rephrase this so that it's something that's more true...

Do I treat each person I run into differently? Yes. How do I know how to treat someone? Comes out as I get to know them. Do I treat any one better than any other? Generally not. The only time I treat someone poorly is if someone does something to lose my respect.

I'm just not really sure what direction you're trying to go in responding to me, since my point was that I have never had the terribly negative experiences for being female that other women seem to have had. I've never played a guy but I have been mistaken for one until something was said that warranted me correcting them, and I never noticed any significant difference in the way I was treated. Definitely not one that would make me think I was being treated better before I corrected them. All I'm saying is I haven't seen this behavior that has deeply affected some others.

Also, since I'm not acting threatened/offended/derisive, I'll refrain from commenting on that.

[Thrysta]

((
...I don't treat Thalevia and Syreena differently because they are female.
I treat them differently because Thal is a warlock and Syr is a rogue, and
thus my natural enemies.
))

[Irontoe]

Has anyone mentioned the redundancy present in the title?

[Aetheril]

I find this entire conversation to be interesting considering that every time I've RPed a character, male or female, sexual preference has not entered my mind.

I'm not sure if it is because I naturally don't care about it, or if I just assume that I'm straight therefore all my characters should be, but seeing the amount of thought that people put into this aspect of their characters actually makes me feel alienated a bit.

Precisely my sentiment on the issue. I mean...should I be worried about the myriad of orientation details with my characters? Nearly all of my RP is purely asexual. It makes me feel alienated as well because I look at people making a big deal about ERP-related issues when I really have no interest.

I really can't seem to make sex contribute to my character development, so I stick to other stuff...like killing people, political intrigue, and issues with budding insanity. If you guys can make ERP an actual contribution to your character and the plot, more power to you, I guess. Honestly, it's a skill I lack.

In the mentime, I'm intent to break some stereotypes. Perhaps its time for me, as a straight guy, to start playing a straight female character. I suppose I could attempt that...and yet it will just be another personality and plot-development game. I just can't get into ERP, not in WoW where my characters are too focused on killing the big evil baddies and/or making their fortunes to worry about getting it on in Silvermoon.

And...another thing. As a straight guy to other straight guys...why do you find lesbian interactions attractive? You're just peeping. They'll never be yours. Never. They like each other, not you. Damn over-rationalization always spoils that for me.

[Tyrill]

Oh, good, so, being a male playing a gay male is okay?

I'm safe. ^_^

Also, this entire thread is slightly entertaining. Does it really matter who (or what) is on the other side? Really? If you are really that concerned about who is on the other side of your RP then you are doing it wrong. Crossing the thin line of separating Real Life from RP.

My two cents.

As for ERP, whatever floats your boat. If you don't like it? Fine. If you do like it? Fine. Why does everyone really have to be so vocal about every little matter? Unless it comes up in your RP, you should be discussing it with the person you are RPing with in an OOC manner. No one is going to force you into it.

Just let the matter go. Really. It's pretty old.

[Fhenrir]

Also, this entire thread is slightly entertaining. Does it really matter who (or what) is on the other side? Really? If you are really that concerned about who is on the other side of your RP then you are doing it wrong. Crossing the thin line of separating Real Life from RP.

In some cases I would agree it doesn't matter what's on the other side, but on the flip side of the coin roleplaying in general is something people do for fun. Anything people do for fun is going to be more enjoyable with someone they like, so it's only natural to put thought into the actual person behind the screen.

It's similar to the fact that while I don't necessarily need to know who I'm playing any other video game with, it becomes much more enjoyable when I know it's somebody I actually like. That said, I have much more fun roleplaying with someone I like doing other things with as well. If I hate talking to somebody OOC, why would I want to spend time doing something with their character?


Just my take on the matter.

[Malakim]

In some cases I would agree it doesn't matter what's on the other side, but on the flip side of the coin roleplaying in general is something people do for fun. Anything people do for fun is going to be more enjoyable with someone they like, so it's only natural to put thought into the actual person behind the screen.

It's similar to the fact that while I don't necessarily need to know who I'm playing any other video game with, it becomes much more enjoyable when I know it's somebody I actually like. That said, I have much more fun roleplaying with someone I like doing other things with as well. If I hate talking to somebody OOC, why would I want to spend time doing something with their character?


Just my take on the matter.

A damn lie you hate me, but you still talk to me.

[Fhenrir]

I wouldn't call what we do talking, Mal.

[Tyrill]

In some cases I would agree it doesn't matter what's on the other side, but on the flip side of the coin roleplaying in general is something people do for fun. Anything people do for fun is going to be more enjoyable with someone they like, so it's only natural to put thought into the actual person behind the screen.

It's similar to the fact that while I don't necessarily need to know who I'm playing any other video game with, it becomes much more enjoyable when I know it's somebody I actually like. That said, I have much more fun roleplaying with someone I like doing other things with as well. If I hate talking to somebody OOC, why would I want to spend time doing something with their character?


Just my take on the matter.

Mister Fhenny, may I call you that? Good.

To each their own. I can completely understand where you are coming from. I usually avoid people I dislike OOC as well. But what if you didn't know if someone you are RPing with is an alt of this person you do not like? Say you have RPed with this person for a few weeks?

Would you suddenly stop all RP if and when you find out if this person behind the character is one you despise OOC?

This is why I, usually, keep myself separated. Sure, I may not like someone OOC. But I am not usually interacting with them in that manner. I am interacting with them through a medium. And if this medium tends to befriend the other, meh?

I hate to admit it, but I have done this before. I know some people who do not like me OOC but they love some of my other characters. And, to my knowledge, they never realize I am who I am.

[Xaraphyne]

Would you suddenly stop all RP if and when you find out if this person behind the character is one you despise OOC?

I have to say I probably would. There aren't many people I dislike, but those I do are for good reason, and if it hasn't come through their RP yet that doesn't mean it's not there. Then again, if it was just something small that I disliked the person for, and I had seen a different side of them through their RP, my opinion could very well change to grudging respect if not better.

[Tyrill]

I have to say I probably would. There aren't many people I dislike, but those I do are for good reason, and if it hasn't come through their RP yet that doesn't mean it's not there. Then again, if it was just something small that I disliked the person for, and I had seen a different side of them through their RP, my opinion could very well change to grudging respect if not better.

