WoW RP < Other Games RP?

[Sanrin]

I had a discussion the other day with people from my pvp server about why they hate rpers. We have a lot of decent conversations since i make it pretty know where im from and what I enjoy, and they cant really talk shit to me since I can pvp and pve with the best of em, so when I asked em why they hate rp so much I got an answer I wasnt expecting...

Because it has nothing to do with WoW. I got ready to fight it, then I realized I couldnt. Its true, and its something I've never really noticed before. Now this isnt a 'i hate rp' thread or a 'ur rp sux' thread, but rather something different...I noticed a lot of games that they said had much better stories or rpers (EQ, DaoC, etc) all have the same theme of there being no real underlying story. Sure there were events that shaped the world, fights that happened, gods that exist, races and towns that hated each other...but their characters were never told by the game that they were badass. Communities ran themselves a bit more, player housing added to the feel of being a PART of the world rather then a part of the worlds story...and those two things are really different.

Take Lovely as an example, since the character has been around forever. First off all of her accomplishments in any instance are already credited to whatever faction that instance was a part of. If you kill a god, you didnt kill it but rather the Cenarion Circle did. You may of BEEN there, but you (according to lore) didnt play a part. Lovely is classified as an adventurer, and its not until recently that the game really started showing respect to that type. Look at the new daily quests, or even the Shattered Sun Offensive, as prime examples of groups that actually seem to not only care about the player but understand that you (the player) are the one going in and making a difference. Thats 100% different from the 'you happened to be around/in the way' feeling that prior blizz quests/instance launches have shown...AQ just murdered everyone in every zone for fun and Naxx had you playing a member of the Argent Dawn.

A sensitive subject for a lot of them was pvp titles...something they felt they earned and had the right to lord over everyone else. Its a bit wierd, but one of the types of rp guilds they said they hated the most were the ones pretending to be part of the Alliance/Horde military. Why? Because 99% of the time those players couldnt pvp, so they shouldnt pretend to. Just the same as its unreasonable for them to say 'you're not allowed to use your imagination' is it unreasonable for us to say 'we're using our imagination to be what you are!' Im unsure. But their gripes definitely made a lot more sense. When I explained to them the difference between the Blades of Lordaeron and the Konkron Vanguard(sp) it was pretty clear which one offended them more, though admittedly theres not much we can do about it.

But there are things Blizz can! I think this new form of 'first person questing' is good. This entire game has placed your character as the hero, but taking a backseat from that is even better. WoW isnt a first person MMO, it should stop pretending to be one and remote the .hack syndrome, and in the end I really do agree with these elitist pvp rp haters...this games RP community would thrive so much more if they took a step back and started making things that the players could really place their mark with. Titles and different colored hairstyles are a start, but is player housing that hard to do? Or armor coloring? Granted all of this only goes to a point, for example there was a lot more signifigance to someone who was exalted with AV back before it got patched to hell as opposed to today...and in making reputation grinds easier some of the individuality is thus erased...and it can be argued with that nerf to grinding also comes a big ol kidney shot to our pride. Which a lot of us, myself particularly, have too much of when it comes to this game.

[Alphaeus]

I think they could easily do guild halls and player housing...

Just... an instance portal to leads to the guild's hall, which can only be accessed by people in said guild (much like instances for parties, raids for raids, etc)... and player housing? Hell, they could just do a few random instanced houses in main cities, just like instances, only... houses. And the Rpers could thrive with that, even without being able to customize it. They could get away with making very few Small things, which would ad a lot to the RPability of this game.

[Fynne]

Im stupid and my hair is too.

[Sanrin]

Look you can point out my mistakes all you want but i just got off of work and had the idea in my head! So here is what you get for attempting to derail this.

edit- I added !

[Fynne]

So much hate.

[Nadea]

I would reaaaally love to see guild halls implemented, myself. I don't imagine it would be too difficult to do, if its instanced.

The Ruins of Lordearon has a perfect spot for it too, across from the hall with the silvermoon transport.

Im sure the other cities could come up with something, but that one comes to mind first- just stick a portal there, and have the areas saved to you via an ID, only saved by guild, rather than Raid IDs.

