All the raiding hate combined in one post...

[Sanrin]

Lotta people seem to bust on raiding cuz its cutting down on rp. And I take a lot of offense to this. Raiding is NOT the anti-rp. In fact, i find it to be one of the most engaging in character things you can ever do. Every single quest in this entire game leads up to "end-game" and while its sad that you need 40 people that are moderately skilled and well equipped to see them...if you have the opprotunity to see em its amazing. Personally, i hate rp'ing someone who doesnt look AND act the part. Doing the dps, healing, and LOOKING like a Paladin are all important to me, and so I gotta go in these places.

And its exciting seeing progress. Its not a matter of "yawn, auto attack, yawn". We're killing creatures that're supposed to be a challange in under 5 minutes. You're moving from place to place with smooth efficency, its nice. If people cant balance rp and pve, thats their own issue honestly, but dont blame it on lootwhoring. I set up one major raid on a weekend, and two during the week for (at maximum) two hours. Everything else I leave up to our officers and members to find what they wanna do when they wanna do it. You dont have to set up 24/7 raiding times to make progress, often times that just exhausts people into disinterest.

Take the honor grind for example? It is infamous for people hitting rank 13 and quitting WoW from burnout. You dont need to do that in pve. I think personally that the RP community is taking a well earned break. There cant be tension in every day, and even heroes need a break. Its summer, and on top of that our community has finally hit the point where we can directly interact with the history of this world.

Let em enjoy it.

[Alucian]

This might get me in trouble...but here goes.

I, personally, have nothing against raiding.

THERE, I SAID IT! I am forever shamed. :(

But seriously. I've seen the ugly underbelly of a raiding guild. I just left my old one and helped start a new one. Instances and raiding are NOT only about loot. It's the natural progression of the game, in my eyes.

From level 1-60, you have a primary goal: leveling. Gotta get that next level. Gotta quest. Gotta hide from Undeadrogue6445449524101.

Once you hit 60, what's next? Sitting around RPing all day can be great fun, but only for so long. You start to wonder why you're paying $15 a month for a pretty IRC.

Raiding is the next logical progression. You go from leveling -> to -> gearing. You want to complete your tier sets. You want to down those ridiculous bosses. You wanna be responsible for Onyxia and Nefarion's heads swinging from the arches of Stormwind (or skewered for all of Orgrimmar to see).

Yes, raiding takes a long time. It causes a lot of drama. But with the proper mindset, any raiding guild can remain good...it's only when the leaders allow the focus to be taken from progress to lewtz that raiding guilds go bad.

It all comes down to a matter of whether you want to RP. The guildmaster of Just Pro comes and hangs out with the Swordwaltzers in the taverns sometimes. If he can, anybody can.

All that being said, Swordwaltzers will never raid anything higher than a 20-man, and even then it'll just be for kicks. However, if others want to raid and still retain the colors of the guild, then we let them. Personally, I look forward to raiding with Alucian.

I mean, RP is fun...but which sounds better, RP-wise?

"I downed 60 flagons of Darkmoon Reserve tonight while fending off the latest influx of Night Elf strippers in Stormwind Trade District."

"I slayed one of the dreaded elemental lieutenants...and still had time to slay the scourge of Stormwind, Deathwing's daughter herself."

[Danyxandra]

I disagree that raiding is anti-RP. True, I see less and less RP on every server that gets their major population to end-game, but that is not the fault of end-game so much as it is the mind-set of those participating.

The Grim raids, in character. It's not that difficult. You don't have to use long flowery phrases that get in the way of being efficient. It's a shame that more guilds don't follow this ideal.

My beef with raids and the reason I do not do end-game has absolutely nothing to do with being down on raiding, nor do I look down on anyone that participates in it. People are paying to play, they should get every bang for their buck they can and if that's what turns them on, they should whole-heartedly attend.

I, personally do not do end-game because I am too impatient and too hyper-active. Seriously, I cannot physically sit at my desk that long. To do so makes me physically agitated to the point of turning into a raging bitch and I don'lt like myself that way so I just don't do it.

No hate here from me for end-game, I just hate me when I participate in it. Makes me physically and mentally uncomfortable. End game does not have to be the end of RP if people just stay IC while doing it.

End game does not kill RP. Apathy does. When server populations get to End-Game and the RP starts to die, but it's not the end-game that does it. It's the players that get apathetic. It's the players that start bickering. It's the players that get their drama-on.