But see, this is crossing that line of keeping yourself apart from your character. Maybe this topic is meant for another thread, but I see that keeping your IRL self and feelings towards others should be kept separate from those that your character feels. Unless you are playing yourself. And you get wrapped up in what your character does.

I step away from my computer, I continue on, leaving it, the drama, the characters behind.

Edit: I have enough RL drama/issues to worry about. XD

[Fhenrir]

Would you suddenly stop all RP if and when you find out if this person behind the character is one you despise OOC?

In this case, I'd say it would likely lead into me discussing it with this person or reevaluating my opinion of that person on a personal level and deciding what I wanted to do from there. Most likely I'd end up with another friend in that case... but I suppose I've held a couple stupid grudges in my day.


This is why I, usually, keep myself separated. Sure, I may not like someone OOC. But I am not usually interacting with them in that manner. I am interacting with them through a medium. And if this medium tends to befriend the other, meh?

I can see it from this side, without a doubt. I suppose I myself don't find the need to separate myself from my actions in the game quite so "professionally", as it were. I have in the past, but I've found it generally more entertaining when I get to know someone as a person at the same time our characters are interacting.

[Tyrill]

In this case, I'd say it would likely lead into me discussing it with this person or reevaluating my opinion of that person on a personal level and deciding what I wanted to do from there. Most likely I'd end up with another friend in that case... but I suppose I've held a couple stupid grudges in my day.



I can see it from this side, without a doubt. I suppose I myself don't find the need to separate myself from my actions in the game quite so "professionally", as it were. I have in the past, but I've found it generally more entertaining when I get to know someone as a person at the same time our characters are interacting.

Well, the only reason it may seem that I am "professionally" separating myself is because, years and years ago when I began RPing back in High School through chatrooms, I found myself getting attached to someone. Of course, I was a dumb teenager with my own little list of problems that may have lead to it, but that is besides the point. ^_^

Many years later and what not, it isn't the case. So, the stern sort of angle I am getting at with all of this is only because I went through it. It isn't nice feelings.

But, let me step back a moment. I have forgotten something. There are a few people will avoid like the plague for a few reasons. No matter which character I am on. And the reasons normally relate to NOT knowing the difference between IC feelings and OOC feelings. Borderline stalker, I'm watching you through the window while you shower, sort of stalker. These people, I do avoid.

Now, saying all this, it does not mean I do not mingle with people OOCly, I do. I love quite a few people on here, having never known or interacted with their characters. But, just because I like this person does not mean my character would like theirs.

Argh! I am so derailing this thread. I apologize.

[Tyrill]

Has anyone mentioned the redundancy present in the title?

...What?

[opalexian]

Women are always threatened by other women, like cats.

Think: Highschool


Edits: But when women think you're a man they rub all over you.. And if you're like me, and you don't mind women rubbing on you.. Well then. That explains itself doesn't it. Like tee-hee gurlz in instances thinking I'm so hawt. Ehehe. They also think if they kiss up to me I might give them things, I won't, of course, but who doesn't like a good ass kissing?

And if you're allergic to women you will attract them like the plague and be covered in them!

What?

[Yichimet]

...What?

I think it's in the phrase "Gay Blood Elf men." Actually, you might even be able to remove the "men" and still have the redundancy. :p

[Tyrill]

I think it's in the phrase "Gay Blood Elf men." Actually, you might even be able to remove the "men" and still have the redundancy. :p

Ah...right. : /

[Rand_Shea]

People play the characters that interest them the most, simple as that... I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt that there's more to said characters going through the player's mind than "LOL, I'M GONNA HAVE GAY RP CYBERZ", though.

[Boulderdash]

People play the characters that interest them the most, simple as that...

Or, y'know, the characters that were available to them in a pre-leveled 60 state on a sibling's account. <_< >_>

All in all I'd say Fhen's pretty much on the money here. Sure, in a true RP situation, the ideal situation is to completely separate the character and the player. For chance encounters, that works well. Even for people who are just basic acquaintances. Let's face it though... almost all characters, and some would argue the best ones, have at least some of the player in them. Ask any real actor and they'll tell you the same exact thing. The easiest way to "Get in character" is to put yourself in the character's mindset... not only will you take on their aspects, they take on some of yours.

That's why it's easy to tell when it's a guy playing a chick, and vice versa (Yes, ladies, if we care enough to pay attention, we can tell. Gay or otherwise.)

My question is why would anyone treat a woman differently when it comes to the game. I don't care if you're a man or a woman. If you screw up that pull one more time, I swear to everything holy, I will end you...

:cool:

[Lisbet]

I don't care if you're a man or a woman. If you screw up that pull one more time, I swear to everything holy, I will end you...:cool:



I am stealing this..

[Aetheril]

Maybe the issue of male players giving female avatars special treament isn't always an issue of them considering the female too weak to do it on their own. That sentiment may be in part a feminist construct..not necessarily untrue, but it's not always the intent.

I think a number of guys will instinctively look at a woman and think "ooh, a potential mate", and try to be nice in order to win her over. At least, those are the sort of vague feelings that occur to me. I know my date is perfectly capable of opening a door and paying for part of the meal on her own. I do it for her because I'm hoping I will earn her favor. I'm much more concerned about her looking down on me as an unworthy date to even think about looking down on her.

Simple as that. But perhaps I'm not enough of a chauvenist pig to properly understand that I should be treating a woman special because she needs all the help she can get, and couldn't possibly survive without her man.

There are nuances here beyond that...don't always take special treatment as someone looking down on you. Some guys (myself included) are eager to please someone who is seemingly of the opposite gender, and will do anything, even for someone out of our league.

I know preferential treatment based on gender is sexist. That's why I avoid it in WoW...I rarely, if ever, give such treatment, and its based on if I enjoy playing with the person, not if they're female or male. Ironically enough, however, it happens all the time in the real world. I'm sure we're all aware of the customary "chivalry" a man is expected to undertake in courtship, at least as far as opening doors and picking up the bill goes.

You have to forgive men sometimes. The preferential treatment is almost hard-wired, I think. More along the lines the innate desire to attract a mate than anything else...you show that you are a provider.

And of course, that can come accross as condescending. And certainly, that's probably the case with some men...

I can't say there's much proof for what I've said, but at least to me this is what I imagine when I catch myself being extra-nice to a woman for no justifiable reason.

[opalexian]

Maybe the issue of male players giving female avatars special treament isn't always an issue of them considering the female too weak to do it on their own. That sentiment may be in part a feminist construct..not necessarily untrue, but it's not always the intent.