[opalexian]

there are about 2958902858 different empty buildings in just about every city, so about 2958902858 different places to put player housing and guild halls. They are just not into catering to stories/RPers and that's pretty lame. : /

[Lovely]

I would love player housing.

Back when I was Alliance, my house was the little two story apartment behind the Stormwind Auction house....

UNTIL....someone else walked in and said it was theirs.

There were tons of times I got into arguments with people (all IC which was fun) about who was the rightful owner of the house. Player housing would stop that problem.

Guild housing is another thing. Silvermoon University currently pretends the little library area building at the southern end of the Royal Exchange is their campus. But what if someone else is using that at the same time SMU does? What about griefers who want to jump around spamming emotes during a guild meeting?

Guild and player housing would stop that. But we don't see it because RP is the last thing on Blizzard's mind. Sure, we'll be able to dance differently in the next expansion, or change our hairstyle (ooooo hold me), but aside from those visual things, I haven't seen anything to help or promote RP.

And yeah....I agree with Sanrin. How many people went into TK and worked hard for weeks or months downing Kael'thas, only to have that storyline crapped on? Sure, having NPC's sing our praise is always fun, but I want a way for our characters to impact the world other than cybersex or RPing in a player run tavern that only opens its doors once.

[Aetheril]

I understand where you're coming from, in that we seem to have no real impact...but I think they're being a little cruel and generalizing that somehow that makes those games have better RPers. We have plenty of excellent writers and RPers here, it's just our hands are tied by what's capable in-game.

And I figure they'd be quick to judge something like that, considering they don't frequent TNG. The subplots that go on here simply cannot be expressed in the game world and made clear to people who aren't members at the TNG. But I hate being told that my RP is somehow inferior because I don't play a game that's more of a "sandbox". Ouch.

On that note, player and guild housing would be awesome. I want the freedom to express my RP.

But what's the logic these people are using here? That because you don't have the capability to express your contributions to the plot in a concrete manner in the game itself, we WoW RPer-haters are going to crap on you more? What the hell. Way to be constructive, guys. Way to dig us an even deeper hole.

As it stands, the only way to express ourselves in an RP way is to create guilds and act in character.

I wonder if they should stop hating on WoW-RP and instead hate on Blizzard for not accomodating it more. They evidently have some appreciation for the RP in other games.

[Lovely]

I wasn't meaning anything bad, and I don't condone people putting down RP or WoW RP. I love RP. I just wish we had more perks. :)

[Aetheril]

Sorry, I should have been more clear...I was talking about the OP. It just kind of steams me that people would judge the RP community not based on the writing skills of the RPers themselves, but simply because they don't have the tools to express themselves further.

And on that note, I'd kill for more perks! give me guild houses, player housing al'a SWG...or better yet, have us pay rent to use a particular building in a city. That way it's not just an instanced generic building, but people can walk up and see your guild emblem proudly flapping on a banner. And you'd need a key to enter, I suppose.

There's probably so many holes in that pipe dream. But eh, we can only hope forlornly for anything to benefit RPers.

But please, more customizability doesn't affect my writing skills. If they want to put down WoW RP for that, screw them. We'll still be here.

[Sanrin]

Oh yes, the OP wasnt to say that you're all bad writers or doing a bad job...just saying thats how they felt, and I thought that it was an interesting perspective as opposed to 'rp is gay'. We're all very creative people, great at writing/art on various levels, but I think it seeing WoW as more of a sandbox that we play in rather then a lego world we help build up. What that mean is that WoW seperates players from their storyline pretty well, players are more 'just visiting' then anything else.

I agree with that in some cases, and disagree with it in others...despite how cool it may or may not be Caverns of Time is a great example of being a visitor while daily quests are an example of being a part of the cause. Blizz has built up a lot of great characters and a LOT of awesome storylines...that have no room for us! Little is left for us to wonder and imagine or explore without very established characters beating us to the punch...they're not saying you're a shitty writer, they're saying they dont want to be a part of a world thats almost predetermined. Does your characters story thusfar have anything to do with major events in game aside from 'im there' or 'i was born during'? Its more or less impossible for us to say yes without going against what blizz is doing, instances and instanced events play a role in that. We've had a lot of threads of 'how do players handle instances?' before, I think this takes a part in this. Other games world events arent seperated, they're fought for. This isnt a thread about how your rp sucks (unless you're Fhenrir in which case it DOES) but rather this is a thread about what could Blizz do to make RP better? Opening the sandbox up a little bit persay.