I think a number of guys will instinctively look at a woman and think "ooh, a potential mate", and try to be nice in order to win her over. At least, those are the sort of vague feelings that occur to me. I know my date is perfectly capable of opening a door and paying for part of the meal on her own. I do it for her because I'm hoping I will earn her favor. I'm much more concerned about her looking down on me as an unworthy date to even think about looking down on her.

Simple as that. But perhaps I'm not enough of a chauvenist pig to properly understand that I should be treating a woman special because she needs all the help she can get, and couldn't possibly survive without her man.

There are nuances here beyond that...don't always take special treatment as someone looking down on you. Some guys (myself included) are eager to please someone who is seemingly of the opposite gender, and will do anything, even for someone out of our league.

I know preferential treatment based on gender is sexist. That's why I avoid it in WoW...I rarely, if ever, give such treatment, and its based on if I enjoy playing with the person, not if they're female or male. Ironically enough, however, it happens all the time in the real world. I'm sure we're all aware of the customary "chivalry" a man is expected to undertake in courtship, at least as far as opening doors and picking up the bill goes.

You have to forgive men sometimes. The preferential treatment is almost hard-wired, I think. More along the lines the innate desire to attract a mate than anything else...you show that you are a provider.

And of course, that can come accross as condescending. And certainly, that's probably the case with some men...

I can't say there's much proof for what I've said, but at least to me this is what I imagine when I catch myself being extra-nice to a woman for no justifiable reason.

I like to think that I can tell the difference between chivalry, polite male attentions, and 'LUL GURL GO MAEK ME SAMMICH' tho. When I raided I got a lot of the latter, usually in jest, but I know that for some people a joke is still a half-truth - they think it's funny because they partially mean it or say that sort of thing IRL and think it's funny to say that to a strong woman. I don't want to imply that all guys online are like this because I know they aren't, espcially as they get older. However, this is a reality for a good number of raiding women - you just learn to grow a thicker skin, and I guess for some women, pull up your skirt and cry (as they say.)

I started this this afternoon, and if I'd finished it then I'm sure it would have been infinitely more intelligent. I'll probably remember the rest of what I was gonna say when I hit 'submit'...

[Tillna]

Lets see here...

Till had a straight relation, but considers her Mate dead.

Frieya is to crazy. Flirt with her, I dare you.

My druid is to timid.

But, I can see why you would RP a gay character or a straight one. For example, I am male. Shut up Opal. I can't be a woman, but most of my characters are.

None of my chars had to be their sex, except for Shigana and Anias.

cause women are fuckin evil, HAR HAR HAR /SARCASM, ALL IN GOOD FUN.

But, my characters carer more about your orientation. and I don't care if you play male or female if you are man or woman. you could be a gnome, which is much creepier.

Hur hur hur.

Also, Sea Turtles.

[Aetheril]

I like to think that I can tell the difference between chivalry, polite male attentions, and 'LUL GURL GO MAEK ME SAMMICH' tho. When I raided I got a lot of the latter, usually in jest, but I know that for some people a joke is still a half-truth - they think it's funny because they partially mean it or say that sort of thing IRL and think it's funny to say that to a strong woman. I don't want to imply that all guys online are like this because I know they aren't, espcially as they get older. However, this is a reality for a good number of raiding women - you just learn to grow a thicker skin, and I guess for some women, pull up your skirt and cry (as they say.)

I started this this afternoon, and if I'd finished it then I'm sure it would have been infinitely more intelligent. I'll probably remember the rest of what I was gonna say when I hit 'submit'...

Nah, I get exactly where you're coming from. I'm just seeing a bit of a discrepancy in the justification for preferential treatment...so I thought I'd throw in my two cents, as a guy here.

Not that preferential treatment is ever excusable, it's just part of an instinctive mindset, I think, that's hard to break out of. And I'm sure the signs are a lot more obvious as to intent than I make them out to be.

[Kaliera]

I like to think that I can tell the difference between chivalry, polite male attentions, and 'LUL GURL GO MAEK ME SAMMICH' tho. When I raided I got a lot of the latter, usually in jest, but I know that for some people a joke is still a half-truth - they think it's funny because they partially mean it or say that sort of thing IRL and think it's funny to say that to a strong woman. I don't want to imply that all guys online are like this because I know they aren't, espcially as they get older. However, this is a reality for a good number of raiding women - you just learn to grow a thicker skin, and I guess for some women, pull up your skirt and cry (as they say.)

I started this this afternoon, and if I'd finished it then I'm sure it would have been infinitely more intelligent. I'll probably remember the rest of what I was gonna say when I hit 'submit'...


The type of guy who tends to say things like "get back to the kitchen and make me a sandwich" would likely be just as quick to call one of the male raiders gay, or insult one of their mothers, or jab at the tank for not mitigating enough damage during a parry gib. I know that every female gamer I've ever grouped up with, or been in vent with, tends to be treated as if they're "just another one of the guys". Expecting to be treated differently based on gender seems a little silly, not that I'm insinuating that's your thoughts on the matter.

I'm sure Xaraphyne could tell you how vulgar I can be when I'm chatting with friends I've known for years, and it doesn't change one bit once she joins the channel. :]

[Arte]

Not sure if my two cents will matter, but I feel sorta responsible since I think I was the one to make Carm go, "WTF?" in the first place. (Also warning it is nearly 4 am and I left my sanity at 2)

When I rolled Arte, I had no intention to roleplay. I wanted to make a male belf because I liked how the males looked alot more than the females. He was originally a twink. He was a secret character since I had male friends who would give me shit everytime I rolled a male toon.

I like to write stories and create characters outside of WoW settings and I had an idea for a character I thought about testing out. So when Arte had a slow night, I decided to find some arrpee. I threw in the gay-ness on a whim as a sort of test. I wanted to see if I could play a convincing male, and I wanted to see the reactions to a gay character.

I literally met Diirak the first night I ever RP'd Arte, and with the pulled-out-of-my-ass personality I had thrown together he was a hit. So I kept working on him. Being the type of person I am, I took the idea and ran with it. I worked up a quick history and tried to flesh out his personality some. I've had alot of fun and have since 'come out of the closet' so to speak, letting my old friends (the guys) know, hey I'm playing a male toon. He has buttsecks. I am having a blast. Bite me. ;)

Yes, I've always been that one to get angry at being belittled for being a woman. And I've also always been the stupid one to point out "I"m not a dude. I'm a chick. I just kicked ass in this BG. Shut up." And I've had to put up with my share of, "i don't belive you; prove it in vent!"

But I've also had the luck to make real male friends who treat me just like another one of the guys. I'm sure I get some special treatment, but I'd like to think its because I'm an awesome person, not because I have bewbs. I can dish as much shit as I take and any of the guys can tell you, I could make a sailor cry if you could listen to me in vent when I pvp. Or at least make you laugh. Does this make me some tomboy who is trying to rail against femininity? No. It makes me a foul mouthed bitch who likes to wear pink and will do her hair inbetween queue times for Warsong.

Have I noticed I am treated differently when I play Arte as oppose to Sakiyah or any other of my female toons? Only sometimes. I find most guys assume you're a guy, regardless of your toon. Is that why I rolled Arte? Only partly. I did want to see it from the other side, but not out of any vindictive "treat me like a lesser will you! I'll grow a dick then!" sorta mentality. More of a, "I bet no one hits on me now haha" which I was totally wrong on. Arte gets hit on more females than I even remember. @.@

But my biggest reason? Mostly, I wanted to stare at a sexy male belf while I was killing things.





...what? The guys can say they roll female toons to stare at tight asses and I can't say the same thing? You sexist jerks! ;P

[Anthek]

Heh, I remember you telling me the same stuff when you revealed you were Arte.

<3 Arte/Kante/Sakiyah/ND/I don't know what to call you anymore XP

[opalexian]

The type of guy who tends to say things like "get back to the kitchen and make me a sandwich" would likely be just as quick to call one of the male raiders gay, or insult one of their mothers, or jab at the tank for not mitigating enough damage during a parry gib. I know that every female gamer I've ever grouped up with, or been in vent with, tends to be treated as if they're "just another one of the guys". Expecting to be treated differently based on gender seems a little silly, not that I'm insinuating that's your thoughts on the matter.

I'm sure Xaraphyne could tell you how vulgar I can be when I'm chatting with friends I've known for years, and it doesn't change one bit once she joins the channel. :]

I don't feel it's silly when they singled me out for it every time. I'm not really that sensitive about it, just wanted to bring that up as an example. I also got 'Shut up Cal, the men are talking' to lots of laughter...they knew full well I wouldn't listen tho. My point is that for some guys, approving of that humor comes from somewhere for some guys. Others, not so much. The main instigator of 'make me a sammich' was this guy with a thick southern accent who was in the Army (he's since been deployed :( ) but if I got bothered for some reason he usually pointed out that his wife outranks him. ;) I usually got a good laugh out of it too, and perhaps showing my own feminist bias, I got a millisecond of superiority out of it too >_>

I guess my point's point is that a woman who isn't so bold and strong-willed could easily come into this world we're living in and feel immediately under attack. I am loathe to do this because I really hate the pull up skirt and cry women, but I can see where they might decide that that would be the best route to how to getting by in-game. It just gives a bad name to the rest of us. Or it's actually a guy who's golddigging and you've all been had. :D

Oh, this also helps illustrate my point-


None of my chars had to be their sex, except for Shigana and Anias.

cause women are fuckin evil, HAR HAR HAR /SARCASM, ALL IN GOOD FUN.

-snip-

Also, Sea Turtles.

See? Another fine example. He makes a joke, yet inside he is angry and bitter and lonely and dateless, so it's a half-truth. Sea turtles won't save you now, Mister.

I WENT THERE. *waits patiently for angry text messages* >; 3

[Tillna]

*Crais*

IT'S TRUE.

In the end, does it matter?

Not really. Sometimes it asthetic, sometimes its an RP idea.

And sometimes it's opal being stupid

[Kaliera]

I don't feel it's silly when they singled me out for it every time. I'm not really that sensitive about it, just wanted to bring that up as an example. I also got 'Shut up Cal, the men are talking' to lots of laughter...they knew full well I wouldn't listen tho. My point is that for some guys, approving of that humor comes from somewhere for some guys. Others, not so much. The main instigator of 'make me a sammich' was this guy with a thick southern accent who was in the Army (he's since been deployed :( ) but if I got bothered for some reason he usually pointed out that his wife outranks him. ;) I usually got a good laugh out of it too, and perhaps showing my own feminist bias, I got a millisecond of superiority out of it too >_>


Always being singled out is a different case obviously, but I'm inclined to think that one simply notices themselves being pointed out more than anyone else. On that note, even if one is truly singled out as the blunt of teasing most of the time, it happens quite often to guys as well. It's not a sexist thing, it's a social thing. People love to joke and jab, and often it's a kind of...initiation, for lack of a better term. I'll poke fun at almost anyone I come in contact with, because if I can't joke around with them, it's VERY unlikely that I'll even care to spend time with them. People who take things too seriously tend to not be much fun.

On that note, I also jab at myself quite often, so I'm not just being an asshole. :]

[e] Also, the fact that this military guy would be willing to point out that his wife outranks him should be proof enough that he's just poking fun. Like me, he's willing to poke fun at even himself, so I can't fathom him being truly serious when saying 'make me a sammich', though I'm sure you understand that.

[Rand_Shea]

I don't treat people differently unless I get the impression that they somehow need to be in order for us to "get along", regardless if they're male or female.

Usually if I have to treat them differently, I don't get along with them, therefor I'll pretty much go out of my way to not deal with them at all, or say "fuck it" and not bother with giving them the type of special consideration they so desperately want.

If I want to put myself through an emotional and mental meat-grinder just to please everyone with delicate sensibilities and special conditions to get their so called 'respect' and good will.... I can jump in my car and drive 60 miles south to see people who are more than willing to drive someone else into the dirt just so they can feel better about themselves.

[Kaliera]

I don't treat people differently unless I get the impression that they somehow need to be in order for us to "get along", regardless if they're male or female.

Usually if I have to treat them differently, I don't get along with them, therefor I'll pretty much go out of my way to not deal with them at all, or say "fuck it" and not bother with giving them the type of special consideration they so desperately want.


This this this, sweet jesus this.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

I like chivalry....


*runs and hides*

[Yichimet]

I like to treat you all the same.

NERDS!

:D

[LorFedorovic]

I... play gay male blood elves because... well... I AM a gay male blood elf... in my head. >_> *shrugs* Do with that what you will.

[Kaliera]

I like to treat you all the same.

NERDS!

:D

This coming from a guy roleplaying a bipedal bovine. Who does that, seriously? Gawd.