I dont completely agree with what these guys are saying, I think a lot of great work can be done with what we've been given...but they do make a lot of good points. Instances is something we'll never be able to change, but our role can make more of an impact. Kael screaming bloody revenge at us is a start, but it shouldnt be the end of it before we go back into the next expansions version of Shattered Halls. More Dire Maul less TK.

[Lovely]

I want Heroic Deadmines.

[Sanrin]

Heroics were a good idea too, felt more like what the instance shoulda been rather then was.

[Rand_Shea]

Extra things in a game don't determine the quality of RP or the immersion in it... That's all up to the player who wants to do it.

Player housing would be nice as well as guild halls, but just because some other game has it doesn't make it better.

[Swerto]

I miss player cities, houses, and guild halls from Star Wars Galaxies, we had entire CITIES with mayors and everything. I was the mayor of one city, a leader of another guild, and a high ranking officer in a pilots guild -le sigh- not to mention I joined another guild for a GUILD WAR which pwnt.

bad thing about player cities: OH EM GEE NOWHERE TO GO! OH EM GEE ALL THE FREE LAND IS TAKEN UP BY HOUSES! OMG NO MORE ROOM FOR NEW CITIES>>> WTF!

[Naheal]

One thing I feel fairly passionate about is actually changing the world itself to fit your own RP. I like what they're doing with SSO, and I hope to see more of it in the future, but, in reality, to say that you were the one who downed Hakkar or Illidan when it can be done multiple times by multiple people is a little much.

Take, for example, my RP with the Sunwell Blade. As far as the RP for that blade is concerned, it's made from power cells (the orbs of fire and light) that were from the towers around Quel'thalas. I liked that, so I went with it. I changed something about it though that you're unlikely to see anywhere else: the weapon has a damage enchant on it to give it a bright blue glow. I RP that as it being the power cells themselves helping the blade.

That blade is actually something that I'll use for my RP more often than not if I'm in a formal situation. No big deal. Just a weapon made from power cells from the towers around Quel'thalas. There were a bunch of them. Do I expect to see anyone else RP that as their weapon? No. Can it happen? Yes.

[Chikt]

Quel'Danas is a step in the right direction. I look at Magisters Terrace and think to myself, why can't EVERY instance have a little cutscene where your character is the focal point? That one cutscene actually made me feel, for the first time in this game, god damn, I'm actually making a difference. As small as it might be, it as such a cool little addition that it put killing Kael'thas to shame. There was no drama in that death, and I'd have so preferred it if there was a little event to follow it. Killing Kael should be a big goddamn deal, even if it's only you and your party that can see it being made a big deal of. But instead it's just "You've done nothing! BWAHAHAHAHA! I was just a loot pinata this whole time!"

But I completely agree. There's so much they could do with WoW to make the RP better, which is why I envy players of Everquest.

[Fhenrir]

(unless you're Fhenrir in which case it DOES)

no u


Also, in regards to the OP: While I pride myself in being a roleplayer, I also must take the side of what are seen as the "RP haters" in said post on the point of roleplayers pretending themselves into better situations than they are.

Countless times I've seen the level 37 Arch Druid, or the High Ranger General Commander Prince Elfington in full greens. Not to mention people who would fancy themselves a rank from the previous PvP system when they never got it (I'd kill to call myself General Fhenrir, but I never earned it. One short... qq).

People who have actually taken steps to earn themselves the prestige or gear they have through the actual ingame activities can feel as though they're being slighted or disrespected by a roleplayer who would happily give themselves the same appearance or title without putting the time into it.

It's a large part of why I don't consider myself Sue-ish or unreasonable to roleplay Fhenrir as a badass... because I took the time to earn it. :D

[Irithel]

I play Exalted. Thus with WoW, I don't mind RPing in a fandom where I don't get to do the incredibly epic shit all the time. >.> In fact, I'll gladly downplay my character's power level even though he's creeping closer to 70. He's just a rogue and I'm fine with him not being the one to kill Kael'Thas or whatever.