[Yichimet]

I'VE HAD THE DREAM SINCE I WAS FIVE.

You always gotta call me out on that, huh?

Like the above poster, in my head I AM A GIANT COW MAN WITH GREEN SWIRLIES ON MY HANDS. Also, it's a much better world in my head...

[LorFedorovic]

*nods* People RP the game for a reason. There must be something about being that character that you like or desire otherwise it wouldn't be much fun. >_>

*points at her sadomasochist* See... I WISH I could be sadomasochistic but I'm such a wuss.

I ALSO wish I could seduce people and steal their mana... but... *shrugs* X3

[Kaliera]

I'VE HAD THE DREAM SINCE I WAS FIVE.

You always gotta call me out on that, huh?

Like the above poster, in my head I AM A GIANT COW MAN WITH GREEN SWIRLIES ON MY HANDS. Also, it's a much better world in my head...

Screw green swirlies, blue sparklies for life.

Edit: Oh wait, moonkin have green swirlies. Carry on, gent.

[Xiphus]

*nods* People RP the game for a reason. There must be something about being that character that you like or desire otherwise it wouldn't be much fun. >_>

*points at her sadomasochist* See... I WISH I could be sadomasochistic but I'm such a wuss.

I ALSO wish I could seduce people and steal their mana... but... *shrugs* X3

I RP my rogue the way he is because of two things. One, I'm naturally curious, so when my character's idling away, he lets his curiosity run, which is also why he is strangely drawn to cats. I am even considering on writing a story on how he tries to herd cats.

Second reason is because I really like the concept of a high precision weapon in humanoid form, which is why my character's does things the way he is portrayed when he is out trying to kill things. Unfortunately, I can't really go around doing premeditated murder in real life, so my character is a true-blue assassin in-character.

[Grimfury]

The type of guy who tends to say things like "get back to the kitchen and make me a sandwich" would likely be just as quick to call one of the male raiders gay, or insult one of their mothers, :]

Quit talking about Malakim, he's not here to defend himself!!!;)

[Bir]

Quit talking about Malakim, he's not here to defend himself!!!;)

Sure he is, somewhere.

[Styxen]

If I don't tell them to make me a sandwich then they might think they have a choice in the matter.

besides I am sure there is someone here who will make me a sandwich.

[Kovan]

I have minions for that. If you ask really nice, I might deign to have one sent over.

[Setrema]

I've played women, and I have played men...

I prefer to play women because I can RP them better.

Every man I play just seems....gay.

[Korrin]

Every man I play just seems....gay.

Well if it's a blood elf you are playing it right.

[Elek Quentin]

I've been RPing characters online for longer than I really want to admit. I started in AOL chatrooms, specifically "Spacefleet" if I remember it correctly. It was an old, Star Trek-ish themed RP that had some sense of moderation and advancement if your posts were very good to the role you were placed within. Every week I ended up assigned a totally different role than the one before. The change of pace was always interesting.

My first MMO was Ultima Online, and technically, I even RPed religiously on Diablo II. My main focus had always been to create a character that was believable and separate from myself. The first female character I role played online was "Tefaria", an Amazon Hunter from D2. While not the most RP-friendly or encouraging environments that are out there, I managed to find and consistently group together with people who held a desire to RP as well.

I can attest to the suggestion that gamers treat people totally different, based on the gender they believe you are. I started to look more into this idea in those Diablo II days but didn't really get a feel for it until I moved on into Everquest. When I was playing EQ, I had actually created a totally separate ooc identities for myself. I had a male and female character, each presumably played by the gender of the character itself. While I refrained as much as I could from drifting ooc when able, there were times when it was unavoidable.

It took some thought, and creative role playing on the spot, to imagine and assume the role of a modern day (teenage at the time) girl, along with where she'd been, what she knows and what she wants our of 'her' life. Anyhow, picking up on the mannerism differences that I needed to use was the most difficult thing to do first. Generally it was through quietly watching, finding things in common about even what we would consider the simplest things... grammar, punctuation, coherency... even little smiley faces or other emoticons in ooc speaking.

My English courses in High School often involved many writing assignments. I had been in "gifted" or "accelerated" classes since 3rd grade. It was the instructors' job to "think outside the box" and find different ways to teach and present the material they were given. They promoted creativity, generally in the sense of these open ended assignments. High school was a rich source of examples to pull from. It was fairly regular that we wrote short stories to share among our peers - to critique them, make suggestions, and so forth. Being on a physical level, it was very easy to tell who wrote what piece (because they handed it to you) and to notice the styles used among various writers. One of the best things that I have brought out of those particular experiences was the ability to hold believable dialog in my writing.

I focused on my curiousity in EQ during one of the summers along the way. I felt I had a solid feel of what I needed to play a believable female, and spent time back and forth between my male and female toons to see how the world of gamers reacted to them. It did not take long at all to discover that the differences were almost like night and day. Everything from asking for help with a particular quest, needing a few coin to make an expensive purchase or even someone to cast a few beneficial spells on you... all of it varied on who and what they thought you were.

For example, I had at one point, asked the same person for a particular buff (that required a fairly inexpensive reagent) while on my male. He was immediately reluctant to take the time away from whatever he was doing to offer his talents. I had approached him IC, introduced myself, and asked him if he could perform the magics. Eventually he agreed, but not until I had agreed to pay him well over several times the cost of the reagent. Not ten minutes later, I visited him on my little (at the time) Vah Shir Shamaness and asked for the same spell. I changed my approach... less political, much less bargaining... more friendly and a lot less business. It did not take much more than a smile and a brief bit of flirting before he provided me the spell. At no cost. Still curious, I went off and got myself killed and returned to him within another ten minutes, grumbling something about whatever it was that killed me, apologized for bothering him again but asked if I could get another. He did... and again at no cost. I ended up tipping him more than I paid on my male toon after he'd cast the spell.

Later on, I expanded my little 'research project' and tested people's patience. I explained myself as a fairly new player and while I was grouped with them, deliberately made a mistake or two that sometimes, but not always, resulted in a rather catastrophic wipe. Four out of five times, I was just quickly booted after one or two 'mistakes' while on my male toon and only once on the female (and it was explained, almost apologetically, that they really needed to get it done and had a friend who was more experienced offering to help). In any scenario, I apologized for the mistake, asked for a little more explanation on what had to be done and when. Even the explanations themselves varied widely. My male persona was usually given a very cut and dry rundown of the pure basics. My female persona on the other hand, was told about where to stand to avoid certain effects, what spells would probably be best to prepare, etc.

Deliberate Roleplaying, not questing or the like, was a similar experience. No one really ever wanted to come to get to know my male character. No matter how polite or sincere I made him, it was like pulling teeth to actually get involved with people who were already knit into their own groups. It took well over several months of fairly regular grouping with people before I could really RP with them. On the female side of it, I could weasel my way into a niche in less than a week, receive invitations to private events, even get a guild invite if I so wanted one.

Noticing that I wasn't getting -anywhere- on my male, and not wanting to struggle an uphill battle by myself, I eventually abandoned him and focused on my shamaness. I spent more time RPing than I did grouping and had the character enter a sort of relationship with one of the people 'she' regularly spent time with. While 'she' truly desired guy#1, his character was still in mourning for the death of his prior wife and made a promise that he would take no other lover until some task was completed in her memory (one of the epic class quests). While crying and upset, guy#2 sought to comfort her and spent much of his time trying to calm her down. My character made it -very- clear that she was infatuated with guy#1 and did not see #2 the same way. While she would admit that she respects him and appreciated everything that he has done for her, that she just did not think it would work out.

It would be a half of a year before she finally let guy#2 take the place she held for guy#1.

This however, was not the most eye opening example my curiousity was able to find. I had two characters in a yahoo group forum RP that entered at about the same time. A female and a male, each totally different than the other. I kept the same ooc persona for the female and played the male's ooc as my own. I posted regularly to the boards on both characters for several years, always with largely detailed posts. My characters each found their own groups; the male was an exception, he was a half elf druid and kinda an introvert while the female was a brash, quick to temper and action, no-nonsense, no-waiting sort of flame. I played her as a person who lost her home in a siege, vowing that she would not allow it to happen again. In such, she sought audience with the city's leaders and pledge her blade, book and blood to the defense and safeguarding of the city's people. My druid on the other hand, became an adviser to the ruling court and took towards the keeping of the surrounding forest and the natural magics that empowered the city.

I knew the forum's owner on a personal level and over time, we did eventually come into a relationship of our own. One of her characters fell in love with my druid and the pair had a child of their own. The group was active for several years and it wasn't until the group was shutting down that I eventually told her that the other character was also my own. Even though we RPed and spoke nearly every day, she was honestly shocked with the news. To date, none of the other 50 regulars are any the wiser.

I think I'm losing the whole meaning of this post...

In fact... I think I already forgot what the whole thread was about.

Rather than going on with whatever I was ranting with, I'll just throw in my two cents:

- People react to what they see and how they interpret the other person.

- People use the Internet as a way to explore their fantasies through anonymity (heard of Second Life?).

- People use the Internet as a way to explore their fantasies with minimal or no consequence.

- People will often draw conclusions and come to believe what they want to.

- Treatment is not equal between sexes.

- People are gullible.

To date though, I've never RPed a gay or bi male, and very few of the straight guys I know personally have. I believe this is probably due to a sense of homophobia. But... as it's not uncommon knowledge, a lot of guys have fantasies about lesbians *innocent whistle*. I wouldn't at all put it past someone to rp as a girl in order to get a 'closer look'. ;)

On a side note, all of my characters on WoW are straight. Lithia though, is the inexperienced sort who has not had the time or interest to do anything at all, Elek is about as straight as they go, Zancha loves teh cawk *cough*, Chavis is a bull of a tauren who has been baked in the sun a little too long, but at least he loves himself a fine well curved woman. I suppose I should challenge myself into the alternatives and see if I can actually play a believable character. I did play a lesbian in a sci-fi game once, but in my own defense, it was mainly as a desire to ensure that the GM didn't try to set her up with some random male NPC like he had a track record for doing. Oh he tried, and when I told him that my character did NOT react the way he was trying to say, I remember him asking me specifically if she was a lesbian and the look of utter surprise and bewilderment when I told him yes. I don't know how he missed it, slipping in subtle invitations to some of the female npcs, careful touching of the hands and arms in conversation... maybe I did a terrible job at it. :O

I've practiced with another character elsewhere since then, and laughed in reading how absolutely -certain- people talk OOC among one another about how the character is "definitely played by a girl". It's amusing when they IM your male character OOC to tell you this. *snicker* This particular one is bi though... so perhaps the full fledged girls-only RP needs more work.

I try to go about 50/50 on the gender ratio when I play new games. Usually I'll start with a female character (I'll be honest, I like looking at something pretty) and take any help people want to throw at me as I learn my way around.

[Bir]

I like that post, Elek.

[Vyn]

...

I just read ALL FUCKING NINE pages of this after clicking on Lisbet's signature. I feel fairly entitled to inculde my own opinion on the matter.

I treat women differently. But only on a personal basis. Seriously, if you suck ass at the game...

I probably won't say anything. I fucking suck at this.

But if you ask for help, I'll let you know what's up, male or female.

Now, when I know someone is a woman IRL, I may give them slightly less, SLIGHLTY less, shit. Just ask Nhal and Annie. And Taldris. Sheeeeeet, no one can escape my wraaaaaath.

[Swerto]

Holy fucking shit mega necro.

[Raynell]

OH GOD ZOMBIE THREAD.

SHOOT IT SHOOT IT.

And to echo a statement on page one, perhaps for the same reason doodz play "elfbians."

[Vyn]

Posting on this wouldn't be a problem if, you know, the people who posted after me continued the discussion instead of derailing it into 'ZOMBIE THREAD'

Personally, I read this without knowing who half of the posters were, and so I thought it might be interesting to get the next generation's opinion on something, or see if some of the old timers still felt the same way.

[Raynell]

Honestly, this trend is incredibly typical, if not mainstream in current RP. My sister frequently RPs as a male character (not on WoW, but in general, and usually straight as far as I know, though her friends typically err towards the homosexual male character), and there are god knows how many guys playing women, straight or otherwise. It's not a problem as long as they're not trying to purposefully deceive anyone. I remember reading something on WoW.com regarding this matter. I oughta dig it up as well...

[Rethius]

All of my female characters have one purpose.

To make my friends feel uneasy.

[Irontoe]

I've RPed one female character ever; though I've made more female characters, this was the only one I got past level 10. She was an overweight night elf druid who spent nearly all of her adult life completely naked (but in moonkin form so no one noticed). She spent her free time grooming her feathers for fleas. She was also the investigative journalist who ultimately exposed Fordragon Imports and contributed directly to Irontoe's arrest.