[Chikt]

I never quite understood the reason behind why people would play a character from the word go as the most powerful they were going to get. It gives a character longevity if they're learning to be better still.

Like Dio. He went from a darn lucky Shamanoob you manages to get an HK thanks to the timely intervention of the Ratchet guards and the stupidity of a Human Paladin. To getting a powerful totem he had absolutely no control over and that-quite literally-blew up in his face on several occasions. To becoming an elementalist. To becoming the klothkau.To ruining the lives of several friends. To becoming a Private Investigator. To becoming a Commander (since I had done a crapload of PvP and earned the armor), to becoming a damn lucky Spirit Walkernoob who manages to get a HK thanks to the timely intervention of a guildy. And the cycle goes on!

I expect by the time he hits level 80, he'll have gained a new trinket of some power, become an Elemental shaman, become a Resto shaman, ruin the lives of several friends, get some big new important job and then quit it, get some awesome new military title that he'll never want to be called by, to becomming a noob at something new and different!

It's growing and learning that makes a character. Not saying you've grown and learned all that there is.

[Grev]

Any time you're mixing roleplaying with gameplay there has to be some given leeway, but every situation is different. Obviously naming yourself a High Warlord of the Horde is overdoing it when you haven't achieved the rank, but also proclaiming your guild is responsible for Illidan's death when countless others have done the same thing is just as bad.

This isn't a one way street. Just because you've accomplished something in-game doesn't mean you should incorporate it into your roleplaying, just like you shouldn't incorporate some things in your roleplaying when you haven't accomplished them in-game.

I guess my point is use your own discretion about what's credible and what's not.

Player housing is a good idea, but I'd much rather see battlegrounds that focused more on guild wars. I guess what I want to see is a 40v40 arena, but on a map that is the size of Alterac Valley. The hell with the objectives, the last guild standing wins. Siege weapons included, of course.

I just want to man a meat wagon. (http://www.wowwiki.com/Meat_wagon)

[Nicoleta]

I don't see how guild halls and player housing makes roleplaying any better. If anything, it just insulates roleplayers from the rest of the game. I enjoy it when people walk into Silvermoon University guild meetings in "the Quad" just south of the Royal Exchange. Dewce claimed a hut next to the battlemasters in Orgrimmar, and we'd have great fun throwing wandering intruders out between Alterac Valley matches ("Hey, mon! Get the hell away from dat hookah!").

[Jobolg]

This is a very common argument, huh? It's the ole' game mechanics argument which likes to pop back up in different disguises now and again. As has been said, ya can't take it too seriously. You have to give some leeway.

Bosses have been defeated by tons of people. Physics don't apply. Skill applies in a very different sense.. a hunter, for example, can never get a head shot in WoW no matter how he or she tries. And with the way WoW works, just because you worked for something really in NO WAY means you are stronger than someone who didn't.. It means you are wearing -equipment- which is stronger. If you go by game mechanics, your character is almost precisely the same strength (give or take a few stat points based on race which in the end make no difference) as every other character of your class. Someone absolutely fresh to level 70 is 100&#37; your equal in power if you fought without all the fancy magic equipment.

There's no accounting for skill, of course. Some people, like myself, just aren't that good at the game.

...what was this topic about again?

[Aetheril]

About being badass, too...I feel no need to be badass. I like my character the way he is. Dio has made an excellent point on that: it gives me so much more material to work with and develop...and the character stays interesting longer.

I think anyone who's read my posts can agree that Aeth is a wuss. He will be a wuss for some time until I decide he's no longer a wuss.

And Swerto's pally alt kicked the shit out of him. Multiple times.

Yes. Truly badass, indeed. Of course I don't have much of an effect on the game world. It's not in the cards for my weakling character, not yet. We're all working out of sub-plots here...yes, they are not part of the larger plot...but after all, isn't the point that we, the roleplaying community, enjoy what we've created?

Am I trying to impress the non-RPers, or just enjoy my time here with our little RP community, however insular it may be at times?

Hopefully I've been able to entertain a few people along the way.

[Yichimet]

Eh, play the fucking game how you wanna play it.