[Vyn]

Oh yeah, one thing I neglected in my post above: Sexuality in WoW.

I haven't thought much about it, and when I make a character, I just kinda don't think about it. I have no interest in ARRPEEing sex.

However, I do hope to come across as a convincing woman/girl when I do play, so I kinda watch other people for it.

[Lurile]

I've RPed one female character ever; though I've made more female characters, this was the only one I got past level 10. She was an overweight night elf druid who spent nearly all of her adult life completely naked (but in moonkin form so no one noticed). She spent her free time grooming her feathers for fleas. She was also the investigative journalist who ultimately exposed Fordragon Imports and contributed directly to Irontoe's arrest.

Why ya gotta go for the chubbies man?

[Irontoe]

Why ya gotta go for the chubbies man?

I dunno. I figured there had to be a fat elf SOMEWHERE.

[Grev]

I remember reading something on WoW.com regarding this matter. I oughta dig it up as well...
I have a better article. (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/art-of-warcraft/epic-mounts-love.php)

[Yatokth]

I have a better article. (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/art-of-warcraft/epic-mounts-love.php)

I have an even better one. (http://kanyelicious.appspot.com/http://wow-tng.org/showthread.php?p=320776#post320776)

[Rethius]

I dunno. I figured there had to be a fat elf SOMEWHERE.

Yeah, but what kind of elf sits on their ass all day and does nothing? Characters in the warcraft universe are constantly running about, fighting things and what not.


Though I... Suppose there are always exceptions.

[Malethia]

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc225/Kenori_Merrik/Necro.jpg

Anywho, I never did actually state my own opinion when this originally came up, so I guess I will now.

When I originally rolled Malethia, I had no choice on race obviously. I thought the male Belf models looked like bad DBZ knockoffs, so I decided to try playing a female. I thought it would also help me develop better skills at writing for female characters, which I had previously avoided.

I did swear that I would NOT be one of those men who made their female character a lesbian because they thought it would be hot. For a long while I stuck to my guns, but it was actually the course of RP that brought me to that point. So I went with it.

In retrospect, I completely regret dealing with relationship RP. It's one thing when it's with someone you know personally, or better yet have a RL relationship with, so that the story is nice and stable. That way, it becomes a background element and you can focus on the other stuff. When it's not however, you run the risk of wrapping your story up with someone who's going to be one of THOSE PEOPLE and simply wander off once the next flavor of the week shows up. I've had it happen to me again

And again

And again

And again

And again, so that my RP eventually consisted of me constantly trying to extract myself from yet another entanglement when the other party wandered off. I honestly feel that I all but wrecked my character by doing so, because it began to feel like she became nothing but a walking, whining broken heart. It didn't help that at the time I was going through my own personal troubles, so the entire period is just a jumbled wreck.

This is why I'll be rerolling Malethia yet again come Cataclysm. The priest is the character who's going to be taking the blame for all that crap (a story I need to finish writing), leaving Malethia to return to the character she was supposed to be before I let other people drag me into drama I should never have gotten started with.

[Rand_Shea]

And I thought I wrote textwalls... No wonder this thread died in June.

Anyway...

Relationship RP is something that people get too emotionally invested in. Instead of the character experiencing the problems of a relationship, it's the player, and a large amount of RP relationships are forged for the purpose of causing some drama at the moment or for people to have that tragic "breakup" plotpoint.

Personally I find "breakup and relationship drama RP" to be contrite, boring, and a general waste of time. Then again, I got sick of that back in my IRC days. I don't have much problem having my characters move on, because it's either they do that or they get axed because they're too much of a burden and no longer fun to play.

As for the OP and chick RPers playing dudes... Gay men have an effeminate stereotype that pretty much says they'll react to things similarly to the way a typical woman will react, and do things that typically is common trait amongst women. As such, it's probably pretty easy for some women to play gay men.

Personally I don't think I could play a gay guy... All my male characters, so far, are heterosexual, or in the case of a so far completely unleveled tauren warrior... completely incapable of sexual reproduction and thus has no sexual yearnings to draw. My female characters are all mostly heterosexual, though I haven't decided fully for most of them.

[Kovan]

Oh Sweet Monkey F*** . Let it DIE ALREADY. Seriously. This community has picked at this festering scab long enough, it worse than the great ERP debates on MG.
People rp race/class/gender/orientation XXXX Because it's FUN.
WE are all here to HAVE FUN.
Leave it alone Mnkay!?
Thankyou <3 <3 <3.

[Yatokth]

Relationship RP can be interesting, but not like a soap opera who-is-sleeping-with-whom bullshit, that's not interesting after about 20 seconds.

If it's weaved as an actual thematic and developing plot element within the context of the rest of both character's lives, it can be really cool, but it takes two good writers with active characters to do that, so I would not suggest going into a relationship RP with just anybody.

And for the love of god.

IC/OOC barrier.

Dur.

EDIT: I guess in a nutshell, cliches can be good plot devices and add to server lore if they're written well. Basically, good writers make good stories? Man, I'm so fucking insightful.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

Why did this come back?? Oh how to hide my shame and ignorance! (esp as a bigendered/bisexual person)

You know... half my characters suddenly became male after I tried out my first, Professor Leah. He was such a hit that I had to make more, does that mean men are like pokemon? Still though, I have never played a gay male, but my warlock was bisexual.

I have a feeling I'd do a piss poor job at playing a gay man, donno why. Probably because I always have an irresistable urge to woo females


I really don't have an opinion on this, nor do I want one. Not really something I bother to think about.

But I WILL suggest this one tidbit, directed mostly to any male players that may have had or are having women relationship problems:

Study these gay male belfs played by women very closely, their mannerisms, how they talk to each other, what little gestures they do for each other.

Therein may lie some hidden gems of insight. ;)

Skaf! Oh how I miss thee! He always gave such good yet humorous advice.


As another gay man who (occasionally) plays gay male characters, I often try to play Spot the Woman :D when my gay male character (on this server, baby paladin Talorios) encounters another. In my own experience - as always, your mileage may vary - I find that women are more successful at playing gay men than men are at playing lesbians; although I have to admit that most (not all, but most) of the gay male characters I've met that are played by women tend to be flaming queens. Butch it up, ladies. ;)


More good advice, though it's nearly two years old. /huggles Aph

[Ryoku]

Relationship RP can be interesting, but not like a soap opera who-is-sleeping-with-whom bullshit, that's not interesting after about 20 seconds.