[Qabian]

<3 Yichi.

Until Blizz starts actually removing bosses from the game, they're never technically dead. You beat them to a bloody pulp, craft sections of their corpse that can be regrown into some interesting beatsticks/shoulderpads, and some dumbass Spirit Healer pats them on the head and puts them back where they were. It's a conspiracy to keep the economy going.

I don't mind RPing getting in a fireball match with Kael while he was extra-drunk on manasauce the other day and subsequently referring to my elite powers exercised in laying him out flat. But his "defeat" is not the removal of his existence. The world is ludicrously static.

One of these days, our characters are going to realize the futility of repeated meaningless deaths. Azeroth is hell.

Guild halls wouldn't change that.

[Ninorra]

Vilmah explains multiple killings as.. "They just won't DIE! I don't get it!"

Ninorra is more like, "They are so undeserving of death's blessing, that they must suffer through the pain of it all instead."

[Tillna]

All my Chars think that Defias?

Their boat is a Brothel.

Most of the Bosses have underlings who could res them.

YOu can;t kill elementals, they just come back, after the regain enough strength to return.

As for other bosses, they die, and then they are reborn by powers of something. Be it the Lich king for UD scourge guys or Kael'thas for TK...whatever. SOme one is out there doing a lot of ressing.

I imagine some poor orc doing it

[Okhu]

It was me, I'm not gonna lie.

FOR GREAT JUSTICE!!..

[Daedraug]

Shadowbane did a really good job explaining multiple lives via the lore, basically linking every character's soul to these big trees in player cities and main cities (you set it like a hearth) and saying that for all intents and purposes, the afterworld had boarded up the windows and locked the doors. Since there was nowhere else for you to go, you came back to your body. No one had actually -died- in a long time via the game's lore.

When it really comes down to it, Blizzard tends to not hear the complaints of rp players because there's too much money coming out of their friggin ears from all the more traditional, mainstream player types.

[swiftbleid]

no u


Also, in regards to the OP: While I pride myself in being a roleplayer, I also must take the side of what are seen as the "RP haters" in said post on the point of roleplayers pretending themselves into better situations than they are.

Countless times I've seen the level 37 Arch Druid, or the High Ranger General Commander Prince Elfington in full greens. Not to mention people who would fancy themselves a rank from the previous PvP system when they never got it (I'd kill to call myself General Fhenrir, but I never earned it. One short... qq).

People who have actually taken steps to earn themselves the prestige or gear they have through the actual ingame activities can feel as though they're being slighted or disrespected by a roleplayer who would happily give themselves the same appearance or title without putting the time into it.

It's a large part of why I don't consider myself Sue-ish or unreasonable to roleplay Fhenrir as a badass... because I took the time to earn it. :D

Fhen, completely agreed here.
Humilty, it seems, is all too rare in the RP community.
Then again, there are those who level a character to 17, stand in Silvermoon and offer to serve people food... I just don't get that.
A little bit of Epic is important, just don't over do it.

[Yatokth]

I see the gripe here, but once again, it's not really affecting them, now is it? So why should they hate it?

But to respond to the gripe in kind -anyway-, I'd like to say that as previous posters have, that this is just the game mechanics / RP debate that has been going on since the dawn of the world... of warcraft.

And also as previous posters have said, you can only get so much done, obviously you can't claim to have "killed staghelm" in darnassus (yes I used that example on purpose lol) because he looks fine to me. Plus he's a faction leader. It's like RPing in a Star Wars setting, which I used to do. While it's great to link yourself to the existing storyline and lore, what's BETTER is to create your own storylines, set IN the world and maybe have some driving force FROM the lore of the world, but primarily ABOUT you and your compatriots' characters; that way you can kill off whoever you want and have as many epic battles as you want.

What about character vendettas against Arthas/Scourge/Kael'thas/etc? Shouldn't they fulfill them? Well, this is one reason I hate those kind of hate-the-major-character-from-lore cliche. (the other is because it's just that -- cliche) How can you say "oh i got my revenge, killed kael'thas k" when I can zone into MgT and look at him right there. Plus he's a major lore character -- what if blizz wants him to do something else, then you're like "DUUUUUUUH HOW'D HE SURVIVE". Yat has a vendetta against the League of Arathor, he thinks they're scum infesting his former homeland, but I can't really go and kill Danath Trollbane, because he'll pop right back up. Will I give him a defeat sometime? Possibly. But as unfortunate as it is, the only play you ever get to change major characters with is very vague and completely Blizz-driven.

Thus, as I said, it's better to make storylines with other RPers so you can have much more clarity.

As for the whole "RPers being more awesome than they really are", I agree, I don't think there should be too much assertion of your own abilities. Yat IS a badass, he's been fighting for a long time, I don't think it's wrong to RP someone who is good and knows it, but it's not like I just gloss over my defeats. As badass as Yat is, he knows he has weaknesses, and when he loses (trust me, happens all the time), it's because he slipped up, or there was nothing he could do about it, so he works harder to ensure it doesn't happen again -- And moves on.

Now I have an old PvP rank (I did link it to my RP, I was a Senior Sergeant way back in the armies of Arathor), I'm in mostly epics, and I have a badass sword, so I can say that I'm good at fighting the alliance and deserve to co-lead a warband that does so, because I DO fight the alliance, plenty, and I'm good at it too.

But yeah, I think as long as you don't overstep the bounds of encroaching on lore and overbuffing your character, you've got some gewd RP going there.

[Alana]

i am unclear on why those are reasons to "hate" RPers. you must not explained it clearly or if you did, they are just ass hats because those are pretty lame reasons. that's like me hating PVPers who just ground out BGs for hours on end to get their PVP title - which i think is the case since my pitiful Sgt self kicked the crap out of many so-called 'officers' one on one.

nor do i agree with i just happened to be there or i was a "member" of.. whatever faction. and if so, who cares, my character was more than just 'there' she was part of the team that got it done.

it's just a silly discussion. it's a video game above all else, the RP can't be perfect, nor will it ever. no matter how many houses, guild halls, etc you add. not that it wouldn't be cool.

[Sanrin]

To address the post above me, they dont have RPers they just hate the medium offered for them to rp in. When asked as to why they give rpers a hard time about it, a 'because we can' reason was thrown up...which although more or less unacceptable its goes along the same lines of 'the purpose of a taunt is to agitate the opponent'. That should answer both posts above me! : D

I noticed the 'guild hall' thing popping up a lot, and I think it'd make a huge difference. Even non-rper's love to rp. Why else do they collect offsets, armor to look cool, etc? If offered the chance to make their own home and dress it to reflect them they'd take it, and that alone would add more depth to the world. Guild Halls arent just a 'meeting place', generally they have more purpose. A place of trade, crafting, a place to store loot/items, in WAR's case a place to plan in secret against the other faction. I think we stand a lot to gain with the creation of guild halls, and even more importantly it would really bring the non-rpers into the community BY FORCE if we made player housing. Again, as purly a status concept you know they would tack onto it.


Dae- Completely agree with you! but that doesnt mean we shouldnt try, I still send my emails weekly to blizz bout things Id love to see implemented in game.

As far as 'death in game' is concerned theres already a thread for that. Im really interested in saying what YOU guys would like to have implemented, and then send that information to people who've never rp'd before and see if it'd get them interested. I think one thing Blizzard needs more of is posts that gather together all the information into one spot so they can see what'd be a good idea vs a boring one, and I'm looking to see if WOTLK is going to open up more rp tools to us then lolnewzone.

I understand that imagination is part of it all, but if I wanted to JUST rp chat all day Id open up AOL instant messenger. Its not so hard to program a chair that everyone can sit in without looking like a dumb shit. Or a tavern with clickable food? These tiny things make the experience BETTER and despite if we're looking at things on a grand scale (player housing) or small battles (player last names) it'd be good to have everyone in the WoW community rp-pvp-pve all together.

[Rand_Shea]

I agree with Alana on those excuses being rather... well... crappy. Someone saying that all RPers are elitist pricks is like someone else saying the same thing about people who only PvP. Shoving around some made up title in everyone's face for creative purposes is no different than shoving around a title in other people's faces reflecting how many kills you've gotten over your time playing the game.