If it's weaved as an actual thematic and developing plot element within the context of the rest of both character's lives, it can be really cool, but it takes two good writers with active characters to do that, so I would not suggest going into a relationship RP with just anybody.

And for the love of god.

IC/OOC barrier.

Dur.

EDIT: I guess in a nutshell, cliches can be good plot devices and add to server lore if they're written well. Basically, good writers make good stories? Man, I'm so fucking insightful.

People are different in what they consider fun. Some people like Soap-Opera dramatic RP, and although I don't like it, I'm pretty much okay that they do, it's when that kind of RP is thrust upon me that I take annoyance to it.

Live and let live, you know?

However, although this is a necro'd thread, this topic is obviously one people are interested in talking about. Kovan isn't changing that by attempting to defend herself and informing people for the 132nd time that she is the target of the discussion and it's hurting her feelings. Let people talk about what they want to talk about, and if you don't like it you can kindly... What's that word?

Not look at the thread.

kthxbye <3

[Kovan]

Whoa whoa.. I'm not hurt. It's just kind of been done to death from a zillion different angles. IF you actually go through and read the thread from the start.

Granted it used to be a sore point as when I was actually outed within the community as beign a female ( after about a year of playing here) there was alot of mockerey, and unkindness. There are -still- alot of women who are snide, and somehow feeling more than borderline threatened. Still don't get that one..

My post was more of a tongue in cheek lighthearted attempt to divert incoming drama-lama, I'm an older wiser person these days, and my rp is my own. I find ongoing linear politics both boring and trite , give me violence, drama and with a healthy dash of sensuality ( All to be kept IC) , but what works for me, isn't for everyone! And THATS OK!

As I said before, when it alllll washes out, we are all here for our personal enjoyment, If you don't like it? Don't do it, and let the next guy enjoy thier happyfunpretendytiems in the way that suits them best.

As a humourous side note Kovan the character has been drug kicking and screaming onto the Het side of the fence as the love of his life developed a maj0r case of tittahs.
( And whomever thinks relationship rp is boring , lacks humour and intrest, iz doin wrong!)

[Lythas]

developed a maj0r case of tittahs.

BEST DIAGNOSIS EVAR

[Rand_Shea]

Whoa whoa.. I'm not hurt. It's just kind of been done to death from a zillion different angles. IF you actually go through and read the thread from the start.

Emphasis for point. Obviously as Vyn stated, the entire thread was read. He wasn't around back when it was first made and decided to restart the conversation by adding into it.

It's either this or complaining about people making repeat threads. Make up your mind which one you want, folks, or start demanding your moderators lock/delete threads after they drop off the face of the front page and post a sticky declaring what kinds of threads no one is allowed to post anymore because they've been "done all ready".

WE NEED MORE MODERATION GUYS. START RAGING!

Also... for not being hurt or insulted, you sure made it seem like you were really angry about it. I don't recall your name being brought up as an example (currently, anyway... I haven't bothered to reread this whole thing) or criticized, so... if you don't like the thread, why post in it?

[Ellsbeth]

I remember (since my alt is on the first page of this thread) there being a HUGE fallout because I misunderstood them to be Yaoi fans. Not being a part of that fandom, I didn't know the difference.

As for thread necromancy, I don't think I have the same views I did when I wrote my posts here. I'd like to think that people grow and their opinions change. Necromancing a thread just rehashes old opinions. In this case it might have been better to just start a new thread and link to the old one.

Edit/Add: I re-read the thread (aww I miss Skafloc so much) and it really wasn't as bad as I remembered it to be.

[Rand_Shea]

I remember saying that some of their RP reminded me of some of the 'bishounen' type of animes out there and it was somehow construed that I was calling them anime fantards.

Sorry about that, I'll be sure to compare it to Anne Rice's vampire stories next time.

[Cessily]

I'm with Arokai with this one.People will RP whatever they want to RP, and for as long as it doesn't get shoved into your face I'm happy that they are having fun that way.

The more different kinds of RP there are, the more chances of people trying them out and learning about what they want/like or hate/dislike too.

If you have a comunity full of omg loyal soldiers, it gets lame. If you have a comunity full of yay soap opera stuff it gets lame in the same way. Diversity is never a bad thing, for as long as people can be respectful.

If you don't like someone's RP, just don't RP with them. But bashing other's people RP can hurt their RP as much as it will hurt yours.

[Irithel]

developed a maj0r case of tittahs.


I thought they were more like an A-sized case of titties, not so much major.

:P
(It was a good diagnosis though, I laughed.)

And holy shit, it smells like thread necromancy.

[Kained]

I see nothing wrong with it.

[Yatokth]

Certainly diversity is needed for a healthy community, but diversity doesn't mean bad writing.

I'm not pointing fingers (in fact I haven't read a whole lot of bad writing here, but then again I don't read at all a whole lot here) but just in general, there's ALOT of poorly written romantic RP, just like there's ALOT of poorly written novels (romantic or otherwise), and diversity isn't an excuse to have a terrible character/storyline.

That goes for warlike characters too.

It's just that the bad romance RPers tend to be louder.

[The_Golden_Wolf]

I rock RP romance. /gangsign

[Keraph]

Yat's just hurt because his RP romance with Keraph ended on a bitter note.

WHEN IN-CHARACTER FEELINGS SPILL OUT INTO OOC IT JUST GETS WIERD BRO

[Raziel]

and to think, I thought Keraph was genuine when he was all grindin' that bronze faction in Silithus.

[Keraph]

THAT WAS FALLACY GODDAMIT STOP CONFUSING THE TWO OF US

[Raziel]

NO YOU'RE THE SAME GUY

[Keraph]

NO I'M THE RACIST ONE, HE'S THE....TIME TRAVELY ONE....?

[Gorvena]

I remember saying that some of their RP reminded me of some of the 'bishounen' type of animes out there and it was somehow construed that I was calling them anime fantards.

Sorry about that, I'll be sure to compare it to Anne Rice's vampire stories next time.
I lol'd true story.

[Lisbet]

Alright - was going to let this stay open for people who might have liked to continue the conversation -- but it looks like the conversation is over.

If you have any farther questions or concerns I'm sure the lovely male blood elf playing ladies would be more then happy to accept polite questions via pms :)