I make the comparison because someone's ambition to make themselves a 'Magister' or 'Arch Druid' at level 10 is no different than someone going into tons of BGs randomly attacking people and getting that other player's HK applied to them. A person who has only 100 kills could be just as good or better than someone with 50,000. It all depends on skill and how that person earned that title.

In essence, as much as I respect someone who earned their PvP titles, I still take it with a grain of salt on whether or not any one of them deserved them. There's a way to rip off any system, and the PvP titles one is no different. The same applies to self appointed RP titles, and just the way I'd judge someone based on seeing their actual PvP performance, I'd judge an RP character's title based on whether or not they were a good RPer or some lame godmoder.

But that's just my opinion on the matter.

[Qabian]

*sigh* There are level 10 Magisters. Well, 13 anyway. It's a title. Like Deathguard.

I used it for Q at about level 20. What I took it to mean was someone who had finished his basic education (although still had a lot to learn) and was now at a point where he swore to use what he had learned to help Silvermoon and had the ability to teach someone something, even if it was Rank 1 Fireball, or that one of the old arcane sanctums was up and functioning.

Deathguard Kel. Level 7. "He has protected us from gnolls for sometime." You can do that at level 7. At level 13, you can help study the Sanctum of the Moon. Some noob wants to call themselves a Deathguard? Makes sense to me. Crush those gnolls.

/self defense

But not all titles are so cheap. There are no level 10 High Warlords. There are no level 10 Grand Magisters. There are no level 10 Arch Druids. Most people claiming high-end/unique titles are probably Sue-ing, it's true. Unless you're Fhen. Then your infamy has earned it.

[Naheal]

"Magister" is more of a term or title that's used to reference a mage or a warlock in Sin'dorei society. You're really not setting any sort of baseline ability by taking a title like that.

[Rand_Shea]

Magister also isn't unique to WoW and has been frequently used as a term in many fantasy outlets to describe a person with 1) a lot of magical power, and/or 2) someone in charge of something, usually pertaining to government.

I don't fault anyone for using it when their character is low level. You could easily just say that your character was severely injured, lost their magical ability, and has to spend a lot of time recovering and regaining their use of it. Head injuries and traumatic events cause people in the real world to lose their memories, go blind, catatonic, among a myriad of other things. Someone who say... was in a car accident and their head got whacked by something could forget how to ride a bike, whereas there's also a documented case of a woman who went (I think temporarily) blind a short time after she witnessed her then husband molesting or raping her daughter.

It's how you pull it off that's the key thing...

And no, there aren't many (if any) 70's with PvP titles, but again, kills can be farmed and accumulated the same way primals can, especially in a BG setting. Some people actually worked for and earned that title, whereas there's more than likely a few that didn't. Doesn't matter if you did the killing blow or most of the damage on someone in a BG... Once you do any damage to another player and they die before you do, you get the HK. If you don't do jack to that player and someone else in your team does, you get the HK. Again, I'm not saying PvP titles aren't worthy of respect, but if someone like Heidenrech only had 100 kills on his belt, I'd still consider him better than the guy who spent thousands of hours in AV waiting for Iceblood to become a clusterfuck and plopping down an AoE before hiding behind a tree.

Talent is all that matters, whether it's with roleplaying, or 'killing' someone else's set of skinned polygons.

[Tillna]

I use my own RP titles.

Frieya has commander, as she has the badge to prove it.

Also, this is getting very serious.

Also, Sea turtles. And dolphins,

[Rand_Shea]

Lions, and tigers, and bears! Oh my!

[Juhnaa]

*shrug*

There's no problem with having major-hate-towards a lore-character. How to act it out in your character's storyline? They defeated them. Didn't kill them, defeated them. Ergo your character's vengeance has been completed and the next branch of their storyline can evolve.

Also, in regards to strength, a warrior will always be stronger than a mage. Can that mage wield a battle-axe and 100 pounds of plate armor? No? Then he's weaker. However, that mage will run intellectual circles around that warrior without breaking a sweat.

Take WoW RP with a grain of salt and have fun. The moment someone elses' RP gets under your skin because that's not how it should be done and it's pointless is the moment ya need to step back and go frolic in sunshine *laugh*